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Author Topic: Mama Ally rebuttle.  (Read 24205 times)

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alaric89

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2010, 05:02:42 AM »

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8&feature=related[/youtube]

 :lol: Nice try guys.

garlynn

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2010, 11:33:41 AM »

http://www.facebook.com/freetalklive/posts/461319249071
the FTL fb page post by Ally talking about her stance on aggression.

It looks like she doesn’t understand that self defense is ok for those who abide by the NAP and that as activists we DONT seek permission from the state to do what we are doing.  To a certain extent she is confusing the NAP with pacifism.  This is understandable to someone new to the movement as it takes time to distinguish exactly what non-aggression is. But, her threats, derogatory language and insults are a clear indication that she is not willing to learn at this time. Catering to her behavior will only reinforce it.  She looks down on us “peace pushers” as she calls us. It is clear that at this time she rejects the NAP. 

The derogatory speech, the insults and the threats have been evident all along (prior to her daughter being taken). See here where in person and online I have witnessed aggressive and threatening behavior repeatedly. Her original racist comment was posted on September 22, before she was taken back down to SAV for jumping bail and before her daughter was taken by the state.  http://blog.xaqfixx.com/?p=154

Even if you think her racist comments are okay at this time (due to stress), she doesn’t support the NAP and that removes her from this community that we are striving so hard to establish based on those principles.

Dissent should never lead to threats. How would you react if you or your spouse were threatened? Especially given the previous encounters I have had with this person.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BwiK7pjJI6ejNmQ0MmQzM2ItMWNkZC00M2ZhLWFiZjktYjA2ZDc2ZWQ0ZDdm&hl=en
My discussion with Ally. Her response to why Xaq wasn’t responding to her threatening message:
Specifically -

Momma Ally -“I am down to talk it out anytime but as of yet he hasn’t given me the opportunity. It took YOU posting on my wall for me to be able to defend myself against it. He won’t even answer my messages. I am always up for learning and productive relationships. Anytime he is ready to be real he obviously knows where to find me :)” 

(Xaq at this point has blocked her because “her messages” was actually the threat I posted before.)

Me -  “with such phrases as:
dirty dog piece of shit
snake bastard
"i will show you no mercy"
"remember all the shit you talk on here will have to be answered for in person some day"

no reasonable conversation can be expected by a response to a message like this. i prefer to keep my interaction with you public so as to keep this type of threatening language to a minimum.”

(to which she responded)

“Those comments were sooooo warranted....” which you can read the rest on that link.

At the very least, stop calling her an Agorist.  The business might be counter economic but she is not a counter economist bc she has expressed her rejection of the NAP. 

http://agorism.info/ Definitions
Agorism
the ideology which asserts that the Libertarian philosophical position occurs in the real world in practice as Counter-Economics.
Agorist
advocate or conscious practitioner of Counter-Economics, older terms include Left Libertarian and New Libertarian.
Counter-Economics
the study and/or practice of all peaceful human action which is forbidden by the State.
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alaric89

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2010, 02:49:14 PM »

If the person who started the thread (now gone) Had simply said, "I think Mama Ally is a bitch because...." I wouldn't have gotten involved. I believe people have the right to dislike people inside the movement and out.
The poster titled the thread "Mam Ally bla bla rasist bla bla." (I don't remember)
What brought my attention was the use of a demonising fighting word which I believe to be dangerous to her personally. I know damn well, as I have explained, that being stamped as a racist is like being stamped as a sex offender. You are guilty no matter what and it has with huge repercussions.
Confusion about the NAP goes both ways. Here on the BBS we got a couple of pacifists. http://bbs.freetalklive.com/rubber-room-for-trolls-not-safe-for-work/why-the-opposition-to-pacifism/
Mama Ally kinda had the liberty movement take her in, without her asking first really. I don't imagine she has really bit in to the philosophy of the ideas. Has she ever claimed to?

alaric89

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2010, 08:46:55 AM »

A poster on this thread named Mandylynn ended up on my "ignore" I immediately unignored it. I am not afraid of debate, and don't know how it happened. It wasn't me.

Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2011, 04:55:51 PM »

Calling people niggers, as a group or as individuals, lowers my opinion of the person using the epithet.  This, in combination with requesting a "call flood" on national radio toward a family member at a specific phone number and jumping bail raises serious concerns.

What brought my attention was the use of a demonising fighting word which I believe to be dangerous to her personally.

"Nigger" is commonly recognized as a fighting word, and when uttered in the wrong company, will certainly be "dangerous."  It's laughable that someone would accuse a responder who calls that racist of himself issuing fighting words.
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hellbilly

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2011, 06:05:26 PM »

What's a better replacement term?

