The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: miamiballoonguy on December 12, 2008, 11:29:00 AM
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Hey guys, I am considering getting my first gun while I still can, including learning to shoot it and eventually get a conceal carry permit here in Florida.
I am looking at getting a revolver for starters, and eventually want to get the civilian version of the P90 (PS-90)(Stargate makes these guns look cool).
FTL Gun people, what type of revolver would you recommend a gun Newbie should get?
Here is a photo of the ps-90.. now that's a cool looking gun.
(http://www.hdps.org/htm/PS90-Fake-suppressor-c.jpg)
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Well, Shaw sold me on a 10/22 rifle for my first gun, and it's in the works right now, but that isn't a handgun. (I can't buy a handgun since I'm under 21.)
EDIT: spelling
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Hey guys, I am considering getting my first gun while I still can, including learning to shoot it and eventually get a conceal carry permit here in Florida.
I am looking at getting a revolver for starters, and eventually want to get the civilian version of the P90 (PS-90)(Stargate makes these guns look cool). FTL Gun people, what type of revolver would you recommend a gun Newbie should get?
get something like a shrouded hammer .38cal "air-weight" type revolver(don't buy a smith unless you get a really good deal...they are overpriced)
Taurus makes some good ones...
you can carry these pretty much all the time...after all, you don't want to be at a gunfight...without a gun...
enjoy!
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Here's my suggestion. Don't shoot yourself with it.
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Here's my suggestion. Don't shoot yourself with it.
I'll make a note of that.
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Here's my suggestion. Don't shoot yourself with it.
I'll make a note of that.
Send a copy that note to Plaxico Burress.
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Get what I got for my first gun:
(http://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/kgp161-c.jpg)
Ruger KGP-161
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good choice. That's what my G'ma keeps in her nightstand. I don't mean that in a bad way. Don't break into G'ma's house.
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Get what I got for my first gun:
(http://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/kgp161-c.jpg)
Ruger KGP-161
That's a nice one...
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Hey guys, I am considering getting my first gun while I still can, including learning to shoot it and eventually get a conceal carry permit here in Florida.
I am looking at getting a revolver for starters, and eventually want to get the civilian version of the P90 (PS-90)(Stargate makes these guns look cool).
FTL Gun people, what type of revolver would you recommend a gun Newbie should get?
Here is a photo of the ps-90.. now that's a cool looking gun.
(http://www.hdps.org/htm/PS90-Fake-suppressor-c.jpg)
It's cooler on TV and video games than it is in real life. Not really accurate past 20 feet, and the muzzle velocity is too low for my taste. I personally don't go for all that wounding shit. I like my rounds to tumble and kill.
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Hey guys, I am considering getting my first gun while I still can, including learning to shoot it and eventually get a conceal carry permit here in Florida.
I am looking at getting a revolver for starters, and eventually want to get the civilian version of the P90 (PS-90)(Stargate makes these guns look cool).
FTL Gun people, what type of revolver would you recommend a gun Newbie should get?
Here is a photo of the ps-90.. now that's a cool looking gun.
(http://www.hdps.org/htm/PS90-Fake-suppressor-c.jpg)
It's cooler on TV and video games than it is in real life. Not really accurate past 20 feet, and the muzzle velocity is too low for my taste. I personally don't go for all that wounding shit. I like my rounds to tumble and kill.
At any rate, the horizontal magazine on the top is a neat trick, if they managed to make it reliable as well.
For revolvers, my first gun was a snub-nosed S&W .357 that I've always been happy with.
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If this gun was around when I got my first one, I would have gotten it. The Taurus Judge. It shoots 45 cal and also shoots 410 shotgun shells. Perfect for home protection.
(http://www.gunsandammomag.com/blog/GAjudgeb_071807A.jpg)
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If this gun was around when I got my first one, I would have gotten it. The Taurus Judge. It shoots 45 cal and also shoots 410 shotgun shells. Perfect for home protection.
(http://www.gunsandammomag.com/blog/GAjudgeb_071807A.jpg)
shotgun shells? geeeeze... i was unaware... but i like...
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I've been told it's not as powerful as you might think, good for close range I hear. Gun experts trump whatever I say.
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I dont know. Look at 1:42 of this video and ask yourself if you would want to get hit by this while breaking into someones house. :lol:
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jl-ZIo-Wztc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jl-ZIo-Wztc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
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Taurus is okay. Don't get anything cheaper.
I would say there are three brands that you'd want to look at.
1. Smith - They're the best, lock or not.
2. Ruger - Heavy duty, very durable, heavy assed trigger.
3. Taurus - Cheaper made S&W knockoffs, but the best knockoffs around.
You might want to check out North American Arms as well, but they're mostly small carry guns.
What NHAT said about hammerless is horseshit unless you plan on shoving a gun into your pocket regularly. Get a good holster with a small button flap over the hammer and you can fire SA, which is much more accurate. Of course, if you do plan on shoving a revolver into you pocket, sans safety (They don't have 'em) I guess a hammerless job would be better.
I'd recommend a J frame Smith, personally. I have a model 60 snub nose with crimson trace laser grips. (Another 150-200 bones, but more than worth it.) Mine is older so it only shoots .38 special, but the newer ones are thicker and will also fire .357 mag.
(http://home.comcast.net/~archindividual/Model60.jpg)
If you get into one of the really light ones, stick with the .38 - Those scandium composite .357's are too light and will punish the shit out of your hand. You won't practice of you're afraid of the thing causing pain.
Again, as I always add, I don't like to show brand partisanship, unless it's to condemn a whole company, but if you were to ask me what I like, again, I own Smith and Ruger, when it comes to revolvers.
That pick I just posted is a gun manufactured in 1979. It works just like a brand new gun. *Shrug* let that be my recommendation, I guess.
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I dont know. Look at 1:42 of this video and ask yourself if you would want to get hit by this while breaking into someones house. :lol:
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jl-ZIo-Wztc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jl-ZIo-Wztc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
What's the recoil like4 on that thing with the shotgun shells vs the bullets?
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Taurus is okay. Don't get anything cheaper.
I would say there are three brands that you'd want to look at.
1. Smith - They're the best, lock or not.
2. Ruger - Heavy duty, very durable, heavy assed trigger.
3. Taurus - Cheaper made S&W knockoffs, but the best knockoffs around.
You might want to check out North American Arms as well, but they're mostly small carry guns.
What NHAT said about hammerless is horseshit unless you plan on shoving a gun into your pocket regularly. Get a good holster with a small button flap over the hammer and you can fire SA, which is much more accurate. Of course, if you do plan on shoving a revolver into you pocket, sans safety (They don't have 'em) I guess a hammerless job would be better.
I'd recommend a J frame Smith, personally. I have a model 60 snub nose with crimson trace laser grips. (Another 150-200 bones, but more than worth it.) Mine is older so it only shoots .38 special, but the newer ones are thicker and will also fire .357 mag.
