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Author Topic: Questions for the believers  (Read 16529 times)

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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2010, 06:57:28 AM »

PS: Hellbilly, I hope my answers (in both currently pertinent threads) are helping to satisfy your questions that I promised I would answer.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2010, 07:31:07 AM »

I thought this was interesting: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4061817701550449001&ei=WutaS4TPEIOWwgO_zJD0Bg&q=judaism+vs.+mormonism&hl=en&client=opera#

This is just to show from my previous posts that I don't have any prejudices against Mormons.  I actually think that they are typically excellent folks even though I completely disagree with their religious philosophy.

I have known mormons who practice the Sabbath on Saturday, just like the Jews.  I really respect that.  I've known mormons who have been SUPER DOWN to study Torah for other holidays like Passover for example.  I really love that. 

I grew up in a very mormon neighborhood.  In fact I grew up around the corner from a mormon church.  Many of my friends were mormon and were members of families of greater than 10 members.  I respect every one of those things myself.  I don't give a damn one way or another about the polygamism, even though i do lean towards polygamy because I'm an asshole who loves getting laid.  Fuck em if they think having too many wives is a burden, he shoulda thought about that before marrying them. 

What I really dig about mormonism is that they read the old testemant and try to live by it more than other modern christian sects.  Mormons tend to be more "down" with the Jews than other sects.  Perhaps this is more due to religious preservation, I really don't know nor do I give a damn.  They're chill, I'm chill.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 07:42:29 AM by Admiral Naismith »
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2010, 08:01:24 AM »

What I found Ironic about this video is that everyting this guy has to say about Christianity is actually attributable to Judaism but NOT most modern sects of Christianity: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4061817701550449001&ei=WutaS4TPEIOWwgO_zJD0Bg&q=judaism+vs.+mormonism&hl=en&client=opera#docid=-6920086458731758835

Check it out, and remember what I had to say.  This guy has a lot of the right ideas, yet all of them are attributable to Judaism!  Yet not modern Christianity!  So check it out.  I like this dude's ideas, but I have a HUGE problem with him because he is falsely attributing many ideas and attitudes to the wrong religion.  One of my best friends growing up was a hardcore christian, and he agreed with me on all points that I am making.  He believes in Jesus et al, but he agreed with my Jewish beliefs on God and religious practician over what his church had to tell him.  He agreed with me on every single count that this dude has to say that is false and disingenuous about Judaism.  He was practically a Jew for Jesus, which in my opinion is better than a straight up Christian because at least a JFJ will acknowledge the basic laws and refuse to be evangelical.


PS:  I realized after writing this that it may be construed as an evangelical effort on my part.  I would like to clarify by specifically pointing out that I am NOT being evangelical.  Please do not try to convert to Judaism or inquire about converting to Judaism because of what I had to say.  I honestly was just defending my religious beliefs pre-emptively when perhaps I should have just ignored this terrible video and just allowed individuals to challenge themselves on their own.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 08:05:21 AM by Admiral Naismith »
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2010, 09:38:57 PM »

Every god is subject to their believers. If a god's believers choose not to believe in him, then what can that god do?

</random>
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2010, 09:51:29 PM »

The God of the Gaps, as it were.

It's interesting you bring up the point of Vacuum Gensis - something that's been discussed and debated from some time.  There are some interesting postulations regarding this in the fields of String Theory (the big physics fad of the moment - much like Quantum Mechanics were about 40 years ago).  The executive, non mathematical summary is like slices of bread - different dimensional planes could at times "bump up" against each other at a singular point, causing a transfer of mass/energy from one plane to another.

I don't have the source material regarding the specifics on hand, so don't take my summary of rudimentary explanation as gospel.

I don't base my belief of G-d on gaps of science.

String theory is unproven.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2010, 10:39:36 PM »

The God of the Gaps, as it were.

It's interesting you bring up the point of Vacuum Gensis - something that's been discussed and debated from some time.  There are some interesting postulations regarding this in the fields of String Theory (the big physics fad of the moment - much like Quantum Mechanics were about 40 years ago).  The executive, non mathematical summary is like slices of bread - different dimensional planes could at times "bump up" against each other at a singular point, causing a transfer of mass/energy from one plane to another.

I don't have the source material regarding the specifics on hand, so don't take my summary of rudimentary explanation as gospel.

