The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: Ecolitan on August 07, 2011, 12:54:47 PM
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Listening to last Sunday's show I got annoyed at all the blanket refusal to allow for genetic or cultural differences that have a strong tie to race.
Example. My dog puked up beef stew a few weeks ago. Did it come from the old neighborhood watching survivalist to the East of me, or the barely english speaking mexicans to the West?
Is it impossible that the mexicans made textbook american beef stew? No.
I say there is a very very small chance that beef stew came from the mexicans. Does that make me a racist? I don't think so.
Ian and apparently others among the FTL crowd are so feared of being racist they can't see the world in front of their eyes.
Darker skinned people are far more likely to have flatter noses with wider nostrils. I don't need a study to prove it.
For the record, I like my mexi-neighbors better.
White people are more likely to say "dude" and "awesome".
How can a person convince themselves that they embrace cultural/ethnic diversity when they're so busy denying that it even exists?
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I agree this is getting silly. I would appreciate thicker skins on liberty people in general. One of the things I wanted when I became a libertarian is that if I said or did something mildly offensive without really realizing it people wouldn't take it so hard. I notice a lot of libertarians seem to be looking for a reason to bitch or be offended and they seem to stay mad forever. Someone says something that bothers me I tend to just let it go especially if it is someone who respects the NAP.
On the FTL Sunday show I sometimes feel a little bit for mark because his co-host seems to be looking for a excuse to snip at him. The new Monday Ian and Dale lovefest and the Sunday Mark walking on eggshells shows really have made me appreciate the regular format.
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those greasy wetback fucks poisoned yer dog & ''disguised'' the culprit as a dish a ''typical white family'' would cook.
think about it
if you continue to doubt yourself, you can ALWAYS fall back on ken-ken
i needed to tell you that?
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I'm not really one to talk about race very much, as you all know, but I too, at one point, back when I was a listener to the show, also noted that the show's approach to racial issues were entirely predictable, never straying from politically correct positions, and lacked any amount of distanced, non-emotive logic, which was quite disappointing and directly provided my motivation to seek out alternative sources of entertainment.
The new source of entertainment happens to center on zombies, where the non-thinking (non-thinking in the traditional zombie sense) personalities are typically afflicted by means or situations beyond their control, which is much more airy and cheerful as opposed to the sort of non-thinking personalities that afflict themselves willfully, which, frankly, caused me to feel embarrassment for them.
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you sound way higher than I can get with pot and legal shit. must be the go fast...
you talk often about race...
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you sound way higher than I can get with pot and legal shit. must be the go fast...
you talk often about race...
i often speak of road negroes
go slow>>>they
wthe fuck shit are yo talkin bout, williis?
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One of the things I wanted when I became a libertarian is that if I said or did something mildly offensive without really realizing it people wouldn't take it so hard. I notice a lot of libertarians seem to be looking for a reason to bitch or be offended and they seem to stay mad forever.
The reason people with integrity behave this way is because we don't want people using monopoly force to legislate our behavior. Encouraging people to police their own shit is a much better and more adult behavior than getting the police to get into their shit. It's fundamental to libertarianism that we have to encourage people to be self-governing (sometimes strongly, and in ways you may not like) rather to trying to govern them by coercion.
By the way, it's usually the same people who "don't get it" on this BBS (that explicitly does not include the OP, and probably doesn't include another of the previous posters, but I'm sure there's someone I have on ignore who went out of his way to prove my point.) There is nugget of truth to the idea that general behavior is too PC in this regard, but it's also true that some people really piss others off, and the complaining about others taking exception to bigoted talk is stale and tiresome.
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People that pull all the guns and vinegar on little things bother me. People who want to ostracize everyone who says some word they don't like remind me of censers and other dangerously judgemental fucks. I would prefere to be around and have discussions with people who are honest to me and themselves. Sticks and stones and all that.
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I was under the impression you were referring to my impatience with dios jewiness (it's more than that) with your first post. You might have noticed I don't bring it up when he doesn't. Also, you might have noticed I was well into Dio hating when you made your account and therefore have no idea how it all started. That motherfucker would not treat me well if we were to meet as strangers on most days. He has said in no uncertain terms how much he is offended by people who possess traits that I possess and objects to their very existence. He denies that now or at least pretends to have no clue what I'm talking about but he hasn't retracted a damn thing (a step necessary in apologies and forgiveness) so I'm forced to assume his self-righteous holier than thou bullshit still stands and will continue to react harshly when he chooses to remind me. Yes, I am unusually sensitive.
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I wasn't referring to anything. I thought I was agreeing with you. Whom ever any one wants to dislike as a person is none of my business really. I may have giving you shit over what I construed as collectivising, but after listening to Mark getting his balls busted every Sunday over every little snafu I think I will quite commentting on that as well. Next time I give a negative comment it'll be over "I like to eat orphan kittens" or something similar.
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People that pull all the guns and vinegar on little things bother me. People who want to ostracize everyone who says some word they don't like remind me of censers and other dangerously judgemental fucks. I would prefere to be around and have discussions with people who are honest to me and themselves. Sticks and stones and all that.
People who criticize aren't dangerous. People who use coercion (which is what happens when you let that kind of unacceptable behavior fester) are. Calling it dishonesty is...dishonest.
wo --> who
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You go right ahead. I'll wait for the actual coercion. I am sick of arguing over words people want to use or opinions or generalizations. Long as a person follows the NAP I see no reason to confront them on any issue. It is just getting boring and irritating to me.
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You go right ahead.
I will then. I am with you 100% on NAP being my religion, I liked that you said that. I can pontificate upon it for a good while but I'll just say this.
NAP is how to NOT be evil. It takes more than that to be actively good and it has very little to do with your clothing (which I expect you never will see dio make a big deal about thanks to me). Also I probably wouldn't have been so hard on Dio if I'd realized how young he is at the time. I'm not inclined to backtrack though. I've worked too hard and paid to high a price purging my life of people who spend an inordinate amount of time telling me how I'm not good enough to turn around and welcome Dio into it.
And since this thread is dead to it's original purpose and I am assuming the original was lost in the purge. It is interesting to note that Dio's complaints about dress went beyond dirty construction and rural types to include all people who couldn't be bothered or felt no compulsion to wear a collar every time they left the house yet we recently discovered that when he goes to the bar he wears a t-shirt and ballcap... L O fucking L especially since if I pick clothing specifically for social events it almost invariably involves a collar (the better to manipulate shallow people into treating me better). I guess the shine of his new jew uniform wore off. Maybe one day he'll shed the sense of superiority as well.
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So anyway, Stephanie? Is it Stephanie on sunday? We can see that men have smaller boobs and more facial hair so why is it so hard to think that some genetic differences can effect personality and thought process? It's a fact that testosterone levels will change a person's behavior so why isn't it acceptable to believe that women would more likely to behave as a person with more estrogen and less testosterone in their brain than the man standing next to them? And mark said you were scientific. You're anything but.
Of course men and women are biologically wired to think and act differently. It's a scientific fact. Moron. You are a complete and total feminazi so intent on your agenda your arguments have no relation to reality whatsoever.
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You go right ahead.
I will then. I am with you 100% on NAP being my religion, I liked that you said that. I can pontificate upon it for a good while but I'll just say this.
NAP is how to NOT be evil. It takes more than that to be actively good and it has very little to do with your clothing (which I expect you never will see dio make a big deal about thanks to me). Also I probably wouldn't have been so hard on Dio if I'd realized how young he is at the time. I'm not inclined to backtrack though. I've worked too hard and paid to high a price purging my life of people who spend an inordinate amount of time telling me how I'm not good enough to turn around and welcome Dio into it.
And since this thread is dead to it's original purpose and I am assuming the original was lost in the purge. It is interesting to note that Dio's complaints about dress went beyond dirty construction and rural types to include all people who couldn't be bothered or felt no compulsion to wear a collar every time they left the house yet we recently discovered that when he goes to the bar he wears a t-shirt and ballcap... L O fucking L especially since if I pick clothing specifically for social events it almost invariably involves a collar (the better to manipulate shallow people into treating me better). I guess the shine of his new jew uniform wore off. Maybe one day he'll shed the sense of superiority as well.
.
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I was under the impression you were referring to my impatience with dios jewiness (it's more than that) with your first post. You might have noticed I don't bring it up when he doesn't. Also, you might have noticed I was well into Dio hating when you made your account and therefore have no idea how it all started. That motherfucker would not treat me well if we were to meet as strangers on most days. He has said in no uncertain terms how much he is offended by people who possess traits that I possess and objects to their very existence. He denies that now or at least pretends to have no clue what I'm talking about but he hasn't retracted a damn thing (a step necessary in apologies and forgiveness) so I'm forced to assume his self-righteous holier than thou bullshit still stands and will continue to react harshly when he chooses to remind me. Yes, I am unusually sensitive.
.
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"Race" does not exist. It is an unscientific concept invented by a bunch of proto-Commie sociologists who lacked a good theory to explain economic and social differences between people who had different skin colors and bone structures.
To talk of significant genetic differences between "races" effecting differing levels of intelligence, athletic ability, intellect, and the like is fallacious, because there is just as much variation between members of the same race as there is between members of different races; and also because there are no sharp lines distinguishing the so-called "races".
It can be fair to make a few presumptions based on the physical appearance or cultural origin of a person, but it is not okay to make assumptions (where a presumption is only a convenient working hypothesis, known likely to be proven false by additional knowledge, whereas an assumption is a belief held without regard to evidence whatsoever). And generalizations are always wrong, and also inconvenient because even if they're "mostly true" you always have to revise them later on. I think it's best not to take such a position in the first place and refrain from making judgments until you actually know something about the case.
On the other hand, I'm with those in this thread who object to the political correctness of some liberty people towards the issue. I do worry about the potential for a community to ostracize others over an opinion on which one does not intend to act. E.g., if someone has been deeply indoctrinated to hate black people, but despite that has no intent to do harm to a black person, then ostracizing them will accomplish nothing but to fuel their hatred. People don't learn without being around other people who are different from them. This hair-trigger ostracism reaction that I see threatening to emerge in the liberty community will only serve to compartmentalize problems, and will not provide any real solutions.
