Moderator Changes

[John Shaw]

Bill Brasky is making it easier for me to think that he's difficult to deal with and what people have said about him in this thread have more credibility.

Your interactions with him must have been limited so far. This stuff is a culmination of a couple years of back and forth between quite a few users.

Brasky is one of the mellower people around here and an all around good guy.

People aren't allowed to post racist crap on the BBS.

Hellbilly/Aunt Bee has, in the past, taken, shall we say, ambiguous stances on the issue of race, and definitely has a... significant interest in the subject and pushing the boundaries, if not relentlessly and offensively then at least consistently.

Consistently to the point where I and other people on the BBS, mods or not, have called him a racist. He chooses to deny this by saying that he is ""Not a bigot."

Fine.

But at the center of every single topic about race and racism and ethnicity and all of that wrapped up with genetics you will find no one on the BBS more active than "Aunt Bee"

I've had angry and annoyed outbursts about it, other people have as well. Brasky deserves a turn.

The fact that Aunt Bee/Hellbilly continues to be tolerated in regards to this subject is that he never pokes more than a couple toes over the line, and we are, in fact tolerant, contrary to what some people may tell you.

But lemme tell you this - There's a threshold for dancing on the line. Toes in, wiggling fingers over it, pissing over it, that sort of thing has eventual limits.

Brasky is a mod. He hasn't banned Aunt Bee. He has told him to knock it off, and now to fuck off.

Aunt Bee will probably gladly admit that he's trying to push buttons. Well he pushed 'em and now he got yelled at. Aw shucks.

[BonerJoe]

Every other mod at least gives people way too many chances.

I'm not that nice.

[hellbilly]

For fuck's sakes. More than a year ago you, Shaw, reminded me that we had "buried the hatchet" on this shit. Why are you singling me out again? Especially considering this nonsense is between Brasky and myself and has nothing to do with you.

My stances on race are ambiguous? Ask me what you're unsure of about my point of view. I've been nothing but clear.

"Fine." ? If you think I'm a bigot, once again, you're invited to back the claim up.

And if you can't, doesn't this fall under the BBS rule of flamebait? Years of it now.

I'm also consistent in being critical of mindless consumerism, pop culture, and stupid people of all colors, not just blacks.

As for "the line" - it's the ambiguity of the line that's central to this shit. Is the rule "No Bigotry" or is it "No N-Word"? I don't think me pointing out that silly detail has lead to all this drama, so what's the agenda?

More people would speak out, probably, if they didn't want to offend any of the old schoolers here. Or maybe they don't want all their personal information shared by a moderator as a form of punishment for being naughty on the board... like it was in the old days.

Since you're now speaking on Brasky's behalf, this is another example of the mods closing rank and insulating one another from fair criticism from just a casual browser. Kinda reminds me of how Brasky spoke up for you when your feelings got all hurt over some words from Dragline. "Aw shucks." That had nothing to do with Brasky, this had nothing to do with you.

I know you guys spend time twiddling the back end of the BBS but expressing so much emotion over this place is spooky.

I already backed off visting here because of this shit, came back when there was a proposal to reboot and try starting anew. Funny how it's a couple of mods with agendas who are keeping teh same routine going. Great job.

[John Shaw]

A bunch of angry

Dude, you claim you aren't a bigot. I said fine. I didn't say fine.

I am not calling you a racist. Jesus fuck.

I think I was being perfectly diplomatic overall on the subject. The point of my post wasn't to take a shot at you in any way, it was to point out that this has been an ongoing thing and to consider that the issue is more complex than may seem. And it is. This person has been a member for a while but has few posts. It seems like they may not browse to BBS often and I was chucking some background info out there.

Ease up yo.

Are you suggesting that there isn't some dispute between yourself and others on the board about your views in regard to race?

We have had conversations both here and via PM. I don't know if I'd call you a racist or not but you say that "I am not a bigot." Fine. I take you at your word. I have thoughts on the subject either way.

I am not busting on you and I have no current beef with you.

Nevertheless, everything I said about race being sorta of high interest to you stands. The idea that someone else on the board would get wound up by your "thing" with race is no surprise to me, and your demands for a list of every single racial epithet and how and when it is or is not permitted on the BBS is just trying to start bullshit. Bullshit that is obviously pissing Brasky off. In this case yes, I think you are going out of your way to have a fight over a moot subject.  

