The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: hellbilly on October 23, 2011, 02:02:05 AM
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The best offense is to keep your adversary on the defense at all times. On this BBS, I've been kept on the defensive end of this equation for years. It must be jolly fun for the guys who keep doing it, but I'm seeing it more as immature and simply lame. Over these years I've invited them to have a real discussion about this shit, and they won't. I think it'd be meaningless anyway as the most in-depth and valuable conversations I've ever had about race and racism were with people from other races. I'm a white guy just like the guys who keep the accusations flowing. I think the difference may be that I have no white guilt, tons of common sense, and I'm able to spread criticism (and praise) over any and all groups of people.
Keeping it very short so there is no confusion.
Race:
a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock
Some people say "race" is a social construct. I don't claim to know.
I don't think it matters as most people tend to be completely willing to self-identify with racial groups. Those options on health forms, job applications, etc. - most people use them. It's an important part of the census. It's used as leverage in political strategies. So if "race" doesn't exist, all the side effects of it's presumed existence do.
In the context of all the accusations about me: I don't give a shit about race, but I'm positively interested in societies and culture. Fixated? No, but it's a major source of interest and has been since I can remember. I find failures just as noteworthy as accomplishments and I'm not shy about discussing either.
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Racism:
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
Come with me to any Wal Mart or restaurant with a buffet and I can show you why the idea of racial superiority is stupid. I consider culture to trump race. Example? How about Chinese culture and their success with math. They take a different approach to mathematics and they are diligent in studying. And yes, I am speaking collectively. It's appropriate.
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The root of the accusations are that I don't like black people. This isn't so. Instead of saying what most white people say .."Why! Well.. I have friends that are black!!" - I won't. Not because I don't but because that doesn't mean shit. I have very few friends that are black. Or Vietnamese. Or Serbian. Or Maori. Or whatever. So really, what the fuck does that have to do with anything?
So, to finalize: How does Hellbilly feel about black folks? In general, I feel neutral. Exactly the same way I feel about whites. Or those Serbians that I mentioned above. I don't know "black folks". Unlike some, I don't fawn over them, I don't feel a need to protect them or defend them. I don't feel that way about whites either. Or the Vietnamese I mentioned above.
Am I supposed to feel a certain way about blacks? Apparently so the way things have here. Maybe someone can tell me what the "right" way to feel about blacks is.
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Is it acceptable to use the word "blacks" here?
Possible thin ice for you. :P
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Seriously, do I need to post EvoGen's videos here refuting this race realism crap?
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Seriously, do I need to post EvoGen's videos here refuting this race realism crap?
Since I know nothing about them, I'd be obliged if ya did.
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57 views on this topic.
1,000 accusations that I'm a racist.
1 posts on topic that's willing to share at least some info.
Sounds like most of the people here who are calling me out as a bigot, racist and whatnot would rather keep making accusations than take the opportunity to back up those claims. Meanwhile, those lurking on the sidelines go without the extra entertainment (and are probably too scared to make a comment that might back me up).
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I'll back you up bud. Your explanation makes sense to me. This conflict is getting old. We're cool....
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57 views on this topic.
1,000 accusations that I'm a racist.
1 posts on topic that's willing to share at least some info.
Sounds like most of the people here who are calling me out as a bigot, racist and whatnot would rather keep making accusations than take the opportunity to back up those claims. Meanwhile, those lurking on the sidelines go without the extra entertainment (and are probably too scared to make a comment that might back me up).
Do you dream of it?
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Do you dream of it?
My favorite game - Choose your favorite answer!
1. Neat. What movie is that from?
2. Oh yes Professor Brasky! Not dreams, but... nightmares because of this besmirching of my character!
3. Thanks for an example of how the issue keeps getting dragged out cause people would rather blather out accusations, or detract from the issue to switch the focus as opposed to talking about their concerns.
4. Open up a little, Butterfly.
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I'll back you up bud. Your explanation makes sense to me. This conflict is getting old. We're cool....
Thanks Fred. Yes, really, really old.
And to JohnnyCarson too, I think.
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The person cites his sources in the video description. :3
HeyRuka- Genetics vs. Eugenics, pt 1- Genetic and Taxanomic Basis for "Race" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaPNUBPVtwg#)
HeyRuka- Genetics vs Eugenics, pt. 2: Social Constructs and The Laws of Nature (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MGJl9iFt8#)
HeyRuka- Genetics vs Eugenics: "Racial IQ," Eugenics History, and Discrimination (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bJdEtjd0hQ#)
Racism vs. Evolution- Derived Characteristics, Pop. Gen., and Genetic Drift, pt 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIYT9nQUpoY#)
Racism vs. Evolution- More Pop. Gen., and Genetic Drift, pt. 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mG2DYT-KAs#)
Racism vs. Evolution- More Pop. Gen., Selective Sweeps, and Cognitive Alleles, pt 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d2iPjmUurU#)
Racism vs. Evolution- More Pop. Gen., MAOA, and Allelic Distribution: The End Game, pt 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cpTxQ3bluU#)
Someone Is Going to Bleed, Fringe... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ1FPShw7Qg#)
FringeElements- Thrombocytopenia and Dishonesty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDaY70Kzpho#)
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57 views on this topic.