(http://home.comcast.net/~archindividual/Model60.jpg)
If you get into one of the really light ones, stick with the .38 - Those scandium composite .357's are too light and will punish the shit out of your hand. You won't practice of you're afraid of the thing causing pain.
Again, as I always add, I don't like to show brand partisanship, unless it's to condemn a whole company, but if you were to ask me what I like, again, I own Smith and Ruger, when it comes to revolvers.
That pick I just posted is a gun manufactured in 1979. It works just like a brand new gun. *Shrug* let that be my recommendation, I guess.
Thanks for the info. Since I wiork with my hands, and I am learning a bit every day about guns, I wouldn't want a gun that would hurt my hands or wrists. So how is that s&w pictured on the hands?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O35jrFkTUE
[youtube=425,350]v/8O35jrFkTUE[/youtube]
enjoy
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Thanks for the info. Since I work with my hands, and I am learning a bit every day about guns, I wouldn't want a gun that would hurt my hands or wrists. So how is that s&w pictured on the hands?
It shoots .38 special. It doesn't kick very hard, and the round does the trick.
The trick with S&W is that they use a frame system for their revolvers.
J - Smallest frame revolvers. Good for concealed carry. Comes in anything from .22 to .357 mag.
K and L - Medium frame. Also good for carry, under an overshirt or coat.
N frame - Large frame, open carry sidearms only, pretty much, unless you're wearing a parka. Being from Florida, I doubt you'd want this.
X frame - extra large. These are four or five pounds, unloaded. We're talking .460 magnum and .500 magnum. Don't bother unless you're hunting big game or love big guns just for fun.
J frames are great for carry, like I said. Shoot .38 special in them and you'll never have a problem, hand wise. If you want to shoot .357 mag, get one of the all steel models, like the Model 60 I have. The aluminum and scandium composite are REALLY light and throw all of the equal and opposite reaction right into your hand.
Here's a page where you can shop by frame size- http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=15703
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I wouldn't consider the hands to be important in the decision, unless you're going for the hardcore loads. Almost any guy can handle 38, 380, 9mm. After you crack off a few rounds, its not a big deal. Its like catching a gently thrown baseball, underhand toss.
True, unless you're shooting .357 mag out of one of those scandium jobs. They will mess you up.
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Thanks for the info. Since I work with my hands, and I am learning a bit every day about guns, I wouldn't want a gun that would hurt my hands or wrists. So how is that s&w pictured on the hands?
It shoots .38 special. It doesn't kick very hard, and the round does the trick.
The trick with S&W is that they use a frame system for their revolvers.
J - Smallest frame revolvers. Good for concealed carry. Comes in anything from .22 to .357 mag.
K and L - Medium frame. Also good for carry, under an overshirt or coat.
N frame - Large frame, open carry sidearms only, pretty much, unless you're wearing a parka. Being from Florida, I doubt you'd want this.
X frame - extra large. These are four or five pounds, unloaded. We're talking .460 magnum and .500 magnum. Don't bother unless you're hunting big game or love big guns just for fun.
J frames are great for carry, like I said. Shoot .38 special in them and you'll never have a problem, hand wise. If you want to shoot .357 mag, get one of the all steel models, like the Model 60 I have. The aluminum and scandium composite are REALLY light and throw all of the equal and opposite reaction right into your hand.
Here's a page where you can shop by frame size- http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=15703
cool and thanks. I'm going to be checking out the gun shops in the next few days.... I'll let you know the results. 8-)
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Buy a rifle with a 5.56 or a 7.62 unless you have one already. Uncommon round=your rifle is a $2,000 club. I reccomend an Oympic Arms ar15 carbine.
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Buy a rifle with a 5.56 or a 7.62 unless you have one already. Uncommon round=your rifle is a $2,000 club. I recommend an Oympic Arms ar15 carbine.
He wants a revolver to start with, though.
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Buy a rifle with a 5.56 or a 7.62 unless you have one already. Uncommon round=your rifle is a $2,000 club. I recommend an Oympic Arms ar15 carbine.
He wants a revolver to start with, though.
I cannot comment on a handgun, I live in NY. I just think the p90 is not a good idea.
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I cannot comment on a handgun, I live in NY. I just think the p90 is not a good idea.
Fair enough. I'm not a fan of the 5.7 round myself, just because it's new. Most new rounds usually die off (Or just end up being damned expensive) unless there's something really wild about them.
See - .41 mag, 10mm, .22 wmr, .44spl, etc.
Weird rounds cost more money. Also, the 5.7 is under attack because it's a good round and the primary platform for it (The Five-SeVen) is a pistol. They have been calling them "Cop killers" and "Kevlar Busters" since day one, even though there's isn't a single gangbanger out there who has one of the damned things. Gangbangers don't pay a grand for a gun, and wouldn't even know what ammo to buy for the fucking thing.
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Buy a rifle with a 5.56 or a 7.62 unless you have one already. Uncommon round=your rifle is a $2,000 club. I recommend an Oympic Arms ar15 carbine.
He wants a revolver to start with, though.
I cannot comment on a handgun, I live in NY. I just think the p90 is not a good idea.
Ps 90's are cool.. It's something that I would want to save up for... I'm a big stargate fan, and it's one of the main guns used by most of the military. As a matter of fact, if anyone here is into sci fi and guns, it's the show to watch. I was watching an episode on my appletv and I got to see one of those automatic shotguns in use... And some of the bad guys have these fully automatic pistols that look cool...
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I wouldn't consider the hands to be important in the decision, unless you're going for the hardcore loads. Almost any guy can handle 38, 380, 9mm. After you crack off a few rounds, its not a big deal. Its like catching a gently thrown baseball, underhand toss.
True, unless you're shooting .357 mag out of one of those scandium jobs. They will mess you up.
I think the basic thing to keep in mind is the little stumpy rounds are okay, regardless of size (except 45, they hit pretty hard). The stumpy ones are usually okay, its the elongated cartridges that resemble small rifle rounds where the force has to erupt in a long skinny cylinder and project the bullet with all that contained force behind it. The stumpy stuff is a different sort of detonation than a long round. The powder is still burning as the bullet is traveling down the barrel, and theres just not enough in a stumpy round to make much recoil, only propel the mass forward.
Ok, so what you are saying is that the shorter the round, the less kickback? Could you elaborate on the stumpy bullets? There are so many different types... Can you be a bit more specific?
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Buy a rifle with a 5.56 or a 7.62 unless you have one already. Uncommon round=your rifle is a $2,000 club. I reccomend an Oympic Arms ar15 carbine.
