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Author Topic: Moderator Changes  (Read 56284 times)

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ox

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #195 on: November 03, 2011, 09:26:19 PM »

The Libman is not the issue here, dude.  

No, but he's a good example of you picking a shitty example of acceptability.  


It's also hilarious that he carefully chose not to respond to my post.

Every time he calls me a dirty fucking statist and speaks about me as if I'm not in the room he'll get a link to it.

Shaw, what do you want me to say to you?  Thank you?  Thank you for agreeing that you won't modify user posts other than by deletion of what you consider to be inappropriate content.  Thank you for not sending user info to the cops.  My impression was that this was how mods here were supposed to behave in the first place.  You cussed me out when it was completely unnecessary.  Why should I respond to you after that outburst?  I don't speak to you that way and I don't expect you to speak to me that way.  I'm not sure what your problem is, but my problem with you is that you "appear" to endorse Brasky's bad behavior.  Even though you stated that you wouldn't do what he said he would do, you still act like what he did is OK and then you blew up at me.  Also, I didn't call you a statist, although you did have me wondering...

As for Brasky - you're probably a lot of fun to hang out with and you're definitely a gifted writer and all that, but this shit about threatening to alter user posts so that they are "most damaging" is totally wrong.  The fact that you stand by your threat as if it is acceptable behavior is just unbelievable.  I hope you don't think that what you did is OK. 
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #196 on: November 03, 2011, 09:35:10 PM »

The Libman is not the issue here, dude.  

No, but he's a good example of you picking a shitty example of acceptability.  


It's also hilarious that he carefully chose not to respond to my post.

Every time he calls me a dirty fucking statist and speaks about me as if I'm not in the room he'll get a link to it.

I think I'll bump it. 

You're not a dirty fucking statist, John. 



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Bill Brasky

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #197 on: November 03, 2011, 09:35:54 PM »


As for Brasky - you're probably a lot of fun to hang out with and you're definitely a gifted writer and all that, but this shit about threatening to alter user posts so that they are "most damaging" is totally wrong.  The fact that you stand by your threat as if it is acceptable behavior is just unbelievable.  I hope you don't think that what you did is OK.  

You're a lawyer.  Necessitas non habet legem.  I never got paid to destroy anyone's life.
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John Shaw

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #198 on: November 03, 2011, 09:38:29 PM »

Shaw, what do you want me to say to you?  Thank you?  Thank you for agreeing that you won't modify user posts other than by deletion of what you consider to be inappropriate content.  Thank you for not sending user info to the cops.  My impression was that this was how mods here were supposed to behave in the first place.  You cussed me out when it was completely unnecessary.  Why should I respond to you after that outburst?  I don't speak to you that way and I don't expect you to speak to me that way.  I'm not sure what your problem is, but my problem with you is that you "appear" to endorse Brasky's bad behavior.  Even though you stated that you wouldn't do what he said he would do, you still act like what he did is OK and then you blew up at me.  Also, I didn't call you a statist, although you did have me wondering...

Dude, you said that I approve of calling in the government against people. That's calling me a statist and it's fucking fighting words. I made an assessment of Brasky's motivations, which are different than your assessment. You called me a statist for it. So yes, I took goddamned insult from you dragging me through the mud.

And I don't owe you a goddamned testimony to my innocence. But you felt the need to sling mud.

Now you're bummed that you picked a fight. Tough shit man.

So what's your deal? Trying to sow discord between mods by getting them fighting each other?

Now I'm gonna sit back and wait for you to try defending mods allowing kiddie porn and violent threats on the board as "Free Speech"

See the new terms of service please.

Also -  Say you're sorry for calling me a statist and we're square and I'll apologize for using potty mouth at you.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:40:23 PM by John Shaw »
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John Shaw

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #199 on: November 03, 2011, 09:41:40 PM »

You're not a dirty fucking statist, John. 

I know, right?
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ox

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #200 on: November 03, 2011, 10:12:17 PM »

Shaw, what do you want me to say to you?  Thank you?  Thank you for agreeing that you won't modify user posts other than by deletion of what you consider to be inappropriate content.  Thank you for not sending user info to the cops.  My impression was that this was how mods here were supposed to behave in the first place.  You cussed me out when it was completely unnecessary.  Why should I respond to you after that outburst?  I don't speak to you that way and I don't expect you to speak to me that way.  I'm not sure what your problem is, but my problem with you is that you "appear" to endorse Brasky's bad behavior.  Even though you stated that you wouldn't do what he said he would do, you still act like what he did is OK and then you blew up at me.  Also, I didn't call you a statist, although you did have me wondering...

Dude, you said that I approve of calling in the government against people. That's calling me a statist and it's fucking fighting words. I made an assessment of Brasky's motivations, which are different than your assessment. You called me a statist for it. So yes, I took goddamned insult from you dragging me through the mud.

And I don't owe you a goddamned testimony to my innocence. But you felt the need to sling mud.

Now you're bummed that you picked a fight. Tough shit man.

So what's your deal? Trying to sow discord between mods by getting them fighting each other?

