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Author Topic: Muslims slaughter a bunch of christians (mostly women & children)What a Shocker  (Read 26601 times)

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libertylover

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103 murders in NY city this year so far alone.  Also a gang raped a 7 year old NJ girl in NY.  Should we consider all New Yorker's murders and rapist just based on these reports?  According to your warped logic we should.

The rape occurred in a ghetto. I'll assume that a majority of the 103 murders also occurred in ghettos. Logic would (does) suggest that ghettos are inhabited by a significant amount of violent people. Refusing to use logic is illogical.
The vast majority of the events happened in WAR ZONES and just like your ghetto analogy.  Logic would (does) suggest that WAR ZONES are violent places.  So you and all the bigots who paint an entire religion with this broad brush are refusing that logic.
The web site you got that list from is obviously a well funded propaganda outlet.
Why is a list of events considered propaganda?
Many use words intended to manipulate the reader.  One person's terrorist might be another person's freedom fighter.  Additionally, I was talking about the over all website and not just the list.

The lack of details presented in a list using misleading descriptions should always be suspected of being generated for propaganda value.

If a mugger attacks you and shoots you because you did not fork over the cash it is a crime.  However, if a mugger in an Islamic country attacks another person and shoots them because they didn't hand over the cash it is called terrorism.  Just because the list says it was terrorism.  How can that be believed without any details.  Many on the list could have been criminal efforts with no political motivation.  It is just being listed that way.  You will probably point to the kidnappings of several people as some sort of proof of terrorism.   But that is not a conclusion based on anything presented in the list.  Mexican gangs have been guilty of kidnapping multiple people for ransom only for their desperate families to find out that their loved ones were murdered.  I am certain their victims felt terror the families felt terror but there the motive was financial and not political.  Off a list how can we be so sure that people are not being kidnapped for financial reason?  It seems to me most criminal activity in an Islamic country or perpetrated by a Muslim is labeled terrorism.  And through misrepresentation these criminal acts are being used as propaganda with the purpose of justifying more wars.

Many places have banned the site because of the obvious racism it promotes.
I haven't looked at the site in detail, but "Islam" isn't a race.
Neither is Judaism but if you criticize the Israeli policy you are called a racist.  But please by all means.  What would you call the irrational bigotry against an entire religion based on what some radicals in that religion do.  Bigoted propaganda which is spread with the intention of directing hate at an entire population of people who belong to that same faith?   And it is really sad to see how many idiots are all but ready and willing to feed their own bigotry as others use them to justify wars.

Another example of information manipulation:

In the west a man beats his wife.  Wife refuses to press charges because he is the sole provider for the family.  We call her a batter woman.  The man's religion is never presented as a motivation for the beating unless the family happens to be Islamic.  When I lived in South Korea it was culturally accepted for men to beat their wives.  South Korea is and was not an Islamic country.  This may have changed by now as the Koreans have been exposed to more and more western culture.  And there are other non-Islamic countries where this practice is culturally accepted and we are not at war with them.  Yet the propagandist use this as a reason to hate all people of the Islamic faith.  So should we have stopped trading with South Korea over this issue and why isn't it brought up in every country were abuse against women is ignored.  In Brazil violence against women is rarely prosecuted as a crime.  It wasn't so very long ago in our history when men had no fear of criminal charges for beating their wives. 

My point is you will find that there are horrible people in every group who do horrible things.  Some even attempt to use their religion or their interpretation of their religion as justification.  But this does not mean the whole group is guilty.
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hellbilly

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103 murders in NY city this year so far alone.  Also a gang raped a 7 year old NJ girl in NY.  Should we consider all New Yorker's murders and rapist just based on these reports?  According to your warped logic we should.

The rape occurred in a ghetto. I'll assume that a majority of the 103 murders also occurred in ghettos. Logic would (does) suggest that ghettos are inhabited by a significant amount of violent people. Refusing to use logic is illogical.
The vast majority of the events happened in WAR ZONES and just like your ghetto analogy.  Logic would (does) suggest that WAR ZONES are violent places.  So you and all the bigots who paint an entire religion with this broad brush are refusing that logic.


I don't care if the events take place in a war zone or not.

Quote
The web site you got that list from is obviously a well funded propaganda outlet.
Why is a list of events considered propaganda?
Many use words intended to manipulate the reader.  One person's terrorist might be another person's freedom fighter.  Additionally, I was talking about the over all website and not just the list.

The lack of details presented in a list using misleading descriptions should always be suspected of being generated for propaganda value.