I'm not looking for a rifle... too big, I don't hunt (I've lived in cities my entire life, I know nothing of hunting), and I life in the biggest drug city in the world... There have been a few shootings, parking lot murders, and car jackings within a 2 Mile radius from where I life... I just need something to defend myself with, just in case. This is Miami, the Latin Folks Wild Wild West..
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I cannot comment on a handgun, I live in NY. I just think the p90 is not a good idea.
Fair enough. I'm not a fan of the 5.7 round myself, just because it's new. Most new rounds usually die off (Or just end up being damned expensive) unless there's something really wild about them.
See - .41 mag, 10mm, .22 wmr, .44spl, etc.
Weird rounds cost more money. Also, the 5.7 is under attack because it's a good round and the primary platform for it (The Five-SeVen) is a pistol. They have been calling them "Cop killers" and "Kevlar Busters" since day one, even though there's isn't a single gangbanger out there who has one of the damned things. Gangbangers don't pay a grand for a gun, and wouldn't even know what ammo to buy for the fucking thing.
The Ps-90 is more for shit's and giggles. The revolver is for self defense. For some reason, Revolvers seem a bit more safe for the user. But what the hell do I know? That's why I started this thread..
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The Ps-90 is more for shit's and giggles.
Which is totally cool. They're not bad guns, they just use expensive ammo that may or may not stick around. The gun culture is pretty conservative when it comes to new stuff, and slow moving when it comes to technology. (And for good reason! Testing self defense rounds should be rare!) a good nine out of ten new ammo types die off, and they're almost glacier like in the speed of adoption, with few exceptions. That means expensive because of low demand.
For instance - The .454 Casull was designed in 1959 as a high powered hunting round to replace/enhance the venerable .45 Colt (Long) It is considered a fairly popular hunting round. The adoption rate is maybe ten percent of the .45 Colt, 49 years later, and has already been surpassed by the round that replaces/enhances it. (The .460 magnum) A gun that shoots .460 mag will also shoot .454 Casull and .45 Colt. The .460 mag and .45 Colt are both cheaper than the .454 Casull, (Around the same price for both, 25-28 bucks for 20 rounds, compared to around 35 bucks for 20 rounds of Casull.) even though the .460 mag uses more brass, powder, copper, and lead than the Casull. Supply and demand, etc. But then think of this - You can buy a 500 round box of .22lr, which uses three to four times the brass, lead, powder and so on, for thirteen bucks. Again, demand creates supply.
Expensive ammo = less practice, for most people. Less practice = less mastery.
The revolver is for self defense. For some reason, Revolvers seem a bit more safe for the user.
Well... Yes and no. Revolvers have NO safety mechanism whatsoever. Just a trigger that's harder to pull and less likely to snag and discharge. They're easier to use and maintain, and are a hell of a lot less likely to have mechanical failures of any kind. I like revolvers, so I'm a little biased, but most gun people will agree with me on these points. Revolver hate is mostly directed at the less concealable shape and lower ammo count. Shape doesn't bother me, because a properly carried gun isn't noticeable anyway, especially a J frame, and ammo count, well... If you need more than five rounds to deal with your problem, you either need to practice more or run like hell, because you're fighting off more than two people or you can't aim.
But what the hell do I know? That's why I started this thread..
Don't bag on yourself, you gotta start somewhere.
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Buy a rifle with a 5.56 or a 7.62 unless you have one already. Uncommon round=your rifle is a $2,000 club. I recommend an Olympic Arms ar15 carbine.
He wants a revolver to start with, though.
I cannot comment on a handgun, I live in NY. I just think the p90 is not a good idea.
Ps 90's are cool.. It's something that I would want to save up for... I'm a big stargate fan, and it's one of the main guns used by most of the military. As a matter of fact, if anyone here is into sci fi and guns, it's the show to watch. I was watching an episode on my appletv and I got to see one of those automatic shotguns in use... And some of the bad guys have these fully automatic pistols that look cool...
If cool is the deciding factor buy an airsoft, if you want a primary weapon get a practical round!!! If you want a cool looking gun that's a bull-pup like the p90 with a practical round buy a fn2000. The fn2000 uses 5.56 ammo with a standard ar15 mag.
(http://www.srtarms.com/FN2000_Typhoon4.jpg)
Although I feel a primary rifle needs to be part available. You can buy a ak variant for $500 or a ar15 for $650 and use the $1,000 use saved for optics and bullets (bullets may become hard to get!!!)
As far as Stargate I must say "Daniel son you watch too much TV"
(http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A9187/91879/300_91879.jpg)
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If you're gonna get a bullpup, get one that shoots a real round. :-P
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/rfb.htm
http://www.shortrifles.com/
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I've heard some bull pup conversions can make for a stiff trigger pull. I wouldn't completely rule out 5.56, the stories of the rounds lack of stopping power come from the full jacket ammo (puts a hole straight through ya), soft point wounds are nasty. Hell if you want stopping power get a marlin 30 30 lever action. (http://www.madogre.com/PowerHouse/DSCF0294.JPG)
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I've heard some bull pup conversions can make for a stiff trigger pull.
Make that "All" conversions. They suck. But the weight of a larger gun helps ameliorate the heavy pull's effect on accuracy.
I wouldn't completely rule out 5.56, the stories of the rounds lack of stopping power come from the full jacket ammo (puts a hole straight through ya), soft point wounds are nasty.
It's a cop round. I don't shoot 5.56/.223 for the same reason I don't shoot .40 S&W. Deliberately underpowered for weak, uninterested cop types who are afraid of a large bang or a sore hand. There are positive arguments for those rounds, namely weight, of course. I try not to be a snob about ammo or brands or anything like that, but I have certain criteria... Defense rounds for pistols start at .38 caliber, and rifles start at 30. I'm a big heavy ammo promoter.
I also pretty much hate the AR. The entire design of the platform stinks of bureaucracy and it's history of success versus failure reflects that. Out of the many guns I own, I went ahead and got a Mini-14 rather than an AR for a .223.
Hell if you want stopping power get a marlin 30 30 lever action.
Well, again, .308 makes a 30-30 round look like a paper puncher. Having said that, the 30-30 is better than the .223 by far, so I'll grant you that.
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Buy a rifle with a 5.56 or a 7.62 unless you have one already. Uncommon round=your rifle is a $2,000 club. I recommend an Olympic Arms ar15 carbine.
He wants a revolver to start with, though.
I cannot comment on a handgun, I live in NY. I just think the p90 is not a good idea.
Ps 90's are cool.. It's something that I would want to save up for... I'm a big stargate fan, and it's one of the main guns used by most of the military. As a matter of fact, if anyone here is into sci fi and guns, it's the show to watch. I was watching an episode on my appletv and I got to see one of those automatic shotguns in use... And some of the bad guys have these fully automatic pistols that look cool...
