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Author Topic: Sam is a hero!  (Read 36807 times)

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blackie

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2009, 02:59:20 PM »

Sam is the Rosa Parks of Keene!
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Jetfire

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2009, 03:08:26 PM »

"Was it a success or a failure?

On one hand, it was a failure because the act was unsuccessful.

On the other hand, it is a success because nobody really felt like this was an unreasonable act of civil disobedience.

The courage to be oppressed yet never let ones principles falter was the greatest inspiration to change and grow those around him."
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blackie

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2009, 03:40:46 PM »

What has Sam accomplished??? Well you may not attribute this rule change to Sam but I sure will. Video recording is now allowed back in the court room because of Sam.
Sam was arrested for video recording in the lobby, and that is still not allowed.
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soliscjw

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2009, 03:47:29 PM »

I agree
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BonerJoe

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2009, 03:50:37 PM »

Maybe soon, an hero.
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fatcat

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2009, 04:36:28 PM »

Yea seriously he practiced his rights and was arrested. He remained stout with his principles. Despite everything he has faced he hasnt back down. That is nothing in comparison to accidently hurting yourself in some stupid stunt or exposing your penis.

This still is focused on motives, not effect.

for me, I only class a hero as someone who actually does something, not tries something. I can try and cure cancer but it doesn't mean dick unless I actually achieve it.

At a stretch I could call Marvin Heemeyer a hero, because he actually risked (and lost) his life trying to fight the state, although he didn't really change shit besides inconvenience a few bureaucrats.

I'd much rather put the term hero, if I was going to use the word, to black marketeers, who actually go through risks to make a tangible difference in the world

they increase competition in the marketplace, lowering prices and increasing supply, they risk their lives and their freedom, and they allow a non legal means for people to pursue their freedom to buy and use illegal products.

If you're going to pull the "Sam is bringing people to New Hampshire" card, then theres not much I can say. If you buy into the snowball effect, without any evidence its actually going to work.

You can pile your hopes on NH and the FSP, with success always being round the corner, but I've yet to see any meaningful change in liberty in NH, and I very much doubt there will be in the next 5-10 years. I keep hearing "when we have enough people" and talk of a theoretical "critical mass", but all it is based on is wishful thinking.

How many people are needed, 1,000 more? 10,000 more? 100,000? more? No one has a fucking clue because its based on nothing but half assed estimates and positive thinking. The only hard facts to go on are what has already happened. Hardly any people are signing up for the FSP anymore, and hardly anything has changed, and theres little reason to believe the future will be any different.

Comparisons to other movements such as civil rights or indian independence are laughable. Both the number of supporters and activists where astronomical in both cases compared to any cohesive libertarian movement.

What are some objectives that you might consider achieving success?

Decriminalization of drugs?
Lower taxes?
Lower regulation?

How long will it take for these to happen? How far has Sam gone to achieving these?

What the federal government is doing alone would balance out even a significant increase in NH liberty, especially if socialized medicine really kicks off.

Sam is no doubt well intentioned, but a hero label is laughable.

The US is a nation where people are unlawfully gunned down on a weekly basis, police abuse is rampant. This shit makes alot more national news coverage than what people like Sam and Lauren Canario do, and no one gives a shit, nothing changes. There are people think the War on Drugs and the War on Terror are both good and realistic goals.

If seeing people murdered by police, and then having the police get off without any punishment doesn't rile them into the pursuit of liberty, what the fuck chance has someone refusing to pay speeding tickets and making youtube videos about it got?


Some people seriously need some fucking perspective on how their actions do and don't affect the world. What you want to happen IS NOT the same thing as what will happening or what is happening.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 04:38:40 PM by fatcat »
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Jetfire

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2009, 05:15:45 PM »

You can criticize all you want but what are you doing to further liberty?

What change are you making?

By all means since we have no perspective on the proper way to handle the government and this entire fucked up statist society why dont you enlighten us?

It's because of people like you that people who are actually trying to achieve something aren't getting enough attention or being taken seriously.

I'm gonna do w/e I can with the options available to me to further liberty.

Even if it takes my life and I dont accomplish anything I'd be happy knowing I fought for something I believe in to the best of my ability and stayed true to my ideals.

You say that there's no evidence of any possible change with the free state project but think about it like a basketball court.