1,000 accusations that I'm a racist.
1 posts on topic that's willing to share at least some info.
Sounds like most of the people here who are calling me out as a bigot, racist and whatnot would rather keep making accusations than take the opportunity to back up those claims. Meanwhile, those lurking on the sidelines go without the extra entertainment (and are probably too scared to make a comment that might back me up).
No problem, you'll find that the evogen videos actually do a damn good job summarizing the research misused justifying racism under the status of race realism from folks like HeyRuka, FringeElements (aka Ryan Faulk), Spawktalk, and etc. :3
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Watching these now. I'm strictly a hobbyist compared with these people (which is a refreshing notion considering the current on goings here).
Evo has great rebuttals. Incomplete in some cases, or kinda sketchy, but good. The girl is a little.. pouty? girly? tentative? -which is annoying. Probably not the best at presenting an argument to match Evo's.
Thanks.
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Here's an idea everyone:
http://youtu.be/kslHr7_9Zac (http://youtu.be/kslHr7_9Zac)
[youtube]kslHr7_9Zac[/youtube]
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I see that and'll raise ya this:
Already Gone - The Eagles.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaM3Fj6Elns#ws)
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Still watching the Evo vids. It's as bad as this place when Spawktalk pitches in to defend Ruka which prompts Evo to clarify... rinse, repeat.
Evo & Spawtalk are both intelligent.
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Do you dream of it?
My favorite game - Choose your favorite answer!
1. Neat. What movie is that from?
2. Oh yes Professor Brasky! Not dreams, but... nightmares because of this besmirching of my character!
3. Thanks for an example of how the issue keeps getting dragged out cause people would rather blather out accusations, or detract from the issue to switch the focus as opposed to talking about their concerns.
4. Open up a little, Butterfly.
This obfuscation qualifies as a "yes".
Next question:
Have you ever been physically harmed or directly intimidated by a "person of color". This includes any and all non-whites, including Asians and Pacific Islanders. Male or female. And remember, rape is violence.
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57 views on this topic.
1,000 accusations that I'm a racist.
1 posts on topic that's willing to share at least some info.
Sounds like most of the people here who are calling me out as a bigot, racist and whatnot would rather keep making accusations than take the opportunity to back up those claims. Meanwhile, those lurking on the sidelines go without the extra entertainment (and are probably too scared to make a comment that might back me up).
Do you dream of it?
No, I haven't dreamed of thread statistics or accusations, lurkers, etc.
That was not an attempt to obfuscate but rather provide an answer of the same quality as the question.
I will be using bland sentence structure to prevent confusion.
I have been in more stare-downs than actual fights and usually there is a bit of intimidation present in any physical altercation.
These stare downs have occurred with males of various colors and/or ethnicities. Including a Pacific Islander, surprisingly.
Other than normal bumps and bruises I have not been physically harmed as a result of these tussles. I have had close friends who were not as lucky as myself.
Intimidation during a one-on-one altercation has been an experience of mine indeed. I have found that the intimidation factor increases exponentially when the number of your adversaries greatly outnumber your allies. Assuming that you have allies.. and are not lost and alone in the heart of Anacostia, DC (a "woman of color", respected in the neighborhood, saved my ass).
Worthy of note: by far, all fights I've been in were with males, and most often white.
What was a white male like me doing going off on his own in Anacostia?
A better question would be "Why should it be of such concern for a white male to be in Anacostia alone?"
I was there to attend a dedication ceremony and to install a sculpture I had helped create that is exhibited in the Museum and center for African American history and culture.
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I imagine you are setting the stage for a climactic revelation of some sort. We can skip these boring stages of the production and get straight to the finish, as questions about intimidation do not directly address race and racism, which is the topic.
It is also curious you introduced the topic of rape specifically, as if it had somehow been present or mentioned in the thread previously. Perhaps this is a "breadcrumb" of sorts that has some pertinence to something you will mention in the future. It is not a matter of memory but instead common knowledge that rape is violent. Perhaps you wish to discuss rape statistics in the US and how that relates to racism? Or perhaps you have some experience with that subject you'd like to share.