If cool is the deciding factor buy an airsoft, if you want a primary weapon get a practical round!!! If you want a cool looking gun that's a bull-pup like the p90 with a practical round buy a fn2000. The fn2000 uses 5.56 ammo with a standard ar15 mag.
(http://www.srtarms.com/FN2000_Typhoon4.jpg)
Although I feel a primary rifle needs to be part available. You can buy a ak variant for $500 or a ar15 for $650 and use the $1,000 use saved for optics and bullets (bullets may become hard to get!!!)
As far as Stargate I must say "Daniel son you watch too much TV"
(http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A9187/91879/300_91879.jpg)
I'll just keep it simple... A revolver and a PS-90. This one pictured looks to much like a normal machine gun, whereas the p-s90 is somewhere in between a machine gun and a pistol if My research is correct. Since I have no desire to kill bambi, bugs bunny, and daffy duck in the wild, It's a bit more than what I'm looking for. I just need something to keep the riffraf from coming after me, and a cool looking gun....
Oh, and I do watch too much TV on DVD. TV shows on DVD are like Crack.... No Commercials and all episodes right then and there... If you rip em to your itunes library and watch them on your tv, you will not leave your chair for hours on end unless you've got to go to the bathroom. I've got most of my dvd library saved on 3 terrabyte hard drives, and it is beautiful.
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The Ps-90 is more for shit's and giggles.
Which is totally cool. They're not bad guns, they just use expensive ammo that may or may not stick around. The gun culture is pretty conservative when it comes to new stuff, and slow moving when it comes to technology. (And for good reason! Testing self defense rounds should be rare!) a good nine out of ten new ammo types die off, and they're almost glacier like in the speed of adoption, with few exceptions. That means expensive because of low demand.
For instance - The .454 Casull was designed in 1959 as a high powered hunting round to replace/enhance the venerable .45 Colt (Long) It is considered a fairly popular hunting round. The adoption rate is maybe ten percent of the .45 Colt, 49 years later, and has already been surpassed by the round that replaces/enhances it. (The .460 magnum) A gun that shoots .460 mag will also shoot .454 Casull and .45 Colt. The .460 mag and .45 Colt are both cheaper than the .454 Casull, (Around the same price for both, 25-28 bucks for 20 rounds, compared to around 35 bucks for 20 rounds of Casull.) even though the .460 mag uses more brass, powder, copper, and lead than the Casull. Supply and demand, etc. But then think of this - You can buy a 500 round box of .22lr, which uses three to four times the brass, lead, powder and so on, for thirteen bucks. Again, demand creates supply.
Expensive ammo = less practice, for most people. Less practice = less mastery.
The revolver is for self defense. For some reason, Revolvers seem a bit more safe for the user.
Well... Yes and no. Revolvers have NO safety mechanism whatsoever. Just a trigger that's harder to pull and less likely to snag and discharge. They're easier to use and maintain, and are a hell of a lot less likely to have mechanical failures of any kind. I like revolvers, so I'm a little biased, but most gun people will agree with me on these points. Revolver hate is mostly directed at the less concealable shape and lower ammo count. Shape doesn't bother me, because a properly carried gun isn't noticeable anyway, especially a J frame, and ammo count, well... If you need more than five rounds to deal with your problem, you either need to practice more or run like hell, because you're fighting off more than two people or you can't aim.
Well, From my research, I have seen a few revolvers that mentioned something about having some sort of safety mechanisms, but I will take your word on it. Also, with the exception of the safety mechanism, the easier to maintain, fewer mechanical failures, and the fact that you can tell if there is a round in the chamber a lot easier are some of my reasons for going this way. I agree that if 5 or 6 bullets don't do the trick, then it's time to get the hell out of there.
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If you own a house, go ahead and get the rifle for defense.
Condos, apartments, children, and short distances between houses (Say, less than 40 feet) would cause me to urge you to think about a shotgun instead. If you don't have any of those issues, get what you like and can afford to shoot fairly regularly. Shooting isn't like riding a bike though, you HAVE to practice to remain up to par, and if the price is too high to shoot a hundred rounds a month you're gonna be bummed.
With 5.7x28, even in bulk, you're paying forty cents a shot. Ten rounds - four bucks. That's twenty bucks to shoot one magazine. You can do that in less than a minute, shooting slowly. Less than ten seconds if you're screwing around. Just remember that.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0050618216486a&type=product&cm_mmc=CRR-_-RLP-_-216486-_-productname_link&cmCat=CRR&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=5.7x28&cm_ite=netcon&rid=0180101070502
Saiga makes some bad assed shotguns that are based on the AK frame and use high cap magazines. They are probably the coolest, most reliable semiauto shotguns around.
http://www.saiga-12.com/
I mean, it's an AK that shoots shotgun shells!
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Well, From my research, I have seen a few revolvers that mentioned something about having some sort of safety mechanisms, but I will take your word on it. Also, with the exception of the safety mechanism, the easier to maintain, fewer mechanical failures, and the fact that you can tell if there is a round in the chamber a lot easier are some of my reasons for going this way. I agree that if 5 or 6 bullets don't do the trick, then it's time to get the hell out of there.
S&W revolvers have locks on them. Locks that require a key. You aren't gonna be carrying a locked gun and a key, I can assure you.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11%2BZNxy3rDL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
You can also have a custom safety added to a Smith, Ruger, or Taurus. For a couple hundred bones.
My recommendation: Just be safe with your gun, and you'll be fine.
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Also, there's nothing wrong with getting a gun just because it's cool. Get what you like, man. I have a thing for the aesthetics of revolvers. I therefore have a bunch. I think that the revolver is one of the coolest things mankind has ever invented, and that they're just plain beautiful.
(http://home.comcast.net/~archindividual/460v.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~archindividual/RedHawk.jpg)
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If you own a house, go ahead and get the rifle for defense.
Condos, apartments, children, and short distances between houses (Say, less than 40 feet) would cause me to urge you to think about a shotgun instead. If you don't have any of those issues, get what you like and can afford to shoot fairly regularly. Shooting isn't like riding a bike though, you HAVE to practice to remain up to par, and if the price is too high to shoot a hundred rounds a month you're gonna be bummed.
With 5.7x28, even in bulk, you're paying forty cents a shot. Ten rounds - four bucks. That's twenty bucks to shoot one magazine. You can do that in less than a minute, shooting slowly. Less than ten seconds if you're screwing around. Just remember that.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0050618216486a&type=product&cm_mmc=CRR-_-RLP-_-216486-_-productname_link&cmCat=CRR&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=5.7x28&cm_ite=netcon&rid=0180101070502
Saiga makes some bad assed shotguns that are based on the AK frame and use high cap magazines. They are probably the coolest, most reliable semiauto shotguns around.
http://www.saiga-12.com/
I mean, it's an AK that shoots shotgun shells!
