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Author Topic: Liberty Dollar Question  (Read 3894 times)

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theodorelogan

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Liberty Dollar Question
« on: September 06, 2006, 11:28:36 AM »

Ok, so I am interested in liberty dollars and was browsing the website.

I have a question though.  A $20 bill (which costs $20) is only worth one ounce of silver?  I understand that exchange rates vary, but am I going to have to explain to everyone I try to give this too that it is really only worth...what...$13 or so in silver?

I am a bit confused.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2006, 12:42:56 PM »

Even though it is called a "Dollar" you may as well think of it as a foreign currency, because it is not on the same scale as Federal Reserve Notes.
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theodorelogan

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2006, 12:55:00 PM »

The other question is...why would I pay $20 for one ounce of silver?

I have one ounce silver eagles at home....why would I spend an extra 6-7 bucks for a piece of paper?
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theodorelogan

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2006, 03:36:58 PM »

I don't think I was clear.

I wasn't asking, "Why use Liberty Dollars instead of FRN's?"  I was asking "Why use Liberty Dollars instead of actual silver coins?"
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bushwacker

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2006, 06:18:01 PM »

LDs in coin form are "actual" silver! The reason that many don't use other forms is that they have numismatic "collector value", and are actually worth much more than their face value or their commodity value.
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Voodoo

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2006, 11:49:01 PM »

I don't think I was clear.

I wasn't asking, "Why use Liberty Dollars instead of FRN's?"  I was asking "Why use Liberty Dollars instead of actual silver coins?"

I suppose you could try, but most silver pieces don't have a face value on them.  I wouldn't expect retail establishments to keep track of silver prices, which can change from minute to minute...

This really is just a problem of trying to get the public informed on the topic first.  Just imagine going to your local McD's and giving the HS grad a 1 oz silver round that says 1 troy oz. 0.999 silver, or the "same" 1 oz liberty dollar that says "$20" on it.  I hate to say it but most of them probably won't even know what silver is and have no idea what to do with it, but at least if it says $20 or $10 they can either accept as if it were $10 FRN or $20 FRN and enter that in the computer.  I think that once the dollar starts to really become worthless then silver will become popular enough so that businesses will price in terms of ounces of silver.  Only then could you spend 1 oz coins in the general market.

However, having said all of that there is another important point.  If you want to invest in silver then you should most certainly not buy Liberty Dollars.  The Liberty Dollar is meant to be acquired and then spent as soon as you can.  The more you spend the more your incentive to use them because you will make more money.  This is because associates get the pieces at a "discount", similar to how banks get money for a discount from the FED.  This was the only way to give people the incentive to get them into circulation and start educating people.
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theodorelogan

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2006, 12:49:54 AM »

I should create my own silver currency...with notes that are fractions of a silver ounce, rather than paying $20 for an ounce of silver in Liberty Dollars.
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bushwacker

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2006, 01:08:03 AM »

It's the same thing though. All you're doing is changing what you're calling your units :)
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Reteo

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2006, 01:50:11 AM »

It would seem that a lot of confusion would end if we just ditch the word "Dollars" and just call them "Liberties," or something along that vein.

Then it becomes a completely separate unit of measure, and subject to currency conversion, and the FED can stew in their juices all they want; their attempt to cloud the issue will be completely neutralized.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 01:52:56 AM by Reteo »
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bushwacker

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 02:29:06 AM »

Yeah. Do you do this yourself? It seems like it would work better if you're the seller asking for $ or giving change rather than the person trying to buy from a seller that's unfamiliar with the monetary unit.
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Reteo

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 04:03:42 AM »

Not at this time.  'Sides, there's advantages and disadvantages to both.

Liberties: Clear unit of measure that starts relatively obscurely, and can become more recognizable with time.

Obviously, this makes the Liberty harder to trade in places of business, because of two difficulties:
1: Non-obvious places of exchange.
2: Inability to use the Liberty in a lot of places because they only deal with dollars.

Liberty Dollars: Recognizable unit of measure that is instantly picked up on, but prey to the vagaries of the terminology.

