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Author Topic: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9  (Read 17695 times)

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Alex Libman

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Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« on: August 18, 2010, 08:43:40 AM »

Let the speculation begin!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 12:29:48 PM by Alex Libman »
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libertylover

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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 8
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 12:18:56 PM »

The Vaccine Episode was complete hog wash. They harped on one researcher who has been discredited for ethical reasons.  Used anyone they could attach to Jenny McCarthy then used that discredited their medical license and position.  Found a redneck uneducated person to defend the vaccine skeptic side scoring bonus points because he wasn't good looking or a skilled tv personality.  Out right lied with the claim that McCarthy or Wakefield ever said to not vaccinate kids.  McCarthy advocates for a different vaccine schedule and Wakefield advocated for single shots over the combined MMR vaccine but neither said no vaccines.  So advocating for a different vaccine schedule is anti-vaccine, how exactly?

Where was Dr. Mayer Eisenstein the author of Don't Vaccinate Before you Educate?  Not on the program.  Why because he is a seasoned researcher and has years of experience being a vaccine skeptic?  What were they afraid of?  I bet if they tried real hard they could have made him look foolish.  I believe someone found a few typos in his book or something.
Where was Dr. Kirby who has testified before congress begging for the CDC to complete a study which they were assigned in 1982 to do.  A study which was to do a comparison between vaccinated and unvaccinated children.  They could have still discredited him based on a connection to McCarthy.

Their little demonstration could have been blown apart by the simple fact that several illnesses which we have no vaccines against them have been virtually eradicated.  Why is that?  When only vaccines are suppose to be able to eliminate plagues and illnesses?  They also made it appear that vaccines are 100% effect, they are not.  Read any vaccine insert and it will give an effectiveness rating of between 75% to 95%.  The stupid demonstration also gave off the impression that multitudes of people would die if they weren't vaccinated. (fear mongering much) Another misrepresentation the vast majority would not die and in fact many would have life long immunity and little damage if caught in childhood i.e. Chickenpox.  Which if BTW you haven't had Chickenpox and only the vaccine.  You had better get it again by 35 because you have no immunity to Chickenpox and Chickenpox if caught in adulthood is dangerous. (Imagine that I will be called anti-vaccine and there I just advocated that certain people get a vaccine.)  Before the chickenpox vac only 100 people annually died from it out of a 250 million population this includes adult victims.  Of that 100 it would be safe to bet they had weakened immune systems to start with.

Then they made the claim that increase diagnosis bullshit.  A California statistical analysis of autism rates and the chance that the increase is due to increase diagnosis blew that argument out of the water. 
Quote
A study by researchers at the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute has found that the seven- to eight-fold increase in the number children born in California with autism since 1990 cannot be explained by either changes in how the condition is diagnosed or counted — and the trend shows no sign of abating.
http://www.physorg.com/news150636855.html  BTW this is a scientific study and peer reviewed.  Why weren't any of these researchers invited to be on the BS show?  Maybe because it completely disproved their lie.

Ignoring all the conflicts of interest between the CDC and vaccine manufactures, their self funded exonerating studies and how the Vaccine Injury Court is stacked against all claimants.  They used the claim vaccines only make up 2% of drug company profits and that is why they need extraordinary government protections.  My how Libertarian of them advocating for GOVERNMENT protected liability for multi-billion dollar corporations.  So are they now huge fans of the FDA and all the regulations which also protect the profits of these same multi-billion dollar corporations?

Keep in mind that 2% represents billions of dollars.  And several of the vaccine pushers are going to receive multi million dollar payoffs in the 100s of millions of dollars.  Wakefield's 400k pails in comparison which was used to discredit him for unethical conflict of interest.  400k that was paid to him over the course of several years.  Years prior to the study in connection with consultations on other cases that weren't even presented in the study.

Then the claim that the vaccine skeptical side is promoting this view to profit off alternative treatments another bullshit argument.  Parents of autistic kids would be seeking out alternative therapies regardless of the cause of autism.  Because conventional medicine hasn't done anything to help bring these kids out of their neurological disorder.   Parents of downs syndrome kids are using alternative therapies to lessen the effects of a know genetic disorder.  But somehow parents of autistic kids have to believe that vaccines caused their child's illness to seek out alternative therapies.  If that is the best they can do for a conflict of interest.  What a couple of DINKS.

How about the 10 cases which have made it through the gauntlet that is the Vaccine Injury reporting system and Vaccine Injury Court to win their cases by proving that vaccines can cause Autism in some children who have Mitochondrial disorders.   The CDC estimates that there is 1 in 50 kids has this Mitochondrial disorder and of that 30% develop autism as a result of a vaccine injury.  But instead of advocating for giving kids a urine test to see if they have this disorder and should be placed on a much more cautious vaccine schedule.   No we are told that life long neurological disorders and mental retardation are an acceptable risk for the greater good which vaccines are suppose to provide.  (Why are Libertarians reading from the Communist Manifesto.  Greater good!?)

