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Author Topic: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!  (Read 148335 times)

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NuroSlam

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2009, 04:16:10 PM »

Window manager, virtual machine (CLR), application stack, business solutions, and so on.  Microsoft Office and Visual Studio are still tops, and I expect Silverlight to give Flash a serious run for its money a couple of years from now.

Microsoft has been investing tens of billions into R&D all over the world lately, and it's finally starting to pay off.  You should check out some Microsoft propaganda feeds:  ch9, ch10, OnMicrosoft, WindowsClient.net, etc (especially the first two).


No thanks, im quite happy with debian/gnome
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Alex Libman

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2009, 04:21:34 PM »

The vast majority of people doing office work are not.
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NuroSlam

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2009, 04:22:13 PM »

Window manager, virtual machine (CLR), application stack, business solutions, and so on.  Microsoft Office and Visual Studio are still tops, and I expect Silverlight to give Flash a serious run for its money a couple of years from now.

Microsoft has been investing tens of billions into R&D all over the world lately, and it's finally starting to pay off.  You should check out some Microsoft propaganda feeds:  ch9, ch10, OnMicrosoft, WindowsClient.net, etc (especially the first two).


Until there is something i can't do with opensource that i have to have windows for then we can talk about it, as it stands, propaganda is propaganda and its wasted on me
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NuroSlam

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2009, 04:25:10 PM »

The vast majority of people doing office work are not.


Thats funny, the last office i dealt with NRS was extremely happy with debian and the increase of productivity by 150%
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Alex Libman

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2009, 04:45:03 PM »

And the last office I've dealt with was a freaking jungle: like 3 indoor palms per cubicle.  It also had bowls of fruit and cats living there 24/7.  I'm sure it's not representative of all offices out there in the world.  And neither is your experience at NRS.
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NuroSlam

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2009, 05:11:59 PM »

And the last office I've dealt with was a freaking jungle: like 3 indoor palms per cubicle.  It also had bowls of fruit and cats living there 24/7.  I'm sure it's not representative of all offices out there in the world.  And neither is your experience at NRS.


actually, as a multi site call center it was, 500 employees, ditched cisco phone switches with asterisks, office with open offce, XP with debian, novell with imap and thunderbird, and added SugarCRM for contact managment and autodial system 

budget for the year was 5 million, spent 145k to get rid off all those crap license fees
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blackie

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2009, 05:13:06 PM »

They all suck.

That said, I will use whatever. I am really starting to like hypervisors. VMware has a good lead on everyone else, but the others will catch up. Microsoft is just getting into the game with Hyper-V.
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Alex Libman

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2009, 05:27:20 PM »

NuroSlam, I wasn't talking about the size of your last office, I was saying it is an exception.
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NuroSlam

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2009, 05:47:03 PM »

The difference is, im not saying anything sucks, what I am saying is that for me, I have more freedom to do what I want to do with linux then M$, and from a business standpoint, where the dollar is the bottom line, it makes more sense to replace costly M$ license fee's with opensource software whenever possible.

Windows is a nice windows manager, and yes, most people are comfortable with it. Myself, I like to do things in the most efficient manner, be it console or windowed. when I need window managing and heavy console use I switch to Rat Poison as a window manager, but, as I am no longer in the IT arena, i use gnome because my wife likes it and was an easy switch for her when her 98 box died and had to rely on my laptop.

To say linux is no more secure then windows just not a target of the script kiddies is disingenuous, just take the results of the hackers bowl, where the finest system cracks gather to win money.

Quote
It's the most anticipated matchup in the hacker world: Linux versus Mac OS X versus Vista. Who will get hacked first?

That's what organizers of the CanSecWest security conference hope to discover this week as they give show attendees a shot at hacking into the three laptops they've put on display here in Vancouver.

The catch? They have to use a brand-new 'zero day' attack that nobody has seen before. The prize? US$20,000, plus you get to keep the laptop.