You can practice free throws and suck when you first start but you keep taking shots until you learn how to make the shots.

What better way to figure out the best activism to practice and the best way to enlighten people?

You wanna criticize and bitch and moan but why not back off and stop giving other people shit for doing what they can?

You go three weeks without food. You try going through all that and not breaking down.

He is a hero to me regardless of how useless his actions may or may not seem.

Because of him I am inspired to move on and do everything in my power to contribute.

I have no one who has influenced me like he has.

I always thought a real hero didnt necessarily have to accomplish much but inspired the best in others.

But maybe I'm wrong and delusional for trying to be optimistic and doing what I can to live my life to the best of my beliefs and for the future of society.
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Riddler

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2009, 05:21:34 PM »

You are correct. Sam truly is a hero. He is actually doing something constructive with his life. Unlike some folk here who talk tons of s#@t!

  In fact, I think I am going to design a "FREE SAM" Tshirt and donate the profits to Sam. He deserves it. In fact, I am open to any design ideas. For those who have constructive ideas, please send them my way.



you can actually say:
shit
piss
fuck
cunt
cocksucker
motherfucker
& tits, on this-here site.....
i seen it.

also:
PLEASE find someone else to design the free sam shirts, for the love of fuck
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Riddler

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2009, 05:28:43 PM »

Sam is the Rosa Parks of Keene!


nigga, please....
her actions actually helped change things, for the better, for black people.

lauren canario has been in jail more times than sam has hair on his head, for attempting to ''travel freely", without the encumbrances of pesky state paperwork
(registrations, driv. licenses, etc)
and what the fuck, exactly, has she accomplished?
if this , ''sam'', is a hero, you fucking people should have gold statues of that crazy canario bitch all over the fucking state!
a holiday/ day off from work in her name;
your first born child named after her;
books written about her....

fatcat is on the fuckin money, here.
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Jetfire

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2009, 05:37:28 PM »

Maybe he hasn't changed anything on a whole but in my egocentric predicament he has changed me and my view of the world. He's a hero to me.
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fatcat

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2009, 06:14:33 PM »

You can criticize all you want but what are you doing to further liberty?

What change are you making?

Where have I heard this before?

Quote
By all means since we have no perspective on the proper way to handle the government and this entire fucked up statist society why dont you enlighten us?

It's because of people like you that people who are actually trying to achieve something aren't getting enough attention or being taken seriously.

There aren't any easy answers. Liberty in our lifetime is a fucking joke.

I'm partway hopeful about the seasteading institute, although theres been a bad history of failed seasteading projects, so I'll see how this turns out. This is definitely the most professional and realistic attempt i've seen yet though.

Hopefully I'll move to Zug in a few years, partly for tax reasons, partly because cannabis is sold in shops, and most other drugs are overlooked, partly for legal prostitution and euthanasia, and partly because assault rifles and other guns are legal.

I don't expect any major increase in liberty. I expect a slight decrease in gun freedoms (which aren't spectacular, although better than the UK), there has been a trend towards liberalization of drug law, especially at the canton level, but that could go another way. Immigration laws suck in Switzerland, although fortunately if you own a business its fairly easy.

I don't feel the need to give myself a fantasy that doesn't exist. There isn't anywhere I'm going to be as free as I want in the next 10 years, probably not in the next 50 years.

Quote
I'm gonna do w/e I can with the options available to me to further liberty.

Even if it takes my life and I dont accomplish anything I'd be happy knowing I fought for something I believe in to the best of my ability and stayed true to my ideals.

You say that there's no evidence of any possible change with the free state project but think about it like a basketball court.

You can practice free throws and suck when you first start but you keep taking shots until you learn how to make the shots.

What better way to figure out the best activism to practice and the best way to enlighten people?

You wanna criticize and bitch and moan but why not back off and stop giving other people shit for doing what they can?

You go three weeks without food. You try going through all that and not breaking down.

He is a hero to me regardless of how useless his actions may or may not seem.

Because of him I am inspired to move on and do everything in my power to contribute.

I have no one who has influenced me like he has.

I always thought a real hero didnt necessarily have to accomplish much but inspired the best in others.

But maybe I'm wrong and delusional for trying to be optimistic and doing what I can to live my life to the best of my beliefs and for the future of society.

There's no reason to emotionalize this so much.