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I'll talk about race with ya, but I'm not up for any more drama or lengthy posts.
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Your (strait) jacket is waiting in your room..
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Your (strait) jacket is waiting in your room..
Eh?
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This is crucial viewing. A very serious Ethnographic study. Drop what you're doing and learn your brain for about 45 minutes.
How Black People See White Culture - a must see! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e5mivkXmsc#)
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So let me get this straight mutherfucker. You want to discuss racism in a open way using words that only some races have permission to use being honest of groups of dipshits doing scarey shit and ganging up on people who don't match them but you have to understand lonely white guy getting your ass kicked you are the racist. I'll tell you that in my youth I saw a gang of Mormons playing basketball as I watched and they squared up shoulder to shoulder and asked me if I wanted to join them. I ...am using that new American language I learned on the onion.
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So let me get this straight mutherfucker. You want to discuss racism in a open way using words that only some races have permission to use being honest of groups of dipshits doing scarey shit and ganging up on people who don't match them but you have to understand lonely white guy getting your ass kicked you are the racist. I'll tell you that in my youth I saw a gang of Mormons playing basketball as I watched and they squared up shoulder to shoulder and asked me if I wanted to join them. I ...am using that new American language I learned on the onion.
Al, what are you saying?
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That was my attempt at "incomprehensible shouting" how did I do?
Guess I have kind of had it with calling out racists, especially when there isn't one in a practical sense. I really wanted to bring it up on that Detroit Blood kill thread. The fact that the sickening way the black community acted wasn't brought up because we are all afraid of looking racist is a problem. Let me put it this way. Kids of a certain race killing Innocent acquaintances to prove to some scum bag that they will blindly obey him is a problem. For everybody. And justifying it by saying some white biker gangs do the same thing, won't address the problem. I don't like the way we walk on eggshells whenever racism brings it ugly head up. I am not going to pretend it ain't there.
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Culturally race can play a role in society. But that is only cultural. There are some examples in health and biology that can makes races different and there are a lot of theories on why that is.
Personally though we are all pretty much the same. I don't see why it is an important topic for people to even discuss.
I feel most black people are in the situation they are in more so because of what government has done in the past and what government is doing now.
I understand where the OP is coming from but I don't get why it is such a big deal. There are a lot of reasons why most black people in inner cities are is terrible situations.
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I get you Al.
It doesn't matter where you grow up or how bad a slum you come from, you know when you're doing wrong (violence to another person) so environment is just a lame excuse for bad behavior.
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I get you Al.
It doesn't matter where you grow up or how bad a slum you come from, you know when you're doing wrong (violence to another person) so environment is just a lame excuse for bad behavior.
If you grew up on an island where everyone ran around with no clothes on, you would think that wearing clothes was pretty fucking weird.
Not to excuse murdering people, but its the same idea if you grow up around that shit from the day you are born. You become desensitized to it I'd imagine. At the same time though, I have no problem with peope like that running around and killing each other either. Just sucks when someone else gets caught in the crossfire, or in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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That's bullshit. you still know right from wrong.
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That's bullshit. you still know right from wrong.
Maybe, maybe not.
Just look at this country. We put up with all kinds of bullshit that we would NEVER put up with just 50 years ago. Its all about what you become used to. You become numbed, desensitized to it. Sure, deep down you might know its wrong, but you really dont care that much.
"Someone got shot? Pffft..... happens every day round here......... no biggie."
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not hearing about it - doing it.
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not hearing about it - doing it.
Same thing.
You follow your big brother around all day, looking up to him while he goes around talking to his friends how he did his first kill to get into the gang. You wanna be like him..... its all you know and have ever known. It happens alot.
Im in no way excusing it, or taking blame away from them for the way they see the world, or blaming society and all that bleeding heart bullshit. Im simply saying THATS HOW IT IS. You think they just woke up one day, and turned from being a perfectly functioning person, to suddenly being a sociopathic asshole who doesn't care about life or death?
I frankly dont give a fuck about those people....... not even a little bit. Just saying thats why they are the way they are.
They're animals.
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On second though Fred, I agree with you, they were just born that way. They came out of the womb as killers.
I was wrong.
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If u think i'm saying they were born that way, i'm not being clear. I'm saying they know its wrong and do it anyway. Rationalizing or whatever,np they know it ain' t right.
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If u think i'm saying they were born that way, i'm not being clear. I'm saying they know its wrong and do it anyway. Rationalizing or whatever,np they know it ain' t right.
How do you know what they know or dont know? Aint trying to be a smart ass about this either....... im serious.
Maybe they just have this attitude that everything is fair game.........."thats just the way things are around here..... part of the game...... welcome to the jungle baby....you're gonna die!!". Maybe they really think that way.