If a mugger attacks you and shoots you because you did not fork over the cash it is a crime.  However, if a mugger in an Islamic country attacks another person and shoots them because they didn't hand over the cash it is called terrorism.  Just because the list says it was terrorism.  How can that be believed without any details.  Many on the list could have been criminal efforts with no political motivation.  It is just being listed that way.  You will probably point to the kidnappings of several people as some sort of proof of terrorism.   But that is not a conclusion based on anything presented in the list.  Mexican gangs have been guilty of kidnapping multiple people for ransom only for their desperate families to find out that their loved ones were murdered.  I am certain their victims felt terror the families felt terror but there the motive was financial and not political.  Off a list how can we be so sure that people are not being kidnapped for financial reason?  It seems to me most criminal activity in an Islamic country or perpetrated by a Muslim is labeled terrorism.  And through misrepresentation these criminal acts are being used as propaganda with the purpose of justifying more wars.


Not really possible for either you or I to verify the accounts in the list, but I'll go with my gut on this one.

Quote
Many places have banned the site because of the obvious racism it promotes.
I haven't looked at the site in detail, but "Islam" isn't a race.
Neither is Judaism but if you criticize the Israeli policy you are called a racist.  But please by all means.  What would you call the irrational bigotry against an entire religion based on what some radicals in that religion do.  Bigoted propaganda which is spread with the intention of directing hate at an entire population of people who belong to that same faith?   And it is really sad to see how many idiots are all but ready and willing to feed their own bigotry as others use them to justify wars.

Another example of information manipulation:

In the west a man beats his wife.  Wife refuses to press charges because he is the sole provider for the family.  We call her a batter woman.  The man's religion is never presented as a motivation for the beating unless the family happens to be Islamic.  When I lived in South Korea it was culturally accepted for men to beat their wives.  South Korea is and was not an Islamic country.  This may have changed by now as the Koreans have been exposed to more and more western culture.  And there are other non-Islamic countries where this practice is culturally accepted and we are not at war with them.  Yet the propagandist use this as a reason to hate all people of the Islamic faith.  So should we have stopped trading with South Korea over this issue and why isn't it brought up in every country were abuse against women is ignored.  In Brazil violence against women is rarely prosecuted as a crime.  It wasn't so very long ago in our history when men had no fear of criminal charges for beating their wives. 

My point is you will find that there are horrible people in every group who do horrible things.  Some even attempt to use their religion or their interpretation of their religion as justification.  But this does not mean the whole group is guilty.

I only call the lady at Waffle House "batter woman". She don't mind.

No one has said that the entire group of people is guilty.
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Riddler

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name another religion that has women & children strapping explosives to themselves.....


tick
tock
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libertylover

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name another religion that has women & children strapping explosives to themselves.....


tick
tock


Israel's First ever Suicide Bomber was a Jewish Young Lady!  Final death toll is 12, with 11 injured. The Female Jewish terrorist has been identified as
Sima Fleishhaker-Hoizman
Source: The Daily New, Perth, Western Australia
31 October 1946

Before that followers of the Shinto religion justified suicide in-order to kill ones enemy.  You might better know these suicide bombers as kamikazes.  

Western culture military units are sent out on suicide missions with little hope of coming back alive and their objective was usually to take out or bomb an installation.  

Aum Shinrikyo a religious cult used members to carry out sarin gas attacks in crowded civilian areas which killed the carrier as well as several other people.  While not an explosive device the goal was to kill as many as possible.

Not so sure there is a moral high ground for the proxy bombs the IRA used.  Provisional IRA campaign 1969-1997, the IRA used the tactic it called the the "proxy bomb" -a sort of involuntary suicide bomb, where a victim was kidnapped and forced to drive a car bomb into its target. In one infamous operation in Derry in 1990, the PIRA chained a Catholic civilian to a car laden with explosives, held his family hostage and forced him to drive to a British Army checkpoint as a "human bomb" where the bomb exploded, killing himself and five soldiers. This practice was stopped due to the revulsion its caused among the Irish nationalist community.

Also in the line of proxy bombing it was alleged that Nazis strapped bombs to little kids and sent them into enemy camps or headquarters.  Also during the war spies would have a tooth drilled out and a small cyanide tablet inserted so that they could kill themselves if it looked as though they would be captured. 