Quit hitting bears with sticks and bears won't roar at ya already.

Again... Sheesh.

FOR THE RECORD, JUST SO EVERYONE CAN SEE ME SAY IT - I AM NOT CALLING AUNT BEE A RACIST. I AM NOT EVEN IMPLYING IT. I AM SAYING THAT THERE IS A HISTORY OF CONTROVERSY OVER THE ISSUE AND IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE THAT OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT COME TO SIMILAR CONCLUSIONS THAT I HAD IN THE PAST.

P.S. - I don't recall Brasky and I ever talking about you at all. Dragline yes. You I don't think so. You don't do what Dragline did.

P.P.S - Brasky seemingly dropped it a page ago with "Don't fucking talk to me." which may not be friendly but was obviously him walking away, and you came right back swinging anyhow. Take a step back and consider that at least. Dude was walking away. You take a parting shot. Just sayin'.

[hellbilly]

There's a bit of a slant in your previous post up there, John. I think it'd be hard to deny it.

Your words: I "choose to deny being a bigot" ? As opposed to what?

Hey wait! I know... Choosing to admit that I am! That's the implication.

Overall the tone and message come right through... I'm "tolerated" and "Aw shucks" accent the implication quite well.

I'm not gonna explain the name change agenda again. How much more could possible be said? From anyone.

But- as far as the poking of bears goes, sure I know it's metaphorical but it's commonly reserved to describe a peon who fucks with someone of authority. Which kinda fits in this scenario, so I think I need to mention that we aren't talking about dangerous beings in powerful positions - we're talking about two guys sitting behind our fucking computers bitching. One of them, The Bear, has access to a ban button. Wow.

Instead of RAGE all I'm able to muster is a somewhat bizarro-world sense of something being funny.. but irked because I'm the butt of the joke and it's the same joke being told repeatedly and I nod and grin, nod and grin and think to myself.. WTF?

[John Shaw]

There's a bit of a slant in your previous post up there, John. I think it'd be hard to deny it.

Your words: I "choose to deny being a bigot" ? As opposed to what?

Hey wait! I know... Choosing to admit that I am! That's the implication.

Overall the tone and message come right through... I'm "tolerated" and "Aw shucks" accent the implication quite well.

So why don't you tell me exactly how I should have said it so as not to have implied all of those things. Sorta like you expect from the mods.

Please explain in detail.

[BonerJoe]

I can ban him, you know.

[Bill Brasky]

I don't know a lot of the behind the scenes.

So, why are you including yourself in a months-old argument, if you don't know a fucking thing about it?  

To me, this speaks volumes.  

I wouldn't dream or dare to presume my position is valid, if I were you.  Its like watching the last half-hour of a movie, and telling everyone you're an expert on the plot.

[Bill Brasky]

Don't have it in me to continue shitty macho middle school drama.

You mean, the shitty middle-school drama that you've instigated for the last two months? 

ME:  Please refrain  x100

You:  No.


Is that the shitty middle-school drama of which you speak?

[Bill Brasky]

Hey, Hellbilly.  As long as you're running your fucking mouth, why not enlighten the forum on this:

What was the exact name you changed your username to, after all the racial arguments, that provoked me to lock you in the troll thread?

[blackie]

.  

" . " - sounds like you're still on one.

Two things, short as shit:

1. The BBS has a "No Racism & Bigotry" rule. You were enforcing a "No N-Word" rule. Those two are not the same.
2. There are obvious workarounds to most any rule. In the spirit of FTL in general (big fans of pointing out the pointlessness in petty rules - manicure licenses, etc.) my intent was to show you a loophole - the username.

I did nothing to provoke you on a personal level (as in lookin ya right in the eye), you chose to make it personal with lame name-calling. Dunno why, but I'm still surprised at how emotional you seem to be about it. To me it's still just two members of a forum having an exchange, light jabs, etc. and certainly nothing major. Ease up, Dude.

Don't fucking talk to me.  

Bill Brasky, you have an ignore list, it appears you need to use it and/or calm the eff down and discuss things rationally. As someone looking in you're not doing yourself any favors by flying off the handle when someone brings up what appear to be valid and truthful critiques of your moderation.