I would never presume to think I know what someone else is thinking unless I talked to them first.
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I think its a shared human quality with few exceptions around the world to know killing another person is wrong.
I don't think this means I know what they're thinking. I don't care what they're thinking really.
To my way of thinking, to just blame it on environment is excusing the behavior. There are plenty of people that grow up in that environment that don't use it as an excuse to kill people.
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To my way of thinking, to just blame it on environment is excusing the behavior. There are plenty of people that grow up in that environment that don't use it as an excuse to kill people.
Ok, fair enough.
So if its not genetics, race, random chance, or environment they grew up in....... what is it that causes them to be this way?
Gotta be a reason for it right?
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People can be desensitized to except doing evil things for their own ends. From a drug gang lackey to a soldier to a judge to politician.
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People can be desensitized to except doing evil things for their own ends. From a drug gang lackey to a soldier to a judge to politician.
I agreee and it is their environment that teaches them to be this way. They didn't just pop out of mommies cooch that way.
Having said that, and to go back to what Fred was saying, I am in no way excusing it at all. Environment is a strong factor, but not an excuse for behavior. They are still responsible for their own actions in all those cases. Its just, if youre looking for a reason they were influenced to be that way, you can usually point to their surroundings.
Do I think they desesrve a break for it? No, im just trying to get to the root cause for conversation sake.
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I agree that the environment is probably the main cause. Its also what allows them to get away with that behavior. Try that in a rural area and you're not going to last very long.
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Its also what allows them to get away with that behavior. Try that in a rural area and you're not going to last very long.
Yeah, thats how I feel about it. If a guy breaks into your house in the middle of the night, it doesn't matter to me what caused him to be in the situation to do it, environment or whatever it is. He's a dead man just the same.
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I agree that the environment is probably the main cause. Its also what allows them to get away with that behavior. Try that in a rural area and you're not going to last very long.
Maybe it is something to do with all the "commens" you get in urban areas. I think a lot bad people's main problem is a disrespect of other peoples property rights. Those sort of basic values probably start their foundation in early childhood.
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It's culture. Specifically thug culture, the real kind, and as far as it extends to dedicated wannabees.
I think that's what you guys mean by "environment" though, right?
And what Fred said makes it worse- "Its also what allows them to get away with that behavior." Crime does go under reported, sometimes not at all and witnesses don't snitch. Due to mistrust of cops is understandable, but the other reason that's commonly listed is "they have enough of "our" men in jail already".
There are too many drug offenders locked up for sure, but I've read that the under reporting also extends into rape, domestic violence and child abuse (even sexual). It's just more coddling.
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I grew up in a bigoted household. Both my parents came from rural Wisconsin, and had the racial beliefs common to most people growing up in the 1930s. Any person could be classified according to their background. Blacks were stupid, shiftless and lazy, Mexicans were violent and dishonest, Irish were drunks who fought a lot. Jews were all money-grubbers.
It’s a simple system, really, and has the advantage of not requiring you to think. As soon as you meet someone, you know all you need to about them! The only problem is, it’s universally wrong.
I was inoculated from the disease of racism when I noticed that my parents were seldom ever correct about anything. They had little education or world experience outside the small, isolated communities in which they grew up. Also, my first serious girlfriend in high school was black. Well, half black, anyway. The other half was Jewish. She was also the best student in school. I’ve always been attracted to the smart girls.
I’ve known and worked with many blacks over the years, and can’t recall a single one of them fitting any of the stereotypes held so dear to my folks. The same is true of all the other groups.
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The Military-Industrial Complex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjB1XiZAIqs#)
This is on topic hear him out.
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Aurini cracks me up. Not because what he's saying is funny, but his facial expressions and the fact that he looks like he could be Dr Evil's son. Most of it I agree with.
You should listen to his "Psychology V - The Borderline" vid. Interesting stuff. Guy must smoke a carton of smokes a day. He's an odd cat, but interesting to watch.
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You should listen to his "Psychology V - The Borderline" vid. Interesting stuff. Guy must smoke a carton of smokes a day. He's an odd cat, but interesting to watch.
I got the impression he smokes during his videos to relax him or have something to do with his hands, but maybe so.
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Yeah, you're prob right about that. Same with the glass of scotch. Just something to do while he's ranting.
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Hellybilly gets a bad rap...
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RE: New Black Panther Party (BKK, Black Koward Klan) Offers 10K Reward For Zimmerman's Capture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXn7Y9Mwr8o#)
Russ.. even when I disagree with him I still find his points interesting. Never heard of Aurini before but I like that vid.
Hellybilly gets a bad rap...
Depends on who ya ask. Glad you think so though.