I understand that FTL and the FSP want to distance themselves from any possibility of being accused of racism or other forms of bigotry, but you don't need to shout down anyone who says anything that could possibly, in the broadest of interpretations be considered bigotry to do that. All you need to do is disagree.
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Obviously, sickle cell anemia does not exist, and British did not learn to use quinine to avoid malaria, because, you know, all cultures are genetically identical.
:roll:
The truth is obviously somewhere between the extreme deniers of differences and the people who think everyone with skin that's a shade different from theirs is subhuman.
As for "hair trigger ostracism," I'd say any pussy who's afraid of being criticized for having an insensitive view of others is going to do poorly in a truly free society, where harsh criticism will probably be freely distributed (and will be far preferable to the violence which comes from not communicating or from communicating mostly threats of violence.)
(For the record, I think Stephanie argued her positing very poorly, and as expressed, I found it indefensible. There may have been something important she failed to say, but, how would I know what that was?)
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Hmm... I just re-read my post, and I don't find any denial that sickle-cell anemia exists or anything about quinine. In fact, I don't find any denial at all that certain biological attributes are more likely to exist within certain strains of genetic lineage. What I did say is that people shouldn't generalize.
Cultural differences certainly do exist. But culture and race are not the same thing. A culture spreads from person to person in a memetic fashion and is not contained by any supposed "racial" boundaries. The belief that "race" and culture are causally linked is racism. It's a form of polylogism.
I would say that, in fact, culture is to blame for much of what is usually ascribed to race. For example, take a look at the average intelligence of black people in societies with market economies as compared to those still living under tribal socialism and you will see a huge difference. Then take a bunch of white people whose ancestors were geniuses and throw them into a welfare farm and watch the same damn thing happen. They are of the same genetic strain, and yet vary wildly in their intellectual capacity based on the culture in which they are immersed - each having very different incentives for exercising the intellect, and very different attitudes towards the value of thought itself.
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_PPPysDsAc&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
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Hmm... I just re-read my post, and I don't find any denial that sickle-cell anemia exists or anything about quinine.
People with genetic heritage from the african continent are more likely to develop sickle-cell anemia. If it makes you more comfortable to group those people into some other category than race that also identifies there common genetic traits I might be willing to refrain from ridiculing you, but I doubt it.
Dio, quoting me is definitely a better kinder thing to do than realizing that if we were both in wal-mart and you walked right up to me and told me what you think of my dress not being up to your standards is no different than you doing it here and apologizing for being a first rate asshole. But that's far more than I expect of you (being the first rate asshole you are) which is why I'll continue to treat you as you treat others.
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Obviously, sickle cell anemia does not exist, and British did not learn to use quinine to avoid malaria, because, you know, all cultures are genetically identical.
:roll:
The truth is obviously somewhere between the extreme deniers of differences and the people who think everyone with skin that's a shade different from theirs is subhuman.
As for "hair trigger ostracism," I'd say any pussy who's afraid of being criticized for having an insensitive view of others is going to do poorly in a truly free society, where harsh criticism will probably be freely distributed (and will be far preferable to the violence which comes from not communicating or from communicating mostly threats of violence.)
(For the record, I think Stephanie argued her positing very poorly, and as expressed, I found it indefensible. There may have been something important she failed to say, but, how would I know what that was?)
About the hair trigger ostracism: truth is I'm just an angry sort, which typically means afraid of mean people hurting my feelings. Probably something to do with my Dad being an abusive asshole. (no I don't think I'm revealing anything to anyone who isn't a moron. You've been watching for a few years)
One day when I particularly didn't need it I logged in and heard dio talking about how he objected to people like me existing in his world. Fuck that, I'm not gonna take that bullshit from that never accomplished nothing with his fucking life hypocrit. Today's not the day I'm gonna nod and smile while he takes a psychological dump on me.
I doubt this will ever have the effect of convincing someone to be nicer, but like the hell's angels make regular motorcyclists acceptable, maybe more moderate people will find it invisibly useful to creating a kinder world.
Truth about Stephanie's argument. I didn't pay much attention, I shut it off. Don't have to dissect her every argument to know the entire perspective she's coming from is dogmatically retarded which means she can only reach an accurate conclusion by accident.
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The concept of race was created to ascribe biological causes to cultural differences. It all gets down to polylogism in the end. There's no point in trying to salvage a concept with such a history of collectivist pseudo-science. Why don't you pick a different term, if you're so adamant about sociobiology? There's certainly no shortage of them.
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I believe the English word is "race". Ethnicity doesn't work because it's also used for cultural differences where there is no observable genetic variations. Can't we just call a spade a spade or am I going to have to start talking about the 100 meter self-powered speed competition.
I also don't believe for one second you can identify the original use of the word "race" in it's original language and explain exactly the intended meaning in context. Who ever told you that shit just made it the fuck up or believed someone who did.
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Oh, right - I couldn't possibly have done any research or anything like that. I disagree with you, so I must be making stuff up. :roll:
Sorry, but you can't just willy-nilly disregard the origin of the term. Once people referred to "the human race" as being distinct from animals. When early sociologists started referring to other "races" they used the term deliberately to call to mind just as great a distinction. The Mongoloids and Negroids were supposed to be something other than and inferior to Caucasoids, and "other human beings" just doesn't carry the same weight as saying that they are of a different race - something greater than mere animals, but not like "us" at all. It was debated whether members of other races had souls (because if they did, then slavery was unjust) and notable abolitionists, especially among Catholic missionaries, argued against the use of the term "race" at all precisely because it implied that they did not. Unfortunately, most of them were willing to extend that principle only to Mongoloids (which included native Americans), and largely agreed with the racial sociologists that Negroids were, in fact, of a different race, distinguishable from animals only by their (in the belief of that time, marginally) greater intelligence and therefore less than human. There was even a pre-Darwinian theory of evolution which posited that Negroids evolved from apes whereas Caucasoids and Mongoloids were created beings.
And it's not as if people, after learning more about human biology, suddenly realized they had been wrong and stopped using the term in its original sense. It was insinuated into the debates about slavery as recently as the American civil war. Pro-slavery people (including none other than Abraham Lincoln himself) referred to the burden of "the superior race", which was fully human, to subjugate "the inferior race", which was not fully human, for their own good. And today modern politicians use the term to refer to classes of people with inherently different abilities to care for themselves: the black "race" is a disadvantaged class, and would continue to be in their terminology a "social minority" even if there were more blacks in society than whites.
Of course if you want to, you can go on using the word "race" however you want. You can also call yourself a bag of turnips and say that 2+2=dog for all I care. You'll be wrong in all those cases, but you can. Nobody's stopping you.
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Not a single reference there illustrating an historical use of the word.
It's like that guy who sold the real estate courses in the 80s and the commodities courses in the nineties who always says that the literal meaning of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. No it doesn't no matter how many local news anchors you can convince to help you destroy effective communication. I'm afraid culture and ethnicity are sufficient to denote observable behavioral phenomena in absence of genetic differences.
That leaves us with a need for a word that describes biological differences among groups of people. I only know of one word and I refuse to believe that refusing to acknowledge the fact that "race" exists is a virtous thing. See sig.
FUCK. Race/spade. All of our single syllable words are being stolen. Why do you hate efficiency?
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The wage discrepancy between short and tall is bigger than that of black and white or male and female.
Thrice in my life someone has prefaced an observation of my size with "no offense". Which never fails to shock and insult me. (why would someone expect that could be more offensive than observing that my shirt is red? What must that person think to cause him to say "no offense")
Do you know why I'm not going on about how height is an illusion? Cuz I'm not a fucking moron that's why.
Short people have been second class citizens in every culture in the history of the world. Count the short litigators/politicians/salsmen. We get no respect, our words don't carry the same weight. If I were to set out to change it (which I'm not). The words people use would be farthest from my mind. But.... In the future, if you insist on sticking to this race doesn't exist bullshit, I would prefer you call me differently statutes to prevent the stink of thousands of years of oppression following that word "short". You know that's what people say when they can't afford to feed themselves... "I'm a little short" they say.
Short does not exist cuz what some people think when referring to short is inconvenient for me.
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Oh, I see. Effective communication is best achieved by redefining words against their original meanings to suit one's own purposes.
Screw that. Words have objective meanings defined by their etymology and history. Race is a word invented by, and historically used by, racists. You don't have to be a racist to use it, but it sure is silly to try to save it from the racists.
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I hate Saxons. Bunch of fucking horse faced monocle wearing ponces.
Also Celts.
Lookit these idiots -
(http://www.fashion-era.com/images/all_greeks_romans/anglo-saxon-man-warriorjpg.jpg)
Fucking stupid Saxons.
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Oh, I see. Effective communication is best achieved by redefining words against their original meanings to suit one's own purposes.
Screw that. Words have objective meanings defined by their etymology and history. Race is a word invented by, and historically used by, racists. You don't have to be a racist to use it, but it sure is silly to try to save it from the racists.
I apologize, I was editing... Read more about short and understand that I meant "differently statured"
And that it addresses your saving the word race from racists..... wAIT a fucking minute.... You can't use that word "racist". It comes from race. What the fuck are you gonna call a racist now?
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The wage discrepancy between short and tall is bigger than that of black and white or male and female.
Thrice in my life someone has prefaced an observation of my size with "no offense". Which never fails to shock and insult me. (why would someone expect that could be more offensive than observing that my shirt is red? What must that person think to cause him to say "no offense")
Do you know why I'm not going on about how height is an illusion? Cuz I'm not a fucking moron that's why.
Short people have been second class citizens in every culture in the history of the world. Count the short litigators/politicians/salsmen. We get no respect, our words don't carry the same weight. If I were to set out to change it (which I'm not). The words people use would be farthest from my mind. But.... In the future, if you insist on sticking to this race doesn't exist bullshit, I would prefer you call me differently statutes to prevent the stink of thousands of years of oppression following that word "short". You know that's what people say when they can't afford to feed themselves... "I'm a little short" they say.