I heard somewhere that owning a gun is like getting tattoos.... you can't have just one. Maybe It'll happen to me. Thanks for the info on the cost of the rounds. That is something that I didn't take into consideration. That saiga shotgun looked crazy. I'm not looking into shotguns at the moment. I'm looking into something that I can conceal (With a Florida CC License) and won't kill my hands and wrists when shot.
By the way, JS, Thanks for all the helpful info.
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I heard somewhere that owning a gun is like getting tattoos.... you can't have just one. Maybe It'll happen to me. Thanks for the info on the cost of the rounds. That is something that I didn't take into consideration. That saiga shotgun looked crazy. I'm not looking into shotguns at the moment. I'm looking into something that I can conceal (With a Florida CC License) and won't kill my hands and wrists when shot.
By the way, JS, Thanks for all the helpful info.
Hey, you know I love talking about guns. ;-)
And for concealed, go with what you were planning on. A good J frame (Or Taurus/Ruger knockoff even) will do nicely. You can practice with .38 all day and your hands won't hurt, and when you carry, have some .357 mag in there to get the job done. Sore hands for a day or two is more than worth your life, and the .357 is kinda well known for making big holes.
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Out of the many guns I own, I went ahead and got a Mini-14 rather than an AR for a .223.
Wait, are you saying you DON'T own an AR-15?
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I heard somewhere that owning a gun is like getting tattoos.... you can't have just one. Maybe It'll happen to me. Thanks for the info on the cost of the rounds. That is something that I didn't take into consideration. That saiga shotgun looked crazy. I'm not looking into shotguns at the moment. I'm looking into something that I can conceal (With a Florida CC License) and won't kill my hands and wrists when shot.
By the way, JS, Thanks for all the helpful info.
Hey, you know I love talking about guns. ;-)
And for concealed, go with what you were planning on. A good J frame (Or Taurus/Ruger knockoff even) will do nicely. You can practice with .38 all day and your hands won't hurt, and when you carry, have some .357 mag in there to get the job done. Sore hands for a day or two is more than worth your life, and the .357 is kinda well known for making big holes.
What about an SP-101?
(http://www.derek-ward.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/ruger-sp101q.jpg)
I know, I've become a Ruger fanboy...
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I heard somewhere that owning a gun is like getting tattoos.... you can't have just one. Maybe It'll happen to me. Thanks for the info on the cost of the rounds. That is something that I didn't take into consideration. That saiga shotgun looked crazy. I'm not looking into shotguns at the moment. I'm looking into something that I can conceal (With a Florida CC License) and won't kill my hands and wrists when shot.
By the way, JS, Thanks for all the helpful info.
Hey, you know I love talking about guns. ;-)
And for concealed, go with what you were planning on. A good J frame (Or Taurus/Ruger knockoff even) will do nicely. You can practice with .38 all day and your hands won't hurt, and when you carry, have some .357 mag in there to get the job done. Sore hands for a day or two is more than worth your life, and the .357 is kinda well known for making big holes.
What about an SP-101?
(http://www.derek-ward.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/ruger-sp101q.jpg)
I know, I've become a Ruger fanboy...
Well, once I can make it to the gun shops and range to start checking them out, but I'm proably leaning s&w just because they have that classic look to them... But I'm sure that I will get a better idea when I get to the gun shops and ranges... I still need to do a little more research ust so that I can understand the lingo so to speak.
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I heard somewhere that owning a gun is like getting tattoos.... you can't have just one. Maybe It'll happen to me. Thanks for the info on the cost of the rounds. That is something that I didn't take into consideration. That saiga shotgun looked crazy. I'm not looking into shotguns at the moment. I'm looking into something that I can conceal (With a Florida CC License) and won't kill my hands and wrists when shot.
By the way, JS, Thanks for all the helpful info.
Hey, you know I love talking about guns. ;-)
And for concealed, go with what you were planning on. A good J frame (Or Taurus/Ruger knockoff even) will do nicely. You can practice with .38 all day and your hands won't hurt, and when you carry, have some .357 mag in there to get the job done. Sore hands for a day or two is more than worth your life, and the .357 is kinda well known for making big holes.
I dunno, I just get paranoid about my hands... With a hand or wrist injury I'm out of commission and can't do balloons or posibly even use a computer.
anyways, what are your thoughts on single Action vs double action?
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Wait, are you saying you DON'T own an AR-15?
Not a single one. Used to. Sold it to help pay for my LRB custom M-14. I won, believe me.
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What about an SP-101?
I know, I've become a Ruger fanboy...
Ruger makes great guns. Trigger is heavy, everything else is heavy too, for that matter, but I place them #2 to Smith for revolvers.
Oh, and fuck Colt.
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I dunno, I just get paranoid about my hands... With a hand or wrist injury I'm out of commission and can't do balloons or possibly even use a computer.
Well, I can understand that. I paint, sculpt and do other fine motor stuff. I also shoot a couple hundred rounds a week. Shooting guns won't wreck your hands up, unless you're firing heavy rounds from a really light gun. (Odds are high you won't be doing this.)
Shooting a .38 out of a J Frame is perfectly comfortable. Less stress than swinging a hammer. Shooting .357 out of a J frame is about the same as swinging a hammer. Frankly, 9mm is snappier than .38 spl. You won't have problems. If you're really worried about it, get one of the larger frames in the same caliber. I have a 686 that is twice as heavy as the model 60, and has half the kick.
anyways, what are your thoughts on single Action vs double action?
You don't want a Single Action Only. Get yourself a DA/SA gun. SAO is for cowboys and shit. You don't want to have to cock that thing each time you want to fire.
Go and try out both the 686 and the 60. There are a ton of other J and L frames, but stainless steel is the way to go with a carry gun. Shoot both .38spl and .357mag out of both. Give the Rugers a try. Set the target at 21 feet or less and see how you like them.
I predict -
A. You will like the 686 more than the 60.
B. You will end up buying something like the 60, because of the size.
Here's a size comparison - Bottom, Model 60 (J frame) Middle, Model 686 (L Frame) Top, Model 460V (X Frame)
(http://home.comcast.net/~archindividual/SmithRevolvers.jpg)
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I dunno, I just get paranoid about my hands... With a hand or wrist injury I'm out of commission and can't do balloons or possibly even use a computer.
Well, I can understand that. I paint, sculpt and do other fine motor stuff. I also shoot a couple hundred rounds a week. Shooting guns won't wreck your hands up, unless you're firing heavy rounds from a really light gun. (Odds are high you won't be doing this.)
Shooting a .38 out of a J Frame is perfectly comfortable. Less stress than swinging a hammer. Shooting .357 out of a J frame is about the same as swinging a hammer. Frankly, 9mm is snappier than .38 spl. You won't have problems. If you're really worried about it, get one of the larger frames in the same caliber. I have a 686 that is twice as heavy as the model 60, and has half the kick.
anyways, what are your thoughts on single Action vs double action?
