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Author Topic: Questions for the believers  (Read 16488 times)

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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2010, 04:09:27 PM »

as  for string theory

"I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. " - Richard Feynman, a quantum physicist
I agree.  Quantum mechanics is the thing I hated most in physics and advanced chemistry.  It can be fun to wonder about though, but it is pretty wack.
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theCelestrian

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2010, 05:16:37 PM »

Celestrians point seemed to be, that if someone said to you that:

"String Theory G-d is nutty cult crap for physicists believers.  I don't buy it."

That it wouldn't be constitute a very good argument.

Score++ for you.  This is the main thrust, but it also goes beyond that which I'll cover in your secondary point.

And that non believers in this thread generally haven't just said "religion is stupid/for stupid people", but have actually tried to engage the religious beliefs with a bit of depth and understanding.

And that it would be nice if it worked both ways.

You touch the other point here, and part of it the response the such a statement from the non-religious would receive.  The typical response to "G-d is wacky crap," is generally one of (understandable) anger and indignation for the Ad Hominem based [counter]argument.

My point was that these statements seem to be the very kinds of arguments that I have often heard rejected by the religious as overtly pernicious and off-point, and were the positions reversed - the individuals making these statements might not take too kindly to them.

Saying that,
You're right that its not proven, but it doesn't mean that it can't be, and that there isn't interesting work being done in String theory.

Although I'm not sure Celestrian was making a point beyond this.

Nope - like my position on God, I make no statements of fact concerning the validity of String Theory, merely was used to point out another potential viewpoint held by some, that "another brick" in their wall of faith was the fact that despite all of the things/processes that science claims to have solved, there are still "gaps" in our understanding (ex. pre-big bang) - hence the "God of the Gaps" position.

For the record, as a Strong Agnostic, my position is I have no position, but will gladly follow anyone down the path of exploration to determine what my position might be.

There was theory for black holes long before any physical evidence.

Absolutely, and this does touch an interesting consequent; there is an ultimate, factual answering the existence or lack thereof of God; either He/She/It exists or He/She/It doesn't.
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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2010, 05:22:41 PM »

"Nope - like my position on God, I make no statements of fact concerning the validity of String Theory, merely was used to point out another potential viewpoint held by some, that "another brick" in their wall of faith was the fact that despite all of the things/processes that science claims to have solved, there are still "gaps" in our understanding (ex. pre-big bang) - hence the "God of the Gaps" position."

I urge you when you free time to watch the video posted on the Universe is flat and came out of "nothing".  An interesting perspective you should view.  Seems more believable than string theory.  The guy talks about string theory too.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2010, 06:24:42 PM »



Absolutely, and this does touch an interesting consequent; there is an ultimate, factual answering the existence or lack thereof of God; either He/She/It exists or He/She/It doesn't.

What makes you think that there's only one god though?
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theCelestrian

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2010, 06:32:29 PM »



Absolutely, and this does touch an interesting consequent; there is an ultimate, factual answering the existence or lack thereof of God; either He/She/It exists or He/She/It doesn't.

What makes you think that there's only one god though?

Excellent point.  Merely because it is the most talked about model of theism in our contemporary context.  Feel free to replace singular pronouns with plural ones if it suits your purposes better. :)
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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2010, 11:08:31 PM »

I urge you when you free time to watch the video posted on the Universe is flat and came out of "nothing".  An interesting perspective you should view.  Seems more believable than string theory.  The guy talks about string theory too.

I will do so now and respond accordingly, even if just to let you know my initial impressions.



edit:  I just finished watching it - very interesting and compelling.  Let me think on it overnight before providing more detail on my impressions in its thread.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 12:16:02 AM by theCelestrian »
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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2010, 12:09:04 AM »

I urge you when you free time to watch the video posted on the Universe is flat and came out of "nothing".  An interesting perspective you should view.  Seems more believable than string theory.  The guy talks about string theory too.

I will do so now and respond accordingly, even if just to let you know my initial impressions.

I liked the video. It provided a new perspective on some aspects of cosmology. And the ideas are even more powerful when combined with concepts like Wick rotation and imaginary time, in the light of which even an initial Big Bang "singularity" becomes just another point along a smooth phase transition between 4-dimensional Euclidean space and (3,1)-dimensional Lorentzian spacetime. It is entirely possible that we live within some portion of a 5 (or more) dimensional manifold that just happens to have the emergent property of "time". I wish I were smart enough to convey it graphically.
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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2010, 09:32:08 PM »

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/i6sdpc8stqI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/i6sdpc8stqI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]
..
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2010, 10:27:37 PM »

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #99 on: January 26, 2010, 10:27:53 PM »

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/i6sdpc8stqI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/i6sdpc8stqI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]
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Rillion

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #100 on: January 26, 2010, 10:32:07 PM »




........and?

Hint: that video is a parody.  If you honestly don't see the problem with that line of thinking, then kill yourself now. 
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2010, 01:21:03 AM »

All that hatred can't be good.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2010, 01:39:14 AM »




Hint: that video is a parody.  If you honestly don't see the problem with that line of thinking, then kill yourself now. 

Did you get your PhD in art history or linguistics? Is it in an academically challenging field, because sometimes I wonder about you.

I know when I see parody, even when poorly done. If you amuse yourself with strawmen arguments, and simmer about what other people think about, then so be it.

If you're going to point out said strawman to irk me or whatever, you can go fuck yourself.
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Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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Rillion

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2010, 09:32:24 AM »




Hint: that video is a parody.  If you honestly don't see the problem with that line of thinking, then kill yourself now.  

Did you get your PhD in art history or linguistics? Is it in an academically challenging field, because sometimes I wonder about you.

I know when I see parody, even when poorly done. If you amuse yourself with strawmen arguments, and simmer about what other people think about, then so be it.

If you're going to point out said strawman to irk me or whatever, you can go fuck yourself.

Point being: OT God was fucked up, no matter which way you swing it.  No rationalization can redeem him.  No straw man is necessary-- he is the straw man.  I apologize for suggesting that you kill yourself, but obvious sadistic God is obvious.   And it does genuinely irritate me to hear people apply apologetics to him as if he is their alcoholic father. 

(This forum, by the way, is intended by me strictly for recreation.  When it's fun to be calm, rational, and thoughtful, I will be.  When it's fun to be caustic and bitchy, I will be.  Fair warning.)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 09:35:14 AM by Rillion »
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anarchir

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2010, 04:31:19 PM »




Hint: that video is a parody.  If you honestly don't see the problem with that line of thinking, then kill yourself now.  

Did you get your PhD in art history or linguistics? Is it in an academically challenging field, because sometimes I wonder about you.

I know when I see parody, even when poorly done. If you amuse yourself with strawmen arguments, and simmer about what other people think about, then so be it.

If you're going to point out said strawman to irk me or whatever, you can go fuck yourself.

Point being: OT God was fucked up, no matter which way you swing it.  No rationalization can redeem him.  No straw man is necessary-- he is the straw man.  I apologize for suggesting that you kill yourself, but obvious sadistic God is obvious.   And it does genuinely irritate me to hear people apply apologetics to him as if he is their alcoholic father. 

(This forum, by the way, is intended by me strictly for recreation.  When it's fun to be calm, rational, and thoughtful, I will be.  When it's fun to be caustic and bitchy, I will be.  Fair warning.)

It would be great to be a fed, getting paid to do this :P
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