Linux Sucks. Java sucks. I'm a Microsoft guy again!

[BobRobertson]

Not gonna reply to Bob Robertson point-by-point: not worth my time.

You've already tried to do it, and failed. Glad you've finally admitted defeat.

• Linus manboobs - hahaha, no.  It's like calling miniature golf "golf".

It was a joke. Just like the Gates picture. Sorry to have to point that sort of thing out.

Sure, Linux is cheaper to install than Windows - you can only download the parts you need, and install it without burning a CD.

Another lie, AL. Download the entire Debian distribution on 31 CDs or 5 DVDs if you want, with 26,000 software packages from kernels to compilers to web development, multiple browsers, multiple GUIs, multiple video players, multiple audio players, video authoring and editing, hundreds of games, etc. Oh, and that's for each of 12 hardware architectures, mainframes to cell phones, or the entire thing in source code.

OR, not "can only", grab a 35MB bootable business-card CD image.

OR, not "can only", visit http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ and do a live network install without downloading anything ahead of time.

OR, not "can only", drop by http://www.VirtualBox.org/ and run VirtualBox on your present machine, boot one of the install CD images, and give it a try.

Then... you spend the week with a "WTF, this is it?!  Where's the rest of it!?" feeling before going back to Windows.

Just because it didn't work out for you doesn't mean it won't work for everyone else. From the way you've written, it's clear you were looking for a free-as-in-beer Windows clone.

On that note, have you tried ReactOS.org? If what you want is a clone of Windows, then get a clone of Windows.

But really, considering just what one gets with an install of Windows, it is the sad Windows user who is left to wander the wastelands of third-party software sites hunting for something more useful than FreeCell and Notepad.

It's kinda of like going vegan - your choices are limited, everything tastes like cardboard, but you actually believe Mother Earth is very proud of you.  Of course you can't enjoy that supposed virtue for virtue's sake, you gotta find some meat-eaters / Microsoft users and tell them how superior you are. 

Since you started this thread, AL, this last comment is autobiographical by definition.

[Alex Libman 15]

Nice try trying to engage me in further conversation, but the rentacoder.com "Troll For Microsoft" project instructions say I'm to ignore hippie troublemakers like you. 

[Kevin Freeheart]

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

That was a good one.

[Alex Libman 15]

In that comic, I agree with the guy on the right.  Being able to run on faster mainframe servers is far more important than "smooth full-screen flash video" (or even a decent lean GUI BitTorrent client), because that's what sane people use Linux for, server-side stuff.

I just checked out KDE 4.3, and it still didn't catch up to Windows 7 in terms of UI experience and stability, but ran far slower.

[BobRobertson]

A perfect example, since I just got finished watching http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=91&task=videodirectlink&id=3407 in full screen without trouble.

Now if you want to talk about how Adobe is dragging their feet about releasing their applications for Linux, I'm all for it.

Surely the Linux nay-sayers can come with an actual F/OSS failure, rather than just another example of disfunctional proprietary software like Flash?

because that's what sane people use Linux for, server-side stuff.

Right out of the Microsoft handbook. That's been their line for a decade, since they abandoned the server side to focus their marketing on hanging onto the desktop.

I just checked out KDE 4.3, and it still didn't catch up to Windows 7 in terms of UI experience and stability, but ran far slower.

Unlike you, A.L., I have no problem with you using whatever works best for you. Your use of Windows is no danger to me, unlike my use of Linux which seems to send you into apoplexy.

"Catch up" is not accurate. KDE4 was out before Win7, so it is a non-sequiter to claim that KDE4 is "catching up". You may prefer one over the other, which is just human nature and the reason there are numerous GUI styles in every computer environment not monopolized by a single vendor.

I prefer KDE3. It's nice to have that choice and be able to run the latest kernels, too. See, A.L.? My personal preference, without pretending that you're stupid for not thinking the same thing.

[Kevin Freeheart]

Geeze, I'm interjecting humor (as a former Linux zealot, no less!) and I see hostility. So...

Surely the Linux nay-sayers can come with an actual F/OSS failure, rather than just another example of disfunctional proprietary software like Flash?

Here's one... The GPL-licensed Intel driver's use of the GPL-licensed Linux kernel's Kernel Mode Setting being integrated into the MIT-license Xorg in the variously-licensed Ubuntu distro that is currently the world's most popular.

Or Richard Stallman's very existence.

[BobRobertson]

Geeze, I'm interjecting humor (as a former Linux zealot, no less!) and I see hostility.

Sadly, in a situation like this, self-depreciating humor only gives fuel to the trolls.

Yes, flash video is a problem. It's just not a F/OSS problem. It's like saying that Voluntarianism doesn't work, because the activists keep getting dragged away in chains.

BTW, thanks for the comic, I just posted it on LXer.com

The GPL-licensed Intel driver's use of the GPL-licensed Linux kernel's Kernel Mode Setting being integrated into the MIT-license Xorg in the variously-licensed Ubuntu distro that is currently the world's most popular.

The fact that the Intel driver is GPL and Xorg is MIT doesn't seem a problem, since the source is available and the difference is how the source is utilized not the binaries. The person who uses the source files will see the license mentioned in them, so avoiding problems isn't difficult.

