Premeditated provocation by so-called "peace activists" ends in bloodshed

[avshae]

Did the boat belong to the IDF?  If it didn't and they weren't welcome on it than boarding it was an attack and an act of war.

IDF was enforcing a legally declared maritime blockade. Now as far as I know international law, there is nothing to prevent the "peace activists" from attacking soldiers boarding their ship, on this you are right. But once they pick up a knife, or a molotoff cocktail, they cease to become non-combatants, they are participants in an armed conflict. So they can't boo-hoo-hoo in the media about "massacres" and "disproportionate response".

 I salute the brave sailors who defended their lives and property from state sponsored piracy.

You should look up the word piracy. A maritime blockade is a completely legal action as part of an armed conflict. IDF had no agenda of stealing the ship or its cargo. IDF took control of 5 of the 6 ships peacefully, which proves there was no intent to hurt anyone. Only on the Marmara, where terrorists were sharpening their knives itching for a fight, was there any violence. Therefore the use of the word "piracy" here is completely detached from reality.

[The Muslim Agorist]

Who cares if they were liberty activists or not? In such a large group of peace minded people, likely a handful of them are liberty minded people, but there's no way to know right now. The real question is, is this a liberty issue? I think it is. It's civil disobedience drawing the legitimacy of state authority into question. Maybe it's not the state you particularly want people to be resisting, but they are absolutely resisting big government.

[The Muslim Agorist]

IDF was enforcing a legally declared maritime blockade.

Still dodging my question. Where does the blockade start? Can Israel "enforce the blockade" anywhere it wants?

You should look up the word piracy.

"hijacking on the high seas or in similar contexts; taking a ship or plane away from the control of those who are legally entitled to it"

What's the problem?

IDF took control of 5 of the 6 ships peacefully, which proves there was no intent to hurt anyone... Therefore the use of the word "piracy" here is completely detached from reality.

So if I steal your boat and you don't resist it's not piracy?

Keep digging. I'm sure the way of the hole is down there somewhere.

[avshae]

If "enforcing the blockade" is legitimate before they reach the blockade where does the blockade start?

Not where - when.

The blockade starts when the flotilla indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Under such conditions, there is no obligation to wait until the convoy reaches local waters, especially if the ships course is clearly aiming to run the blockade. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations, for example,  sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.

[Ecolitan]

You should look up the word piracy. A maritime blockade is a completely legal action as part of an armed conflict.

Do you really not know that no one here cares what's legal?  It used to be legal to gas jews, would that be ok with you, if it were legal?

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Who cares if they were liberty activists or not? In such a large group of peace minded people, likely a handful of them are liberty minded people, but there's no way to know right now. The real question is, is this a liberty issue? I think it is. It's civil disobedience drawing the legitimacy of state authority into question. Maybe it's not the state you particularly want people to be resisting, but they are absolutely resisting big government.

I don't think so.  I think this is a bunch of either A) Morons or B) Religious fanatics who have been brainwashed by fascist propaganda to resupply Hamas.  The fact that they attacked boarding soldiers with kitchen knives instead of simply letting Israel pass the goods across the border shows that they were not interested in any humanitarian mission to resupply average people. 

They clearly were either trying to
1) add to the propaganda machine,
2) resupply Hamas operatives (terrorist assholes who deserve to die),
or
3) were simply too stupid to realize that they were sailing into a war zone. 

Which do you think it was?

At what point does directing civilian vessels away from a war zone become a legitimate military engagement?  About the time the "civilians" start attacking the soldiers enforcing the blockade.  Start attacking people and you're no longer a civilian.

[Ecolitan]

I don't think so.  I think this is a bunch of either A) Morons or B) Religious fanatics who have been brainwashed by fascist propaganda to resupply Hamas. 

A few people on the boat.

Hedy Epstein (86)
St. Louis, Missouri, USA
She left Germany at 14, in1939, on a Kindertransport (children\'s transport), to London, England - one of almost 10,000 mostly Jewish children.
Both her parents, as well as other family members, perished in Auschwitz in 1942. In July 1945, she returned to Germany to work for the American government, first with the U.S. Civil Censorship Division and then as a research analyst at the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi doctors who performed medical experiments on concentration camp inmates.
In May 1945, she arrived in the United States and quickly became involved in peace and social justice issues.

Mark Daly 37
Kerry, Ireland
Mark Daly is an Irish Senator. He is a Member of Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs, the Seanad Spokesman on Overseas Development, the Deputy Government Spokesman on Innovation, and the Coordinator for the National Forum on Europe.