Now I'm gonna sit back and wait for you to try defending mods allowing kiddie porn and violent threats on the board as "Free Speech"

See the new terms of service please.

Also -  Say you're sorry for calling me a statist and we're square and I'll apologize for using potty mouth at you.

Well, your response to my query was not exactly the model of clarity.  Here is the post:

1) A moderator has threatened to arbitrarily falsify the posts of bbs members so that it would appear that they had written incriminating or otherwise damaging things when in fact they had not done so; and,

Incriminating? I don't think he said that at all. I think he said he'd fuck with people's posts if they acted like assholes.

2) A moderator has openly announced that he would send information from here directly to the cops in order to facilitate the initiation of force against bbs members.

If they posted something that could effect the site owner (Ian) legally. I believe that that is what he said. I also believe he specifically mentioned information that could draw attacks by letter agencies (Explosive devices and means of altering firearms that would draw the ire of the ATF, an agency known to persecute and harass people.) and child pornography, which will have the FBI up people's asses in a split second.

Not even touching the high probability that a good half of that post was with an angry tongue in cheek at a situation that was getting progressively stupider by the minute. 

EDIT - Besides, all of this is moot now, as the TOS has changed and mods can just ban abusive people.

I think you can see how that might lead one to be less than clear about your position.  Your comments on the second issue are equivocal about whether it is OK for mods to call the cops over what people post and you didn't flatly reject it as you did in subsequent posts.
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John Shaw

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #201 on: November 03, 2011, 10:24:17 PM »

I think you can see how that might lead one to be less than clear about your position.  Your comments on the second issue are equivocal about whether it is OK for mods to call the cops over what people post and you didn't flatly reject it as you did in subsequent posts.

I think I was pretty damned clear.

I said what I would do.

I do not think that it is morally wrong for a person to contact gooberment in response to murder, child abuse, and threats of violence. There is no other recourse in the world for dealing with that sort of shit. You open up a private agency that offers those services and I'm fucking all over it.

This whole piece of debate is about how Brasky was willing to treat people who put the owner of this site into danger.

No, I PERSONALLY would not contact gooberment.

I can be not willing to take the same actions as another person and still not condemn them.

You tell me what should be done when someone comes onto the BBS and starts posting death threats?

What I do - Ban the shit out of them and let their posts gather dust until some gooberment asshole looking for a patsy shows up. Shame on the user for saying stupid shit that draws the attention of bad people.

What other mods may do - More.

But again, I don't think you understood what Brasky was saying at all, and I don't think you are totally aware of the circumstances or context of the conversation. Have you read the racism thread? Have you read the stuff leading up to all the changes on the BBS, apart from this thread?

People were making huge stinks about how no one was being clear enough about what constituted "Racism". It went on for fucking ever. Brasky came in and said that he was GONNA GETCHA AND YOU'LL NEVER KNOW WHEN OR WHERE.

It was a fucking shine on. S'why I posted a song that represents the theme of his post. There ain't no Santa Claus and there is no Tyrant Brasky.

Sheesh.

But I get that you don't get that. Fine. Just stop calling me a fucking statist please.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 10:30:38 PM by John Shaw »
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #202 on: November 04, 2011, 12:21:17 AM »

Reality's a complicated thing. 

I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to this horseshit.  But I will anyways.

First point -


Brasky came in and said that he was GONNA GETCHA AND YOU'LL NEVER KNOW WHEN OR WHERE.

It was a fucking shine on. S'why I posted a song that represents the theme of his post. There ain't no Santa Claus and there is no Tyrant Brasky.

Sheesh.

But I get that you don't get that. Fine. Just stop calling me a fucking statist please.

This is about as concise as anyone's ever gotten what I really did.  I couldn't put it better myself.


Now - lets talk about something..  Personal conduct.

I've really not fucked with anyone.  I said a couple things.  I like to think of it as my re-creation of HG Welles War of the Worlds radio broadcast. 

Out of the thousands and thousands of posts that reside here, there are NONE that I've ever acted upon.  NONE.

And there is some pretty bad shit here.

As I said, I did play with Hellbilly's one post, to show it could be done.  As an example.

But it really wasn't the content of the post.  And I think even HE understood that.  Its not like there was anything bad in it.  It could have even been about oranges for all I fuckin' cared. 

What I was driving at was, I have the nuclear option

People were debating and debating and debating, like an endless Rubik's Cube puzzle.  What if I do this, and what if I do that?

I don't really dig all that scenario bullshit.  I didn't play D+D as a kid, either.

There is a line.  Even I don't exactly know where it is, because the "law" here is arbitrary.

99.99999% of the content or people here, it probably doesn't matter. 

But that little tiny .00001% is what everybody's arguing over.

Does it impact you, personally, if you can't dabble in that little, hideous dark corner of the .00001%, and post pictures of you face-fucking your daughter?  Or sell a bomb to another forum member?

It shouldn't. 

And I just keep tellin' people, "Y'know what?  Just don't go there.  Don't push the envelope."  And most reasonable people should just go "Y'know what?  You're right man.  I like coming here, and this guy's just trying to keep the place somewhat clean, because it's associated with an internationally recognized radio show, and there are laws to consider.  And the guy who owns the website is in trouble with the law...  so maybe I won't perpetuate this nonsense, and cut the Janitor some slack."