Mind your own business.

You again make my point for me Bill Brasky.

Not to imply that you've chosen sides or anything - but thanks assawyer for the words.

You're welcome Aunt Bee. I haven't taken sides because I don't know a lot of the behind the scenes. Bill Brasky is making it easier for me to think that he's difficult to deal with and what people have said about him in this thread have more credibility.

I have given up interacting with the guy for the most part.

There are very few people I want to associate with here any more.

----

The few rules I enforce will be as follows...  



#1 - Violence.  Anybody who makes direct violent threats or statements, will just be miserably fucked.. period.  Go ahead and try, it might not happen immediately, but sleep with one eye open..  Probly might wanna flush your dope and save your pennies for a good lawyer.  This includes Tom Alciere.  I will accumulate so much data on a clown, the prosecutor will just tell the judge to read my shit right on the bench.  

#2 - CP.  Same.

#3 - Racism, bigotry.  Most words won't attract my ire, but a few will.  You won't know which ones.  I can now enter your posts without leaving any signatures, so if you say something obnoxious, it'll probably get changed to make you look like a fucking moron.  

#4 - Illegal gun stuff.  I'll defer to John on that one, if he's around.  I don't know all, but I can wing it with 99% accuracy.  If I act on that stuff, you'll have no warning at all.  I'll just send a link to your post to the DHS and let them figure it out.  


--



Go ahead and bitch all you want.  Those tools are in my mod kit, and you fuckers wanna dig into the nuances of the ToS, I'm well within my parameters.

The point is civility, and personal responsibility.  You say it, you fuckin' own it.  And after a few days, when you've forgotten about it, it'll maybe become a Google Maps link to your house.  If it pisses me off.  

You won't know what got changed, or where.  So you'll have to look back over all your shit forever, if you habitually use racial epithets to see if you have something embarrassing attached to your posts, or if it's signed with your own personal information rather than hiding in anonymity.  As far as I'm concerned, when you threaten violence or use harassing tactics, you forfeit your right to anonymous existence here.  So, you probably won't be banned, but you'll wish you were.

...

I know where you go, what you review.  If you typically review your posts to page three, I'll start fucking with your posts on page four.  And you will be ultimately be dragging a wagon-load of the most damaging shit you've ever imagined.  

Welcome to Thunderdome.  

Thats what you get for making me think hard about how to operate within the parameters.  I don't like to operate within the parameters.  Don't make me think hard again, because I guarantee I am the most vicious person you'll run across in a long, long time.
  




This thread will remain open and sticky'd as an alert page for you people to police yourselves.  This is not a discussion thread, but you can talk here for a while regarding the above.  Remember, this forum is public, and virtually un-moderated.  The forum where almost anything goes.  And the things that don't go, well..  won't go well for you.

#4 - Illegal gun stuff.  I'll defer to John on that one, if he's around.  I don't know all, but I can wing it with 99% accuracy.  If I act on that stuff, you'll have no warning at all.  I'll just send a link to your post to the DHS and let them figure it out.

fuck....  AND  I don't think Ian would like that.  It is definitely not in keeping w/ the keep the law far far from here philosophy.

He's on probation, after jail.  This is his property, and illegal gun is illegal.  

Legally, it's probably required to inform the law.  I donno for sure, but I'll guess it probably is.  Its called being proactive to make sure it simply doesn't happen, before it happens.  You should thank me on behalf of those people, that I'll fuck with them and run them off before someone got into serious problems.  

When we delete shit here, it's not actually deleted.  It still resides in the system, in a junk file you can't see.  So, it's still on the premises.  People get fucked federally when electronic message systems distribute data across state lines.  Ian could potentially get in more trouble than the guy who posted it, since he owns the place.  The feds could use it as a legitimate reason to haul him off when he's just sitting on his couch, not doing anything wrong at all.  He wouldn't even know it was here.  How the fuck is he supposed to know the details of everything that's here?  

It would be helpful if you'd have a better understanding of the concepts you're opining upon.  I know that you actually do, and I'm not being insulting.  I just don't think the whole enchilada occurred to you, having never gave it much thought from this perspective.  Thats understandable.  No sarcasm here, no insults, it's not a stab.  