It is not just children in women who done this sort of suicide mission.  Actually until very recently it was mostly men who would become suicide bombers.  But it is more or less the tactic of the underdog.  The combatant that doesn't have a highly financed military.  Most of the historic examples of suicide bombing reflect this fact.  It is all part of blow back and falls within the realm of guerilla warfare.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 04:05:26 PM by libertylover »
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libertylover

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I don't care if the events take place in a war zone or not.

But somehow ghetto is suppose to dismiss the murder and violence rate in New York.

Not really possible for either you or I to verify the accounts in the list, but I'll go with my gut on this one.
Your gut is being mislead by people who want to instigate and profit from more war.
I bet the women in Japan who jumped off the cliffs with their babies in their arms after the Japanese news told them if Japan should lose American's would cook their infants and eat them.  Now how did they get this idea.  English literature was taken out of context and sold to them as being part of our cultural norm.   
 “What an excellent cook!”
    ~ Captain Cook on Jonathan Swift

    “I love babies yes I do, will you eat one with me too?”
    ~ Oscar Wilde on Swift's "Down Home Baby Cookbook", 3rd Edition

In the west we recognize it as satire and a criticism of the inhuman treatment of the Irish by the British during the potato famine.  Swift was saying for all the British cared the Irish should eat their babies so that they did not starve.  The majority of the Japanese had no idea that this was intended as a criticism and that no one was really saying people should cannibalize infants.

My point is you will find that there are horrible people in every group who do horrible things.  Some even attempt to use their religion or their interpretation of their religion as justification.  But this does not mean the whole group is guilty.

I only call the lady at Waffle House "batter woman". She don't mind.

No one has said that the entire group of people is guilty.

First off you are smart enough to know that was a typo for battered woman. 

This thread was started with the intent of saying all Muslims are evil.  No explanation the incident happened in a war zone or that is was a retaliation for a prior raid in an on going conflict between the two groups in that area.
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davann

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The web site you got that list from is obviously a well funded propaganda outlet.

This is why I gave up. Riddler has gone so far down the rabbit hole we should just call him Alice. He mistakenly assumed he "won". I do not consider those that are played so well as being winners.
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hellbilly

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I don't care if the events take place in a war zone or not.

But somehow ghetto is suppose to dismiss the murder and violence rate in New York.

No, not at all. Violence in the ghetto is a familiar occurrence, part of daily life, and even has it's own flavah. The same can be said for parts of the world where Muslims gather- a familiar pattern of violence becomes the norm there as well. Point being that it's ultimately more damaging to people in those areas when people sit back and claim that it's somehow bigoted to mention this specific violence, instead of being frank about it.

Quote
Not really possible for either you or I to verify the accounts in the list, but I'll go with my gut on this one.
Your gut is being mislead by people who want to instigate and profit from more war.
I bet the women in Japan who jumped off the cliffs with their babies in their arms after the Japanese news told them if Japan should lose American's would cook their infants and eat them.  Now how did they get this idea.  English literature was taken out of context and sold to them as being part of our cultural norm.    
 “What an excellent cook!”
    ~ Captain Cook on Jonathan Swift

    “I love babies yes I do, will you eat one with me too?”
    ~ Oscar Wilde on Swift's "Down Home Baby Cookbook", 3rd Edition

In the west we recognize it as satire and a criticism of the inhuman treatment of the Irish by the British during the potato famine.  Swift was saying for all the British cared the Irish should eat their babies so that they did not starve.  The majority of the Japanese had no idea that this was intended as a criticism and that no one was really saying people should cannibalize infants.

Some of the accounts, sure they're tweaked to fit a specific agenda. That's not unlike what you are doing in this thread. That's why I mentioned that neither of us can verify anything, and that's why I prefer to view the events as an overall and continuing tragedy.

Quote
Quote
My point is you will find that there are horrible people in every group who do horrible things.  Some even attempt to use their religion or their interpretation of their religion as justification.  But this does not mean the whole group is guilty.

I only call the lady at Waffle House "batter woman". She don't mind.

No one has said that the entire group of people is guilty.

First off you are smart enough to know that was a typo for battered woman.  

This thread was started with the intent of saying all Muslims are evil.  No explanation the incident happened in a war zone or that is was a retaliation for a prior raid in an on going conflict between the two groups in that area.

I know, I was just funnin' ya'.

It seems that wherever militant Muslims exist (or go), the area eventually becomes a "War Zone", so I'm not sure why that matters so much.

