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Author Topic: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination  (Read 13180 times)

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LordMarius

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Re: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2009, 04:36:04 AM »

obviously you ain't gonna live in no plastic bubble but you can consider the things you ingest or do to your own body and figure out what you are or aren't comfortable with doing. It's always worth considering. How would the free market react if people were opting for healthier products?

People just don't seem to be aware of how much mercury is in the environment.  It isn't a conspiracy.  It is a bunch of different manufactures looking for the cheapest way to preserve their products so they can be competitive in the market place.   All an individual consumer can do is search for ways to minimize their own personal exposure.  This goes doubly for a pregnant woman or a woman looking to get pregnant.   

There are many things which can limit your exposure.  I doubt anyone could totally avoid mercury.  I would think Libertarians understand that it is an issue of personal responsibility. 

Don't live in a home next to a hwy.  And try to not get caught in heavy traffic as much as possible.
If you have dental amalgams and can't get them removed consider getting a grindguard for sleeping and avoid whitening toothpaste and products.  Also if you are an ice cruncher stop it. 
Don't eat fish choose flax oil or hemp oil for omega 3 source
Purchase organic fruits and veg
Don't handle broken florescent bulbs (that is what men are for.) 
Get spring water for drinking, least contaminated.  Scientist are working on ways to eliminate mercury from water supplies http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090517143341.htm Currently there is no economical home water filtration which will eliminate mercury. 
Select products which don't have mercury listed as an ingredient opt for the non-mercury version or substitute.  Usually there is another choice available. 
Batteries get non-mercury ones.  Manufactures have voluntarily started removing mercury.  They hope all batteries will be mercury free by 2011. 
Don't take or inject medical products to include some vaccines which contain Thimerosal especially if you are pregnant. 

The alternative is to have Government handle it, like they did with lead and ddt pollution, by banning the use of mercury in most products if not all products.   



Either this, or one might choose to go on with ones life eating delish sushi celebrating the fact that the average lifespan in increasing because of things like modern agricultural technolofy, and vaccines and other medical developments.
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libertylover

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Re: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2009, 06:42:07 AM »

Either this, or one might choose to go on with ones life eating delish sushi celebrating the fact that the average lifespan in increasing because of things like modern agricultural technolofy, and vaccines and other medical developments.

Being from Europe you wouldn't know about our national disaster created from modern agricultural technology.  You might want to look up the great dust bowl and see how many people were killed or lost their homes due to introduction of mechanical plows.  They just went in and broke up the sod of the great plains no contour farming, no wind breaks, no crop rotation, no erosion prevention techniques, no thought what so ever it could lead to a monumental disaster should a drought hit.   Out of that disaster new technology grew to prevent it from happening again.   Just like with the problems of mercury contamination new technology will arise.   But like the great dust bowl those harmed in the learning process are still harmed.

I work with environmental engineers on water quality issues.  I am an advocate for Hemp cultivation in and around water ways.  Currently farmers are required to have a easement between their fields and any water ways of 20 feet in which they plant various grasses.  Unfortunately from testing it seems runoff water contamination isn't stopped by this strategy and some in government are calling for larger easements.  The bad thing is larger easements eat up more workable farm land.  However, if Hemp were allowed to be grown in the easement area it would be a win win situation.  Farmers get a cash crop which doesn't require any pesticides and due to the 12 inch deep root structure of the Hemp plant  a natural barrier to the water is created keeping water supplies from being contaminated.  Not to mention with the extra Hemp production it will become a greater source of plant protein to feed people than what we are currently growing.   I talk to farmers in their 60s, 70s and 80s and they are screaming to be allowed to grow hemp in place of this easement plans which could force more into foreclosure.   And they are also talking about mercury free farm products because of the mercury content in the fish in their irrigation ponds is making them inedible.   This is really bad if your sideline is catfish farming.  And here in lies the greatest failure of democracy because farmers represent a minority vote in the minds of politicians they don't count.   The urban residents have to understand that water quality is important to them as well as keeping prices for food lower and both can be accomplished with hemp cultivation.   Something which is currently illegal.

It is really sad you are too stupid to realize I am not advocating to do away with technology.  I am advocating for improving technology by removing mercury from the environment .   I only suggest people buy organic fruit and vegetables as a way to use the market to spur on the development of mercury free pesticides and fertilizers.  Also by boycotting fish it will cause that industry to demand that manufactures who pump out mercury waste water to clean up their acts and purchase filtration which will eliminate mercury from their effluent.   But go on ahead and enjoy your mercury laden lifestyle.  When it comes back to bite you in the ass don't act as though it was an act of God.  Just like it wasn't an act of God that caused the great dust bowl either.  

