Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY  (Read 13765 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

anarchir

  • Extraordinaire
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5103
  • No victim, no crime.
    • View Profile
    • Prepared Security
Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« on: March 18, 2011, 03:10:30 PM »

http://coinworld.com/News/20110328/Bulletin720110328.aspx

Quote
He was found guilty of making counterfeit coins and an intent to defraud. Sentencing will be held in several months.

The jury reached its decision in less than 90 minutes.

 :x


Wikipedia page has not been updated yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar
Logged
Good people disobey bad laws.
PreparedSecurity.com - Modern security and preparedness for the 21st century.
 [img width= height= alt=Prepared Security]http://www.prepareddesign.com/uploads/4/4/3/6/4436847/1636340_orig.png[/img]

Cognitive Dissident

  • Amateur Agorist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2011, 04:32:20 PM »

My God, that's pathetic!
Logged

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 06:27:30 PM »

It doesn't even make sense.  How in the hell could they be counterfeit?  They look nothing like US dollars!
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

BonerJoe

  • Guest
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2011, 08:55:38 PM »

ITS THE LAWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Logged

dalebert

  • Blasphemor
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6622
    • View Profile
    • Flaming Freedom
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 01:00:08 PM »

It doesn't even make sense.  How in the hell could they be counterfeit?  They look nothing like US dollars!

That just means they're badly-done counterfeiting.  They used dollar signs and certainly implied that they were valid U.S. currency.  If I'm looking to use an alternate currency, I sure as Hell don't want a dollar sign on it.  Seems to miss the point.

As an alternative currency product, Liberty Dollars suck ass.  It's like they set out to make an alternative but didn't want to make it TOO much better than FRNs.  The model seemed to appeal to the activist nature of people to want to train others to accept alternate currency in a manner that failed to take advantage of silver's ability to hedge against inflation.  You know, probably the MAIN biggest reason to use alternate currency in the first place?

"We're going to put dollar signs on these so you can trick naive people into thinking they're legal currency and that will get people used to the idea alternate currencies after lots of these are in regular circulation.  (And they had tips on how to deceive people without technically saying any outright lies.)  Meanwhile, as FRNs get devalued, we'll take your Liberty Dollars and swap them out for coins with an upgraded FRN value (for a nice fee! Yum!)"

So all the while, they sell them at an insane markup over spot, and part of the justification was it might someday be necessary to make a lot of money to cover legal fees.  So legal fees were supposedly built into the business model.  Of course, they asked for donations when that time came-- selective memory.

All that said, I still didn't want them to lose.  The proper "punishment" for their exploitative and deception-based racket would have been for them to ultimately fail in a free(r) market.  I would have tried to spur a campaign of enlightenment and counter-propaganda.  When someone tried to buy something from me with one, I'd offer them silver value plus a reasonable coinage rate for them, ignoring the dollar signs stamped on the coin (the bad counterfeiting).  When they complain that they paid way more than that for it, I'd say "then you're a dumbass".

anarchir

  • Extraordinaire
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5103
  • No victim, no crime.
    • View Profile
    • Prepared Security
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 01:07:11 PM »

Liberty dollars came and went before I got involved in silver, but here is another article with a scary quote:

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20110319/NEWS01/110319006/Liberty-Dollar-fake-currency-creator-convicted-federal-court?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

Quote
Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.”

“We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government,” Tompkins said.


Non-violent terrorists. Like wikileaks.
Logged
Good people disobey bad laws.
PreparedSecurity.com - Modern security and preparedness for the 21st century.
 [img width= height= alt=Prepared Security]http://www.prepareddesign.com/uploads/4/4/3/6/4436847/1636340_orig.png[/img]

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 01:11:36 PM »

It doesn't even make sense.  How in the hell could they be counterfeit?  They look nothing like US dollars!

That just means they're badly-done counterfeiting.  They used dollar signs and certainly implied that they were valid U.S. currency.  If I'm looking to use an alternate currency, I sure as Hell don't want a dollar sign on it.  Seems to miss the point.

As an alternative currency product, Liberty Dollars suck ass.  It's like they set out to make an alternative but didn't want to make it TOO much better than FRNs.  The model seemed to appeal to the activist nature of people to want to train others to accept alternate currency in a manner that failed to take advantage of silver's ability to hedge against inflation.  You know, probably the MAIN biggest reason to use alternate currency in the first place?

"We're going to put dollar signs on these so you can trick naive people into thinking they're legal currency and that will get people used to the idea alternate currencies after lots of these are in regular circulation.  (And they had tips on how to deceive people without technically saying any outright lies.)  Meanwhile, as FRNs get devalued, we'll take your Liberty Dollars and swap them out for coins with an upgraded FRN value (for a nice fee! Yum!)"

So all the while, they sell them at an insane markup over spot, and part of the justification was it might someday be necessary to make a lot of money to cover legal fees.  So legal fees were supposedly built into the business model.  Of course, they asked for donations when that time came-- selective memory.

All that said, I still didn't want them to lose.  The proper "punishment" for their exploitative and deception-based racket would have been for them to ultimately fail in a free(r) market.  I would have tried to spur a campaign of enlightenment and counter-propaganda.  When someone tried to buy something from me with one, I'd offer them silver value plus a reasonable coinage rate for them, ignoring the dollar signs stamped on the coin (the bad counterfeiting).  When they complain that they paid way more than that for it, I'd say "then you're a dumbass".