Short does not exist cuz what some people think when referring to short is inconvenient for me.
quiet down, midget.......& fetch me a cold drink
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Stuff
YOU FUCKING SAXON SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR LONG THIN NOSE ADAPTED FOR COLDER CLIMATES AND YOUR WHITE FUCKING SKIN THAT CAN'T HANDLE A LITTLE SUN.
FUCK YYYOOOOOOUUUUUU HACKY SACKY SAXON LONGSHANKS BOW PLUCKER ELF QUEEN.
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wAIT a fucking minute.... You can't use that word "racist". It comes from race. What the fuck are you gonna call a racist now?
That's a huge non sequitur. Denying the validity of a concept does not mean that one cannot use it within the context of people who believe in it.
Do you think that people who don't believe in God should not refer to people who do as "theists"?
As for your attempt at analogizing between race and stature - people are, objectively, shorter or taller than other people. People are also, objectively, darker or lighter skinned than other people. If short people tend to be worse at math (which I just came up with off the top of my head as an example; I have no idea if it's statistically true or not), most people would consider it absurd to posit that the same biological trait which causes their shortness also causes their relative mathematical ineptitude.
So why should it not be just as absurd to conflate correlation and causality when it comes to skin color and, say, intelligence? Considering that when you put members of the same race in different social and cultural environments their relative intelligence differs widely, does it not make more sense to take the position that it is culture, rather than genetic heritage, which causes intellectual disparities between peoples?
For example, equatorial climates lead to a condition in which less ingenuity is required for people to survive. As a result, the emerging culture will value ingenuity less highly than, say, people who live in a tundra. But if, after many generations, you put an equatorial people into a tundra, you will immediately see latent intellectual capacity begin to emerge. Likewise if you put Steppe peoples into an idyllic tropical paradise, you will see a culture emerge where less emphasis is placed on inventiveness and cunning than that which had previously existed.
Equatorial climates also produce darker skin pigmentation, so you tend to find that people with darker skin colors have cultures which value intellect less highly than other people. That's a correlation. It is not a causal relationship. It is not evident at all that the same genetic history which produced the dark skin also produced the values system of the culture. In fact, what caused BOTH the culture and the biology to exist is the Sun's effect on the environment where they lived. The effects share a common cause; their relationship to one another is parallel - purely correlative.
The theory of race does far more than acknowledge the objective physical differences between different peoples (in fact it cannot properly acknowledge those difference in the first place, since racial theory makes qualitative statements, and those differences are quantitative rather than qualitative). It attempts to explain cultural differences by ignoring testable environmental explanations in favor of biological ones which are, at this point in time, untestable.
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I'd threaten to be upset dragline but I know that you know little people just get cuter when they're pissed off
Why are plumbers so large? Always with the tin.y spaces. It amuses me. My plumber is 6'6". I WILL NOT crawl for him... I hate that tiny space shit.
and macfall, you still haven't given. Single real price of evidence involving the real literal meaning of race and also haven't come up with a different word. Pretending it doesn't exist is stupid. Maybe we should make the new word...
Voldemort: I'm more likely to develop sickle cell anemia because of my Voldemort.
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I think macfall you must feel very guilty about being racist to take the stance you do. The rest of us can speak as Englishmen.
Oh shit was that a culturalist or a racial remark? I'm a fucking bigot and must kill myself now.
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The rest of us can speak as Englishmen.
I FUCKING KNEW IT.
(http://www.welovemetal.com/newsite/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/saxon-logo.jpg)
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The wage discrepancy between short and tall is bigger than that of black and white or male and female.
Thrice in my life someone has prefaced an observation of my size with "no offense". Which never fails to shock and insult me. (why would someone expect that could be more offensive than observing that my shirt is red? What must that person think to cause him to say "no offense")
Do you know why I'm not going on about how height is an illusion? Cuz I'm not a fucking moron that's why.
Short people have been second class citizens in every culture in the history of the world. Count the short litigators/politicians/salsmen. We get no respect, our words don't carry the same weight. If I were to set out to change it (which I'm not). The words people use would be farthest from my mind. But.... In the future, if you insist on sticking to this race doesn't exist bullshit, I would prefer you call me differently statutes to prevent the stink of thousands of years of oppression following that word "short". You know that's what people say when they can't afford to feed themselves... "I'm a little short" they say.
Short does not exist cuz what some people think when referring to short is inconvenient for me.
I was short until after high school. Working at a grocery store the customers would constantly comment on my stature. I'm still skinny and people still comment on my size/weight even though I'm now 6 foot. If I were to comment on a fat persons weight it would be the ultimate insult, but telling me I need some "meat on your bones" or that I'll blow away in the wind, etc etc. ... its somehow different?
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The rest of us can speak as Englishmen.
I FUCKING KNEW IT.
(http://www.welovemetal.com/newsite/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/saxon-logo.jpg)
Welsh, mostly, or partly, and Scotch, and Irish, My momma tells me I'm from one of the lost tribes of Israel but I don't think she can prove it. She also doesn't understand why all national boundaries can't stay exactly as they are til the end of time... I don't really believe anything she "thinks" after that. Also my family has for the last several years been getting the free injun moneys cuz someone found some Choctaw somewhere. So now I have to get the fuck off my land and I'm having the greatest difficulty accomplishing that. Apparently I am completely Sooner born and Sooner bred. (cuz of the land run for those that don't know. White people gave OK to Injuns (well they're not from India so why not spell it phonetically?) then stole it but with rules and some people broke the rules and came "sooner" and they ended up running things and shtooping Injuns... That's where I come from.
Yes Anarchir it's different in that it's acceptable to think little people are less (pun intended). It's ok to communicate pity for them and other such things for the terrible hardship our low caloric requirements bring us. Do you know I have to scoot almost every vehicle seat I get in forward? It's harrowing.
Personally I find being 5'6" and 150 (when I'm in good shape) is exactly perfect for drawing in girls that are 5'0" and 105 which is exactly how I likem (and how I know that little people really do get cuter when they're angry). I am very glad that, because of my size, they always notice me.
OMG I just acknowledged a preference for people who look like me with similar backgrounds and life experiences that I can relate to. I must immediately change the words I use to pretend as if these thoughts aren't always present in my mind like every other individual in the history of the motherfucking world.
So what does it mean that I feel a special affinity for the many mexicans around here? Well, I work for cash and don't file taxes, I'm shorter than most of most everyone I meet wants to put me in a cage. Many people in my socio-economic group are varying degrees of petty criminals so people like Dio tend to judge us all by our appearance and try to make us feel bad for existing. Last year I grew peppers where most people put flowers, this year my mexi-neighbor has peppers where last year he had flowers. my plumber affectionately calls me "his mexican". I fucking love me some mexicans, their are many things about their culture I would like to see more in "my" culture. Does that make me a racist? Cuz I acknowledge differences? Is that a racist or a culturalist? Who fucking cares? DIVERSITY EXISTS! I fucking know that.
A THAT, Macfall, is how you have an open, honest discussion about race that promotes greater understanding among individuals. NOT by pretending it doesn't fucking exist. So now that you have some idea of what I think about when I think about race I'm gonna drop the bomb that really pisses you PC freaks the fuck off.
I see no reason whatsoever that if groups of people can share the same genetic characteristics that effect physical traits they can't also possess the same genetic characteristics that effect brain function and chemistry. I don't know that they do... but I don't know that they don't either and I'm pretty sure anyone currently alive that tells you he DOES know is a fucking liar.
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I'm not pretending anything. Race, as a matter of objective fact, DOES NOT EXIST. If it did, then you could show me one and distinguish it from another. But you can't take any two individuals and point to any attribute or set of attributes that qualify them as being members of different races. There is no definitive break in the genetic history of the human race by which such a distinction can be established, so you're limited to referencing specific attributes. You can try with skin color, but I can show you "white people" with darker skin than "black people". You can try with bone structure, but I can show you a vast variety of bone structures within the so-called Negroid or Mongoloid "races" that cross over into each other and into Caucasoid territory. You can try with culture, but I can show you example upon example of people with the same genetic heritage who develop different cultures according to their environments. Race is a fantasy. It is a long-discredited social theory only of use to collectivists. And when individualists accept and use the concept, they only undermine themselves.
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Oh, right - I couldn't possibly have done any research or anything like that. I disagree with you, so I must be making stuff up. :roll:
Sorry, but you can't just willy-nilly disregard the origin of the term. Once people referred to "the human race" as being distinct from animals. When early sociologists started referring to other "races" they used the term deliberately to call to mind just as great a distinction. The Mongoloids and Negroids were supposed to be something other than and inferior to Caucasoids, and "other human beings" just doesn't carry the same weight as saying that they are of a different race - something greater than mere animals, but not like "us" at all. It was debated whether members of other races had souls (because if they did, then slavery was unjust) and notable abolitionists, especially among Catholic missionaries, argued against the use of the term "race" at all precisely because it implied that they did not. Unfortunately, most of them were willing to extend that principle only to Mongoloids (which included native Americans), and largely agreed with the racial sociologists that Negroids were, in fact, of a different race, distinguishable from animals only by their (in the belief of that time, marginally) greater intelligence and therefore less than human. There was even a pre-Darwinian theory of evolution which posited that Negroids evolved from apes whereas Caucasoids and Mongoloids were created beings.
And it's not as if people, after learning more about human biology, suddenly realized they had been wrong and stopped using the term in its original sense. It was insinuated into the debates about slavery as recently as the American civil war. Pro-slavery people (including none other than Abraham Lincoln himself) referred to the burden of "the superior race", which was fully human, to subjugate "the inferior race", which was not fully human, for their own good. And today modern politicians use the term to refer to classes of people with inherently different abilities to care for themselves: the black "race" is a disadvantaged class, and would continue to be in their terminology a "social minority" even if there were more blacks in society than whites.
Of course if you want to, you can go on using the word "race" however you want. You can also call yourself a bag of turnips and say that 2+2=dog for all I care. You'll be wrong in all those cases, but you can. Nobody's stopping you.