One nice thing about Xorg is that the various drivers are modular, not compiled in, so there's no conflict.

The only conflicts are in distributions like Debian, which requires that the base distribution be entirely GPL/BSD/MIT or other fully "free" license. Ubuntu makes no such distinction. As you state, "variously licensed".

Or Richard Stallman's very existence.

If RMS stopped at "choice". I'd have no problem with him. What he says about the problems of proprietary software is dead on, and his relentless position has been a bright light in the gloom of FUD. But he goes on to the common leftist error of advocating the forcing of choice, the delusion that it's possible to use legal coercion to enforce his idea of right and wrong on others.

I'm glad that Stallman has done what he's done, which has been more effective because of the moderating influences of the various more pragmatic (Torvalds, et al) and libertarian (ESR, et al) individuals. No one person has overwhelming influence, no one has "authority" over anything but their own work. They must persuade, which is wonderful.

A truly voluntary society, Free and Open Source Software.

[Alex Libman 15]

From Slashdot -- Microsoft Launches Its Own Open Source Foundation --

Microsoft already had its own open source (OSI-approved) licenses, its own open source project hosting site and now it's adding its own non-profit open source foundation.  That's right, the company that is still banging the patent drum against open source now has its own 501(c)(6) open source foundation. Officially called the CodePlex Foundation, it's a separate effort from the CodePlex site and is aimed at helping to get more commercial developers involved in open source.  Considering how they continue to attack Linux and open source, will anyone take them seriously?

[Alex Libman 15]

From Slashdot -- Why Users Drop Open Source Apps For Proprietary Alternatives --

Hard as it may be to imagine, "free" is not always the primary selling point to open source software. This article makes some interesting points about subtle ways Open Source projects might lose to the competition.

Lack of features is a common answer you'd expect, but the author points out that complicated setup and configuration can be a real turn-off. Moreover, open source companies may not do enough to market major upgrades. If they did, they might lure back folks who tried and dumped the earlier, less polished version. This raises the question: what made you dump an open source app you were using? What could that project have done differently?

[blackie]

Now if you want to talk about how Adobe is dragging their feet about releasing their applications for Linux, I'm all for it.

They probably realize the ROI wouldn't be enough to make it worth while to do.

[PlainShane]

There exists a large internet community that would flame me for what I am about to say. I love Linux, yet believe that is a hobby OS. In other words, it's really just around as a second partition on the computer of most males between the ages of 16 - 35 for the purpose of a puzzle. It's fun to dick around with Ubuntu, search google for solutions, and then get the satisfaction that you got it to work. The reality that most subscribe to of it some day overtaking Windows and Mac is a pie in the sky.

I still use Ubuntu on a regular basis due to its speed, efficiency, and fun factor.

[BobRobertson]

I love Linux, yet believe that is a hobby OS.

Hardly flame-bait, if you mean that it's your "hobby" OS.

I keep a VirtualBox install of WinXP for exactly that reason, dicking around with it.

But I wouldn't try to tell others that WinXP is a "hobby" OS for them.

In other words, it's really just around as a second partition on the computer of most males between the ages of 16 - 35 for the purpose of a puzzle.

Ah, and there's the kicker.

You would get flamed not for using Linux as a hobby OS, but for making that judgement for other people.

Why not ask people what they use it for, rather than making judgements about people you haven't met? Post a query to LXer.com asking, "For me it's a hobby, what do you use it for?" and see what kind of responses you get.

Posing the question like that I don't think anyone will flame you at all.

The reality that most subscribe to of it some day overtaking Windows and Mac is a pie in the sky.

The reality is that Windows and Mac will both pass, given time, as will Linux. Not sure if Vegas is taking bets on which one will go first.

Another reality: If Microsoft fails, Windows is GONE. If Apple fails, OSX is GONE. No such single point of failure exists for Linux, including Linus Torvalds himself, although I am sure that his vacating his position would be unsettling.

I still use Ubuntu on a regular basis due to its speed, efficiency, and fun factor.

I don't use Ubuntu, but yeah, I agree it's all that.

[PlainShane]

My judgment was a generalization I formed after spending an endless amount of time on ubuntuforums.org. The statement was not just conjured up by my imagination; it is the conclusion easily drawn from reading many testimonials. The "hobby OS" saying was borrowed from the fellows of the Linux Action Show. It is a common opinion and debate. I apologize if it appeared that I was making demands for all to believe it is a hobby OS, rather it is my own opinion and that of many others.

Linux sure is a great place to run to when one thinks their windows install has a virus!

[BobRobertson]

My judgment was a generalization I formed after spending an endless amount of time on ubuntuforums.org.

Well, then I guess I will trust your judgement that Ubuntu is all that.

However, as you will find if you peruse more than that forum, Linux is far, far more than just Ubuntu.

I apologize if it appeared that I was making demands for all to believe it is a hobby OS, rather it is my own opinion and that of many others.

Considering the self-selecting "many", that's easy to understand.

Linux sure is a great place to run to when one thinks their windows install has a virus!

I've found that a Linux liveCD is the best Windows rescue disk.