Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Questions for the believers
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8   Go Down

Author Topic: Questions for the believers  (Read 16590 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Harry Tuttle

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2106
  • Please don't feed the elitists
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2010, 01:19:20 AM »

I think Cavalier has the best explanation as to why I usually don't worry about religion. Clearly, if there is a god, then he has a very good reason to not make me have an understanding of him and no amount of effort on my part can go against his will. It is best to just allow myself to not worry about whether or not there is a god and seek goodness and ethics in some other manner.
Logged
"If you're giving up your freedom to have freedom you don't have freedom, dummy."              - Mark Edge (10/11/08 show)

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2010, 03:11:36 AM »

I've got some Reform Jew answers to give you, but not right now.  I'll do it later, maybe tomorrow or the next day.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Cognitive Dissident

  • Amateur Agorist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2010, 03:12:47 AM »

It's no good to say of Christians that they are "not rational."  Any belief system is rational if one accepts the underlying presuppostions.  There are numerous works of Christian apologetics that lay out the case for the faith in a rational manner.  Nevertheless, one cannot be persuaded by argument that Christianity is true, because Christianity involves a personal relationship with God based on faith and repentence.  It's a personal experience that the individual knows to be true without being able to prove scientifically.  Arguments made to a Christian against the Christian faith, however rational and well-laid out and scientifically verifiable, must always fail, because of this personal experience of having a direct relationship with God; the truth of the relationship overrides even the most brilliant arguments against God.

It's also why the "argument from outrage" isn't persuasive.  The Christian knows from personal experience that God is good.  Therefore, He must have good reasons for allowing/commanding/committing acts that seem atrocious.  Scott Adams, in his book Seven Years of Highly Defective People (which is a series of Dilbert comics with Scott's commentary in the margins) talks about the character of Dilbert's Garbage man being the smartest man in the world.  He writes, "The unanswered question about this character is why he would choose to be a garbageman if he was the smartest man in the world.  But if you think about it, we wouldn't be in a position to judge anything done by the world's smartest person.  Obviously, his decisions would be different from our own--he's smarter!  So if we don't understand why he does what he does, the problem is probably on our end."

In the same way, when we who are mortal and fallen don't understand the actions of a good and omniscient God, then the problem is probably on our end.  Perhaps God was preventing a major eruption of trans-national genocide? How would anyone who is not omniscient know?

I'd buy that for a dollar!
Logged

mikehz

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8033
    • View Profile
    • Day by Day
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2010, 10:30:47 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I225Vcs3X0g

Yeah, I can't understand how anyone can doubt every story in the Bible...  :lol:
Logged
"Force always attracts men of low morality." Albert Einstein

anarchir

  • Extraordinaire
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5103
  • No victim, no crime.
    • View Profile
    • Prepared Security
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2010, 04:53:13 PM »

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I225Vcs3X0g&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I225Vcs3X0g&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Yeah, I can't understand how anyone can doubt every story in the Bible...  :lol:
Awesome.
Logged
Good people disobey bad laws.
PreparedSecurity.com - Modern security and preparedness for the 21st century.
 [img width= height= alt=Prepared Security]http://www.prepareddesign.com/uploads/4/4/3/6/4436847/1636340_orig.png[/img]

Diogenes The Cynic

  • Cynic. Pessimist. Skeptic. Jerk.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3727
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2010, 09:32:23 PM »

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I225Vcs3X0g&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I225Vcs3X0g&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Yeah, I can't understand how anyone can doubt every story in the Bible...  :lol:
Awesome.

How come I never get to meet any intellectual atheists?
Logged
I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

                                -Dennis Goddard

The ghost of a ghost of a ghost

  • Owned by Brasky. Deal with it.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1026
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2010, 10:03:27 PM »

How come I never get to meet any intellectual atheists?

Cause' Judaism is way too intellectual :roll:
Logged

Diogenes The Cynic

  • Cynic. Pessimist. Skeptic. Jerk.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3727
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2010, 10:15:01 PM »

How come I never get to meet any intellectual atheists?

Cause' Judaism is way too intellectual :roll:

Basically. No one on here can really challenge my faith.

The only group that has come close so far are some formerly religious bloggers who post on the Torah-Science disconnect.
Logged
I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

                                -Dennis Goddard

The ghost of a ghost of a ghost

  • Owned by Brasky. Deal with it.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1026
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2010, 10:19:58 PM »

How come I never get to meet any intellectual atheists?

Cause' Judaism is way too intellectual :roll:

Basically. No one on here can really challenge my faith.

The only group that has come close so far are some formerly religious bloggers who post on the Torah-Science disconnect.
You win, go say a prayer that I'll see the truth too.  
I admit, I do like the hats.
Edit:  You prayed and I received vision.
I'm studying to convert, that makes me saved right?:

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yKqofE-1XIc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yKqofE-1XIc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 10:31:43 PM by WidespreadPanic »
Logged

blackie

  • Guest
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2010, 10:20:33 PM »

No one on here can really challenge my faith.
Are you looking for people to challenge your faith?
Logged

The ghost of a ghost of a ghost

  • Owned by Brasky. Deal with it.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1026
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2010, 10:24:46 PM »

No one on here can really challenge my faith.
Are you looking for people to challenge your faith?
Of course he is.  ---->C.D.
Logged

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2010, 10:49:17 PM »

No one on here can really challenge my faith.
Are you looking for people to challenge your faith?
I'll say that I went looking for people to challenge my faith, and people did.  I bordered on agnosticism for a while and then once I did the research on cosmology rebounded to pantheistic Judaism.

I think that a responsible religious person should look for challenges so that he can gain a greater understanding of his faith.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Diogenes The Cynic

  • Cynic. Pessimist. Skeptic. Jerk.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3727
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2010, 11:28:20 PM »

How come I never get to meet any intellectual atheists?

Cause' Judaism is way too intellectual :roll:

Basically. No one on here can really challenge my faith.

The only group that has come close so far are some formerly religious bloggers who post on the Torah-Science disconnect.
You win, go say a prayer that I'll see the truth too.  
I admit, I do like the hats.
Edit:  You prayed and I received vision.
I'm studying to convert, that makes me saved right?:

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yKqofE-1XIc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yKqofE-1XIc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]

We dont have a concept of saving people. You can be a good person without being Jewish.
Logged
I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

                                -Dennis Goddard

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2010, 11:30:17 PM »


We dont have a concept of saving people. You can be a good person without being Jewish.
+1

Christianity has been confusing people about Judaism for millenia.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

The ghost of a ghost of a ghost

  • Owned by Brasky. Deal with it.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1026
    • View Profile
Re: Questions for the believers
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2010, 11:51:17 PM »

Nuh, uh!  My teacher from the video told me so. 
He said I'd be accepted...on judgement day.  Which means saved in my book.
Hallelujah. 
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Questions for the believers

// ]]>

Page created in 0.023 seconds with 32 queries.