If you're going to get pedantic:
Definition of race (from Merriam Webster's web site, m-w.com)
1
: a breeding stock of animals
2
a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock
b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics
3
a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group
b : breed
c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
4
obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition
5
: distinctive flavor, taste, or strength
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Stuff
YOU FUCKING SAXON SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR LONG THIN NOSE ADAPTED FOR COLDER CLIMATES AND YOUR WHITE FUCKING SKIN THAT CAN'T HANDLE A LITTLE SUN.
FUCK YYYOOOOOOUUUUUU HACKY SACKY SAXON LONGSHANKS BOW PLUCKER ELF QUEEN.
say wat motherfucker?
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The dictionary definition doesn't provide any identifiable traits by which to objectively qualify a race. That's because it can't, and that's because there aren't any. For any of those definitions, there can exist no clear delineation between members of one supposed race and another.
a: all humans are "of the same stock" because we share a common ancestor. There is no single point of divergence by which a separate stock can be identified, all points of divergence being equally valid.
b: this definition backs up my point that race is a sociological concept. But again, there is no objective way to qualify which interests, habits, or characteristics must be shared in order to constitute a race. There is also no point at which such distinctions can stop being made. By this definition, you run into different "races" every time you travel to a different neighborhood.
3: And by this definition, the entire human species constitutes a single race (which is the position I take), and at the same time, there is a different "race" for about every 50 households. Contradictory definitions are meaningless.
c: this definition requires that such "distinctive physical traits" be identified. The progenitors of the concept tried to do that with facial bone structure, but after they were discredited, nobody has attempted to do so again.
Perhaps Ecolitan, if he cares so much about the word, can attempt to describe which "distinctive physical traits" exist which can credibly be causally linked with universal tendencies towards any particular non-physical trait.
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If there are no races, then there can be no racists.
Viola!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdtQfibyF68
[youtube]FdtQfibyF68[/youtube]
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DOES NOT EXIST. If it did, then you could show me one and distinguish it from another.
I can. Of course the vast majority of us have a lot of different races in us but you can tell what is predominant. Usually I can tell Semitic people from Caucasians but never persians/arabs/jews. So far as I'm concerned they are just "the semitic races" which I know is a reference to their common writing and not DNA but you can tell them by looking at them. Also Asian (Mongoloid if I wanted to piss you off more) from African is a cinch. Nope, can't do it every time but by far often enough to know there are overwhelmingly common characteristics in all these... groups of... biologi...... geographically ti....... Fucking RACES goddamnit! It's the only word that means what that word means.
In order to show you I typed Asian into google. Now I'm sidetracked. Looks like google has a pretty good idea of what they think Asians should look like, I highly recommend seeing for yourself.
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The dictionary definition doesn't provide any identifiable traits by which to objectively qualify a race. That's because it can't, and that's because there aren't any. For any of those definitions, there can exist no clear delineation between members of one supposed race and another.
It doesn't tell you how to objectively qualify species of barnacles either but some very boring people assure me they exist. Cuz we haven't completely figured something out is no reason to say it doesn't exist. It does exist even if our understanding of it leaves much to be desired.
I don't know EXACTLY why all those naked girls had great skin and narrow eyes but according to google it's cuz they're Asian and just being born on a landmass won't do that. If my kids were born in china they wouldn't look Asian so it must not be geography or nationality... must be some other word that involves asians... RACE.... that's it. Because they have an Asian racial heritage, that's why they have slanty eyes. Can I point to the chromosomes? No, but I can still tell they're Asian... How is that possible?
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DOES NOT EXIST. If it did, then you could show me one and distinguish it from another.
I can. Of course the vast majority of us have a lot of different races in us but you can tell what is predominant. Usually I can tell Semitic people from Caucasians but never persians/arabs/jews.
Seriously?
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Not never... I've never actually tried.
Hey Bob, is that mostly naked girl on that pole Persian or Arab? Is something I would never have any interest in saying whatsoever.
So yeah, seriously. Can't tell a Greek from an Italian either, they all look Mediterranean to me. It's not like I go thinking about it or practicing. I can pick out Asian eyes and African noses. Can't tell one Semite from another to save my life, wouldn't know where to start. I'm talking about a seriously middle eastern jew. Not an American/European Jew... I expect Y'all are as mudblood as the rest of us whether you like it or not.
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Not never... I've never actually tried.
Hey Bob, is that mostly naked girl on that pole Persian or Arab? Is something I would never have any interest in saying whatsoever.
So yeah, seriously. Can't tell a Greek from an Italian either, they all look Mediterranean to me. It's not like I go thinking about it or practicing. I can pick out Asian eyes and African noses. Can't tell one Semite from another to save my life, wouldn't know where to start.
I'm suggesting that it's ridiculous for you to claim that you can tell the difference between an Ashkenazi Jew and any caucasion.
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Not never... I've never actually tried.
Hey Bob, is that mostly naked girl on that pole Persian or Arab? Is something I would never have any interest in saying whatsoever.
So yeah, seriously. Can't tell a Greek from an Italian either, they all look Mediterranean to me. It's not like I go thinking about it or practicing. I can pick out Asian eyes and African noses. Can't tell one Semite from another to save my life, wouldn't know where to start.
I'm suggesting that it's ridiculous for you to claim that you can tell the difference between an Ashkenazi Jew and any caucasion.
Yeah, you're right about that. But in my brain I don't think of them as any more genetically jewish than myself. If you look like me it is extremely unlikely that more than a small percentage of your ancestry comes from the area known for millenia as Palestine.
The more I think about it I think it's quite possible that there are only 3 mail races Caucasions, Asians, and Africans. Those 3 seem to be very recognizable with all others possibly being mixtures. It would made sense with the 3 coming from different corners of the world and meeting in the Mediterranean where neutral features and coloring reign supreme but please, if you'd like to think Semetic peoples have an origin all their own complete with their own God who calls them his "chosen" people that's fine with me, you might be right. I don't know.
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If there are no races, then there can be no racists.
Viola!
By that logic, if there is no God then there can be no theists.
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What you are describing is not race at all. Race, once again, is a social theory which attempts to ascribe biological causes to non-physical differences between peoples. You're only talking about superficial differences here.
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What you are describing is not race at all. Race, once again, is a social theory which attempts to ascribe biological causes to non-physical differences between peoples. You're only talking about superficial differences here.
And you've yet to come up with a decent word to use as an alternative so if I did things your way I would never talk about it at all. And....
I see no reason whatsoever that if groups of people can share the same genetic characteristics that effect physical traits they can't also possess the same genetic characteristics that effect brain function and chemistry (thoughts/behavior). I don't know that they do... but I don't know that they don't either and I'm pretty sure anyone currently alive that tells you he DOES know is a fucking liar.
I'm afraid dude that just like stephanie
entire perspective she's coming from is dogmatically retarded which means she can only reach an accurate conclusion by accident.
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wtf? uh.
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How about "body type" to describe what somebody's freaking body looks like?
And I've already shown in a previous post how culture (caused by physical environment) is a far more likely explanation for behavior than biology. But you can go on clinging to your ancient collectivist fallacies if you want.
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What you are describing is not race at all. Race, once again, is a social theory which attempts to ascribe biological causes to non-physical differences between peoples. You're only talking about superficial differences here.
Is there any such thing as a non-physical difference? Are you talking about supernatural mythological type things? I thought only the jews equated that with race.
And.. I know that no one can precisely define or scientifically demonstrate race to precise detail, not biologically and not "non-physically", but it exists.
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Intellect and culture have to do with individual choices. Unless you are arguing from a completely deterministic perspective, those are not physical traits.
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Intellect and culture have to do with individual choices. Unless you are arguing from a completely deterministic perspective, those are not physical traits.
Why can't intellect be influenced by genetics? Alcoholism and addiction are generally considered to be inheritable, as well as peacefulness and aggression.
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Intellect is distinct from intelligence. Intelligence MAY be influenced by genetics, although the degree to which it can be has never been discovered, and there is a school of thought that all humans share the same basic threshold for mental capacity which can be reached given proper nurturing (and excluding serious defects in the brain, which obviously can be passed on genetically).
But intellect is the practice of using one's mental capacity. That requires a conscious choice. Plenty of intelligent people refuse to think. That is also a choice. Likewise, someone who is born with aggressive tendencies can choose whether to act on them or not (unless, as I said, one is arguing from a deterministic perspective, which I do not).
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If there are no races, then there can be no racists.
Viola!
By that logic, if there is no God then there can be no theists.
Not ezactly because one of these things is not like the others. Theists, racists and races have tangible characteristics. "God" is unproven and an extremely abstract notion(depending on ones culture).
It's like saying there is no spaghetti because there is no flying spaghetti monster. We know spaghetti exists, some can only claim that FSM exists.
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Point taken. Here's a better analogy: everyone knows constellations exist, but some people believe that they cause things to happen here on earth. If I were to say "astrology is false" that would not mean there can be no astrologists.
constellations : astrology :: physical differences between peoples : racism
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Intellect and culture have to do with individual choices. Unless you are arguing from a completely deterministic perspective, those are not physical traits.
Unless you're arguing the existence of a soul the brain is a physical organ that determines our thoughts and actions through gazillions of electrical impulses and chemical reactions.
How about "body type" to describe what somebody's freaking body looks like?
And I've already shown in a previous post how culture (caused by physical environment) is a far more likely explanation for behavior than biology. But you can go on clinging to your ancient collectivist fallacies if you want.
Because 1: "body type" is not something that I relate with racial tendencies. Example, there are 5'0" 105lb black girls and also ginourmous ones.
2: Because the whole point of assigning a race to someone is sometimes so you don't have to describe him in complete detail. If I say something about my mexican neighbor and you assume that is the short guy with peppers in his front yard that washes his car far too often you'd be absolutely correct. It's a lot easier to just say mexican.
Did I mention they have parties where almost everyone drives a shiny as fuck 20 year old pickup and they park all over the lawn. Mexican.... can't define it physically or non-physically but I fucking know it when I see it. I got about a gazillion dolloars that says they're catholic.