You don't want a Single Action Only. Get yourself a DA/SA gun. SAO is for cowboys and shit. You don't want to have to cock that thing each time you want to fire.
Go and try out both the 686 and the 60. There are a ton of other J and L frames, but stainless steel is the way to go with a carry gun. Shoot both .38spl and .357mag out of both. Give the Rugers a try. Set the target at 21 feet or less and see how you like them.
I predict -
A. You will like the 686 more than the 60.
B. You will end up buying something like the 60, because of the size.
Here's a size comparison - Bottom, Model 60 (J frame) Middle, Model 686 (L Frame) Top, Model 460V (X Frame)
(http://home.comcast.net/~archindividual/SmithRevolvers.jpg)
Dude, how many guns do you own? LOL my brother walked in and saw me reading your post... He's taking me to the gun range in Hialeah on monday to go and start shooting guns. I'll play around a few revolvers. That 686 looks about right. If they have one there, that's the first one I'll try.
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Dude, how many guns do you own?
More than 30. Less than 200. :P
LOL my brother walked in and saw me reading your post... He's taking me to the gun range in Hialeah on monday to go and start shooting guns. I'll play around a few revolvers. That 686 looks about right. If they have one there, that's the first one I'll try.
It's a great gun. Mine was made in 1982 or so and you can't tell it wasn't made yesterday, apart from the lack of a lock. Have fun and enjoy your practice run!
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Dude, how many guns do you own?
More than 30. Less than 200. :P
LOL my brother walked in and saw me reading your post... He's taking me to the gun range in Hialeah on monday to go and start shooting guns. I'll play around a few revolvers. That 686 looks about right. If they have one there, that's the first one I'll try.
It's a great gun. Mine was made in 1982 or so and you can't tell it wasn't made yesterday, apart from the lack of a lock. Have fun and enjoy your practice run!
I can't wait... Here is the link to the place where we are going to go if you want to check ut the place. http://www.floridagun.com/
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I can't wait... Here is the link to the place where we are going to go if you want to check ut the place. http://www.floridagun.com/
I think I know the owner. He goes by Gatorfarmer over at the S&W forum.
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I can't wait... Here is the link to the place where we are going to go if you want to check ut the place. http://www.floridagun.com/
I think I know the owner. He goes by Gatorfarmer over at the S&W forum.
It's a small world after all.
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I've heard some bull pup conversions can make for a stiff trigger pull.
Make that "All" conversions. They suck. But the weight of a larger gun helps ameliorate the heavy pull's effect on accuracy.
I wouldn't completely rule out 5.56, the stories of the rounds lack of stopping power come from the full jacket ammo (puts a hole straight through ya), soft point wounds are nasty.
It's a cop round. I don't shoot 5.56/.223 for the same reason I don't shoot .40 S&W. Deliberately underpowered for weak, uninterested cop types who are afraid of a large bang or a sore hand. There are positive arguments for those rounds, namely weight, of course. I try not to be a snob about ammo or brands or anything like that, but I have certain criteria... Defense rounds for pistols start at .38 caliber, and rifles start at 30. I'm a big heavy ammo promoter.
I also pretty much hate the AR. The entire design of the platform stinks of bureaucracy and it's history of success versus failure reflects that. Out of the many guns I own, I went ahead and got a Mini-14 rather than an AR for a .223.
Hell if you want stopping power get a marlin 30 30 lever action.
Well, again, .308 makes a 30-30 round look like a paper puncher. Having said that, the 30-30 is better than the .223 by far, so I'll grant you that.
The full metal jacket 5.56 and 7.62 as far as I understand were designed to "wound a 160lb man" to accomplish "taking three men out of the fight, one wounded with two to carry him off the field". If you wish to splatter your target, hit em with a shotgun slug or rifle used for hunting deer. The ar15 is part available as well as having a abundant supply of cheap large capacity mags. Its simple, accurate and with m4 feed ramps very reliable. The ammo is cheap and the platform is optics friendly. I completely agree the m16 family is political but so is the reason to own one.
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The full metal jacket 5.56 and 7.62 as far as I understand were designed to "wound a 160lb man" to accomplish "taking three men out of the fight, one wounded with two to carry him off the field". If you wish to splatter your target, hit em with a shotgun slug or rifle used for hunting deer. The ar15 is part available as well as having a abundant supply of cheap large capacity mags. Its simple, accurate and with m4 feed ramps very reliable. The ammo is cheap and the platform is optics friendly. I completely agree the m16 family is political but so is the reason to own one.
5.56, yes. 7.62x39, no.
And I'm talking about 7.62x51, not 39. That is the NATO designation for the .308 Winchester, with slightly more brass and a tiny bit less power. It is not made for wounding. It is made for placing a 30 caliber, 200 grain round through a cinderblock wall and then a person at 300 yards.
And the AR platform breaks. I don't use guns that break easily.
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I've heard some bull pup conversions can make for a stiff trigger pull.
Make that "All" conversions. They suck. But the weight of a larger gun helps ameliorate the heavy pull's effect on accuracy.
I wouldn't completely rule out 5.56, the stories of the rounds lack of stopping power come from the full jacket ammo (puts a hole straight through ya), soft point wounds are nasty.
It's a cop round. I don't shoot 5.56/.223 for the same reason I don't shoot .40 S&W. Deliberately underpowered for weak, uninterested cop types who are afraid of a large bang or a sore hand. There are positive arguments for those rounds, namely weight, of course. I try not to be a snob about ammo or brands or anything like that, but I have certain criteria... Defense rounds for pistols start at .38 caliber, and rifles start at 30. I'm a big heavy ammo promoter.
I also pretty much hate the AR. The entire design of the platform stinks of bureaucracy and it's history of success versus failure reflects that. Out of the many guns I own, I went ahead and got a Mini-14 rather than an AR for a .223.
Hell if you want stopping power get a marlin 30 30 lever action.
Well, again, .308 makes a 30-30 round look like a paper puncher. Having said that, the 30-30 is better than the .223 by far, so I'll grant you that.
The full metal jacket 5.56 and 7.62 as far as I understand were designed to "wound a 160lb man" to accomplish "taking three men out of the fight, one wounded with two to carry him off the field". If you wish to splatter your target, hit em with a shotgun slug or rifle used for hunting deer. The ar15 is part available as well as having a abundant supply of cheap large capacity mags. Its simple, accurate and with m4 feed ramps very reliable. The ammo is cheap and the platform is optics friendly. I completely agree the m16 family is political but so is the reason to own one.
is it legal to own an m16?
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Yes, there's a big annual fee though. You don't want one anyway. There are better options if you're gonna put up the dough for a full-auto.
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Yes, there's a big annual fee though.
And the gun is close to five grand.