This makes the Liberty Dollar easier to trade with because the name resembles the Federal Reserve Note.  Due to this similiarity, however, this can have negative ramifications, particularly that the use of the word dollar can allow unscrupulous people (aka federal agents of all stripes) to claim the money is counterfeit or defrauding the "real thing."
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bushwacker

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2006, 06:38:13 PM »

Hmm. Someone should ask Mark about this. He's a marketing guy after all. In my experience so far, some people get it and others don't. Probably something like a 1:4 ratio (up front at least). In some ways, one could argue that the people who take it and then ask their boss if it's ok, etc. are more informed as they ask questions. They realize that it's something different, as opposed to those who take it and assume that it is connected to the US government in some way. About 50% of people seem to realize the difference, while about 50% don't (at least not enough).

Is this consistent for others, or is this just me?
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Ecolitan

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2006, 01:30:25 AM »

  Due to this similiarity, however, this can have negative ramifications, particularly that the use of the word dollar can allow unscrupulous people (aka federal agents of all stripes) to claim the money is counterfeit or defrauding the "real thing."

A....  Silver as currency is good.  Obviously it is advantageous to package that silver in a convenient and easily recognizable form (minting) and that is going to cost something.

2) If it's not an attempt to imply an even exchange with FRN's then why change the 1oz coin from $10 to $20 when the price of silver went above $10?

All you people with the "think of it as foreign currency" line....riddle me that.

Hmm. Someone should ask Mark about this. He's a marketing guy after all. In my experience so far, some people get it and others don't.

In my experience it is the job of marketing guys to believe their own BS.  If you want objective information the LAST thing you should do is ask a marketing guy.  I've done very well selling a product I believed in and I've done entirely average selling a product I had some reservations about.  I could not sell Ice to Eskimos because I'm naturally honest.  I don't make my living in marketing.

About 50% of people seem to realize the difference, while about 50% don't (at least not enough).
Is this consistent for others, or is this just me?

I bet 99% of people would get it if you just told them the straight truth.....  I want to trade you 1oz of minted silver for xxx goods/services.  The only reason to make it any more difficult is to put something over on them such as convincing them that 1oz of minted silver is worth 20 dollars.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 01:45:41 AM by Roycerson »
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Reteo

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2006, 03:25:23 AM »

Perception is power.
Those who control perception has the power.
Names are what identifies those things that are perceived.
A person who hears a word will associate it with the object they perceive as the name.
Something that uses the same word will be a challenger to the original name.
The owner of the original name will call the challenger illegitimate.

Money is the standard medium for exchange in a given economy.
Money is perceived to be measured by "Dollars" in the United States.
"Dollars" are perceived to be "Federal Reserve Notes" in the United States.
Federal Reserve Notes are percieved to be owned by the United States Government.
The United States Government has been perceived to have permitted the Federal Reserve Bank the right to handle the word "Dollar."
The United States Government has not been perceived to allow anyone else to compete with it.
The United States Government calls the competition's "Dollar" illegitimate.
Because the government is perceived to own the concept of the "Dollar," the government's claim is perceived to be legitimate.

----

Now, from that stream of consciousness, I hope you pick up something of my point.  I'll admit, I'm not a logic expert, so I probably glossed over some logical details, but I'm sure my point is clear.

As long as the term "Dollar" is tied to the "Liberty Dollar," it has to overcome the perception that "Dollar=FRN," and that "Liberty Dollar=Counterfeit FRN."

As such, you'd be fighting an uphill battle.  Were you to just reject the use of the word "Dollar," however, and either coin a new word, or just use the word "Liberty," or something similarly different, you can own the new measure for money, completely divorcing it from the Federal Reserve Bank, and giving it a chance to be a completely independent form of currency, which gives it its own validity.

Of course, it never hurts to have a website dedicated to offering the current exchange rate for the medium, whatever it be called.
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sillyperson

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Re: Liberty Dollar Question
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2006, 07:52:41 AM »

it is really only worth...what...$13 or so in silver?
Congratulations, you just discovered "fundamentals", one of the first things to know before making any investment.
LD's are a crappy investment, from a financial perspective.
They may or may not be a worthy investment from the perspective of educating people.
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