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jeffersonish

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Richard Mack - Oath Keeper - running against SOPA author
« on: February 21, 2012, 08:57:22 AM »

I don't know too much about Richard Mack, but I was aware of him before I saw he was running against Lamar Smith, the author of SOPA. Having been the LP candidate for Senate in AZ gives him some cred in my book but would love to hear more opinions about him. I'm a minarchist and Mack is probably more of a statist than I am just like Ron Paul is, but I have a feeling he is far closer to my views than Smith.

This is just out of curiosity since I live in California and can't vote for Mack and unfortunately cash flow right now dictates no discretionary spending so I won't be contributing to the campaign.
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MichaelWDean

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Re: Richard Mack - Oath Keeper - running against SOPA author
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 10:04:59 AM »

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MichaelWDean

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Re: Richard Mack - Oath Keeper - running against SOPA author
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 10:08:44 AM »

I'm an anarchist but I like Constitutionalists like Richard Mack and Ron Paul. They point out to statists that they're constantly being lied to and ripped off, by both parties. From that realization, it's a short jump to minarchy, then a short leap to anarchist.

I believe Ron Paul already is an anarchist, and will come out as such after he doesn't become president.

MWD

p.s. "Believing in the Non-Aggression Principle but being a minarchist is like believing in the Ten Commandments but murdering someone every few years." - Mike DeLuna
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jeffersonish

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Re: Richard Mack - Oath Keeper - running against SOPA author
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 10:00:48 PM »

I believe in the NAP a little like a believe in "Thou shalt not kill." They are both good things to live by but there are times when they should be disregarded. Killing in self defense is not immoral even though out of context, one would say, killing is immoral.

Similarly, my personal belief is, true anarchy is completely unworkable because it can't be enforced... you can't ensure its continuance. The problem is, there are people with varying degrees of sociopathy with varying degrees of intelligence, social skills and with varying levels of desire to control others. It is completely foreseeable that an ill-meaning, smart, sociopath with the ability to gather others around him would conspire successfully to create government out of anarchy and that person's government is likely to be worse than what we have. Now if someone wants to elaborate on a system for avoiding that in concrete terms, I'm all ears.

At any rate, I don't see any danger of having to choose between a minarchist and a constitutionalist anytime soon, let alone an anarchist and a minarchist. Sadly.
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SeanD

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Re: Richard Mack - Oath Keeper - running against SOPA author
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 01:37:07 AM »

Killing in self defense is not against the NAP.  Nap does not mean pacifist.  It means not to initiate force. 
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jeffersonish

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Re: Richard Mack - Oath Keeper - running against SOPA author
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 02:32:03 PM »

Killing in self defense is not against the NAP.  Nap does not mean pacifist.  It means not to initiate force. 

I never said killing in self defense violated the NAP. Read what I said.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Richard Mack - Oath Keeper - running against SOPA author
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 03:22:26 PM »

"........good things to live by but there are times when they should be disregarded."


I kinda took what you said the same way SeanD did.   So what in your opinion, would be a justifiable example of initiating force against someone who did not initiate force against you first?

I only ask as a person who doesn't really believe in the NAP, as a whole, myself. I think there are certain variety A-holes in this world who would benefit from a good ass kicking, just for the simple reason that they are A-holes who have until that point remain unchallenged throughout their lives, leaving a wake of painful experiences for others wherever they go. Those people......... I wouldn't mind seeing beat down a notch, NAP or not.
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jeffersonish

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Re: Richard Mack - Oath Keeper - running against SOPA author
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 01:34:08 PM »

Examples for me are the criminal justice system and to a lesser extent, venues for civil justice. As to the criminal justice system however, I think if we think about this from the standpoint of evolving the U.S. into a minarchist government, there would need to be an amendment that dictated that only actions involving a victim could be enforced criminally and that in all cases, the specific victims must be indicated on the complaint and that the victim would have the option of waiving the prosecution upon payment of restitution with one exception (that I can think of) and that being a case where the victim is being intimidated which would be a severe punishment crime. This exception would be in place to prevent thugs from committing crime with impunity.

The civil justice system is even now largely privatized -- most civil cases never reach the courts, being settled before they get there. People enter into agreements where they agree to arbitration all the time and waive rights afforded to them by law all the time. There is room for improvement and more privatization, but if it remained largely unchanged, I don't see a big problem with it.

I think the military has a role too and I haven't seen a workable solution to replacing the military as we know it. I don't buy into the idea that we could simply rely on individuals to protect themselves one by one or as small bands of militias against invading armies. I think the answer lies in some sort of decentralized control structure. With the speed with which attacks can be made in today's world, and that speed increasing all the time, I'm not sure how decentralization would work, but I think at least a partial solution lies in this approach. The fact is, there are countries that don't subscribe to anarcho-capitalism and they have big weapons paid for by their own non NAP practices that must be defended against. Voluntary funding might be part of the solution. Complete transparency vs. military secrets could be another part of the solution. And the biggest problem isn't the stealing of money to fund this nominally important function, but the potential for it to be used against those it is supposed to be protecting, or used against foreigners who have not aggressed.

I'm also of the opinion that government roads are so essential to the promotion of free trade and free association, and because of the potential for privatization to interfere with that, that the building and maintenance of government roads is a proper role of government just from a pragmatic point of view.

We have systems in place now that have private contractors bidding for the building and maintaining of roads under supervision of government entities like CalTrans in California. I see that as largely successful. I do think traffic tickets are largely handled wrongly and this is where my "where's the victim" rules could come into play.

Registration should be outlawed, not just of vehicles, but period. I don't want the government keeping records on individuals like a social security number, an FBI file, a DMV file, etc. and I can't think of any good reason to maintain records that identify individuals. If a crime is committed with a victim, obviously a file would need to be maintained during the investigation until all matters are resolved that pertain to it. When the case is closed and penalties satisfied, the file should go to the perpetrators and the victims and not maintained by the government. I see more problems than benefits from such record keeping and of course one has to violate the NAP just to maintain archived records.

I'm hoping I was coherent here. Lots of other things on my mind today.
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