Smuggled out footage and testimony of Gaza Flotilla raid.

[libertylover]

Israeli ambassador to the US Michael Oren said that his government refuses international investigation into the attack on the Freedom Flotilla in international waters.   Does anyone really think that Israel is going to actually investigate anything or are they going to whitewash and release torrents of propaganda?  Actually testimony and smuggled out footage.  Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlkj7gUl0wc&feature=related Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuODT3cPSGU&feature=related

IDF attempted to jam signals and they confiscated video equipment and footage.  If Israel had wanted to investigate the contents of the ship and had nothing to hide.  They could have done so in the daylight with all cameras free to document all the events.  

Testimony of Alex Hamilton on a small boat which was part of the flotilla.   Her testimony is compelling and totally contradicts Israel's propaganda.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWVSsI_mSzA

Testimony of Iranian born, Female American Lawyer Journalist who smuggled out extra footage of the flotilla raid.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUP5NftOjwo&feature=related

Last but not least Israeli's admit to doctoring some of their footage of the raid.  Video also contains British calls for independent investigation into the incident.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woIuFRL1Q6g&feature=related

(I have posted youtube videos in the past there seems to be a failure in the bbs's youtube functionality.)

[Alex Libman]

I'm still boycotting PHP because of Israel.   

[libertylover]

Good for you most of the stuff on the list I don't already use or care to.  
I don't play online games
Don't use AOL
Saving up to get away from windows my next computer will be an Apple
Don't have a Motorola
Don't use Shopping.com
AMD not Intel

The most difficult to purge would be SanDisk.  While I do use and Ipod it is not as user friendly and portable as Sandisk and compact flash media.  Sandisk is also quickly buying in patents on new technologies which are in the same area of media storage.

If you want to know if you are buying good from Israel just look at any UPS code if the first four number are 7290 that is the country code for Israel.  

[libertylover]

"One of the world's major intellectual voices and a leading critic of Israel, Noam Chomsky has sided with the powerless throughout his career, while at the same time reminding the powerful of the inconvenient truths they would rather forget."  David Tresilian

Noam Chomsky's Interview about the Freedom Flotilla.

Hijacking boats in international waters and killing passengers is, of course, a serious crime.  The editors of the London Guardian are quite right to say that "If an armed group of Somali pirates had yesterday boarded six vessels on the high seas, killing at least 10 passengers and injuring many more, a NATO taskforce would today be heading for the Somali coast." It is worth bearing in mind that the crime is nothing new. For decades, Israel has been hijacking boats in international waters between Cyprus and Lebanon, killing or kidnapping passengers, sometimes bringing them to prisons in Israel including secret prison/torture chambers, sometimes holding them as hostages for many years. Israel assumes that it can carry out such crimes with impunity because the US tolerates them and Europe generally follows the US lead. Much the same is true of Israel's pretext for its latest crime: that the Freedom Flotilla was bringing materials that could be used for bunkers for rockets.  Putting aside the absurdity, if Israel were interested in stopping Hamas rockets it knows exactly how to proceed: accept Hamas offers for a cease-fire.  In June 2008, Israel and Hamas reached a cease-fire agreement.  The Israeli government formally acknowledges that until Israel broke the agreeement on November 4, invading Gaza and killing half a dozen Hamas activists, Hamas did not fire a single rocket. Hamas offered to renew the cease-fire.  The Israeli cabinet considered the offer and rejected it, preferring to launch its murderous and destructive Operation Cast Lead on December 27.  Evidently, there is no justification for the use of force "in self-defense" unless peaceful means have been exhausted.  In this case they were not even tried, although — or perhaps because—there was every reason to suppose that they would succeed.  Operation Cast Lead is therefore sheer criminal aggression, with no credible pretext, and the same is true of Israel's current resort to force. The siege of Gaza itself does not have the slightest credible pretext.  It was imposed by the US and Israel in January 2006 to punish Palestinians because they voted "the wrong way" in a free election, and it was sharply intensified in July 2007 when Hamas blocked a US-Israeli attempt to overthrow the elected government in a military coup, installing Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan.  The siege is savage and cruel, designed to keep the caged animals barely alive so as to fend off international protest, but hardly more than that.  It is the latest stage of long-standing Israeli plans, backed by the US, to separate Gaza from the West Bank. These are only the bare outlines of very ugly policies, in which Egypt is complicit as well.