I don't base my belief of G-d on gaps of science.

String theory is unproven.
String Theory is nutty cult crap for physicists.  I don't buy it.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Ecolitan

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2010, 01:52:11 PM »


Mormons are in the cult registry last time I checked.

There's a cult registry?  I'd like to meet the person who thinks they get to sort through the religions of the world and decide which is "cult" and which is not, for purposes of pointing and laughing.  Why is it called a registry?  Is it like the who's who registry where I can have a little bio of me and my cult for networking purposes?  Who does the registering?  Is there a fee?  What a stupid fucking name.  Why are you always taken in by these ridiculous things man?  Were they wearing a black suit with a black tie and a black hat and black shoes and a white shirt?  I know how you feel about what that says about yourself, maybe you can't help but think it says all the same things about someone else.  Didn't you learn how awful uniforms are from the nazis?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 01:55:24 PM by Ecolitan »
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fatcat

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2010, 02:24:30 PM »


Mormons are in the cult registry last time I checked.

There's a cult registry?  I'd like to meet the person who thinks they get to sort through the religions of the world and decide which is "cult" and which is not, for purposes of pointing and laughing.  Why is it called a registry?  Is it like the who's who registry where I can have a little bio of me and my cult for networking purposes?  Who does the registering?  Is there a fee?

I think its more of a sex offender type register.

if it actually exists that is
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theCelestrian

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2010, 02:40:33 PM »

I don't base my belief of G-d on gaps of science.

String theory is unproven.

String Theory is nutty cult crap for physicists.  I don't buy it.

Wow, gentlemen - that's some pretty harsh (and slightly ironic) statements.  Would this mean then I could then be justified to summarily attack/dismiss your viewpoints as completely and utterly invalid with the same tone of righteous indignation as I seem to be reading by simply:

I don't base my belief of G-d on gaps of science unsubstantiated declarative statements.

String theory G-d is unproven.

String Theory G-d is nutty cult crap for physicists believers.  I don't buy it.


I have to be frank in that I'm a little disappointed that these statements don't seem to indicate an approach of giving differing viewpoints that have about as much "proven" as yours or any religion/faith with the same level of (at least) respect that I would assume you would at least like others to give you when talking about Judaism. :|
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2010, 03:18:00 PM »

I don't base my belief of G-d on gaps of science.

String theory is unproven.

String Theory is nutty cult crap for physicists.  I don't buy it.

Wow, gentlemen - that's some pretty harsh (and slightly ironic) statements.  Would this mean then I could then be justified to summarily attack/dismiss your viewpoints as completely and utterly invalid with the same tone of righteous indignation as I seem to be reading by simply:

I don't base my belief of G-d on gaps of science unsubstantiated declarative statements.

String theory G-d is unproven.

String Theory G-d is nutty cult crap for physicists believers.  I don't buy it.


I have to be frank in that I'm a little disappointed that these statements don't seem to indicate an approach of giving differing viewpoints that have about as much "proven" as yours or any religion/faith with the same level of (at least) respect that I would assume you would at least like others to give you when talking about Judaism. :|
I had a professor of physics who was obsessed with String Theory.  He dedicated the week before finals to educating us about it.  I walked away from that week completely unprepared for final exams and thinking to myself that there is no logical reasoning to back up ST whatsoever and that all of it was nutty supposition and pseudo-science.  Sure it might be fun to consider and wonder about, but it doesn't make a ton of sense (if any) and exists as a religion for physicists who in my opinion feel a need to believe in God, but are uncomfortable accepting that one exists, so they fall into this weird extremely high level pseudo-scientific "cult" of String Theory.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

mikehz

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2010, 10:20:06 PM »

"Cult" just means it hasn't got enough members yet to represent a serious voting block.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2010, 12:45:18 AM »


Mormons are in the cult registry last time I checked.

There's a cult registry?  I'd like to meet the person who thinks they get to sort through the religions of the world and decide which is "cult" and which is not, for purposes of pointing and laughing.  Why is it called a registry?  Is it like the who's who registry where I can have a little bio of me and my cult for networking purposes?  Who does the registering?  Is there a fee?  What a stupid fucking name.  Why are you always taken in by these ridiculous things man?  Were they wearing a black suit with a black tie and a black hat and black shoes and a white shirt?  I know how you feel about what that says about yourself, maybe you can't help but think it says all the same things about someone else.  Didn't you learn how awful uniforms are from the nazis?