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atomiccat

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Re: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2009, 11:51:28 PM »

This might be part of the reason for not wanting to take it, Fda only requires it to work in 3-10 patients... I think a Placebo might be more effective

http://www.pandemicfluonline.com/?p=999

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CDC States H1N1 Vaccine May Maim and Kill 30,000 Americans, FDA Requires Minimal Efficacy
CDC says to assume 1 in every 100,000 vaccine recipients will suffer serious side effects, FDA only requires vaccine be effective in 3 out of 10 recipients.

The Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has officially stated that there will be as many as 30,000 serious, potentially lethal adverse reactions to the novel H1N1 vaccine, while the FDA guidelines for the novel H1N1 vaccine only require that it work in 3 out of every 10 recipients.

Last Saturday, I attended one of 10 “public engagement” meetings the CDC is holding across the country, utilizing a new model of public engagement designed to provide a public viewpoint or societal perspective on the topic at hand (mass vaccination) to the sponsor (in this case, the CDC).

Part of the process entails the sponsor (CDC) providing the following: “Information on the many sides of an issue is provided to the participants in a fair and balanced manner so that all participants become well-informed, and the overall group process is convened and managed in a neutral, respectful fashion.”

This requirement is met by providing an oral presentation in easy to understand language, a booklet summarizing the key facts needed and a discussion guide summarizing the choices faced.

The assembled group of 80 participants was shown a video, given a brief oral presentation and a printed discussion guide. We were asked to accept several assumptions in considering the topic. We were asked to assume that the severity would be similar to what had already been observed in the spring of 2009; we were told to assume that the vaccination program would be voluntary, not mandatory; we were told to assume that initial vaccine supplies will be available in October but supply would be limited through February 2010.

The most disturbing assumption we were asked to accept dealt with the safety of the novel H1N1 vaccine. In the video, the CDC spokesperson explained that during the 1976 mass vaccination campaign, 1 in every 100,000 recipients of the vaccine developed Guillain Barré syndrome (GBS), a disorder in which the body’s immune system attacks the peripheral nervous system often leading to paralysis and death. There is no known cure for GBS.

In 1976 roughly 40 million Americans received the vaccine and some 4,000 developed GBS.

The printed material that was distributed reiterated these horrific statistics and we were asked to accept the assumption that, “the estimated risk for more serious reactions (e.g. Guillain Barré syndrome) is between 1-10 per million persons vaccinated”.

This is a less direct way of stating that the risk is about the same as existed during the 1976 mass vaccination attempt and that as many as 1 in every 100,000 recipients will develop GBS or some other serious adverse reaction. The CDC is setting up a new intensive surveillance system with which to monitor and track GBS cases that result from the novel H1N1 vaccine.

Merriam-Webster defines assumption as a fact or statement taken for granted and assumed to be true. If we accept the documented assumption presented by the CDC, we are to consider it a fact that 1 in every 100,000 vaccine recipients will suffer a serious adverse effect such as GBS.

This means that if the entire U.S. population is vaccinated (a stated goal of the CDC), we are to assume as a fact that 30,000 Americans will suffer debilitating or lethal side effects. Apparently the CDC considers this an acceptable level of collateral damage.

As unthinkable as this is (destroying or ending the lives of as many as 30,000 Americans), that is only part of the story.

The novel H1N1 vaccine being developed must adhere to guidelines set forth by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The FDA has announced that a vaccine will be accepted if it creates antibodies in 4 out of 10 recipients (40%), with at least 70 percent of those 4 achieving an antibody level believed to provide benefit. This means that an acceptable vaccine candidate would provide “protection” for 28% of vaccine recipients (70% of the 40%), or less than 3 in 10 recipients. The requirement drops to 18% efficacy for those over 65 years of age (60% of 30%).

So here are the facts, as documented by the CDC and the FDA:

As many as 30,000 Americans will be harmed by the novel H1N1 vaccine.

The vaccine may be ineffective in more than 7 out of 10 recipients.

And in case you think I am alone in my concerns, here is what several vaccine experts associated with the CDC and the U.S. government say on the subject.