Show organizers are calling the contest PWN 2 OWN. Pwn (which rhymes with own) is a hacker term meaning to take control of a computer.

$20,000 may sound like a lot of money, but show attendees say that top-quality computer attack code could easily fetch that much, either from the security vendors like iDefense or Tipping Point who purchase this type of software, or from one of the three-letter U.S. government agencies said to be in the market for this type of code as well.

Charlie Miller, best known as one of the Independent Security Evaluators researchers who first hacked the iPhone last year, said he's participating, not for the cash prize, but for the thrill of seeing whether or not he can be first to hack one of the computers. "For me it's the Super Bowl of security research," he said. "I'm a competitive guy."

By late Wednesday -- the first day of the contest, nobody had even tried to hack the three laptops. This wasn't exactly a surprise to the contest's organizers because on day one attackers were only allowed to use network-based attacks that involved no user interaction. Those type of attacks are extremely rare these days.

Miller said that he will drop his exploit code on the MacBook Air Thursday, once the rules relax a bit and the hackers are allowed to try attacks that require user action such as visiting a malicious Web site or opening an e-mail.

There is a downside to waiting until Thursday, however. The prize money drops in half each day. If no one has claimed the laptops by Friday, the prize bottoms out at $5,000 and organizers will start installing non-standard software on the machines to see if they can be compromised through programs such as Skype.

Last year's contest generated a lot of attention, but it featured only one laptop: a MacBook Pro. It was won by researcher Dino Dai Zovi, who wasn't at the conference, but asked a friend to run his attack on the machine. Dai Zovi showed up in person at CanSecWest this year, however, making him another prime candidate to win the prize.

With three laptops to chose from, this year, the 2008 contest is a bit of a horse race.

"It will be interesting to see which one goes first," said Aaron Portnoy, a researcher with TippingPoint, the company that has put up the prize money. "We've tried really hard to make sure the attack surface is the same on all of them."

and the results?
Quote
After a week full of Red Bulls, Fruit by the Foot and dreams of In-N-Out, the mighty Sony VAIO loaded with Linux stood as the only machine unhacked by the end of the PWN 2 OWN hacking contest at CanSecWest. As you're well aware by now, the MacBook Air on display was seized in two minutes by the presumably well prepared Charlie Miller, and after two full days of work, Shane Macaulay and a few of his 1337 associates managed to crack the Vista rig on Friday. Reportedly, Shane and his pals weren't expecting to do battle with the extra protected SP1 version of Vista, and while the exact loophole won't be divulged, we are told that it was a cross-platform bug that "took advantage of Java to circumvent Vista's security." In the end, it was reported that some folks on hand had discovered bugs in the Linux OS, but many of them "didn't want to put the work into developing the exploit code that would be required to win the contest."

The finest crackers in the world disagree with you
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NuroSlam

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2009, 05:52:38 PM »

NuroSlam, I wasn't talking about the size of your last office, I was saying it is an exception.

In my IT past, it was not the exception, it was the norm, the difference was that before i/we as a crew would take a job, we would make it clear it was our way or the highway, and with routinely saving companies millions in IT costs we had the clout to do it. Not only would we save IT money but we always found a way to make IT profitable. as an example "hey, since your doing medical billing, why not have a HIPPA compliant service to offer them and make billing easier while selling EMR services, oh, by the way, we have an opensource HIPA server up an running to DEMO for ya"
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Alex Libman

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2009, 06:18:45 PM »

There's a lot of selection bias when it comes to security tests like this: if Linux had a distro that was preconfigured for the same things Microsoft deliberately preconfigures Windows for, its security would suffer also.  And hackers tend to help patch up the Linux / BSD security holes they discover while exploiting the Windows ones.  If give a choice between security and market share, Microsoft will choose market share every time.  I'm sure its investors and employees are grateful.