Mormons are in the cult registry last time I checked.

There's a cult registry?  I'd like to meet the person who thinks they get to sort through the religions of the world and decide which is "cult" and which is not, for purposes of pointing and laughing.  Why is it called a registry?  Is it like the who's who registry where I can have a little bio of me and my cult for networking purposes?  Who does the registering?  Is there a fee?  What a stupid fucking name.  Why are you always taken in by these ridiculous things man?  Were they wearing a black suit with a black tie and a black hat and black shoes and a white shirt?  I know how you feel about what that says about yourself, maybe you can't help but think it says all the same things about someone else.  Didn't you learn how awful uniforms are from the nazis?

The cult registry is a book I found in the reference section of my college library. It was academically oriented. They based the difference between cults ans religions based on several factors, including degree of tolerance of dissent, and how much freedom people in the cult had. I tried to find the ISBN using google, but couldn't.


Right. Nazis and uniforms. The Nazis also built highways, so I guess highways are bad too. You know, you're onto something with the uniform analogy. The brownshirts wore brown, and Brownie scouts wear brown. I guess that makes the Brownie scouts as bad as brownshirts.

Wait wait, no. You keep making the mistake of false equivocation. Like a person who says an airplane is a ship because it has a fore, aft, bow and stern you see things that seem similar, like uniforms, religions and cults, so you assume they're all the same.
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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2010, 03:45:33 PM »

I don't base my belief of G-d on gaps of science.

String theory is unproven.

String Theory is nutty cult crap for physicists.  I don't buy it.

Wow, gentlemen - that's some pretty harsh (and slightly ironic) statements.  Would this mean then I could then be justified to summarily attack/dismiss your viewpoints as completely and utterly invalid with the same tone of righteous indignation as I seem to be reading by simply:

I don't base my belief of G-d on gaps of science unsubstantiated declarative statements.

String theory G-d is unproven.

String Theory G-d is nutty cult crap for physicists believers.  I don't buy it.


I have to be frank in that I'm a little disappointed that these statements don't seem to indicate an approach of giving differing viewpoints that have about as much "proven" as yours or any religion/faith with the same level of (at least) respect that I would assume you would at least like others to give you when talking about Judaism. :|
I had a professor of physics who was obsessed with String Theory.  He dedicated the week before finals to educating us about it.  I walked away from that week completely unprepared for final exams and thinking to myself that there is no logical reasoning to back up ST whatsoever and that all of it was nutty supposition and pseudo-science.  Sure it might be fun to consider and wonder about, but it doesn't make a ton of sense (if any) and exists as a religion for physicists who in my opinion feel a need to believe in God, but are uncomfortable accepting that one exists, so they fall into this weird extremely high level pseudo-scientific "cult" of String Theory.

String theory is kinda wack, this guy has a better solution.  The universe is flat and came from "NOTHING".  Long video (1 our) , but presentation is fun and lively.

[youtube=595,490]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7ImvlS8PLIo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7ImvlS8PLIo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2010, 03:51:22 PM »

as  for string theory

"I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. " - Richard Feynman, a quantum physicist
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fatcat

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Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2010, 03:58:31 PM »

I had a professor of physics who was obsessed with String Theory.  He dedicated the week before finals to educating us about it.  I walked away from that week completely unprepared for final exams and thinking to myself that there is no logical reasoning to back up ST whatsoever and that all of it was nutty supposition and pseudo-science.  Sure it might be fun to consider and wonder about, but it doesn't make a ton of sense (if any) and exists as a religion for physicists who in my opinion feel a need to believe in God, but are uncomfortable accepting that one exists, so they fall into this weird extremely high level pseudo-scientific "cult" of String Theory.

Celestrians point seemed to be, that if someone said to you that:

"String Theory G-d is nutty cult crap for physicists believers.  I don't buy it."

That it wouldn't be constitute a very good argument.

And that non believers in this thread generally haven't just said "religion is stupid/for stupid people", but have actually tried to engage the religious beliefs with a bit of depth and understanding.

And that it would be nice if it worked both ways.

Saying that,
You're right that its not proven, but it doesn't mean that it can't be, and that there isn't interesting work being done in String theory.

Although I'm not sure Celestrian was making a point beyond this.

There was theory for black holes long before any physical evidence.
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