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Author Topic: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...  (Read 10482 times)

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BenTucker

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modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« on: February 18, 2006, 11:27:01 PM »

as a mutualist or individualist anarchist who is a free market, anti-capitalist the difference between the value of labor-power as a commodity and the value of labor's product is a an unnatural outcome caused by state-enforced monopoly returns to land and capital and state-enforced unequal exchange in the labor market whereas for Marx once wage-labor had been instituted it is the natural outcome of the market and the source of the capitalists' exploitation and appropriation.

therefore mutualist believe for labor to receive its full product it did not require a utopian labor-note currency like the collectivist social anarchists called for it or for the collective ownership of the means of production like Marx called for but rather only required that the banking industry be opened up to the laws of market competition via mutualist banks by ending state granted privileges.
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MobileDigit

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2006, 11:48:53 PM »

Quote
The problem with all Cost-of-Production theories of value is that they do not ask why man acts to create capital.

Man acts to create capital in order to increase his supply of consumer's goods. Man has no need for capital if it cannot be used to create consumer goods. So, originally the consumer good is valued by supply and demand, and then the factors of production which create that consumer good tend toward equilibrium.

Imagine a book printer (capital) and a book (consumer good). According to Cost-of-Production theories, first the book printer is priced, and then the book's price comes from the cost of the book printer. Clearly this is mistaken: the book is valued originally, and then the price of the book printer is determined by the price of the book.

In other words, the Labor Theory of Value is completely and totally erroneous.

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vanguardist

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2006, 11:50:27 PM »

Hard to believe people still spew this crap out. Value depends on marginal utility.
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rabidfurby

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2006, 11:58:01 PM »

Do mutualists also believe in not infringing on others' individual common equal access collectivist opportunity rights to the Shift key?
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Laetitia

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2006, 12:10:28 AM »

Do mutualists also believe in not infringing on others' individual common equal access collectivist opportunity rights to the Shift key?

No, the Shift key is common opportunity access. The CAPS LOCK key is the one for which you will be charged economic rent - provided that mutually anarchist individuals see a value in your labors using said key.
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Proletarian

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2006, 03:11:01 AM »

Does this theory explain what happenes when nobody wants to buy what you're selling?
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charlieo

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2006, 02:15:01 PM »

There's the problem. Value of a product is only what someone else is willing to pay. If the printer's book is so good that someone will pay $100 for it, then it's value is $100. If it sucks, then it has little or no value.
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Evil Muppet

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2006, 08:01:58 PM »

I thought Labour Theory of Value was dead about a hundred years ago.   

Value is based on utility.  I don't care how much effort someone put into making an object.  If it has no use to me or anyone else, what value does it have? 

Although I think labour theory of value underlies a lot of the Union and governmetn Make Work program doctrines. 
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vanguardist

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2006, 08:18:07 PM »

I thought Labour Theory of Value was dead about a hundred years ago.   

Value is based on utility.  I don't care how much effort someone put into making an object.  If it has no use to me or anyone else, what value does it have? 

Although I think labour theory of value underlies a lot of the Union and governmetn Make Work program doctrines. 

Right. Menger and von Bohn-Bawerk killed it.
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BenTucker

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2006, 09:15:20 PM »

I thought Labour Theory of Value was dead about a hundred years ago.   

Value is based on utility.  I don't care how much effort someone put into making an object.  If it has no use to me or anyone else, what value does it have? 

Although I think labour theory of value underlies a lot of the Union and governmetn Make Work program doctrines. 

with perfect competition without state privilege there would be no profits and thus wages would dictate product costs...
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BenTucker

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2006, 09:23:20 PM »

Quote
According to Cost-of-Production theories, first the book printer is priced, and then the book's price comes from the cost of the book printer. Clearly this is mistaken: the book is valued originally, and then the price of the book printer is determined by the price of the book.

In other words, the Labor Theory of Value is completely and totally erroneous.

hence the title of the thread is modified...

removing all state privileges means competition via market forces will drive the price down to the labor required to create it
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Proletarian

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2006, 10:14:50 PM »

Quote
According to Cost-of-Production theories, first the book printer is priced, and then the book's price comes from the cost of the book printer. Clearly this is mistaken: the book is valued originally, and then the price of the book printer is determined by the price of the book.

In other words, the Labor Theory of Value is completely and totally erroneous.

hence the title of the thread is modified...

removing all state privileges means competition via market forces will drive the price down to the labor required to create it

What about the profit motive to motivate people to produce and compete?
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BenTucker

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2006, 10:31:04 PM »

Quote
According to Cost-of-Production theories, first the book printer is priced, and then the book's price comes from the cost of the book printer. Clearly this is mistaken: the book is valued originally, and then the price of the book printer is determined by the price of the book.

In other words, the Labor Theory of Value is completely and totally erroneous.

hence the title of the thread is modified...

removing all state privileges means competition via market forces will drive the price down to the labor required to create it

What about the profit motive to motivate people to produce and compete?

what about it?

wishing for it won't make it happen...the higglin' of the market will squeeze out profits and force people to cooperative for mutual benefit (reciprocity).

people will still have to produce to sustain themselves...
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Proletarian

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2006, 10:36:07 PM »

And slaves still produce for the master out of fear of the whip.
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"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

"If there is hope, it lies in the proles."

BenTucker

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Re: modified version of Labor Theory of Value...
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2006, 10:44:58 PM »

And slaves still produce for the master out of fear of the whip.

the master is the market the whip is competition...

the slaves will be liberated!
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