And its true that the open-source world has learned to do some things very well, but Microsoft continued to move ahead.  Look at the products it has in the pipeline...  Does Linux have anything close to Silverlight 3?  Heck, does it even have a good IDE or BitTorrent client that isn't written in Java?  (Best options come from KDE-land Kdevelop and Ktorrent, and they can't compete with what Windows has to offer.)  And is anyone gonna rewrite the Linux kernel for JVM any time soon?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 06:26:28 PM by Alex Libman »
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NuroSlam

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2009, 06:33:14 PM »

There's a lot of selection bias when it comes to security tests like this: if Linux had a distro that was preconfigured for the same things Microsoft deliberately preconfigures Windows for, its security would suffer also.  And hackers tend to help patch up the Linux / BSD security holes they discover while exploiting the Windows ones.  If give a choice between security and market share, Microsoft will choose market share every time.  I'm sure its investors and employees are grateful.


I'm sure they are, but as a systems engineer, I'll take adaptability over "market share". I left he windows platform long ago (3.11)  for just that very reason, and have never regretted it leaving it behind nor the money i have made from it has brought me. as an example: 50k site license per year for a cisco/avaya phone system, or 7k for a blade server running asterisks/sugarCRM and 3 times the auto dial volume with no license fee.

Im sure if M$ windows were open source the patches would be just as common from the community
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Alex Libman

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2009, 06:58:37 PM »

Your VoIP example is off-point - I'm praising Microsoft recent desktop-related enhancements in this thread, not Cisco / Avaya.

And I still use LAMP-related technologies on the server-site for all cases where I had a choice.  I've never used it for CRM though: every client I've worked with used Oracle or Microsoft.  Plus I hear Sugar is slow, doesn't scale well, and its GPL v3 scares me.
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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2009, 07:08:53 PM »

There's a lot of selection bias when it comes to security tests like this: if Linux had a distro that was preconfigured for the same things Microsoft deliberately preconfigures Windows for, its security would suffer also.  And hackers tend to help patch up the Linux / BSD security holes they discover while exploiting the Windows ones.  If give a choice between security and market share, Microsoft will choose market share every time.  I'm sure its investors and employees are grateful.


I'm sure they are, but as a systems engineer, I'll take adaptability over "market share". I left he windows platform long ago (3.11)  for just that very reason, and have never regretted it leaving it behind nor the money i have made from it has brought me. as an example: 50k site license per year for a cisco/avaya phone system, or 7k for a blade server running asterisks/sugarCRM and 3 times the auto dial volume with no license fee.

Im sure if M$ windows were open source the patches would be just as common from the community
Eh Windows 3.1 was junk, I always preferred MSDOSSHELL to 3.1 back then. 
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NuroSlam

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Re: Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!
« Reply #74 on: April 11, 2009, 07:26:19 PM »

There's a lot of selection bias when it comes to security tests like this: if Linux had a distro that was preconfigured for the same things Microsoft deliberately preconfigures Windows for, its security would suffer also.  And hackers tend to help patch up the Linux / BSD security holes they discover while exploiting the Windows ones.  If give a choice between security and market share, Microsoft will choose market share every time.  I'm sure its investors and employees are grateful.


I'm sure they are, but as a systems engineer, I'll take adaptability over "market share". I left he windows platform long ago (3.11)  for just that very reason, and have never regretted it leaving it behind nor the money i have made from it has brought me. as an example: 50k site license per year for a cisco/avaya phone system, or 7k for a blade server running asterisks/sugarCRM and 3 times the auto dial volume with no license fee.

Im sure if M$ windows were open source the patches would be just as common from the community
Eh Windows 3.1 was junk, I always preferred MSDOSSHELL to 3.1 back then. 

yes 3.1 was junk, 3.11 (WFW windows for workgroups) was just a touch better, but thats when i got turned onto slackware (kernel 0.99 still have the disks) and i never looked back. I do have a friend that to this day still uses 3.11 (on a 2 ghz machine, theres nothing faster and nothing that works with it!)
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