Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown  (Read 21013 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BonerJoe

  • Guest
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2010, 06:10:02 PM »

Someone's drinking, and it's not Brock for a change.
Logged

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2010, 06:54:09 PM »

Spreading rumors and causing people to prejudge and hurting someones livelyhood goes against the NAP

Though a relatively common belief, this is not true.  

A's concept of B belongs to A, not B and is formed solely by A as a result of sensory perception and reason.  C's false negative statement, transmitted to A could only influence A's formation of the concept B, not actually form (and, thereby, enhance or harm) it.

C's statement, true or false, positive or negative, cannot be said to be aggression against the property of A (namely, the concept of B) any more than B's statements and actions (true or false, positive or negative).

Likewise, if A can choose to not patronize B's business, the possible transaction is not some property owned by B.  So, even if C's false negative statement influenced A's concept of B to the extent that A chooses to forgo trading with B, it is again A who could only possibly be harmed (maybe A missed out on a good deal).  But, while you're dealing in maybes, you also have to consider possible positive effects (maybe A found a better deal with someone other than B).




In a free society with a freely thinking and voluntaryist /merit based educated people, you would be right. We don't. We have to work with what we got. Bullshit and the truth have about the same value as things are. C's opinion has more value then it should, and A is very unlikely to make a opinion of his own if he hears a statement against B enough times.  

anarchir

  • Extraordinaire
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5103
  • No victim, no crime.
    • View Profile
    • Prepared Security
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2011, 12:46:19 AM »

The Baklava guy, freedomcam.net, everyone at agorist alley during porcfest
... all got started before the current drama.


Those things may have started before the "current drama" but surely not before The Last Biscuit. George hasnt been selling his baklava more than a year, freedomcam.net has hardly been around a few months or so, and I believe the agorist alley has been done twice so far.
Logged
Good people disobey bad laws.
PreparedSecurity.com - Modern security and preparedness for the 21st century.
 [img width= height= alt=Prepared Security]http://www.prepareddesign.com/uploads/4/4/3/6/4436847/1636340_orig.png[/img]

dalebert

  • Blasphemor
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6622
    • View Profile
    • Flaming Freedom
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2011, 01:03:27 PM »

Were you spelling Nazi -ing me BJ? And Denis chiming in? ooh that's rich. lol.
Jeg snakker to språk, og kjønner fire.

He didn't change the spelling.  My interpretation was that he was pointing out that what are rumors to one person is the truth to another; hence putting it in quotes.  The point is people are exercising speech and most of the time people repeat things because they believe it.  Either it's their experience or they heard it from someone whom they trust.  It's quite a stretch to call that a violation of the NAP.  Knowingly lying to hurt someone or defraud them, perhaps, but I think generally people are expressing their real beliefs.

dalebert

  • Blasphemor
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6622
    • View Profile
    • Flaming Freedom
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2011, 01:04:18 PM »

...and I believe the agorist alley has been done twice so far.

Pretty sure it's just once, unless it was REALLY subtle the year before and I missed it.

BonerJoe

  • Guest
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2011, 01:11:54 PM »

...and I believe the agorist alley has been done twice so far.

Pretty sure it's just once, unless it was REALLY subtle the year before and I missed it.


It was just a few (less than 5?) people selling stuff out of their campsites. Nothing at all like 2010's. 2010 was a business venture, for sure.
Logged

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2011, 03:52:15 PM »

Were you spelling Nazi -ing me BJ? And Denis chiming in? ooh that's rich. lol.
Jeg snakker to språk, og kjønner fire.

He didn't change the spelling.  My interpretation was that he was pointing out that what are rumors to one person is the truth to another; hence putting it in quotes.  The point is people are exercising speech and most of the time people repeat things because they believe it.  Either it's their experience or they heard it from someone whom they trust.  It's quite a stretch to call that a violation of the NAP.  Knowingly lying to hurt someone or defraud them, perhaps, but I think generally people are expressing their real beliefs.


You can't honestly believe rumors never cause harm. Someone accuses someone of being a pedophile for example and they are scarred for life, evedense or no, even negative evidence won't completely erase the stigma. In the liberty movement racism is another effective way to cause someone to be ostracised.
Personally I dislike people who spread rumors more then a closeted racist. I talk about someone behind their back with same discretion I use to call the police- only in a life or death need to know situation.

dalebert

  • Blasphemor
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6622
    • View Profile
    • Flaming Freedom
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2011, 09:42:38 AM »

You can't honestly believe rumors never cause harm.