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Point taken. Here's a better analogy: everyone knows constellations exist, but some people believe that they cause things to happen here on earth. If I were to say "astrology is false" that would not mean there can be no astrologists.
constellations : astrology :: physical differences between peoples : racism
I think you say this because you don't want to be a racist. You see all these characteristics between all these groups and you don't want to be racist so you invent this fiction that race never existed in the first place, that people might inherit genetic differences that change skin pigmentation but NEVER that could change thought or behavior because then you'd have to be the R word. That's the dogmatic part of your retarded. Nothing could ever be true that would mean you're a racist cuz you're just not.
You can't prove shit. You have no idea what genetic differences between races do that we haven't discovered. Sickle cell anemia, nappy hair, curry smell from the pores, a predisposition for watermelon? You don't fucking know. No one does.
I like the watermelon one. If people can inherit genetic traits can they effect the physical makeup of taste buds and the part of the brain that does some kind of thing involved with that to make the entirely random effect of making watermelon taste fucking awesome? You don't fucking know and neither does anyone else in the whole world. Anyone who says they do is a fool or a liar.
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(http://chattypics.com/download.php?file=0_4fbc0_8511ebf_Ljpg_lhjb7vry82.gif)
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(http://chattypics.com/download.php?file=0_4fbc0_8511ebf_Ljpg_lhjb7vry82.gif)
I know right :lol:
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All further replies from me in this thread will be in the form of animated gifs.
(http://chattypics.com/download.php?file=11hc9vr_3s2bff39du.gif)
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Intellect and culture have to do with individual choices. Unless you are arguing from a completely deterministic perspective, those are not physical traits.
Unless you're arguing the existence of a soul the brain is a physical organ that determines our thoughts and actions through gazillions of electrical impulses and chemical reactions.
You can call it a soul or not, but if all of our actions are the results of biochemical reactions, then there is no such thing as choice or free will at all. It is impossible to take a non-deterministic position without some sort of dualistic view of the human mind. Personally, I've never heard a completely naturalistic explanation for choice which makes any sense to me, which is why I am a theist. But there are are plenty of people who have tried to come up with one.
If this is going to be a free will vs. determinism discussion, I'm out. Either we have free choice - in which case, biological tendencies towards specific behaviors can be overcome by the human mind; or we don't, in which case it is only the fundamental forces of the Universe which are causing us to take our respective positions, and debate is just about the stupidest thing I can imagine doing with my time. Or, be fooled into thinking I am imagining, anyway.
Because 1: "body type" is not something that I relate with racial tendencies. Example, there are 5'0" 105lb black girls and also ginourmous ones.
But if you say someone has an "Asian body type" people will know what you mean. "Asian" works just fine as a categorical description without making any reference at all to the idea of race.
2: Because the whole point of assigning a race to someone is sometimes so you don't have to describe him in complete detail. If I say something about my mexican neighbor and you assume that is the short guy with peppers in his front yard that washes his car far too often you'd be absolutely correct. It's a lot easier to just say mexican.
Did I mention they have parties where almost everyone drives a shiny as fuck 20 year old pickup and they park all over the lawn. Mexican.... can't define it physically or non-physically but I fucking know it when I see it. I got about a gazillion dolloars that says they're catholic.
Okay, now you're describing culture, which again works as a categorical descriptor, but which has nothing to do with race at all, unless you are also saying that that culture has biological (as opposed to environmental) causes.
Also, there is a big difference between looking at the easily discernible qualities of an individual person and inferring the likelihood of their having a particular culture or nationality, and taking an individual about whom you know nothing except their culture or nationality and making assumptions about other things which are not evident, which is fallacious.
The difference is between class probability and case probability. It may be a fair statement to say "Asians are more likely than Italians to be bad drivers" (a statement about class probability), but it is not fair to take an individual from each group and say of them, individually, that the Asian is more likely to be the worse driver of the two (a statement about case probability). In the individual case, the statement is either true or false, not "more likely" or "less likely" to be true: and if you say one way or the other without actually examining the individual persons you are just making assumptions.
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You can call it a soul or not, but if all of our actions are the results of biochemical reactions, then there is no such thing as choice or free will at all.
Now we get to the meat of it. All SOULS (or whatever the fuck you want to call it) are the same when detached from their bodies. Ok sure, whatever if that makes you happy but don't ask me to agree with any of that shit you have no evidence whatsoever for.
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
Ok so I read more of your ridiculousness
biological tendencies towards specific behaviors can be overcome by the human mind;
No.... we can never ever agree definitively that the human mind is anything but the human brain until you can prove otherwise. It's interesting to me that you suggested there could be biological tendencies that would have to be overcome by the human mind. HAHA YOU"RE A RACIST
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Now we get to the meat of it. All SOULS (or whatever the fuck you want to call it) are the same when detached from their bodies. Ok sure, whatever if that makes you happy but don't ask me to agree with any of that shit you have no evidence whatsoever for.
So you are a determinist, then?
No.... we can never ever agree definitively that the human mind is anything but the human brain until you can prove otherwise. It's interesting to me that you suggested there could be biological tendencies that would have to be overcome by the human mind. HAHA YOU"RE A RACIST
I suspect you are deliberately misunderstanding my position at this point. The fact that you keep quoting me out of context and not addressing some rather important points I am making certainly doesn't indicate otherwise. I never once said that biological tendencies did not exist. I have only said that environment is more likely to effect certain behaviors than biology. Nurture rather than nature, in other words.
Furthermore, if biological tendencies towards certain behaviors do exist, but can be overcome, then they are NOT causal factors behind culture and society, and since race posits that they ARE, then someone who believes in the supremacy of mind over matter, so to speak, cannot be a racist.
But there is no proof that biology is the cause of any behavior. There is only a theory of nature over nurture - a theory just as unproven as its opposite. But as I previously demonstrated (and which you have yet even to challenge, much less refute) it is more likely that culture and biology are parallel effects of the same cause (environment), and that culture effects behavioral traits far more than biology does.
So ultimately, it gets down to whether or not people can choose (and hence be responsible for) their actions. Apparently, you say not. In which case, what's the point of arguing? It's not as if either of us chose our positions. It's just our respective genes that are making us take them, and essentially fooling us into thinking that we had anything whatsoever to do with it.
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If there are no races, then there can be no racists.
Viola!
......and then some people around here can start apologizing for the witchhunt
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Now we get to the meat of it. All SOULS (or whatever the fuck you want to call it) are the same when detached from their bodies. Ok sure, whatever if that makes you happy but don't ask me to agree with any of that shit you have no evidence whatsoever for.
So you are a determinist, then?
Did you just learn that word? Don't label me motherfucker.
I said I don't fucking know and neither do you. I sure as hell am not going to have a discussion about race and genetics that requires we take a human soul as a given. Then we're not talking about What IS but What IF.
I have only said that environment is more likely to effect certain behaviors than biology.
More likely.... More fucking likely? How can you use language like that but not admit, you don't know. And if you don't know than why would you take any firm position other than "I don't know" cuz motherfucker.... You don't know.
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
Let me tell you a true story about my father in law. He was a prick, he had a stroke, now he's a swell motherfucker. Did that stroke effect his eternal soul? Doubtful. It changed his brain in a physical way and it effected some very fundamental things about his thought process and resulting behavior. He is a different person.
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
if biological tendencies towards certain behaviors do exist
So.... you admit here that biological tendencies towards certain behaviors might exist. You mean you don't know? Why... If you think biological tendencies might exist and agree that biological tendencies would be, if they exist, caused by genetics, would you EVER some around here talking about RACE DOES NOT EXIST and I'm so fucking sure of it I'm gonna run around telling people to stop using that word for any purpose whatsoever when you know that you don't fucking know.
I suspect you are deliberately misunderstanding my position at this point. The fact that you keep quoting me out of context and not addressing some rather important points I am making certainly doesn't indicate otherwise.
That haha you're a racist bit was deliberate trolling yes. You're points are about sociology (not a science) and the human mind (not a physical brain that can be observed with eyeballs and instruments). Which have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the question.... Can genetics affect behavior? That's the ultimate disagreement here. It useless to point out that OTHER things can ALSO effect behavior. We can take that as a given and move on to Can genetics affect behavior?
You don't answer my important questions either.
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
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I mean fucking really dude..........
How can you go on about how the brain causing thoughts and behaviors is "just a theory" that you won't accept because it's just a theory and then expect me to just go along with the idea that it's really some invisible thing that no one has ever proven exists at all but THAT.... THAT we're supposed to just assume as fact and apply it to the discussion.
WTF?!? Are you a Baptist? You act like a fucking Baptist.
If your mind is not the brain assumption is also, just a theory then...... You don't fucking know! Why is it so hard to get a human being to admit he does not know? Half the people in the world you can't believe a damn thing they say because they will not under any circumstances admit that they just don't fucking know. You don't know dude.... no one does. And unless you can recognize that you don't know something, you don't know shit about anything. Learn to admit you don't know. AND Get the fuck out of people's threads telling them what words they can use and what they can't when YOU DON"T KNOW. Neither do I... Nothing shameful about not knowing. All kinds of shameful about thinking that you do.
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So you are a determinist, then?
Did you just learn that word? Don't label me motherfucker.
I didn't label you. I asked you a question. Your reaction was irrational and juvenile. That's telling, as well as amusing.
I said I don't fucking know and neither do you. I sure as hell am not going to have a discussion about race and genetics that requires we take a human soul as a given. Then we're not talking about What IS but What IF.
Of course we don't know. It's a matter of belief. Nor does this discussion require that we take such a thing as a given - but you have to take either one side or the other. Either take a monist position on the human mind, in which case there is no such thing as free choice (which is the only position that can consistently be taken by someone arguing for biological causality), or take a dualist position, which makes biology subordinate to the mind, and opens biological causality to question.
You've effectively already taken the former position. I'm just asking you to admit it.
More likely.... More fucking likely? How can you use language like that but not admit, you don't know. And if you don't know than why would you take any firm position other than "I don't know" cuz motherfucker.... You don't know.
Wow, you're really desperate to keep your strawman erect here, aren't you? I NEVER said I knew. I only said that environment was a more likely cause than biology. But of course it's so hard to address my actual argument, isn't it?