I agree with you on everything here except for your first statement.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

atomiccat

  • FTL AMPlifier
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1142
  • Anarchy will Reign when pigs fly... Look a pig!
    • View Profile
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 04:36:47 PM »

So they are guilty of trading US currency for counterfeit us currency, even though the "counterfeit" currency is worth more than the face value of the "real" currency. and are other countries whom use their own version of dollars counterfeiting too?

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 05:50:57 PM »

It doesn't even make sense.  How in the hell could they be counterfeit?  They look nothing like US dollars!

That just means they're badly-done counterfeiting.  They used dollar signs and certainly implied that they were valid U.S. currency.  If I'm looking to use an alternate currency, I sure as Hell don't want a dollar sign on it.  Seems to miss the point.

As an alternative currency product, Liberty Dollars suck ass.  It's like they set out to make an alternative but didn't want to make it TOO much better than FRNs.  The model seemed to appeal to the activist nature of people to want to train others to accept alternate currency in a manner that failed to take advantage of silver's ability to hedge against inflation.  You know, probably the MAIN biggest reason to use alternate currency in the first place?

"We're going to put dollar signs on these so you can trick naive people into thinking they're legal currency and that will get people used to the idea alternate currencies after lots of these are in regular circulation.  (And they had tips on how to deceive people without technically saying any outright lies.)  Meanwhile, as FRNs get devalued, we'll take your Liberty Dollars and swap them out for coins with an upgraded FRN value (for a nice fee! Yum!)"

So all the while, they sell them at an insane markup over spot, and part of the justification was it might someday be necessary to make a lot of money to cover legal fees.  So legal fees were supposedly built into the business model.  Of course, they asked for donations when that time came-- selective memory.

All that said, I still didn't want them to lose.  The proper "punishment" for their exploitative and deception-based racket would have been for them to ultimately fail in a free(r) market.  I would have tried to spur a campaign of enlightenment and counter-propaganda.  When someone tried to buy something from me with one, I'd offer them silver value plus a reasonable coinage rate for them, ignoring the dollar signs stamped on the coin (the bad counterfeiting).  When they complain that they paid way more than that for it, I'd say "then you're a dumbass".


By your logic the government has to go after Parker Brothers too.
Of course a product is more expensive then the raw materials that went into it.
Something is worth exactly what people are willing to pay for it. Besides if the creators die as martyrs in prison, the original coins will probably be collectores items someday and have been a great investment to those who chose to hang on to them.
The way I see it, the private currencies are a little like sex toys in a marriage. The government could have chosen to work with the liberty dollar and accepted them and reaped the economic benefits... or it could do what it did- fight against a good thing and end up with a bored angry spouse who refuses to do anything.
I want a divorce.

velojym

  • Mostly Harmless
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1981
  • Existence is Theft!!! *drool*
    • View Profile
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 08:56:02 PM »

Quote
“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said.

Kinda like the pot calling the silverware black.
Logged
We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.
-Ayn Rand

Alex Libman

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
    • libman.org
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 12:08:17 AM »

Bastards...

This makes me wanna move back into a trailer in the woods and buy everything with Bitcoins.

:x :x :x
Logged

anarchir

  • Extraordinaire
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5103
  • No victim, no crime.
    • View Profile
    • Prepared Security
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 12:53:34 AM »

Bastards...

This makes me wanna move back into a trailer in the woods and buy everything with Bitcoins.

:x :x :x


You moved out of your trailer in the woods?
Logged
Good people disobey bad laws.
PreparedSecurity.com - Modern security and preparedness for the 21st century.
 [img width= height= alt=Prepared Security]http://www.prepareddesign.com/uploads/4/4/3/6/4436847/1636340_orig.png[/img]

Alex Libman

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
    • libman.org
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2011, 09:44:09 AM »

Yes, in September.  Still living underground, but elsewhere.  Except I paid the NJ DMV.  Still not driving, but just decided to pick my battles.  Major paradigm shift.  I'm a lone wolf tax resister / libertarian badass now.  Free Staters can kiss my ass.  No one deserves my trust.
Logged

anarchir

  • Extraordinaire
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5103
  • No victim, no crime.
    • View Profile
    • Prepared Security
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 05:09:02 PM »

Yes, in September.  Still living underground, but elsewhere.  Except I paid the NJ DMV.  Still not driving, but just decided to pick my battles.  Major paradigm shift.  I'm a lone wolf tax resister / libertarian badass now.  Free Staters can kiss my ass.  No one deserves my trust.


Except me.
Logged
Good people disobey bad laws.
PreparedSecurity.com - Modern security and preparedness for the 21st century.
 [img width= height= alt=Prepared Security]http://www.prepareddesign.com/uploads/4/4/3/6/4436847/1636340_orig.png[/img]

Alex Libman

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
    • libman.org
Re: Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2011, 01:58:53 AM »

Respect - possibly.

Trust - no.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Liberty Dollar Found GUILTY

// ]]>

Page created in 0.104 seconds with 33 queries.