I'm asking this sincerely.
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2011, 08:13:29 PM »

What's a better replacement term?

I'm asking this sincerely.

moon cricket?  :roll:
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blackie

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2011, 09:38:34 PM »

What's a better replacement term?

I'm asking this sincerely.
What is the definition of the term you would like a replacement for?
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ox

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2011, 11:40:14 PM »

I have higher standards for people who claim to be libertarian. They don't get a pass because they say freedom a lot.

*chime*
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hellbilly

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2011, 11:42:29 PM »

What's a better replacement term?

I'm asking this sincerely.
What is the definition of the term you would like a replacement for?

It's quite a broad definition really, and one which seems to remain in a certain state of flux as far as acceptability or inappropriateness is concerned. But lets be honest. Assuming all present are rational adults with no emotional attachment to this argument whatsoever, I can justifiably narrow the focus of your requested definition down to a singular phrase: "Yo Mama".

Interesting for you to note blackie.. I've realized that I am not a "realist", but a "rationalist" instead on this topic of race.
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

alaric89

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2011, 02:58:15 AM »

Lets take the race card out of the deck. Can I use descriptions of groups of people without being called a racist. How about I actually hurt someone before I am called a criminal? Who hurts people the most the racist who does nothing against those who they are racist against except use impolite words or the self- righteous person who tries to make the accused "racist's" life difficult.
The witch burners burned many heretics. Was this right?
I want to take the whole racist argument out of the running anyway. If this whole thing is just about the snafu with the dogs, then I have been arguing wrong. Mama Ally isn't a racist by any practical sense of the word. And until someone who doesn't have a ax to grind brings me a pitcher of Mama Ally actually hurting someone from a minority race I shall continue to say so.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 03:05:14 AM by alaric89 »
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2011, 03:15:52 AM »

You're just wrong if you think running around calling people niggers isn't racist.  She also called for a "call flood" on national radio and jumped bail.  I don't see what's so hard to understand.
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Osborne

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2011, 03:33:02 AM »

Have a simmer, whilst I spin a yarn for you.

Suppose you have a husband who you think is the greatest in all the land. I happen to agree with you that, yes, this indeed a fine specimen of gentlemanhood.

Suppose further that I happen to see your husband out one night carousing with other men - twisting their nipples and slapping asses - in an elementary school parking lot. Nothing horrible, not hurting anyone, of course. But I decide to tell you about it. You say 'whatever' and forget about it.

Suppose that a couple weeks later, I see him out again flashing his genitals at old ladies with grandchildren. No NAP violation certainly, but it still makes me ill at ease. So now I decide to inform you of this episode. This time he overhears me tell you about it. Instead of reflecting upon his uncouth behavior, he goes all crazy, what-with calling my house, posting notices, calling names, making ambiguous threats regarding his boys at his dogfighting club.

So what do you do? Well you call me the instigator, of course. I am the one who escalated this situation by reporting facts. None of this would have ever happened if I hadn't opened my mouth. You would have never had to know any of this unpleasantness. You would never have to listen to an upset husband.

After having a long night of spooning, you convince him to make a public, what you call, 'apology'. It goes something like, "I apologize to any person or extraterrestrial I may have ever hurt in this or any former life because I had no idea." Well, clearly I don't accept this non-apology and in return request publicly that he stay physically away from me, since his aggressive outbursts are seemingly unpredictable and dangerous to my person.

Then how do you respond? Oh, that I am the one who will not let this go. I am the one who will not forgive. I am the one is being ridiculous. I am "bullying" your husband by asking him to stay physically away from me.

Done.

So, in conclusion:
1) quoting someone word-for-word, even screen-shotting, is "bullying"
2) restating facts with extreme spin so as to eliminate all relevance is "unbiased"
3) passive aggression is "apology"


Oh and one other thing. "Niggers are stupid because they used to be slaves" gets a pass, while Jeebus in heaven fucking save us now if someone dares claim "Hispanics are more likely, on average, to have big rims on their cars"?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 03:36:31 AM by Osborne »
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Riddler

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2011, 06:53:38 AM »

Referring to people as n*****s qualifies one to be labeled as a racist,



nigga, please...
you obviously missed the tutorial
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Riddler

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Re: Mama Ally rebuttle.
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2011, 06:57:32 AM »

Would I avoid a small group of young black men dodgingly walking down the street? Fuck an a right I would., but some peckerhead might call me a racist if I was seen crossing the street to avoid what looked like a gang.



jesse jackson admitted the same in an interview (ie: being nervous about blacks on the street)
perfectly reasonable response
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