Retaliation.. how long is it justifiable as an excuse? Would you like to go back to the 8th century, to a time where Muslim slavers traded Spanish, Portuguese and French? Using "retaliation" as an excuse, should the French be permitted to blow up innocent Middle Easterners?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 05:00:27 PM by hellbilly »
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Riddler

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Israel's First ever Suicide Bomber was a Jewish Young Lady! 

31 October 1946

Before that followers of the Shinto religion justified suicide in-order to kill ones enemy.  You might better know these suicide bombers as kamikazes. 



as usual, your examples are lame & obscure.
btw, the japs enlisted kamikazes , as they were out of planes,  ammo & seasoned flyers (most of the planes used were constructed hastily out of wood w/ cloth covered fuselages)
also, dif. story when they were going after armed soldiers during a conflict, NOT a bunch of unarmed & unaware civillians in a coffee shop.
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Riddler

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The web site you got that list from is obviously a well funded propaganda outlet.

This is why I gave up. Riddler has gone so far down the rabbit hole we should just call him Alice. He mistakenly assumed he "won". I do not consider those that are played so well as being winners.

rabbit hole?
i've sited factual events & happenings and i get the two of you doing a bad ''tit-for-tat'' show, siting obscure references (the best one was the mafia kingpin killing some guy over an  insult, as justification for tens-of-thousands of muslims rioting & killing over a mohammed cartoon)
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davann

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The web site you got that list from is obviously a well funded propaganda outlet.

This is why I gave up. Riddler has gone so far down the rabbit hole we should just call him Alice. He mistakenly assumed he "won". I do not consider those that are played so well as being winners.

rabbit hole?


Yes when you cite a well known propaganda web site as truth you are in the rabbit hole.
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hellbilly

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The web site you got that list from is obviously a well funded propaganda outlet.

This is why I gave up. Riddler has gone so far down the rabbit hole we should just call him Alice. He mistakenly assumed he "won". I do not consider those that are played so well as being winners.

rabbit hole?


Yes when you cite a well known propaganda web site as truth you are in the rabbit hole.

Are you guys really thinking this through?

Which parts of the site are propaganda?

This is the same sort of situation you find with stormfront. Because it is socially taboo to be outspoken against an issue relating to "tolerance" or "diversity", the only place you're likely to find lots of this naughty info on these subjects is at some marginalized website. Because there's a running list of accounts of violence (and commentary, and photographs of the violent happenings), because the focus of the entire site is singular.. that somehow makes it "propaganda"?

Sites which narrow in one one topic outside the taboo are usually referred to as "resource sites", storehouses of information and all that. But even though the accounts on that site are probably as accurate as possible. Read about the list the compile here. The claim that these incidents all occur in WAR ZONES seems to be inaccurate.

Unlike this guy.. who was buried up to his head in the sand and then stoned to death.. it seems you guys are pleased enough to bury your heads in the sand and consider the issue done.

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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

Riddler

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Yes when you cite a well known propaganda web site as truth you are in the rabbit hole.

i had you both backed into a corner long before i brought that site to the table.
and, i don't need that site to bolster my arguments.
there are so many sources, it's overwhelming.
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libertylover

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The web site you got that list from is obviously a well funded propaganda outlet.

This is why I gave up. Riddler has gone so far down the rabbit hole we should just call him Alice. He mistakenly assumed he "won". I do not consider those that are played so well as being winners.

rabbit hole?


Yes when you cite a well known propaganda web site as truth you are in the rabbit hole.
Sad to say you are right.  Propaganda has worked its magic on those who want to hate.  Doubt Riddler has any ability to comprehend the book, "Blow Back."  Or understand about the collateral damage perpetrated in war zones.  Or comprehend the history of guerrilla warfare and how civilians often times are killed as acts of terror.  What is worse he is not alone.  This sort of propaganda is exactly how the Germany lost it's way.  The people allowed their own lack of knowledge and desire to hate to be manipulated.  Most wars are like that.  Many people become the puppets of those who want to profit from instigating wars.

And Hellbilly who knows the details of the event.  You are saying the guy is an adulterer just based on what the site is saying.  However, it is possible the guy is a rapist or a rapist infected with aids.  Because usually it is the woman who is punished in cases of adultery very unusual for a man to be punished unless there are other circumstances.  And yes even if he was a rapist with aids the punishment as viewed through western eyes is barbaric.  But you are placing our social norms on another culture. 