You don't want one anyway.
Indeed.
There are better options if you're gonna put up the dough for a full-auto.
Indeed 2.0
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The full metal jacket 5.56 and 7.62 as far as I understand were designed to "wound a 160lb man" to accomplish "taking three men out of the fight, one wounded with two to carry him off the field". If you wish to splatter your target, hit em with a shotgun slug or rifle used for hunting deer. The ar15 is part available as well as having a abundant supply of cheap large capacity mags. Its simple, accurate and with m4 feed ramps very reliable. The ammo is cheap and the platform is optics friendly. I completely agree the m16 family is political but so is the reason to own one.
5.56, yes. 7.62x39, no.
And I'm talking about 7.62x51, not 39. That is the NATO designation for the .308 Winchester, with slightly more brass and a tiny bit less power. It is not made for wounding. It is made for placing a 30 caliber, 200 grain round through a cinderblock wall and then a person at 300 yards.
And the AR platform breaks. I don't use guns that break easily.
Most NATO rounds that are used in assault rifles are made to wound, because of all that political Geneva crap. Take it from me, someone who has used the 5.56 round extensively against actual people, there is only a few places I am for, and its not center mass.
if it was a static target (standing still and shooting at me) I would aim for the legs. Period, If you are laying on your back, you can't hit me. Moving targets, I aim for the heart or about the waist area, because I had my windage settings changed so that my post was down a couple more rotations than needed so that hopefully I shot their dick off. A bullet even grazing your nuts is gonna take you out the fight, period.
.308's are hunting rifles, aren't they? What always killed me is that we can't use the .50 cal machine gun to shoot people. That's always been a sore spot with me. To me, if you are in combat, I feel a round the size of your hand should definitely do the trick.
But seriously, I think the next platform of weapons should either involve 7.62 or the same round they use for Barrett sniper rifles(.50 cal). Yeah, they are inaccurate from the short barrel of an assault rifle, but most fights aren't at the distances they train you for in urban environments. I swear to God, most of my training was oriented for jungles and shit, and I joined in 2003, after the invasion, so it should have been clear that we are going to be fighting in urban environments, PLUS our military is supposed ot used for defense, and I am pretty sure most of our population density is in urban environments.
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*Shrug* They did the same shit in 1992, back when I was a government slave.
Pisspoor training and the military go hand in hand.
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I dont know. Look at 1:42 of this video and ask yourself if you would want to get hit by this while breaking into someones house. :lol:
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What's the recoil like4 on that thing with the shotgun shells vs the bullets?
Seemed to me just a bit more recoil with the 410 shells, but still not that bad. The reason I suggest this for home protection is the fact that unless youre a pretty good shot with a revolver, you run the risk of missing your target. With this thing, you can pretty much hit your target in the dark and it has the same effect as a sawed off shotgun, yet its legal.
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Seemed to me just a bit more recoil with the 410 shells, but still not that bad. The reason I suggest this for home protection is the fact that unless youre a pretty good shot with a revolver, you run the risk of missing your target. With this thing, you can pretty much hit your target in the dark and it has the same effect as a sawed off shotgun, yet its legal.
Dear god no.
Shotguns need to be aimed. At 21 feet, they have a four inch pattern. Most people do not have rooms bigger than that size.
Please please please don't perpetuate this myth.
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Seemed to me just a bit more recoil with the 410 shells, but still not that bad. The reason I suggest this for home protection is the fact that unless youre a pretty good shot with a revolver, you run the risk of missing your target. With this thing, you can pretty much hit your target in the dark and it has the same effect as a sawed off shotgun, yet its legal.
Dear god no.
Shotguns need to be aimed. At 21 feet, they have a four inch pattern. Most people do not have rooms bigger than that size.
Please please please don't perpetuate this myth.
Just watch the vid. It explains the bigger pattern with shorter distance.
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Seemed to me just a bit more recoil with the 410 shells, but still not that bad. The reason I suggest this for home protection is the fact that unless youre a pretty good shot with a revolver, you run the risk of missing your target. With this thing, you can pretty much hit your target in the dark and it has the same effect as a sawed off shotgun, yet its legal.
Dear god no.
Shotguns need to be aimed. At 21 feet, they have a four inch pattern. Most people do not have rooms bigger than that size.
Please please please don't perpetuate this myth.
Just watch the vid. It explains the bigger pattern with shorter distance.
I watched it. What I see is a one and a half inch to two inch spread, and a lot of matte blown off of the hi viz by powder. I'm just sayin.
Also, .410 is better than harsh words, but not by much. I suppose one of the newer five pellet 00 rounds, but for what it's worth, a regular old .45 colt round would work better, frankly.
Don't get me wrong, it's a cool gun, but it's not a real manstopper with .410
Please read the Box O' Truth on the Judge. It will be very informative.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
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that was extremely informative. I've made my decision not to buy this gun. I don't plan on shooting snakes or birds or cardboard boxes with snakes on them.
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Saiga makes some bad assed shotguns that are based on the AK frame and use high cap magazines. They are probably the coolest, most reliable semiauto shotguns around.
http://www.saiga-12.com/
I mean, it's an AK that shoots shotgun shells!
Motherfucking THIS! I just got my converted S12 and I am dying to try it out. But, they are getting rare nowadays, and mags are nigh impossible to find with the Obamanation freaking out all us 'gun nuts'.
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On the P90 and the 5.7 - My friend got one of these and I had a chance to shoot it back in September. It's a pretty fun little gun. It kicks like a .22 and seemed fairly accurate to me. It has a 16" inch barrel and a flat trajectory. However, we were just using iron sights that were mounted to the rail, which I thought were hard to use because they were too close together and I found it hard to focus on the front sight and the target at the same time. So IMO, the P90 really needs some kind of optics - I'd personally go with a reflex or holosight. One of my main complaints of bull pups has always been that the shells get ejected right next to your face - nothing like a choking on gun powder after you unload a mag. But, the P90's downward ejection fixed that annoyance. Also I don't remember too well, but I think the trigger was pretty decent for a bull pup. Overall, I'd say it was a very fun gun.
From what I understand the 5.7 is a fast round designed to pierce armor; basically a 5.56 with less powder. It's main purpose was to provide tank drivers and other military drivers with a decent weapon that was small enough to be carried and operated in close quarters - i.e. while driving a vehicle.
Also, they are now making AR uppers in 5.7. Takes the same mags as the P90 and ejects down the mag well. They are kind of expensive though, and you'd need an AR lower first.
But as stated earlier in the thread I would rather have a .223, .308, 9mm, .45, 12ga, etc... That exotic ammo is cool, but it's expensive and generally not any better that standard calibers. However, I have to disagree about the .40; that's a decent in-between round and not expensive at all.
