Should Bridget stay on the Shrine?

Yes

82 (57.3%)

No

61 (42.7%)

Total Members Voted: 37

[libertylover]

Here again why be so upset over this, it isn't important at all.  There are loads of women who have xx dna that you idiots wouldn't want to sleep with either.  I mean look at the stupid, "they all look like publisher's clearing house winners" thread.  Many trannys can't afford the op right away.  And she used no deception or fraud in presenting herself.  It would have been very easy to just present herself as a she and you wouldn't have been any the wiser.  I say she should stay for her courage and honesty.

I usually agree with Manwich but not this time.  So I won't jump on the Fire Manwich bandwagon, he more often than not is the voice of reason on many issues.  This time he needs to just get over it.

I am more upset with the defacement of submitted photos on the shrine.  Which is just another reason I wouldn't want to send in a photo of myself.  That showes a total lack of integrety.  Which is much more upsetting.  Than someone having the courage to put themselves on the line.

[Lindsey]

There is a condition where women have three X chromosomes and are called super females.  So you guys should say "At LEAST two X chromosomes."  And I think there are even genetic disorders where some people have four X chromosomes, but I think it results in severe issues and death.

But I also think it's not nice to call a bunch of people morons because they don't agree with you.

And there is no "t" in Manwich.   

You know, originally, the Shrine did not start out as a beauty contest, but I feel like there's some sort of skewed perception toward it.  The hot girls are generally connotated as the coolest, etc. and that's not fair.  And I hope other women don't feel the pressure to take their shirts off in their validation pictures, because then I think the purpose has mutated.   

[MobileDigit]

Great post, libertylover. I agree completely except for the part about Manwich. 

[libertylover]

I also think it's not nice to call a bunch of people morons because they don't agree with you.

You know, originally, the Shrine did not start out as a beauty contest, but I feel like there's some sort of skewed perception toward it.  The hot girls are generally connotated as the coolest, etc. and that's not fair.  And I hope other women don't feel the pressure to take their shirts off in their validation pictures, because then I think the purpose has mutated.   

That is interesting when you have called people that you didn't agree with far worse things.  I guess it would have been pc to say testerone junkies but I think I should have the right to call people out as lacking in intellegence on an issue when that is my perspective.  Trust me no one holds back on calling me names when they disagree with me.

The shrine is the same sort of marketing tool that most radio stations use to boost the number of listeners.  Men check out women and women check out other women.  It is right up there with babys and puppies as a marketing tool.  Women have more across the board appeal than men.  This is why your top female model makes considerably more money than the top male model.   You might ask why is that?   But you too need to realize that while it is still currently true that dynamic is changing.  Why because economic power is shifting.  So some day it might be a marketing tool to have a male shrine, probably not in my life time.

As women gain more economic power.  We become less dependent on trying to impress a male.  We don't need men as much as providers any longer.  With that independence comes power.  You don't see as many young women with dried up old men anymore.  You are however seeing an increase in the older woman, younger man relationship.  And back to the reason why women use to look at other women more than they do now days.  Women competed with eachother for limited number of provider males.  Men desired certain astetics in women and women desired economic security.  Now that more women aren't dependent on that economic security they can demand a higher astetic in males.   With these changes feeling the pressure to look good is no longer just on women.

So Boys you would be well advised to get a GQ and start working on your looks.  Because if you want to hitch your wagon and various other parts of your body to a sexy and sucessful woman.  You are going to need more than just a good paying job.

However, I have been called out several times in that Free Talk Live is not all about marketing and you all don't feel the need to please everyone.  With that in mind, I say again no fraud was involved and that should be a factor in favor of keeping her on.

[Yamguy]

There is a condition where women have three X chromosomes and are called super females.  So you guys should say "At LEAST two X chromosomes."  And I think there are even genetic disorders where some people have four X chromosomes, but I think it results in severe issues and death.

But I also think it's not nice to call a bunch of people morons because they don't agree with you.

And there is no "t" in Manwich.   

You know, originally, the Shrine did not start out as a beauty contest, but I feel like there's some sort of skewed perception toward it.  The hot girls are generally connotated as the coolest, etc. and that's not fair.  And I hope other women don't feel the pressure to take their shirts off in their validation pictures, because then I think the purpose has mutated.   

Stop being difficult, Lindsey.

[Lindsey]

Ugh...feminists.

[ladyattis]

Ugh guys carrying man purses while wearing fugly trucker caps and flip flops...[I saw that tuesday night during work... and I was like..... o_O;].