You wanna post illegal gun stuff here, better think hard about it.  For the record, no bomb stuff, either.  Blackies bomb thread I don't like, but I'm willing to bet it's safe.  He's a pretty smart guy.  But from here on out, I'm gonna be looking much closer.

The reason you stay zero-tolerance is obvious.  If this place turns to a meeting-hall for violent people, with violent agendas, discussing bad things openly because they think it's un-moderated, that's my fault.  

So, those are the people who may "drag the wagon-load" of damaging personal info, or look like they have an obsession with very crude bestiality.  DHS is the absolute last resort.  Before that, they'll be discouraged in a variety of ways.  Usually, people ramp-up and start with plain vanilla violence.  If they challenge and challenge, and refuse to comply - off it goes. They don't come out of the chute on Post #1 posting modified gun informational blueprints.  

It amuses me that people bitch so hard about what may happen.  We've had a zero-tolerance policy against illegal gun stuff here for years.  And suddenly NOW  you have a problem with it.  

IIRC, that is the first time anyone had ever said there is a problem with "bomb" threads. And so far, Brasky is the only one that has said that. In the 5 or 6 years I have been posting here I have never received a PM from a mod, or any other user about those threads or posts. Considering Ian just made me a mod again, I assume he doesn't have a problem with it.

But anyway, here was my response:

 For the record, no bomb stuff, either.  Blackies bomb thread I don't like, but I'm willing to bet it's safe.  He's a pretty smart guy.  But from here on out, I'm gonna be looking much closer.

I've been holding off two weeks on a pretty good update for that thread about the Oslo bombing. I edited the dude's 1400 page rant down to about 60 pages. It's pretty much a log of his activities leading up to the bombing, including details of the bomb construction.

edit:
Now that I think about it, you can just delete that thread. I can find a different place to discuss recent bombings.

I can ban him, you know.

I can ban Brasky. I just checked. If he pulls one of his mod power trips again, I will.

[dalebert]

Every other mod at least gives people way too many chances.

I'm not that nice.

In the Wild West, it's well known that he banned a guy just for snoring.

[dalebert]

For fuck's sakes. More than a year ago you, Shaw, reminded me that we had "buried the hatchet" on this shit. Why are you singling me out again? Especially considering this nonsense is between Brasky and myself and has nothing to do with you.

Can I take a stab at this as someone who might be slightly more objective by virtue of not being familiar with the old argument (at least I've forgotten if I did see it).

Maybe cause you're stirring shit up again after it felt all settled? And maybe Shaw is being as honest as he possibly can be. You sound kinda like a bigot to me by being upset about not being able to say "nigger" with wild abandon. Do I KNOW you're a bigot? No. Am I really confident you're a bigot? No. I just kinda suspect you are. Like was said, you seem obsessed.

And now you're arguing with the mods about policy, which makes you kinda sound like a troll to boot. That matters way more than being racist on a forum. A racist who is trying to persuade would actually carefully word their arguments to not directly offend because that interferes with actual persuasion. A troll will push buttons because they like to stir shit up and get attn, even negative attn. They often are entertained by it, i.e. they are entertained at the expense of others having a good experience and trying to have productive or at least fun discussions. Either that ore they just suck at persuasion and will resort to pushing to keep a discussion going when others have gotten bored with them.

[JohnnyCarson]

It's quite interesting how the owner (Ian?)
capitulated to a wild rant/tantrum by this " Brasky" person.
This is the sort of character he chooses to be an impartial & fair constable in this forum?
I also see the cronyism between at least 3 of these,  so called, moderators.
Where's the check & balance? Or am I going to be told to mind my own fucking business as well?

[Turd Ferguson]

Where's the check & balance? Or am I going to be told to mind my own fucking business as well?

I dont know.....

I'm not really cronies with any of them, but I've never been banned for offensive stuff I've said in the past. I think it comes down to personally hurtful shit thats been directed towards one person or another at different times in the past, usually set off by just one comment or suggestion by a mod to a poster about something they've said........then it snowballs. That shit sticks sometimes.


"ALL YOUR MOMS CAN SUCK MY COCK!!"


See? Im still here.