For the handgun discussion. Meh... I've never been a huge fan of revolvers; I prefer semi-auto SA/DA pistols. But, that's just me. :P
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However, I have to disagree about the .40; that's a decent in-between round and not expensive at all.
Disagree that it's a cop round, or disagree that it's a compromise round created because the Feds who it was designed for were too wimpy to handle the 10mm?
I didn't say that the round was bad. I said I wouldn't buy it.
Also, it was a solution looking for a problem.
They made the 10mm, which is a great round. It has the snap and trajectory of a 9mm with a similar mass to a .45acp. Very cool. Then the goober Feds who it was primarily designed for cried about how it kicked too hard and was too hard to recover aim, which was the same problem they complained about with the .45acp.
So they shortened it, and lowered the power, removing the primary positive aspects of the round, and called it .40S&W.
I can do the same thing with a heavier +P 9mm hollow point for less money and not have the personal annoyance of buying into a spook round.
For the handgun discussion. Meh... I've never been a huge fan of revolvers; I prefer semi-auto SA/DA pistols.
I prefer guns I like. Some are revolvers, some are bottom feeders. It's all about having the right tool for the job, and secondarily, what aesthetically pleases me. A revolver can do many things that a semiauto cannot, and vice versa. Can't kill a deer with a semiauto, unless you're nutty enough to spent the two grand on a dumb Desert Eagle and load it with .44mag or .50ae. Easier to reload for revolver rounds, easier to experiment with loads, etc.
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John Shaw should be the name of the guy in Grand Theft Auto: Michigan who you learn how to shoot guns from.
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John Shaw should be the name of the guy in Grand Theft Auto: Michigan who you learn how to shoot guns from.
I've been bitching for years that they should have made a Grand Theft Auto: Motor City
I mean, it's a frigging CAR game. Not only that, but the crime rates plus the multiple areas (Urban, Suburban, Rural) are well represented.
I'd love to blow shit up on the 696/275 interchange.
And yes, I could be the crazy coot whut teaches to shoot!
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I don't know why someone's not creating a Grand Theft Auto: USA. . . you could have different teams working on different cities. . .it'd be so cool.
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Disagree that it's a cop round, or disagree that it's a compromise round created because the Feds who it was designed for were too wimpy to handle the 10mm?
Perhaps I miss understood, I thought that you were claiming that the .40 was too exotic for general use or as a first hand gun. Price wise, it's pretty much dead in the middle of 9mm and .45, and functionally it is as well. It has more power than the 9mm, but a greater magazine capacity than the .45. I guess I never gave much thought to the political motivations behind the .40. Just seemed like it fit nicely between two very popular calibers.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of the .357 SIG round. It's a great round - trajectory, muzzle velocity, ft-lbs, and its ballistics are very close to a .357 Magnum. Hell yeah! But when it costs $25 a box, it takes a lot of the fun out of shooting it. :D And I don't have any desire to spend time and money reloading. So I only use it for home defense and switch the barrel to 9mm for range/target time.
I prefer guns I like. Some are revolvers, some are bottom feeders. It's all about having the right tool for the job, and secondarily, what aesthetically pleases me. A revolver can do many things that a semiauto cannot, and vice versa. Can't kill a deer with a semiauto, unless you're nutty enough to spent the two grand on a dumb Desert Eagle and load it with .44mag or .50ae. Easier to reload for revolver rounds, easier to experiment with loads, etc.
Well like I said, it's just what I prefer, and I don't hunt or reload. However, I definitely agree revolvers and semi-autos both have their place. I guess I just prefer more of the tactical end of the spectrum.
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I love my S&W 686 .357 Magnum.
Cheaper and just as well made is the ruger revolvers. Ruger is a damn good company and their revolvers are extremely well made. Look em up.
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Didn't Ruger pull some uncool shit a few years back? Something about favoring the Big Black Scary Weapons Ban, I think. My memory's fuzzy, so correct me if I'm factually wrong, but if I'm even vaguely close to being right then fuck them forever.
It'd be more difficult to say that if I didn't like semiautos more than revolvers, but I'd still say it.
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Didn't Ruger pull some uncool shit a few years back? Something about favoring the Big Black Scary Weapons Ban, I think. My memory's fuzzy, so correct me if I'm factually wrong, but if I'm even vaguely close to being right then fuck them forever.
It'd be more difficult to say that if I didn't like semiautos more than revolvers, but I'd still say it.
They limited their first party magazine capacity on rifles to ten rounds. *Shrug*
Smith took more flak for putting locks on their guns at the same time.
And it was all about liability. Manufacturers were threatened (By the by Bush the Sr./Clinton administration) that gun manufacturers would be looking at a law permitting anyone to file suit against a gun manufacturer for wrongful death if someone was killed with their guns, if they didn't comply with a laundry list of demands regarding "scary" attributes of their guns.
Ruger and Smith buckled a bit. Can't blame them. At the time, they were worried about getting completely shut down.
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Didn't Ruger pull some uncool shit a few years back? Something about favoring the Big Black Scary Weapons Ban, I think. My memory's fuzzy, so correct me if I'm factually wrong, but if I'm even vaguely close to being right then fuck them forever.
It'd be more difficult to say that if I didn't like semiautos more than revolvers, but I'd still say it.
They limited their first party magazine capacity on rifles to ten rounds. *Shrug*
Smith took more flak for putting locks on their guns at the same time.
And it was all about liability. Manufacturers were threatened (By the by Bush the Sr./Clinton administration) that gun manufacturers would be looking at a law permitting anyone to file suit against a gun manufacturer for wrongful death if someone was killed with their guns, if they didn't comply with a laundry list of demands regarding "scary" attributes of their guns.
Ruger and Smith buckled a bit. Can't blame them. At the time, they were worried about getting completely shut down.
IIRC, smith isn't owned by the same people as when it "caved" to the gooberment...
ruger on the other hand...
still...buy used from some widow's closet and...
ENJOY!
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IIRC, smith isn't owned by the same people as when it "caved" to the gooberment...
It is owned by the people who designed the locks. Saf-T-Hammer.
ruger on the other hand...
Or just respect their business decisions.
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John,
and whomever else has some knowlegable advise....
looking for a suggestion for a bottom feeder, will be mainly a range gun but want it to do double duty as a defense gun secondary to the shotgun. Still in school so budget is a HUGE consideration. No glocks, friend has a glock g26 and a 23, neither felt right (handle too small). No concerns about conceal carry or keeping it concealable, actually my favorite range gun to date is a beretta u22 neo but I'd like something more acceptable for defense. Also, which shop in this area would you send a newb to?
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I like my SW40VE Sigma. It's a direct knockoff of the Glock .40. I'm very happy with mine although the trigger is pretty firm (yet easy to fix) when you get it, feels like a DAO revolver. They can be had for under 300 bucks new, and are basically S&W Glocks.