[ForumTroll]

Do you guys get off on this arguing? Seriously.

[Bill Brasky]

I would be careful about boycotting a company because it may have a minor involvement in Israel.  This may be a viable maneuver for the company as a whole, and its economic impact on the country may be minuscule. 

For example, Motorola.  Predominately a US company and makes quality products, and has been around since god made dirt.  Never participated in the mass-exodus of tech into Asia.  I donno where their products are actually manufactured, and its probable that they cut costs by having their manufacture done overseas.  But the company itself is based here, which is quite rare for tech. 

I'm not one of those guys who takes a bullet to buy American products, as I'm sure anyone who is even remotely familiar with me probably knows.  Me first, and fuck everything else - I want the best product I can afford, no matter where it comes from -- unless its from a country that completely pisses me off, and is exclusively based there.  But if they are equivalent products to make the choice between, I will defer towards the American product...  and I think Motorola meets my standards.  The few sheckles that may leak into Israel, I don't care.  If it was a purely Israeli product, I would not consider it. 

I favor a local quicky mart thats owned by a bunch of ragheads, over a local quicky mart thats owned by a bunch of whitebreads who've been here for a century.  Because the whitebread store sucks balls, and its run by complete idiots.  The raghead store makes a serious effort, and they treat their customers graciously.  Occasionally, they'll pass on ringing up an item if they recognize you as a repeat.  I've had them give me lighters, or ring an item up as general merchandise for a buck, when it cost more than that.  They do shit like that sometimes.

[libertylover]

Drifter I do actually agree with you.  Your observation about Motorola is reasonable.  There are only a few items that I purchase which are imports.  I do check out the ups codes on those.  I refuse to purchase anything that has the 7290 starting numbers. 

[libertylover]

Do you guys get off on this arguing? Seriously.

It isn't like the thread title was intended to trick you.  It is a heated topic that usually brings out arguments.  You don't see me getting on your Naught Nuns play with Dildos NSFW thread to bitch.  Only have problems when something is mislabeled.   

I do get what you are saying and it is the same thing which Kevin Smith said about his getting on Rotten Tomatoes.  His arguing was about his films.  On this subject however getting the truth out even if you end up arguing.  It is critical because without the truth the USA is going to end up getting involved in a disastrous war with Iran.  I think Iraq was more than enough of a bad judgment for this country to suffer.

[Bill Brasky]

Drifter I do actually agree with you.  Your observation about Motorola is reasonable.  There are only a few items that I purchase which are imports.  I do check out the ups codes on those.  I refuse to purchase anything that has the 7290 starting numbers. 

I'll have to remember the 7290 code.

I never heard of that.

[blackie]

I'm gunna start boycotting American products, because America support Israel.

[libertylover]

I'm gunna start boycotting American products, because America support Israel.

Many people around the world are already boycotting the USA due to it's irrational support of Israel in all maters.  It is part of the hidden cost of supporting Israel that doesn't get included in the foreign aid.  Other hidden costs are in the trade imbalance and military aid sweetheart deals.

Israel: strategic ally or liability for the USA?
Stephen Sniegoski debunks the arguments that Israel is a strategic US asset, advanced by Israel lobbyists such as billionaire chief editor of US News & World Report Mort Zuckerman, and argues that Israel is in fact a significant political, military and strategic liability for the United States. ...As a result of the Gaza flotilla massacre, which has caused a worldwide uproar against Israel, the value of Israel to the United States is being publicly questioned in more mainstream foreign policy forums. http://www.redress.cc/americas/ssniegoski20100613

[Alex Libman]

[...]  Noam Chomsky  [...]