Curious do you know how they handled rebel's or political prisoners in Zimbabwe and yes some criminals?  A country lead by Catholic dictator.  They tie the rebel's hands behind their back and fill a rubber tire with kerosene and place it over the victims head then set the tire on fire.  The practice is called necklacing.  It is a horrible painful death but hey it is Christians doing the killing so I suppose that is ok. 

I think both practices are barbaric definitely, would I want to live there hell no.  I also would not want to fund sending in our troops to force this country to live by our social norms.  I prefer to protect our borders and work to fight against anything like either of these examples becoming our social norms ever.

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hotforwords

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The web site you got that list from is obviously a well funded propaganda outlet.

This is why I gave up. Riddler has gone so far down the rabbit hole we should just call him Alice. He mistakenly assumed he "won". I do not consider those that are played so well as being winners.

rabbit hole?


Yes when you cite a well known propaganda web site as truth you are in the rabbit hole.
Sad to say you are right.  Propaganda has worked its magic on those who want to hate.  Doubt Riddler has any ability to comprehend the book, "Blow Back."  Or understand about the collateral damage perpetrated in war zones.  Or comprehend the history of guerrilla warfare and how civilians often times are killed as acts of terror.  What is worse he is not alone.  This sort of propaganda is exactly how the Germany lost it's way.  The people allowed their own lack of knowledge and desire to hate to be manipulated.  Most wars are like that.  Many people become the puppets of those who want to profit from instigating wars.

And Hellbilly who knows the details of the event.  You are saying the guy is an adulterer just based on what the site is saying.  However, it is possible the guy is a rapist or a rapist infected with aids.  Because usually it is the woman who is punished in cases of adultery very unusual for a man to be punished unless there are other circumstances.  And yes even if he was a rapist with aids the punishment as viewed through western eyes is barbaric.  But you are placing our social norms on another culture. 

Curious do you know how they handled rebel's or political prisoners in Zimbabwe and yes some criminals?  A country lead by Catholic dictator.  They tie the rebel's hands behind their back and fill a rubber tire with kerosene and place it over the victims head then set the tire on fire.  The practice is called necklacing.  It is a horrible painful death but hey it is Christians doing the killing so I suppose that is ok. 

I think both practices are barbaric definitely, would I want to live there hell no.  I also would not want to fund sending in our troops to force this country to live by our social norms.  I prefer to protect our borders and work to fight against anything like either of these examples becoming our social norms ever.



Hot for words must investigate.
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hellbilly

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And Hellbilly who knows the details of the event.  You are saying the guy is an adulterer just based on what the site is saying.  However, it is possible the guy is a rapist or a rapist infected with aids.  Because usually it is the woman who is punished in cases of adultery very unusual for a man to be punished unless there are other circumstances.  And yes even if he was a rapist with aids the punishment as viewed through western eyes is barbaric.  But you are placing our social norms on another culture.

No- I read the caption, but have no idea how accurate it is. Given the frequency of shit like that within Islamic cultures it doesn't surprise me. I only used that image to illustrate the "head in the sand" phrase.. but it kinda got lost in that bad post of mine. Posted that while having a low blood sugar event!

Quote
Curious do you know how they handled rebel's or political prisoners in Zimbabwe and yes some criminals?  A country lead by Catholic dictator.  They tie the rebel's hands behind their back and fill a rubber tire with kerosene and place it over the victims head then set the tire on fire.  The practice is called necklacing.  It is a horrible painful death but hey it is Christians doing the killing so I suppose that is ok. 

I think both practices are barbaric definitely, would I want to live there hell no.  I also would not want to fund sending in our troops to force this country to live by our social norms.  I prefer to protect our borders and work to fight against anything like either of these examples becoming our social norms ever.

Mexican drug gangs do the tire burning thing too. Might be Catholics.

Not sure where you're getting the notion that either I or Dragline think it's swell when Christians go on the offensive. I don't hold that notion and haven't read any accounts of anyone here saying that actually.

What I was trying to say in that previous post of mine is that when topics like this go "off-limits", unreported, not discussed in a frank manner, then it becomes taboo. Once taboo, the info appears as "extremist", or "propaganda" since the only outlets of the info are deemed "taboo" by default.

stormfront has tons of cases of black-on-white violence.. taboo! Propaganda! religionofpeace has tons of cases of Muslim-on-Anything-That-Moves violence.. taboo! Propaganda! So where is an open and frank discussion of these taboo topics permissible? Apparently nowhere... that's why these details get shoved to the fringe area, where the loonies are free to present the info alongside any agenda they might have an interest in sneaking in there.

And.. you're dodging the questions I've asked.
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