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Poll

If you had to choose...

Childless tax (see here)
- 0 (0%)
Parents tax (see below)
- 8 (25.8%)
Let civilization collapse
- 17 (54.8%)
Ian's magic wand
- 6 (19.4%)

Total Members Voted: 21


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Author Topic: Parents Tax  (Read 24949 times)

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gibson042

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2009, 01:35:14 PM »

Nice avatar. :)
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Rodeen

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2009, 02:19:07 PM »

I kinda feel honored that you would take my picture and soil it with your idiotic persona.
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Alex Libman 15

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2009, 04:25:33 PM »

I wonder if any right-wingers will see this poll and then edit the Wikipedia article on "libertarians" to read:

Quote
A cult that recognizes that their political philosophy leads to tremendous economic losses and don't seem to be interested in reforming it.

:lol:
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2009, 06:59:29 PM »

After WWII Germany tried a guest worker program to rebuild their country. It was successful, as Germany soon outgrew England in manufacturing. They only problem they had was allowing the Turks they invited in to stay. Thats today a large source of cultural tension.

There is an almost limitless supply of people with no jobs in Indonesia, India, and China who would work like crazy for a few bucks.


Of all the demographic things going on now, the one thing I predicted a few years back has not yet happened; mail order Chinese husbands. Strange as how they ave too many men there, and women here are having so much trouble getting married, but not as much trouble getting professional careers.
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Alex Libman 15

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2009, 08:58:23 PM »

Once again - birth rates are declining all over the world!  Even the most Europeanized of the Islamic countries are already doomed for population decline!  You cannot solve this problem by moving people across borders!  Think outside the box!


I thought you wanted optimal economic growth, which is impossible when people wastefully expend resources (the aforementioned ice sculptures and fireworks are noteworthy examples).  And if you try arguing that such actions are economically productive, then I will respond by pointing out that an obligation to pay anyone indefinitely retards growth by reducing monetary incentives—right after I recover from the requisite fit of laughter.

You thought wrong.  Hitting people with a stick and yelling "MORE WORK! LESS PLAY!" always backfires.  All things that people are willing to pay for voluntarily (and that don't violate the rights of others) are economically beneficial.  (Enjoy.  Irrational laughter burns calories too.)
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2009, 11:27:16 PM »

Once again - birth rates are declining all over the world!  Even the most Europeanized of the Islamic countries are already doomed for population decline!  You cannot solve this problem by moving people across borders!  Think outside the box!




You can solve it that way. The industrialized nations will remain stable, and third world crapholes will remain third world crapholes with slightly fewer people, and higher per capita standards of living.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 11:53:53 PM by Diogenes The Cynic »
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Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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Harry Tuttle

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2009, 11:32:51 PM »

Humanity is not going to die out due to its own success. Short-term trends will fix themselves. If we could get the government out of our lives then more women would be able to afford to stay home and raise children - or stay out of the workplace after that first child is born. Your population shrinkage problem is just as much a phantom as global warming or global dimming.

I'm not saying your numbers are wrong, I'm saying your conclusions are.
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gibson042

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2009, 11:36:15 PM »

Hitting people with a stick and yelling "MORE WORK! LESS PLAY!" always backfires.

So does punishing them for lack of children.  And, most relevant here, so does taxing their existence.

Quote
All things that people are willing to pay for voluntarily (and that don't violate the rights of others) are economically beneficial.

By that reasoning, either voluntary underbreeding is optimally economically beneficial or you're comfortable with sub-optimal economic growth.  In either case, you've wasted your time arguing for corrective social engineering.

Your extrapolation of current trends to calamitous conclusions is like a reverse version of the statisticians on an airplane joke.  Even if you're right, society would inevitably undergo a phase change well before the nurseries were empty.
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Rodeen

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2009, 01:19:30 AM »

Keep feeding the troll.  Me thinks he likey.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2009, 02:51:51 AM »

Keep feeding the troll.  Me thinks he likey.

Please shut the fuck up.



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Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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atomiccat

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2009, 04:20:17 AM »

Looks like the parent tax is Welfare, The stupid people who don't want to work will pop out kids so they can enslave their kids to work for them. I don't see Overpopulation or underpopulation to be a issue if humans are to stupid to breed If and or when the population starts dwindling at a increasing rate, well then let humanity perish.

Alex Libman 15

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2009, 09:17:36 AM »

You can solve it that way. The industrialized nations will remain stable, and third world crapholes will remain third world crapholes with slightly fewer people, and higher per capita standards of living.

If a person in Dhaka, Bangladesh or Abuja, Nigeria or the jungles of Peru can outbid me on Guru.com then he can have my job (for that particular project), my salary, and my lifestyle - which is perfectly fair.  The overwhelming majority of people living the modern post-industrialized lifestyle simply aren't breeding, no matter if you classify them as the zeroth world or the tenth world.  Incomes keep going up, religious delusions keep going down, and the fertility rates are in free-fall - everywhere.

There are no nations - just one aging and human civilization that will soon begin shrinking!


Humanity is not going to die out due to its own success. Short-term trends will fix themselves. If we could get the government out of our lives then more women would be able to afford to stay home and raise children - or stay out of the workplace after that first child is born.

I agree that government interventionism in the family has a significant impact on fertility rates, for both economic and psychological reasons.  I like to baselessly speculate about the loss of the "king of my castle" effect and fear of "raising little snitches for the state" that's pushing fertility rates down, but the government also conducts redistribution of wealth for the benefit of the breeders that could be pushing them up.  That's why libertarians need to think long and hard about this issue.  Human population is the most important economic resource of all!


Your population shrinkage problem is just as much a phantom as global warming or global dimming.  I'm not saying your numbers are wrong, I'm saying your conclusions are.

Global warming / cooling / dimming / etc are cases of baseless speculation based on inconclusive data due to pro-government bias in government-funded academia.  The demographic decline is real, not just on paper but in fact in places like Europe, Russia, and Japan.  A few individual nations can solve this problem through immigration - the whole world can't.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2009, 11:19:47 AM »

Why don't we just start a Brave New World?
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Alex Libman 15

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2009, 11:22:21 AM »

Because that would be a violation of individual rights.  Property rights and parents' rights are not.

And in Brave New World forceful measures are taken to keep the population stable, not to incentivize productivity.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 11:33:49 AM by Alex Libman »
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gibson042

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Re: Parents Tax
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2009, 11:25:57 AM »

Because that would be a violation of individual rights.

Property rights and parents' rights are not.

You don't consider incomplete self-ownership (i.e., "partial slavery") to be a violation of individual rights?
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