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Author Topic: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!  (Read 10741 times)

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Alex Libman

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Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« on: April 08, 2009, 10:18:31 AM »

OK, somebody had to say it.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not some newbie perl hater - I've been writing CGI scripts in it for over a decade, and it's the language I can show off with the best (I'm good with obfuscated C too, but perl was really created with obfuscation and little else in mind).

The winner is Python, with JavaScript being the runner-up.  The TIOBE Index shows Python as the #6 most popular programming language, and the most popular language to show strong growth.  Python grew by 1.18 percentage points over the past twelve months - the only language in the Top 20 to show that much growth.  The second biggest gainer in absolute terms was JavaScript in 8th place (by 0.75 percentage points).  PHP remains the most popular scripting language in 4th place, but its popularity is declining.  Also declining are the biggest fads of the recent years: Ruby and Digital Mars D.  But perl, in 9th place, is declining the fastest!  The same applies when comparing to 5 years ago: python is the biggest gainer overall, and perl the biggest loser among scripting languages.

Python 2.6 is already faster than perl (or Ruby / PHP), and a new project launched by Google (who are big Python fans) aims to increase performance by as much as 500%!

Python also has far better implementations on various virtual machines (i.e. Jython, IronPython) - a category in which Ruby is a distant second and perl / PHP are lagging substantially. 

If you are new to Python, I hope this thread will encourage you to give it a try.  A lot of interesting Python-related videos are available from the recent PyCon convention.  And if your boss ever insists on doing a project in a dying language like perl, well then, perhaps it's time to hire yourself a new boss!  8)

Cheers.
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blackie

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 12:10:55 PM »

I could care less about the languages. Whatever works.
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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 02:32:06 PM »

Get use to PHP, it's much like the tradition of wearing ties at work. It's done because it's been done for a long time. Therefore, STFU and get use to PHP already.
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blackie

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 03:06:08 PM »

Powershell is a big improvement for MS.
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Kevin Freeheart

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2009, 08:14:58 PM »

if ($libman_is_troll) {die("STFU n00b!");}
else // (still)
{ die();}
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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2009, 02:38:44 AM »

Powershell is a big improvement for MS.

Very true. You can do lots of system commands and server setups without having to do remote desktop login.
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Alex Libman

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2009, 02:00:15 PM »

I've been using Python for a while. It still feels... arkward.

Yeah, the "off-side rule" never stops being awkward, because no Python power-coder uses it exclusively - ya gotta do C, JavaScript, and so on.  But I still think it is a good idea.  You indent anyway, so why have extra punctuation?  Even the colon could have been made optional.
 

[...] Therefore, STFU and get use to PHP already.

I've been "used to" PHP since version 3, I maintain a dozen PHP Web-sites for clients, but that doesn't mean I like PHP.  It doesn't offer any advantages except the learning curve for n00bs.  Even perl is better because it has more modules (CPAN) and you can reuse more of your code from outside the Web stuff.


Powershell is a big improvement for MS.

I have a separate thread for Microsoft worship;)


if ($libman_is_troll) {die("STFU n00b!");}
else // (still)
{ die();}

Great, a fatter balder PHP programmer just called me a n00b...  :roll:
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 02:05:54 PM by Alex Libman »
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Alex Libman

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2009, 10:41:50 PM »

I came across this stupid blog post called "If Philosophers Were Programmers".  It's something I have spent a lot of time thinking about in the past, and when I bookmarked it I was really expecting to enjoy reading it, but then... like an arrow through my heart...  Kant?!?!  :x

It prompted me to post the following comment:

Quote
Title: Python is Objectivist

This is the most retarded piece of drivel in the history of the Internet!

While I agree on Socrates and Aristotle, Plato should definitely be Algol, Fortran, or Cobol.

Kant should at best be associated with BrainF*ck, or some other useless nonsensical irrational joke of a programming language. Even that would be a greater honor than he deserves!