One little side note for vaccine advocates who demand the current vaccine schedule as gospel.  They will say even if vaccines did cause Autism in 1 in 100 kids the benefits of vaccines are worth it.  And at least the child is not dead from one of the illnesses which vaccines are suppose to protect them from.  Having an autistic child is not only a life long prison sentence for the child who has it, it is one for the family of that child.  If having a mentally retarded child is better than the child possibly dying.  Why is the abortion rate for Downs Syndrome babies 92%?  Or how about the fact that 80% of parents of an Autistic child will divorce vs. only 12% of parents who have a child die divorcing.   How heartless of those people letting their actions show that having a child die is not as devastating to a family as having a child with a neurological disorder.

I highly doubt that those who have drunk the vaccines are completely beyond any reproach will bother to have read this far.
But here is a link to an article in response to the Wakefield controversy by a vaccine skeptical medical professional. 
http://www.expertclick.com/NewsReleaseWire/Vaccine_Skeptic_Dr_Mayer_Eisenstein_Wants_Everyone_to_Read_about_Dr_Sherry_Tenpenny_Discussing_Dr_Wakefield_Controversy,201030707.aspx
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Alex Libman

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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2010, 12:33:11 PM »

Bah, was I on crack when I typod the thread subject?!  (Now fixed, replacing an erroneous '8' with the intended '9'.)  I obviously meant Season 9 - the presumable next season.  We already have a thread for Season 8, which just ended.  My bad.  The more I try to organize stuff, the more confusion I create.  :roll:
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anarchir

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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 01:12:13 PM »

Police, Pets, War, the Space Program, Internet, Exercise.
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libertylover

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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 01:23:16 PM »

Bah, was I on crack when I typod the thread subject?!  (Now fixed, replacing an erroneous '8' with the intended '9'.)  I obviously meant Season 9 - the presumable next season.  We already have a thread for Season 8, which just ended.  My bad.  The more I try to organize stuff, the more confusion I create.  :roll:


I should have known you did not mean to touch on an issue which completely calls into question if Penn and Teller really are Libertarians.  Their credibility for me is shot by the bias and blatantly false arguments they presented in their last episode of season 8.   Logic which they applied to conflicts of interest between the government and the global warming scientist were not applied to the CDC in the vaccine show.  And the presentation of outright lies as facts plus the omission of some actual facts.  That makes me want to question just about every episode they have done and less likely to accept any future arguments from them.  It has increased my skepticism about their motives and agenda. 
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Rillion

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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 03:09:09 PM »

I should have known you did not mean to touch on an issue which completely calls into question if Penn and Teller really are Libertarians.  Their credibility for me is shot by the bias and blatantly false arguments they presented in their last episode of season 8. 

Even if the last show was full of bias and blatantly false arguments (which I don't know if it was or not, not having seen it), what does that have to do with whether they are really libertarians?  Did they advocate forcing people to get vaccinated? 
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libertylover

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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 06:17:24 PM »

I should have known you did not mean to touch on an issue which completely calls into question if Penn and Teller really are Libertarians.  Their credibility for me is shot by the bias and blatantly false arguments they presented in their last episode of season 8. 

Even if the last show was full of bias and blatantly false arguments (which I don't know if it was or not, not having seen it), what does that have to do with whether they are really libertarians?  Did they advocate forcing people to get vaccinated? 

They justified the use of a special court which is specifically designed to protect the interest of vaccine manufactures.  Government force in the form of protectionism.  They never questioned the use of tax dollars to pay for flu vaccines.  Taxes equals force.  

They made a very anti-Libertarian greater good argument regarding the MMR.  Failing to point out that the MMR isn't the only vaccine which would accomplish the goal of vaccinating people against mumps and measles.  It was like consumer demand and free market choice were alien concepts.  (Note:  The MMR is still under patent therefore more profitable and the single shots are in the public domain therefore cheaper generics could be made available as an option.)  If their real goal was to get people to vaccinate.  Why not advocate for an alternative to the MMR which accomplishes the same goal?  And would be in keeping with free market principles?

While they didn't advocate forced vaccination programs.  They did not defend anyone's right to say no to forced vaccination either.  If I missed that I will apologize but I sure don't remember them saying people have the right to not have stuff injected into them by anyone against their will.
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Alex Libman

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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 06:24:49 AM »

I wonder if the legal threat that kept them from doing one about Scientology is still an issue.  Maybe they can also do one about Muhammad cartoons, and some other misconceptions about Islam.  (Anti)natalism?  Security theater?  Holocaust denial?  Penis size?  Protein / muscle worship?  GNU?  :roll:
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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 11:22:42 PM »

I wonder if the legal threat that kept them from doing one about Scientology is still an issue.  Maybe they can also do one about Muhammad cartoons, and some other misconceptions about Islam.  (Anti)natalism?  Security theater?  Holocaust denial?  Penis size?  Protein / muscle worship?  GNU?  :roll:

A show on anti-Islam hysteria seems pretty likely. I've requested specific pro-freedom topics (traffic rules, democracy, and intellectual property), but am very doubtful that any of them will make it—especially the last one, since Penn actually advocates that particular bullshit.
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Re: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Season 9
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 01:25:33 PM »

I personally liked the Vaccine episode, anti-vaccine loons are loons. Some stuff I don't think they did yet include democracy, unions, the military, advertising (in support of), and since they are on Showtime, nudism laws.
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