Instead, people want to fight about it. 

And HOW people fight on the internet is the key point of contention here.  They post the most salacious and dirty, rotten fucking shit they can muster.  And some of it - heres the rub - some of it could be REALLY fucking illegal. 

Now -- prior to all this (if you're not asleep yet)  people were telling me - hilarious - I shouldn't ban anybody. 

So I ruminated.  People shouldn't make me do that.  Seriously.  Because I will figure out an alternative.  And apparently, it freaked the shit out of everyone.

Now they wish they'd just never would've pushed the whole "don't ban people" agenda.  Now, they WISH  for fucking banning.

Get it?

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ox

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #203 on: November 04, 2011, 01:14:55 AM »

Shaw, I can appreciate that I do not know all of the context.  I haven't read the racism thread.  The search feature sucks, can you post a link?  Take the CP, ATF issues & Libman off the table and what is left? Hellbilly & Dragline? Why didn't April get banned? She frequently uses offensive racist epithets.

When is Dragline gonna get unbanned?
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ox

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #204 on: November 04, 2011, 01:16:30 AM »

Get it?

No, I'm not quite with you there.
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John Shaw

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #205 on: November 04, 2011, 01:42:05 AM »

Shaw, I can appreciate that I do not know all of the context.
Good on ya. And I'm sorry I potty mouthed at ya. Just tired of this controversy and people only knowing part of the story and chiming in with analysis. The whole thing with Ecolitan was a major example of a dude who rarely shows up on the BBS and thinks he knows the whole score in a situation after reading a couple threads. Ecolitan and I had never had an issue before this. Dragline dropped N-bombs for two years at least before anyone did shit.

I haven't read the racism thread.  The search feature sucks, can you post a link?  Take the CP, ATF issues & Libman off the table and what is left? Hellbilly & Dragline? Why didn't April get banned? She frequently uses offensive racist epithets.

When is Dragline gonna get unbanned?

These are some of the threads. I may have missed a bunch. It was a tangled fucking mess. There's a lot of crap. I don't blame you if you get tired of reading it.

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/racism/135/

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/bbs-fail/

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/john-shaw-ban-criteria/

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/what-shouldn%27t-need-to-be-said/

April never came close to a ban.

Dragline/Riddler had been dropping racial epithets for a couple fucking years and was basically ignored. He had long since earned a ban but was being tolerated because he wasn't generally using racist terms directed at a specific person.

I decided to poke fun at the thread on racism with this post - http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/racism/msg640339/#msg640339  I made several more obviously silly comments about Saxons.

It was obviously a joke. It set off a chain of events leading to Dragline's ban. He basically had been living on borrowed time on the BBS and then decided to have a hissy fit all over one of the people who'd been overlooking his bad behavior. Namely me. He's gone.

Then Ecolitan took it upon himself to grab his white knight armor and shield and start ripping into me on the grounds that "Shaw just got mad and took vengeance because his feelings were hurt." and proceeded to say shit to me that was far worse than what Dragline/Riddler said. He wasn't banned for it because it wasn't about me. It was about "The last straw" and when one gets broken.

During this time Brasky made his posts.

Cue shitstorm when Ian gets back and everything you see in this thread. Ian dissed Brasky and I and put other people in charge. Many people had a giant fucking problem with this. I had to have a phone call with Mark Edgington and shoot the shit about it. People went out of their way to go to bat for Brasky and myself behind the scenes. Ian realized he had made a mistake and put things right.

I wrote up a new TOS and the board has restarted as a moderated board.

Which is where we are now.

Everything else is just chuffa leftovers and sour grapes as far as I know.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 01:47:48 AM by John Shaw »
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blackie

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #206 on: November 04, 2011, 02:59:19 AM »

  I said a couple things.  I like to think of it as my re-creation of HG Welles War of the Worlds radio broadcast. 

I though you said you wouldn't be posting here much any more.

Did you change your mind about that, or was that all a part of your "story"?

And if you really think about it, aside from this thread, you'll never know I'm here once I'm done answering your stupid rebuttals, and a few people will use the filter'd words, and they'll look ridiculous.  I may not have to write a single word to anyone for a whole year at a time. 
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #207 on: November 04, 2011, 05:07:32 AM »

  I said a couple things.  I like to think of it as my re-creation of HG Welles War of the Worlds radio broadcast. 

I though you said you wouldn't be posting here much any more.

Did you change your mind about that, or was that all a part of your "story"?

And if you really think about it, aside from this thread, you'll never know I'm here once I'm done answering your stupid rebuttals, and a few people will use the filter'd words, and they'll look ridiculous.  I may not have to write a single word to anyone for a whole year at a time. 


Someone said something to me. 




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BonerJoe

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #208 on: November 04, 2011, 09:02:10 AM »

Lance be trollin'.
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The Libmanator

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Re: Moderator Changes
« Reply #209 on: November 09, 2011, 02:11:05 AM »

Was I unbanned intentionally or what?
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