I never said that.  I said it's a stretch to call it a violation of the NAP.  It's a stretch to call speech, "aggression" and would set a very bad precedent.  If you want to place blame, talk about the people who act with little to no evidence, e.g. rumors.

It's even a stretch to call the Momma Ally incident "rumors".  It was just people expressing their opinions about statements she made publicly and which were recorded.  The evidence was there for anyone who cared enough to look at it.  Then they could express their opinion of it or come to her defense, which many did.

That said, ostracism is not aggression, whatever a person's motives for it.

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2011, 12:04:47 PM »

You are probably right. I have learned over the years to use weapons sparingly, I thought ostracism was a voluntaryist deterrent. Fine I'll try it your way.
The people in the NH liberty movement set Mama Ally up for a fall, she showed more faith and loyalty to the movement then it deserved, she thought they were more than talk, and when she counted on people they fell short.
When you have been fucked over as bad as she has you don't always talk or communicate "correctly" because your own defense mechanisms and friend testing radar is running at 200%, in other words you make controversial statements to figure out who you can trust when things get real. I have learned this from experience. I don't respect player haters. I hate self- righteous and judgemental people.  And I won't ostracise or even openly dislike a person for anything short of a actual crime with a actual victim.
You catch more bees with honey then vinegar anyway. So why not just politely tell people you disagree with why they are mistaken? I had a beef with Ian's disrespect for fetuses and his attitude about it but I am not going to ostracise him about it. I called in and politely brought it up. I kind of sucked, but I think Mark (and M7 a couple days later) brought my point across quite well. I think Ian might be more careful next time, we will see.

One two three

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3650
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2011, 12:23:28 PM »

The people in the NH liberty movement set Mama Ally up for a fall, she showed more faith and loyalty to the movement then it deserved, she thought they were more than talk, and when she counted on people they fell short.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the people in NH helped her greatly but she messed up so badly that there is nothing that we could do to help her help herself.

Logged
Why New Hampshire?  Learn why 1000s of liberty activists are planning to move to NH.  See the debate in page after page of forum messages, http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?124976-101-Reasons-to-move-to-New-Hampshire

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2011, 01:54:13 PM »

She was just doing just fine before she met the liberty movement. What did the liberty movement do for her?

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2011, 02:13:23 PM »

You are probably right. I have learned over the years to use weapons sparingly, I thought ostracism was a voluntaryist deterrent. Fine I'll try it your way.
The people in the NH liberty movement set Mama Ally up for a fall, she showed more faith and loyalty to the movement then it deserved, she thought they were more than talk, and when she counted on people they fell short.
When you have been fucked over as bad as she has you don't always talk or communicate "correctly" because your own defense mechanisms and friend testing radar is running at 200%, in other words you make controversial statements to figure out who you can trust when things get real. I have learned this from experience. I don't respect player haters. I hate self- righteous and judgemental people.  And I won't ostracise or even openly dislike a person for anything short of a actual crime with a actual victim.
You catch more bees with honey then vinegar anyway. So why not just politely tell people you disagree with why they are mistaken? I had a beef with Ian's disrespect for fetuses and his attitude about it but I am not going to ostracise him about it. I called in and politely brought it up. I kind of sucked, but I think Mark (and M7 a couple days later) brought my point across quite well. I think Ian might be more careful next time, we will see.
Well said Al.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Cognitive Dissident

  • Amateur Agorist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2011, 06:39:53 PM »

She was just doing just fine before she met the liberty movement. What did the liberty movement do for her?

Running out on bail didn't help.
Logged

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2011, 12:30:32 AM »

She probably felt she had a safe place to run, and tried to hide among friends in what she perceived as a safe place when the world had gone mad. She was trying to rebel against the state by not obeying it.
I wonder where she picked up that idea.

voodoo

  • FTL AMPlifier Platinum
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3748
    • View Profile
Re: Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2011, 01:21:32 AM »

She probably felt she had a safe place to run, and tried to hide among friends in what she perceived as a safe place when the world had gone mad. She was trying to rebel against the state by not obeying it.
I wonder where she picked up that idea.

Running to NH from financial obligations?

Logged
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."  ~ Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVII, 1782. ME 2:222
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Momma Ally is the new Ed Brown

// ]]>

Page created in 0.022 seconds with 31 queries.