Annette Groth 56
Berlin, Germany

Annette Groth is a Member of Parliament in the German Bundestag and Human Rights Policy Spokeswoman for the LEFT Party Parliamentary Group.
She serves on the Human Rights and Humanitarian Aid Committee, as well on the Economic Cooperation and Development Committee.
From 1992 to 1997 she worked as Education Officer with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in Geneva. From 1997 to 1999 she was Director of the Ecumenical Coalition on Third World Tourism (ECTWT) and Editor of the quarterly journal CONTOURS in Barbados.
She is a member of the NGO attac, and chair of the German-Greek Parliamentary Friendship Group of the Bundestag.

[The Muslim Agorist]

Not where - when.

No - WHERE! The whole issue is WHERE

Today someone I follow posted like 20 tweets ranting against Israel and expressing intentions to seek training in Pakistan. He challenged the Mossad to come and assassinate him, posting his address in Southern California

I personally don't think he's serious. His bio says he's an atheist. But what do I know.

Where, not When, WHERE does it become legitimate for Israel to assassinate him?

How far do you think Israel's jurisdiction reaches?

[blackie]

Now that I have correctly called out Avsahe as a Mossad agent let us see how quickly he deletes this post.

I don't think he is mossad. Probably works in high-tech. Also part of the IDF, but you don't get much of a choice with that. I like having him around.

[avshae]

Now that I have correctly called out Avsahe as a Mossad agent let us see how quickly he deletes this post.

If you want to get deleted fast then please do use derogatory language, cheap shots, or post something that contributes absolutely nothing to the topic discussed.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

I don't think so.  I think this is a bunch of either A) Morons or B) Religious fanatics who have been brainwashed by fascist propaganda to resupply Hamas. 

A few people on the boat.

Hedy Epstein (86)
St. Louis, Missouri, USA
She left Germany at 14, in1939, on a Kindertransport (children\'s transport), to London, England - one of almost 10,000 mostly Jewish children.
Both her parents, as well as other family members, perished in Auschwitz in 1942. In July 1945, she returned to Germany to work for the American government, first with the U.S. Civil Censorship Division and then as a research analyst at the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi doctors who performed medical experiments on concentration camp inmates.
In May 1945, she arrived in the United States and quickly became involved in peace and social justice issues.

Mark Daly 37
Kerry, Ireland
Mark Daly is an Irish Senator. He is a Member of Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs, the Seanad Spokesman on Overseas Development, the Deputy Government Spokesman on Innovation, and the Coordinator for the National Forum on Europe.

Annette Groth 56
Berlin, Germany

Annette Groth is a Member of Parliament in the German Bundestag and Human Rights Policy Spokeswoman for the LEFT Party Parliamentary Group.
She serves on the Human Rights and Humanitarian Aid Committee, as well on the Economic Cooperation and Development Committee.
From 1992 to 1997 she worked as Education Officer with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in Geneva. From 1997 to 1999 she was Director of the Ecumenical Coalition on Third World Tourism (ECTWT) and Editor of the quarterly journal CONTOURS in Barbados.
She is a member of the NGO attac, and chair of the German-Greek Parliamentary Friendship Group of the Bundestag.

Okay then I'll go back to my previously listed option of "publicity stunt".

[avshae]

You should look up the word piracy. A maritime blockade is a completely legal action as part of an armed conflict.

Do you really not know that no one here cares what's legal?  It used to be legal to gas jews, would that be ok with you, if it were legal?

We were talking about international law. It has never been legal by international law to gas Jews, or any other group per se. You'd need a 3 inch fat book to describe all the humanitarian law violations committed by the Nazi regime.

First of all, Israel's actions in declaring and enforcing a blockade of Gaza are legal. Here's another good source that explains this.

I agree that legal does not of itself guarantee morality.

A blockade is recognized by intl law as a legitimate tool since it is natural to expect that a side in an armed conflict will want to limit the other side's access to supplies. You can't force the Israeli peoples representative to cater for the needs of the Gazan population, while Hamas initiates hostilities toward the Israeli population. As long as the blockade does not cause humanitarian disaster in Gaza - it is moral.

[avshae]

No - WHERE! The whole issue is WHERE
[...]
How far do you think Israel's jurisdiction reaches?

So if I steal your boat and you don't resist it's not piracy?

By your use of the words "jurisdiction" and "piracy" it is obvious that you do not grasp the fundamental concepts of lawful maritime blockade. Read this.

[The Muslim Agorist]

Dude it's not complicated.

If it's legitimate in your mind to seize ships headed for Gaza in international water that never actually crossed into Israel's water simply because of a stated intention, would it be legitimate for for Israeli warships to patrol the waters outside Ireland and seize the same ships the moment they left port?

Can Israel do whatever it wants wherever it wants whenever it wants in the name of "National Security?"

[avshae]

More closeup footage of "peace activists" on their "humanitarian mission" to "aid" the Palestinians:

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