Python should in fact be associated with the very opposite philosophy, and the greatest philosopher of the twentieth century: Ayn Rand. Python is clearly something Howard Roark would design: clean, rational, and brilliant.

Oh, and I liked the comment linking Lisp to Nietzsche.  :lol:
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Ghost of Alex Libman

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2009, 05:47:48 AM »

The May TIOBE index numbers are out.  (Digital Mars) D is dead.  Other trends for the most part remain the same: Python is rising, Perl is falling.

In other Python news, the 3.1 (alpha) branch has caught up and sightly surpassed the 2.6.x branch in terms of performance.
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truberg

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2009, 06:46:36 PM »

Python is my favorite language by far...  I love how it almost reads like English, if you know the syntax.  It's high-level with (some) low-level capabilities, and has tons of plug-ins (modules) for things like audio, MIDI, PDF's, JPG's, etc.  Every time I find myself doing something routine, it dawns on me that a Python script may save me tons of time in the long-run.  Once chips are fast enough, embedded Python will also come to replace strictly compiled languages like C, since you can load new code and run it without requiring a build.  I've written a complete tag-based file organizer/backup system, scripts to automate the record books and invoices for my recording studio, tools to edit audio and text files with the press of a button, etc.  My greatest dream is that every device will someday have Python bindings.

import fridge
for item in fridge:
  if truberg.IsHungry() and item.IsGood():
    item.get()
    item.eat()
  print item+" was delicious."

Okay, just kidding, it would be scary if it got to that level!  But the possibilities stagger the imagination!
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Ghost of Alex Libman

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2009, 07:21:11 PM »

To be fair, perl's CPAN still has more modules than PyPI (15,693 vs 6,478), but not by that much when you consider Python's "batteries included" philosophy.  Some of perl's modules are also more mature, but that's quickly changing.

Random thought:  It would be nice if the Parrot VM project was more successful - it would then be possible to have common packages / repositories for those and other scripting languages.  Too bad it sucks.  And, if only JVM / CLR had something as good as CPAN (maven / jpackage suck!)...  Those platforms sucking less would be to Python's benefit, since perl's Java and .NET implementations (and IDE support) suck compared to Jython and IronPython, respectively.  It would also give a boost to other cool languages for those VM's, like Boo, Groovy, etc.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 07:33:50 PM by the ghost of Alex Libman »
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Alex Libman 14

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 06:03:25 AM »

The June TIOBE Index shows Perl and D continuing to fall, but Python is losing ground as well.  Fastest gainers are plain C, JavaScript, and C#, in that order.

TraceMonkey is also making JavaScript competetive in terms of speed, but JS remains a language without substantive core libraries - good for its Web browser monopoly and nothing else.

Python v3.1 RC was released a week ago.  Hooray for ordered dictionaries, C-based optimizations, etc.




« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 06:08:39 AM by Alex Libman 2012 »
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Alex Libman 15

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2009, 01:52:10 PM »

The September TIOBE Index continues to show a disturbing trend that I've tried to ignore for the past couple of months: Python is now declining, while PHP is growing big, now to become the third most popular programming language after Java and C, leapfrogging C++ and VB.  :shock:

I think Microsoft including PHP in their Web Platform Installer [WP] is what's causing this...  (Here comes you-know-who to call me an astroturfer...)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 01:56:10 PM by Alex Libman »
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NuroSlam

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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2009, 02:05:00 AM »

The September TIOBE Index continues to show a disturbing trend that I've tried to ignore for the past couple of months: Python is now declining, while PHP is growing big, now to become the third most popular programming language after Java and C, leapfrogging C++ and VB.  :shock:

I think Microsoft including PHP in their Web Platform Installer [WP] is what's causing this...  (Here comes you-know-who to call me an astroturfer...)

I would prob have to agree with your reason for the increase
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Re: Perl is dead. PHP sucks. Long live Python!
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 04:58:25 AM »

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