-- Bridget

[sheridan]

Here's a link to my rebuttal on the issue of what make's one a woman or not...

As for retaining my picture on the shrine. I think it's up to Ian, but I don't want to be the token shemale on the shrine unless most folks don't mind my mere presence. All in all, my solution for non-female persons to have a shrine or FTL fan photo page was to produce our own, as I stated in another thread about the issue of whether there should be a male listener shrine.

All in all, I don't mind the debate, because it's a necessary exercise for someone like myself when one like myself decides to move on and live his/her life.

-- Bridget

I was actually up in the air on this one.  Gender discrimination and Gender roles are issues that I am VERY passionate about.  By and large, I am opposed to people proscribing specific behavior because of a person's gender, up to and including what the person wants to be called by others (i.e. He, She, It, Bozo).  But when I read your rebuttal it convinced me... to vote NO.

In your rebuttal you say:

Second, womanhood isn't the same as being female. Being female or male is a standard for human reproduction, but being a woman or a man has no biological bearing.

and

The solution to what I am is that I am a woman, but I happen to be male.

The reason this made up my mind is that you very specifically make a distinction between female (biological) and woman (Societal Label), and then go on to say that you are a woman who happens to be a male.

By your own argument you should not be allowed into the Shrine of FEMALE Listeners.  When Ian opens a Shrine of Woman Listeners, I'll probably back you up on admittance   

[ladyattis]

My interest is not retaining a picture on the shrine, but my interest is that what we think to be attributes of sex to be eliminated from the definition such as womanhood and manhood. I've told Ian numerous times since this contraversy that if gets too annoying just take the picture off. I was surprised that he even put it on since I thought he was in Manwich's camp of the XX requirement.

-- Bridget

[Grey]

My interest is not retaining a picture on the shrine, but my interest is that what we think to be attributes of sex to be eliminated from the definition such as womanhood and manhood. I've told Ian numerous times since this contraversy that if gets too annoying just take the picture off. I was surprised that he even put it on since I thought he was in Manwich's camp of the XX requirement.

-- Bridget

yes you want to make being a man or woman relative/contextual.

that is simply not the case.  you can (and should) feel however you like, but you're either man or woman... it's not some subjective idea.

[ladyattis]

yes you want to make being a man or woman relative/contextual.

And this is not MALE/FEMALE, but you can't figure that out huh? Sorta like those folks that can't figure out meter and feet are not the same.

that is simply not the case.  you can (and should) feel however you like, but you're either man or woman... it's not some subjective idea.

My identity is not subjective, nor are mental states, look up anything on Objectivist Epistomology and you might find your errors to be corrected.

-- Bridget

[FTL_Ian]

Ian is rarely in Manwich's camp.  He's a silly, silly Manwich.

[ladyattis]

Ian is rarely in Manwich's camp.  He's a silly, silly Manwich.

Okay, Bob Dole... Bob Dole endorses drugs that help with penile dysfunction!

-- Bridget

[Grey]

yes you want to make being a man or woman relative/contextual.

And this is not MALE/FEMALE, but you can't figure that out huh? Sorta like those folks that can't figure out meter and feet are not the same.

that is simply not the case.  you can (and should) feel however you like, but you're either man or woman... it's not some subjective idea.

My identity is not subjective, nor are mental states, look up anything on Objectivist Epistomology and you might find your errors to be corrected.

-- Bridget

ok, so all these wackjobs who are convinced they're aliens from another planet or are elvis incarnate - must be so huh?  I mean they personally are convinced, and that's certainly a fact? so that's all it takes then?  I'm sorry, you that's obviously ignorant and wrong to think so...

Please.  It's so laughable.

[ladyattis]

ok, so all these wackjobs who are convinced they're aliens from another planet or are elvis incarnate - must be so huh?  I mean they personally are convinced, and that's certainly a fact? so that's all it takes then?  I'm sorry, you that's obviously ignorant and wrong to think so...

Not the same since it deals with fundamental temporality issues due to the fact that the term is a broad term alien. Do you mean space alien? Illegal alien? Resident alien?

Also, how in the hell does this equivocate to a proven factual phenomenon that human identity is based on the modality of our biology? If you're asserting a Cartesian Mechanical view of the body then must be really daffy considering how seemingly undifferentiated cells developed into differentiated forms through chemical state changes[that means they deviated in time...]. So please get some cited sources and stop being a Platonic/Descartes boot-licker, k?

-- Bridget