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
Edited out your stuttering.
I already said they could, and if you were even the slightest bit interested in addressing my points you would have maybe quoted one of the times that I did so and addressed the argument I am actually making instead of deliberately misunderstanding me. But the latter is far more convenient, and race does seem to be a theory for the intellectually lazy, so I'm not surprised.
So.... you admit here that biological tendencies towards certain behaviors might exist. You mean you don't know? Why... If you think biological tendencies might exist and agree that biological tendencies would be, if they exist, caused by genetics, would you EVER some around here talking about RACE DOES NOT EXIST and I'm so fucking sure of it I'm gonna run around telling people to stop using that word for any purpose whatsoever when you know that you don't fucking know.
Trying to parse your childishly emotional tirade here... and I THINK you're saying that admitting that biological tendencies towards certain behaviors exist is an admission that race exists.
It's not. As I have been saying all along, the theory of race asserts biological tendencies towards certain behaviors as the cause of cultural differences between peoples, whereas I have been maintaining that physical and cultural differences between peoples are parallel effects of environmental causes. And if you weren't so busy clinging to your misrepresentation of my argument, you might have noticed the fact.
I suspect you are deliberately misunderstanding my position at this point. The fact that you keep quoting me out of context and not addressing some rather important points I am making certainly doesn't indicate otherwise.
Can genetics affect behavior? That's the ultimate disagreement here.
No it isn't. I have never claimed it hasn't. I have only claimed that (1) genetic causes for individual behavior do not, by themselves, constitute a theory of race, and (2) that genetic causes for behavior are less likely to effect things like evident intelligence and culture than environmental causes.
You don't answer my important questions either.
Which one? You mean the one that you're asking for the first time here about genetics affecting behavior, which after re-reading all of my posts I can definitively say I have never claimed to be false?
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too hard to quote on the phone.. My reaction was not juvenile.... It was funny.
on a deeper level it was an explanation that it doesn't matter if I believe in a soul. It is not relevant to the conversation. Whether I believe all actions are irrevocably set by biology is not relevanrelevantt. All that matters is can biology have an influence? So.... Don't label me motherfucker... Did you just learn that word? Maybe it's not as simple as that
And... ohhhh. We're talking about belief then. You're gonna come around telling people what words they can use because you.....believe.... It is that way in your metaphysical way.
Nothing more to say. You have a religious belief that biology doesn't affect behavior..... Well I i knew that. That's why I used the word dogma in relation to your retardedeness. I don't share that religious belief and see no reason to change MY vocabulary to suit YOUR voodoo. I think is indefensibly arrogant of you to jump in to this thread telling people what words they can use basd o what boil down to the tenets of your faith. And... You're a fucking moron.
I'm told I sounded angry in this mornings posts. This isn't me angry, for the record.
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If you had originally come and stated your metaphysical belief that people are more than the human body and that invisible part is without race... I would have been inclined to agree.
I also would have said it has no effect whatsoever on the biological argument. That even if that were proven conclusively it does not mean that to some people watermelon doesn't just taste better. I hate tomatoes.
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But the point I am trying to make (as far as metaphysics goes) is that one cannot argue for biological causality without implying determinism, nor argue for choice without opening the issue of biological causality to question. And once that question is on the table, then I repeat my assertion that environment is a more likely cause than biology for group behavior. Nurture over nature, in short.
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But the point I am trying to make (as far as metaphysics goes)
aAnd the point I'm trying to make is if metaphysics is at all involved than you might have an idea but you don't know shit so stop acting like it. Telling a board full of atheists to stop using an entire word and not give them a replacement which essentially means to abandon a gazillion year old concept over your hunch is completely fucking retarded. AND be honest up front that you're talking about a spiritual belief, NOT a scientifically observable fact.
Interestingly.... At The School of Metaphysics they say that the 3 races were founded by 3 different alien races. That those alien races are very keen on keeping them seperate because they are custom made for them to inhabit and they don't want us fucking them up by making mix-breeds that are not as specialized for their demonic possession pleasure. INTERGALACTIC RACE WARS!
You don't fucking know.
I figure if they're right I'm simply not in the fight, I'm a NAP man now. Just like the Bible... If the old testament god is GOD... I'm not his man. (yes, this is very relevant to how I feel about people who choose to be his man).
I repeat my assertion that environment is a more likely cause than biology for group behavior.
You keep saying more likely..... can I get a yes or no?
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
When you do things you wouldn't normally do w/o the chance of having sex, is that your brain or your mind (those are acceptable words? brain vs. mind?)?
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If there are no races, then there can be no racists.
Viola!
......and then some people around here can start apologizing for the witchhunt
Ain't likely, the mental trophy for snagging the witch is to be cherished.
I had to stop reading the Ecolitan/MacFall debate because it's just too much to read. But I have a question that hopefully will get addressed...
What's the end result? Lets suppose racism is finally vanquished, what is the end result? Socially & culturally, what real impacts can we look forward to?
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What's the end result? Lets suppose racism is finally vanquished, what is the end result? Socially & culturally, what real impacts can we look forward to?
I have no agenda. Most of the time when I get into something like this it's merely to point out that X is not true.
Someone said X. X isn't true. Truth is my agenda. I don't go around thinking about race and racism. It's not a big deal for me.
I'm not trying to find a racist, no witchhunt here. I'll gladly volunteer to BE the racist, I gave plenty of ammunition for that. I went out of my way to provide ammunition for that.
I think that Macfall believes in normal stereotypes and needs dearly to adopt a philosophy that means he can have those stereotypes and it not be labeled as racist. I think he's SOL. If I have an agenda it's to create an environment where Macfall doesn't have to feel guilty for being who he is and can grow to be more honest with himself and the world as a result.
But to stay on point......
All this bullshit about it is impossible for men/women white/black greeneye/blueeye to also have other genetic traits that tend towards appearing in tandem with those other traits that might effect brain chemistry and function (thoughts/behavior) is completely rediculous.
If black people can have a higher chance of sickle cell anemia they can also have a higher chance of (insert genetically influenced personality trait here). Maybe they don't. But no one knows. It might be knowable, but currently no one knows. Anyone who says they do is a moron or a liar.
AND men/women absolutely positively without a doubt have scientifically measurable differences in body chemistry that is known to influence behavior PERIOD. Sure there are exceptions, but there's also a rule. Stephanie is a complete fucking imbecile if she doesn't recognize that and therefore everything she ever says that can't be independently verified is useless. She can only come to a correct conclusion by accident cuz she's blinded by her silly dogma.
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What's the end result? Lets suppose racism is finally vanquished, what is the end result? Socially & culturally, what real impacts can we look forward to?
I think that Macfall believes in normal stereotypes and needs dearly to adopt a philosophy that means he can have those stereotypes and it not be labeled as racist. I think he's SOL. If I have an agenda it's to create an environment where Macfall doesn't have to feel guilty for being who he is and can grow to be more honest with himself and the world as a result.
I think you may be right about that. If it doesn't apply to MacFall it surely does fit someone somewhere.
You've never come across as racist to me and nothing I wrote was directed at you. The debate of whether or not races exist is pointless. It doesn't affect the outcome of social behavior based on differences in appearance and/or culture.
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What's the end result? Lets suppose racism is finally vanquished, what is the end result? Socially & culturally, what real impacts can we look forward to?
I think that Macfall believes in normal stereotypes and needs dearly to adopt a philosophy that means he can have those stereotypes and it not be labeled as racist. I think he's SOL. If I have an agenda it's to create an environment where Macfall doesn't have to feel guilty for being who he is and can grow to be more honest with himself and the world as a result.
I think you may be right about that. If it doesn't apply to MacFall it surely does fit someone somewhere.
You've never come across as racist to me and nothing I wrote was directed at you. The debate of whether or not races exist is pointless. It doesn't affect the outcome of social behavior based on differences in appearance and/or culture.
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone claim that race does not exist. If believing that some racial stereotypes are true most of the time = racist than I AM. Unless of course Macfall is right and they are cultural stereotypes because genetics related to race can never ever for any reason have any effect on thoughts and behavior whatsoever. Then I'm a culturalist. But THAT is the argument of a complete fucking moron.
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But to stay on point......
nigga......
THAT particular fuckin train done left the station long time ago.......
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YOU FUCKING SAXON
no response, so
i'll put it another way
SAXON MY BIG RED CCOCK
(''why's it red, drag?'')
FROM SLAPPING YOUR MOTHER REPEATEDLY IN THE FUCKING FACE W/ IT
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I was supposed to respond? :( I can not define saxon.
Here's the response I'm looking for from Ol' boy that disappeared rather than answer simple yes,no questions cuz he fears the truth of what he has to say.
So can biochemical reactions be subject to genetics?
When you do things you wouldn't normally do w/o the chance of having sex, is that your brain or your mind (those are acceptable words? brain vs. mind?)?
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One of the most alarming repercussions, if it does in fact turn out that races do not exist, is that the entire porn world will have to find ways to reclassify the "Interracial" category of it's offerings.
On the topic of unanswered questions, what about mine? The end result of racism being done away with completely/what changes will result?
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SAXON MY BIG RED COCK
YOU MEAN THIN AND PALE YOU SAXON FUCK.
GO EAT SOME BANGERS AND MASH HAGGIS WITH RUNNY CHEESE YOU DEGENERATE LOW END OF THE GENE POOL ONLY 3/4 HUMAN SAXON FILTH.
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One of the most alarming repercussions, if it does in fact turn out that races do not exist, is that the entire porn world will have to find ways to reclassify the "Interracial" category of it's offerings.
On the topic of unanswered questions, what about mine? The end result of racism being done away with completely/what changes will result?
I don't see it happening til we all fuck each other brown. Comedians will have to be funnier. People will more readily accept that very low income small-time thugs choose to be so?
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Wiggers.
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I was supposed to respond?
MORON
note the QUOTED dickhole i responded to......
was it YOU?
no
it wasn't
please try to keep up mr. bond
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SAXON MY BIG RED COCK
YOU MEAN THIN AND PALE YOU SAXON FUCK.