I want liberty as much as anyone here. I'm not willing to bullshit myself in order to make myself feel better. Most places are getting worse for liberty.

I didn't once say that I think everyone should give up, not once did I say I had a better idea.

But this is what it comes down to with your kind, it gets person "well, what are YOU doing?!", because its all coming from an emotional place. Civ-dis feels. The "answer" can be principled. Stand up against tyranny, right can triumph over wrong.

Its also a handy alternative to the political system, because its much easier to realize that very little is going to change in politics, and its easier to bullshit yourself that "out of the system" methods can be successful, because theres less precedent of failure.

I'm "giving other people shit", for the same reason I "give people shit" about global warming hysteria. I don't have any criticism for your goals, just your methods, and as someone who actually cares about liberty, I don't like to see people wasting their time on things that have very little evidence of working.

If people are hailing someone as a hero for liberty who in my opinion is essentially making close to 0 impact for liberty.

I'd rather have libertarians living their life in the way they enjoy than wasting it on shit that achieves nothing.

If all you want to do is try hard, whether you make a change or not, then go for it, but if you actually give a shit whether you make a difference, you should embrace criticism as a means to test your own beliefs and assumptions.

You should be saying, "You're wrong, this is making a difference, here's how...", not "if you don't have anything positive to say, shut up".

While I might seem like a bitching nay-sayer, I'm actually willing to talk about what will work to increase liberty, all this hopeful backslapping achieves nothing, and responding to criticism of your method (not your objectives) with "well what are you doing?!" is not a healthy attitude.
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ziggy_encaoua

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2009, 06:37:50 PM »

I'd like to see some of those who have posted on this thread give up their liberty on a point of principle as Sam is doing
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Jetfire

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2009, 06:46:40 PM »

Quote
Where have I heard this before?

I dunno where you've heard that before it was just a question.


Quote
There aren't any easy answers. Liberty in our lifetime is a fucking joke.

Honestly I'm not expecting liberty in my lifetime but I want to further as many freedoms as I can and leave something for my children to work from.


Quote
I'm partway hopeful about the seasteading institute,

I'm hopeful for seasteading but I think its gonna be waaay to costly.


Quote
Hopefully I'll move to Zug in a few years

I dont know where that is and I want to work and help out here.


Quote
There's no reason to emotionalize this so much.

You're right I just get passionate about my beliefs and goals.


Quote
I'm not willing to bullshit myself in order to make myself feel better.

I'm realistic I'm not expecting liberty in my lifetime. Theres way too much to change but I'm hopeful for my next of kin and so forth.


Quote
because its much easier to realize that very little is going to change in politics, and its easier to bullshit yourself that "out of the system" methods can be successful,

hasn't civil disobedience been effective in the past?


Quote
If people are hailing someone as a hero for liberty who in my opinion is essentially making close to 0 impact for liberty.

I claimed him as my hero and defended him as such. He's a hero in my eyes and I support him.


Quote
I'd rather have libertarians living their life in the way they enjoy than wasting it on shit that achieves nothing.

You dont know that. There's strength in numbers and plenty of stories throughout history of underdogs achieving there goals despite diversity.


Quote
You should be saying, "You're wrong, this is making a difference, here's how...", not "if you don't have anything positive to say, shut up".

See I did make my points on the difference it made in me. It inspired me. Maybe it won't make a difference but the point is you can never know until you try.
I would rather not give up and just sit around being pessimistic. I want to accomplish something so I'm going to do it.
Even if all I get is a warm fuzzy feeling for just doing what I believe in.


Quote
"well what are you doing?!" is not a healthy attitude

I just dont see how you can criticize someone for being anothers hero.
You wanted to criticize the free state project and say it'll do nothing then fine.
I asked what you were doing because I wanted to know. How's that unhealthy?
I dislike when someone criticizes a football player yet that "fan" cant and won't do half the shit the players do.
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Lindsey

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2009, 07:01:48 PM »

Wait a minute...

The t-shirt spammer isn't a total spammer?  What's going on here? 
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Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
         -George W. Bush

rabidfurby

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Re: Sam is a hero!
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2009, 07:25:03 PM »

Wait a minute...

The t-shirt spammer isn't a total spammer?  What's going on here? 

I think he realized Brasky was serious about the banhammer, and is trying to fit in here while still linking to his shitty site everywhere he can in his profile.
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