“I am very skeptical of finishing vaccine before we know the appropriate dose to be included in each inoculation, before immunogenicity studies are complete, or before safety assessments have been finished,” William Schaffner, MD, Chairman of the Department of Preventive Medicine at Vanderbilt University and a member of the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), wrote in an recent e-mail.

“We have assured both the profession and the public that the H1N1 vaccine will be evaluated with the same rigor that is applied to seasonal vaccine. We should NOT make vaccine available before the trials are complete and the results carefully assessed.”

Others are worried about a repeat of the last swine flu “pandemic,” now regarded as a public health and public relations debacle.

“I fear that a rush towards vaccinating the population without completing trials risks leading to the harmful outcome that we witnessed during the 1976 swine flu scare, where the government advocated rapid production and vaccination of the population without adequate safeguards, which led to an unexplained increase in cases of Guillain Barré syndrome (GBS), amongst other complications, and massive liability for the government,” wrote Amir Afkhami, MD, PhD, of George Washington University, an international expert on the 1918 Influenza pandemic and an advisor to the U.S. State Department, the U.S. military, and the World Bank on issues pertaining to infectious diseases, public health and, mental health.

“I think in this regard, we must learn from lessons of the past and be mindful of not jumping from the proverbial frying pan into the fire by putting people’s health at risk without adequate production and safety monitoring of the vaccines.”

todd

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Re: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2009, 01:11:21 AM »

In 1976 roughly 40 million Americans received the vaccine and some 4,000 developed GBS.

The printed material that was distributed reiterated these horrific statistics and we were asked to accept the assumption that, “the estimated risk for more serious reactions (e.g. Guillain Barré syndrome) is between 1-10 per million persons vaccinated”.

This is a less direct way of stating that the risk is about the same as existed during the 1976 mass vaccination attempt and that as many as 1 in every 100,000 recipients will develop GBS or some other serious adverse reaction. The CDC is setting up a new intensive surveillance system with which to monitor and track GBS cases that result from the novel H1N1 vaccine.

Merriam-Webster defines assumption as a fact or statement taken for granted and assumed to be true. If we accept the documented assumption presented by the CDC, we are to consider it a fact that 1 in every 100,000 vaccine recipients will suffer a serious adverse effect such as GBS.

This means that if the entire U.S. population is vaccinated (a stated goal of the CDC), we are to assume as a fact that 30,000 Americans will suffer debilitating or lethal side effects. Apparently the CDC considers this an acceptable level of collateral damage.

in 1976, 40 million people were vaccinated, and about 500 cases of gbs reported possibly due to the vaccine (not 4000).  latest stats show that more than 900 people have died from h1n1, not like the 1976 episode where it never reached outside fort dix.  please keep in mind that the flu virus itself can cause gbs.  the vast majority of people recover completely from gbs, but it is quite debilitating and i would not wish it on anyone.  it has been estimated that 30000 people will die from swine flu- the same number who die from seasonal flu each year.  it's your arm, and your body, make an informed choice.
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Riddler

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Re: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2009, 01:06:42 PM »

fuck this.
i just smashed a bunch of thermometers at the hardware store this morning, then washed all the mercury down the storm sewer w/ a garden hose.....
straight to the river...
went home & shot at a case of mercury-laden lightbulbs & fed the mercury dust to my dog
we're having raw tuna for dinner
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atomiccat

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Re: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2009, 02:16:03 PM »

fuck this.
i just smashed a bunch of thermometers at the hardware store this morning, then washed all the mercury down the storm sewer w/ a garden hose.....
straight to the river...
went home & shot at a case of mercury-laden lightbulbs & fed the mercury dust to my dog
we're having raw tuna for dinner

Well the raw tuna might actually be good for you,  But U might be twitching a bit from the mercury.

And more on swine flu

[youtube=425,350]CMqYlnAiIUU[/youtube]

NHArticleTen

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Re: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2009, 11:46:28 AM »

in NY health care workers have a choice...

take the juice or quit and walk away...

and more and more will walk away...

and the ones left will be even more overloaded...

and then they too will walk and run away...

and then there will be none left in NY...

and so the mobocracy will hunt them down and force them to take the juice and enslave them for the health of the looters...

hahahahaha...

RAD

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Libertarianssuck

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Re: One third of doctors do not want swine flu vaccination
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2009, 01:08:27 PM »

your still alive? I thought the swine flu got ya....
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