GO EAT SOME BANGERS AND MASH HAGGIS WITH RUNNY CHEESE YOU DEGENERATE LOW END OF THE GENE POOL ONLY 3/4 HUMAN SAXON FILTH.
well shit......
you are the omnipresent oaf here.........with your curly shoes & bells on your hat,
YOU JABBA-THE-FUCKING-HUT, WANNA-BE ''MOVIE DIRECTOR'' ****sorry.........coughing up fritos & red wine as i write this*********
RACOON-EYED, GUNS-MAKE-UP-FOR-MY-SHORT-FAT-COCK, SIT-ON-MY-ASS-ALL-DAY & WONDER WHY I WEIGH 480 POUNDS, TRAILER-LIVIN (yeah....we all seen it.......my pantry is bigger than your living room), CAT-LICKING, HAVE-GUNS-IN-ALL-MY-PHOTOS---CUZ-IT-MAKES-ME-LOOK-LIKE-A-BADASS, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wait for it>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D-O-U-C-H-E-B-A-G
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wow
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well shit......
you are the omnipresent oaf here.........with your curly shoes & bells on your hat,
YOU JABBA-THE-FUCKING-HUT, WANNA-BE ''MOVIE DIRECTOR'' ****sorry.........coughing up fritos & red wine as i write this*********
RACOON-EYED, GUNS-MAKE-UP-FOR-MY-SHORT-FAT-COCK, SIT-ON-MY-ASS-ALL-DAY & WONDER WHY I WEIGH 480 POUNDS, TRAILER-LIVIN (yeah....we all seen it.......my pantry is bigger than your living room), CAT-LICKING, HAVE-GUNS-IN-ALL-MY-PHOTOS---CUZ-IT-MAKES-ME-LOOK-LIKE-A-BADASS, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wait for it>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D-O-U-C-H-E-B-A-G
Now you're getting personal. Are you even a Saxon?
Also, your negative opinions I'll gladly wear as a badge of honor.
P.S. - My family is Welsh and Northern Italian and just about 100% Saxon you fucking retard. Get the joke next time. Start by having two synapses to rub together.
INSERT COIN
EDIT: Now I know what you really think of me. Kinda gives me an advantage.
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nigga
i'm rambo to your brian dennehy
''you drew 1st blood'' so.............(cuz i don't play nice when people are cunts w/ me),
you better be like Richard Crenna says & bring a big supply of body bags
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nigga
i'm rambo to your brian dennehy
''you drew 1st blood'' so.............(cuz i don't play nice when people are cunts w/ me),
you better be like Richard Crenna says & bring a big supply of body bags
Only one body bag is necessary, actually. I'm gonna politely ask you right now not to put me into a position where I am tempted to use it.
Your next post would be rather carefully thought out if I were you. Think before you hit post.
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Only one body bag is necessary, actually. I'm gonna politely ask you right now not to put me into a position where I am tempted to use it.
Your next post would be rather carefully thought out if I were you. Think before you hit post.
maybe you should employ your own advice next time, before you start poking bears
francis
oh yeah, i almost forgot......
haven't psychos been banned from here after using threatening language??????????
you are treading in rob jacobs territory, boy-o...........
howz that workin out for ya?
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.[youtube]LrllCZw8jiM[/youtube]
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.[youtube]LrllCZw8jiM[/youtube]
That's too funny!
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[youtube]RovF1zsDoeM[/youtube]
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Only one body bag is necessary, actually. I'm gonna politely ask you right now not to put me into a position where I am tempted to use it.
Your next post would be rather carefully thought out if I were you. Think before you hit post.
maybe you should employ your own advice next time, before you start poking bears
francis
oh yeah, i almost forgot......
haven't psychos been banned from here after using threatening language??????????
you are treading in rob jacobs territory, boy-o...........
howz that workin out for ya?
Listen ya little cuntrag, You don't even know the meaning of "Poking the bear"
I accused you of being a Saxon. You're going full retard right now. Never go full retard.
You then chose to use your obviously encyclopedic and rather stalkery knowledge of my personal life to get about as nasty and cruel as anyone I've seen post on this board, because you've always been a second stringer troll on the BBS who couldn't rile up enough attention to compete with the big boys. Congrats, you've now drawn my attention. Now you're one of the big boys, too. Sorta.
I'd go into some personal stuff here about you but shit, I never cared enough about you to notice and you're too much of an empty suit internet coward to talk about your real life anyhow so there's little ammo.
This is really simple - By the TOS of the BBS, I have more than enough right to ban you for your constant racist comments alone. The list is just about never ending of shit that comes out of your limpdick breath mouth hole that could get you drummed out.
Also, you were the person who dropped "Body bags" - You made the threat. I just explained the relative power disparity between us and the silliness of you making threats.
Your next post will be your last opportunity to back the fuck off. I don't even want an apology. Just back the fuck off or you're done. There won't be any epic fun where I spend any time tearing you to pieces like I've done with every first stringer troll here. You're the cut rate leftovers who can't even form a complete sentence and has nothing to say but "nigga". You're a mosquito.
So take this as your last chance to back off or your last chance to call me an Internet Tough Guy or call me fat or whatever. If you decide to go with the later, at least put some effort into it.
You know, something I can print out and stick on the fridge next to the crayon drawings.
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I fuckin love this place
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I fuckin love this place
Sorry for the threadshit. It'll be over soon.
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Thread died to it's original purpose when Macfall tucked tail. I don't trip about that anyway. You know dragline just won a little bit. It was his best bit of work ever and yeah... he had to resort to unsavory tactics and that reflects on him, but you rolled over like a surrender monkey. Fuck the ToS, you can think before you hit post anywhere on the internet.
I meant it. I fuckin love this place.
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You know dragline just won a little bit. It was his best bit of work ever and yeah... he had to resort to unsavory tactics and that reflects on him, but you rolled over like a surrender monkey. Fuck the ToS, you can think before you hit post anywhere on the internet.
Won what? I was making jokes about Saxons and he gets all nasty with me and makes personal attacks? What was there to win? Being cruel for no reason?
What do you mean rolled over? What do you mean surrender monkey?
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I fuckin love this place
Me too.
Problem is, I cant find anyone worth arguing with since they showed Avshae the door. I sincerely hated that prick. I cant think of anyone I wanna internet-fight with since he's been gone.
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I fuckin love this place
Me too.
Problem is, I cant find anyone worth arguing with since they showed Avshae the door. I sincerely hated that prick. I cant think of anyone I wanna internet-fight with since he's been gone.
They? I was the one who banned him and deleted his shit, lol.
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I fuckin love this place
Me too.
Problem is, I cant find anyone worth arguing with since they showed Avshae the door. I sincerely hated that prick. I cant think of anyone I wanna internet-fight with since he's been gone.
They? I was the one who banned him and deleted his shit, lol.
Haa
Thats right, it was you. I remember someone saying the BBS jumped the shark when you did that. I dont think I ever thanked you for that.
It was such sweet sorrow to see him go. Fun to argue with, but too big an asshole to be worth keeping him around.
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Won what? I was making jokes about Saxons and he gets all nasty with me and makes personal attacks? What was there to win? Being cruel for no reason?
What do you mean rolled over? What do you mean surrender monkey?
Cruel for his own entertainment purposes. Angry Shaw is entertaining.
You gave him what he wanted, instantly. I was entertained.
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Cruel for his own entertainment purposes. Angry Shaw is entertaining.
You gave him what he wanted, instantly. I was entertained.
I see. So he won because saying cruel things to people and having them be upset by it is entertaining.
Got it. So what you're saying is that people should just take whatever is thrown at them and take it like a bitch because if they respond to cruelty then they're suckers.
Understood.
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There. Fuck it. It was worth it.
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There. Fuck it. It was worth it.
8)
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Cruel for his own entertainment purposes. Angry Shaw is entertaining.
You gave him what he wanted, instantly. I was entertained.
I see. So he won because saying cruel things to people and having them be upset by it is entertaining.
Got it. So what you're saying is that people should just take whatever is thrown at them and take it like a bitch because if they respond to cruelty then they're suckers.
Understood.
Sometimes
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Sometimes
Uh huh. Well you've got another nasty act to find humor in now. Racist fucker's had it coming for a long time anyhow.
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There. Fuck it. It was worth it.
Now I won :P You're my favorite FTL overlord but you ban an awful lot of people for fucking w/ YOU. Coincidence that they cross that bannination line with YOU?
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There. Fuck it. It was worth it.
Now I won :P You're my favorite FTL overlord but you ban an awful lot of people for fucking w/ YOU. Coincidence that they cross that bannination line with YOU?
Dude, do you know how many people I've banned apart from spammers?
How many would constitute "An awful lot" ?
Give you a hint, it's less than five.
And the only ones who directly fucked with me are this one and Libman, and I wasn't even the person to originally ban Libman, I just received the OK to reban him from Ian after one of his outbursts.
The reputation is often bigger than the man, as they say. I almost never ban regular users. Other mods and former mods can attest to this.
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And the only ones who directly fucked with me are this one and Libman, and I wasn't even the person to originally ban Libman, I just received the OK to reban him from Ian after one of his outbursts.
I figure 2 (apart from spammers) is a lot. If it's less than 5 than at least 50% of your bans are directly related to interaction with you. You are not 50% of the people on this forum so......
You are angry and you would not have banned dragline for saying those same things to me.
Don't you know that was a humorous rant? With all the asterisks and stuff, he made timing and inflection if only just by encouraging the reader to add his own. It was good work. An obvious performance piece that no one but you took seriously... I didn't anyway. An obviously successful one.
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And the only ones who directly fucked with me are this one and Libman, and I wasn't even the person to originally ban Libman, I just received the OK to reban him from Ian after one of his outbursts.
I figure 2 (apart from spammers) is a lot. If it's less than 5 than at least 50% of your bans are directly related to interaction with you. You are not 50% of the people on this forum so......
Uh huh, your math is broken. It's been almost four years that I've been a mod. Two assholes in four years over tens of thousands of posts.
Also, Riddler has been chucking racial epithets forever. Tell me he wouldn't have been banned anywhere else. Spare me man.