I can't stand that commie asshole and those like him, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.   

I would be careful about boycotting a company because it may have a minor involvement in Israel.  This may be a viable maneuver for the company as a whole, and its economic impact on the country may be minuscule.  [...]

The only significant boycott-influenced decisions I've made is avoiding PHP and CheckPoint.  (And I no longer work in IT Security so the latter doesn't really matter anymore.)

I know I cannot hurt the economy of Israel, which is fed by billions of stolen dollars from abroad, but I can do the righteous thing in my own life, and that's what matters.  When people ask me why I refuse to use PHP, the most popular scripting language which used to be my bread and butter, I tell them.  I want those murderous commie motherfuckers in Israel to know I don't like them!
 

[libertylover]

[...]  Noam Chomsky  [...]

I can't stand that commie asshole and those like him, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.   

I would be careful about boycotting a company because it may have a minor involvement in Israel.  This may be a viable maneuver for the company as a whole, and its economic impact on the country may be minuscule.  [...]

The only significant boycott-influenced decisions I've made is avoiding PHP and CheckPoint.  (And I no longer work in IT Security so the latter doesn't really matter anymore.)

I know I cannot hurt the economy of Israel, which is fed by billions of stolen dollars from abroad, but I can do the righteous thing in my own life, and that's what matters.  When people ask me why I refuse to use PHP, the most popular scripting language which used to be my bread and butter, I tell them.  I want those murderous commie motherfuckers in Israel to know I don't like them!
 

Agreed a stopped clock can be right twice a day that is why I quoted Chomsky.  Just because a communist asshole doesn't like the Israeli regime.  That doesn't mean Israeli Zionist are for freedom and equality.  I think Chomsky is an idealist.  It is just that he has a romantic notion of how communism/socialism should work.  He is probably disappointed with Israel, a socialist country.  Because it only stands to prove that socialism is a seriously flawed system.  Especially in Israel where there are different levels of privilege based on ethnicity.  You only need look at Israel's discriminatory land policies to see why some of the shine has been rubbed off the communist apple for Chomsky.

I also agree that boycotts of Israel are only going to have a minor effect.  Because Israel is getting way too much stolen money from abroad.

[libertylover]

I will delete strawman Zionist apologist responses to this thread.   They are intellectually dishonest and the whole point of a hijack free zone is so that discussions can continue with out trolling.  

BTW actual direct witness testimony is not hearsay.  When people describe what happened directly to them or what they personally witnessed it is called testimony.  

The Zionist were in the process of spinning a story of how it was broad daylight when they innocently stopped the ships for inspection with paintball guns.  They probably would have even claimed they were in Israeli waters.  And that it wasn't until they were attacked ...bunch of other bullshit lies.  The raw footage that went out live in real time completely stopped them being able to pull off that hoax.  

The eye witnesses and raw footage tell a completely different story.  It was in international waters, in complete darkness, and the ships were fired upon well before any IDF boarded the main ship.  A ship loaded with journalist and volunteers as it was a ferry.  All cameras were confiscated.  And the paint-guns were actually modified to fire live ammo they only looked like paint-guns.  The reason was so that they could make the claim that all the witnesses were lying.  However there is live footage of the murder of the American camera man.  Who was shot five times at short range with 4 shots to the head.   This is reported to be smuggled out footage of that event.  4 shots to the head and one in the chest the IDF is claiming self defense.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdirKfgI2Y4&feature=related

There are two IDF kicking and standing over someone.  Then one IDF at point blank range pumps a gun and shoots several times at the person on the floor.  I know something about air guns they can be designed to be lethal weapons.  It is just illegal in the US to have such a gun.  Because it is a silent method of firing a projectile and depending on the air pressure behind the projectile determines how lethal.  Another benefit is that they are very light weight and with a canned air they would look like paintball guns.  Don't believe me google lethal air gun.  

[Diogenes The Cynic]

I'm gunna start boycotting American products, because America support Israel.

I'm gonna start boycotting boycotts, because boycotts boycott boycotts.