For whatever reason there are people on the BBS that think I'm some sort of tough guy. It's a weird thing to think because I've never fed into it and people who know me IRL know that I'm a fairly mellow dude who has maybe a bit of an edge and a low tolerance for stupidity.
<<<Not ever playing a tough guy and not ever trying to come off as one.
As a matter of fact I think I tolerate abuse for far longer than most people would before taking any action. I've been told this by more than one other mod.
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Don't you know that was a humorous rant? With all the asterisks and stuff, he made timing and inflection if only just by encouraging the reader to add his own. It was good work. An obvious performance piece that no one but you took seriously... I didn't anyway. An obviously successful one.
Uh huh. He talked about my weight, he talked about specifics about my face, he talked about specifics (Although incorrect) about my home, he talked about my career and mocked it, the thing people here know is my one true passion in life*.
Those were personal attacks. If someone pointed out very specific things about you, you'd react the same way.
It wasn't a joke, and his responses afterward were supportive of that.
"You just can't take a joke" is the parting shot of a person who's gone too far and knows it and can't defend themselves.
I'm done talking about this now.
*Not personal relationship-wise
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No doubt he would have been banned anywhere else long ago. I think my math is good.
4 years... <=4 bans. 50% of them directly related to their interaction you. You being less than a very small % of total members. That makes you like 1500 times more likely to enter into a conversation that results in banning than the rest of we trolls. And he wasn't being racist this time. He was being funny (yes that was funny) at your expense.
:( I really expected you to see that by now. Of course he couldn't say that shit in the real world unless he was on a stage at a roast, and he wouldn't. But this ain't the real world. It's the FTL BBS and you got trolled and showed your ass. You need a little Fleetwood Mac for your Saturday afternoon and who's gonna bring it now?
Those were personal attacks. If someone pointed out very specific things about you, you'd react the same way.
Yes but I'm a well-known crazy motherfucker who some days can't calm himself the fuck down enough to interact in the real world.
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No doubt he would have been banned anywhere else long ago. I think my math is good.
4 years... <=4 bans. 50% of them directly related to their interaction you. You being less than a very small % of total members. That makes you like 1500 times more likely to enter into a conversation that results in banning than the rest of we trolls. And he wasn't being racist this time. He was being funny (yes that was funny) at your expense.
:( I really expected you to see that by now. Of course he couldn't say that shit in the real world unless he was on a stage at a roast, and he wouldn't. But this ain't the real world. It's the FTL BBS and you got trolled and showed your ass. You need a little Fleetwood Mac for your Saturday afternoon and who's gonna bring it now?
Yeah I get it, everyone is ever so above it all until it's directed at them. I'm just a puss, got it.
This is why I spend most of my time on FB and + now. This is why EVERYONE spends most of their time on FB and + now.
You're gonna keep tugging my chain as long as I keep replying, so I'll give you some free time to do something more productive now by walking away.
Feel free to keep bagging on me. Maybe some day you'll post something about your personal life and have someone shit all over it.
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:? I post shit about my real life all the time and not just the shit I think makes me look good. I HAVE had people shit all over it both intentionally and unintentionally.
My complete impatience with Rillion and Dio for exactly that reason appears to me directly correlational to me getting much less friendly attention and generally ignored most of the time by most people here. You can compare yourself to me if you like...
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I saw that ban coming, but don't agree with it. For many reasons that Ecolitan listed, but mostly because the racism thing shouldn't be figured in at all. If the mods wanted to ban dragline for racism it should have been done under those circumstances, absolutely not as a result of pissing off a mod. Dragline's use of "nigga" being the grounds for a ban? On this forum?
Also, "stalking" is a poor choice of words. When you're open with facts about your life online and people remember those facts, that ain't stalking. If those details about your life are recalled in a positive light, that's usually consider flattering. If I missed a detail or two in there regarding something Shaw hadn't shared openly and somehow dragline knew about, then I'm wrong.
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I can't believe it happened. I hated that motherfucker but like Anton Lavay said: He didn't so much waste his account as take full advantage of it's inevitable bannination. Coolest thing he ever did here.
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I don't really see the point. I'm seeing posts by Riddler, which is Dragline as far as I know. What's he missing? An avatar or messaging privileges?
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When he got banned his handle reverted to his account name. Those aren't new posts. He can read this thread but he's gonna need TOR to post. Or he can give Ian some money.
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I did think Dragline was kidding around with you though John. I agree he got pretty personal...
I might not have read the thread that closely, but I thought he admitted to being drunk off his ass when he was posting.
I must say he has a sense of humor that I find refreshing on this board. He seems more like a guy I'd want to get a buzz on with than most I read here.
I didn't even know what the fuck a saxon was and wasn't interested enough to even google it.
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When he got banned his handle reverted to his account name. Those aren't new posts. He can read this thread but he's gonna need TOR to post. Or he can give Ian some money.
Well that sucks. Doubt Ian will bring him back if he's told the reason for banning was "racism".
I thought the Saxon stuff was a hoot and was enjoying Shaw's playful trolling of the thread, something I hadn't seen much of lately.
I'm against banning at all unless it's a result of extreme shitheadedness, something that didn't happen in this thread.
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BJ was banned. Anything could happen.
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BJ is a member of the Inner Circle though.
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I'm surprised it took this long for Dragline to get his ass booted.
When he got banned his handle reverted to his account name. Those aren't new posts. He can read this thread but he's gonna need TOR to post. Or he can give Ian some money.
If/when he gets out of prison.
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There is no inner circle.
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Hello everyone, I'm ever so sorry for my bad behavior.
I have been a rapscallion and I regret it.
Again, my ever humble apologies.
Sincerely, the mod who just rebanned my stupid ass.
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Fucking un-ignored piece of shit...fixed.
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Okay, we're getting played by this soap opera. I could watch politics on tv.
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<babalugatz> anyways dude.........i know my people need me on that BBS......so tell shaw i said ize sorry.......w/ certain caveats
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So what's the plan? Wait until this blows over?
For those of us who like the guy, having him removed is pretty shitty - like having a "friend" taken away (quotes because online "friends" are different than IRL ones, but good nonetheless).
Ecolitan is right, if he had targeted any regular member on here he'd still be a member (WTFK). So it would seem that if this ban stands, all future insults between members will result in more bans. Classy.
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I thought about giving Ian 50 bucks for "advertising" and see if that works. Then I thought: Ian is in jail.... Fuck.
So we're stuck with it. The unwritten ToS now states that racism is almost always allowed and you can say just about anything you want to anyone except John Shaw who will ban you if you hurt his feelings.
Most will forget. It will color my interactions until the end of time or until something happens to imply to me things are now different. I'm not holding my breath.
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<babalugatz> anyways dude.........i know my people need me on that BBS......so tell shaw i said ize sorry.......w/ certain caveats
Maybe later. We'd have to talk first.
Also, he wouldn't be apologizing if he were only "joking", would he?
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So he has to pay a fine to come back ?
If he doesnt pay does he go to the rape cage ?
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Back to the original topic..
Look at this video and you will see the extremes to which some people will go to portray black yutes in a not-so-positive light. Here you will see the conspiracy revealed.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHyug2PvpB8[/youtube]
Someone took this video and played it backwards, making it seem like these young people were actually removing items from the shelves, when in actuality the opposite is true! These young people were doing nothing but returning items that some other young persons stole in one of their "flash mob" events, like the kind white youth are prone to organizing.
Disgusting! Sorry to have to use such enthused phrasing, but that's just how I feel.
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:lol:
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Since the other thread is locked...
(can't quote cause my bracket key isn't working)
janitor:
I've yet to see, ever once, an intelligent statement about how and why a person does not like african americans. All buttoned up proper. (here I mean) I've seen it elsewhere, sure. Places like StormFront where they spend all day explaining the finer points of bigotry. No, all they do is crash around throwing N-bombs like morons. So it'll say something different and hilarious, and if they're drunk and stupid enough, it'll look like they're saying they hate brushing their teeth.
Y'know, if a dude came here and made that intelligent post, I'd let it stand unmolested so people could debate him. Just for the record.
***
This isn't the place for a post like that, Stormfront and similar forums are. Of everyone I know (from racist skins to asians to hispanics to anti-racist skins and yes, even blacks) none of them would claim to hating "african-americans". However, someone in all those groups absolutely have a problem with ghetto/thug culture. This is why I keep saying that this whole emotional fervor over the boogey man "racism" is pointless.
Decades ago, yes, a debate on pure race-based hatred would have been pertinent. Today though? Not seeing the point. A better discussion (and one that would seem to be more helpful in the desired outcome to better today's situation many black folks find themselves in) would focus on the incredible violence blacks do to one another, and their *collective failure in too many normal situations that other ethnic groups succeed in.
When is the last time you heard of a Klan member doing anything to blacks? ..last time a mob of rednecks targeted blacks? etc.
*collective - yes. The term fits in discussions about race. Those who would never say "they have a problem" are they very same who are the first to say "they need to be protected".
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I'll bite. That was some racist motherfucking bullshit :) (Is my native vernacular better with smilies?)
Why black people are killing each other? That's what you pick?
Racism isn't about hatred anymore. That's such a tiny amount of people. They will die soon and they can't internets as well anyway.
Honestly I don't know what it's about now. I don't feel like I encounter it much at all.
Racism is about thinking brown people have different inalienable rights ! That's what the fuck it is.
It's about even if you DO have a true preference for people who are more like you or specifically dislike a trait that really is more common among a certain demographic that you understand that ALL MEN are created equal w/ inalienable rights etc.....
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My grandma hated Germans.
She was a Pole.
Is that racist?
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By my definition it sure is.
Is that so wrong?
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My grandma hated Germans.
She was a Pole.
Is that racist?
Yeah,
But its certainly understandishable.
BTW, have you seen the new Polish army helmets?
(http://www.ludditemachine.org/blog/uploaded_images/buckethead-755751.jpg)
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BTW, have you seen the new Polish army helmets?
Reported.
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Well, I was on my way to this gay Gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I suddenly thought, "Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish. I think I'll kill the Fuhrer." Who's with me?
-River Song