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Author Topic: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole  (Read 44105 times)

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AntonLee

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2010, 07:33:35 PM »

YOU STOLD" HIS PROPERTAH!!!!!!  HE THOUGHT IT OUT FIRST IT'S HIS!!!!
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Terror Australis

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2010, 09:13:50 PM »

Golly, I hope Scott doesn't notice I'm using one of his drawings for my icon...

You lying commie scum......

 :D

Now I wonder if the person who invented the right click will get sued for copy and paste....
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hellbilly

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2010, 09:48:37 PM »

I'm going to sue the Shire & FSP (or whoever the major players in this drama are.. can't keep up these days) for falsely representing themselves as peaceful, intelligent, non aggressive peoples who are capable of handling disagreements in a mature fashion.
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YixilTesiphon

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2010, 09:59:38 PM »

Also, Ian was sanctimonious as shit in those emails between he and Neil. I think he's probably in the right, but that doesn't make it smart or reasonable to act like there's no validity at all to the other person's point of view. "I forgive you for (x)"? Come on, even if the other person is being an asshole that's no way to treat somebody who could be a useful ally.
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John Shaw

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2010, 10:00:54 PM »

Also, Ian was sanctimonious as shit in those emails between he and Neil. I think he's probably in the right, but that doesn't make it smart or reasonable to act like there's no validity at all to the other person's point of view. "I forgive you for (x)"? Come on, even if the other person is being an asshole that's no way to treat somebody who could be a useful ally.

Ian putting that shit on the show is pretty fucking despicable, too.

"He's a foil for the purposes of promoting this radio show." - Ian
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Ecolitan

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2010, 10:06:50 PM »

If intellectual property is real property like my great great grandfather's hammer, then should there be no expiration on copyright?  You can't use my great great grandfather's hammer so do Plato's ancestors own his writing?  I can abandon my grandfather's hammer and then it would be anyone's who happened across it.  What does it take to call words abandoned?  

I don't believe in it.  I don't know who first used the letter "W" but if his progeny come wanting money I'm going to tell them where to stick it.

Quote
Now watch the market collapse when there's no money in writing.

Ridiculous, copyright is brand new like marijuana prohibition in world history, people have been writing all along and some even made a living at it.  Even today with 'money in writing' lots of people never sell a thing but never stop writing, anything that an author would not write for free if need be isn't worth reading anyway.

Looks like a derivative work to me anyway.  A legal battle would put more eyes on both documents, sounds like a great idea to me.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 10:24:17 PM by Ecolitan »
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Terror Australis

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2010, 10:21:04 PM »

If intellectual property is real property like my great great grandfather's hammer, then should there be no expiration on copyright?  You can't use my great great grandfather's hammer so do Plato's ancestors own his writing?  I can abandon my grandfather's hammer and then it would be anyone's who happened across it.  What does it take to call words abandoned?  

I don't believe in it.  I don't know who first used the letter "W" but if his progeny come wanting money I'm going to tell them where to stick it.

The real problem is copyright lasts for so long.The reasonable thing would be if the person is dead or still alive.There is also the issue of what is fair use.The shire document is an educational document in my opinion.It is not of commercial nature.

Intellectual property is a government granted monopoly on thoughts.

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Scott Bieser

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2010, 10:23:34 PM »

Quote
Golly, I hope Scott doesn't notice I'm using one of his drawings for my icon...

Really? I thought that was a self-portrait.

<rimshot>

Just kidding  :lol:

Even though Neil is a close friend and frequent creative partner, I'm not Neil and have somewhat different views about re-use of my work.
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Alex Libman

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2010, 10:41:19 PM »

Kneejerkreactionemail accomplished -

Code: [Select]
[To:  lneil@netzero.com; lneil@lneilsmith.org]
[Subject:  Very Disappointed With Your Irrational Behavior]

L. Neil Smith,

I am shocked and disappointed to learn that a great libertarian thinker
such as yourself would stoop so low as to threaten government force
against your intellectual inheritors, even though they have openly
acknowledged your influence on the wording of their document at every
step.  Quite frankly, the obvious similarity of the Shire Society
Declaration to your prior writings was a tribute that I believe you no
longer deserve.  You are becoming an embarrassing little footnote in the
intellectual history of our movement, while people like Ian Freeman are
the engine pulling it forward.  Whatever intellectual credit you deserve
is a consequence of chronology rather than substance.

Best regards,
Alex Libman


Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go BitTorrent some AMP-only versions of the FTL podcast.  And a full mirror snapshot FTL and FK Web-sites / forums.  And some naughty pictures of Ian's mother...  ;)
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Terror Australis

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2010, 10:50:23 PM »

Quote
Golly, I hope Scott doesn't notice I'm using one of his drawings for my icon...

Really? I thought that was a self-portrait.

<rimshot>

Just kidding  :lol:

Even though Neil is a close friend and frequent creative partner, I'm not Neil and have somewhat different views about re-use of my work.

Why do artists insist on suing their most ardent supporters and their target audience?It has been proven beyond doubt that those who pirate are the biggest spenders and supporters of artists.This move is not smart it is shortsighted.
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anarchir

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2010, 10:55:01 PM »

Kneejerkreactionemail accomplished -

Code: [Select]
[To:  lneil@netzero.com; lneil@lneilsmith.org]
[Subject:  Very Disappointed With Your Irrational Behavior]

L. Neil Smith,

I am shocked and disappointed to learn that a great libertarian thinker
such as yourself would stoop so low as to threaten government force
against your intellectual inheritors, even though they have openly
acknowledged your influence on the wording of their document at every
step.  Quite frankly, the obvious similarity of the Shire Society
Declaration to your prior writings was a tribute that I believe you no
longer deserve.  You are becoming an embarrassing little footnote in the
intellectual history of our movement, while people like Ian Freeman are
the engine pulling it forward.  Whatever intellectual credit you deserve
is a consequence of chronology rather than substance.

Best regards,
Alex Libman


Awesome.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2010, 11:10:25 PM »

Also, Ian was sanctimonious as shit in those emails between he and Neil. I think he's probably in the right, but that doesn't make it smart or reasonable to act like there's no validity at all to the other person's point of view. "I forgive you for (x)"? Come on, even if the other person is being an asshole that's no way to treat somebody who could be a useful ally.

He was, and I'm glad he was taken to task over that tonight on the show.  Both behave like assholes, but most of us have from time to time.  The thing to recognize is where they were this afternoon was a bad place to be, and both need to reflect on what's passed, and back away from the sanctimony.


...and it's worth noting again, that though I and many of you agree that "intellectual property" isn't property, not even all "principled" libertarians agree.  The biggest shocker may have been that Neil doesn't.  He responded, seemingly, like an objectivist, not a libertarian, but the way to a libertarian world is to try living like it's a libertarian world, and well, we suck at it.

I believe it's moral, and practical, but we're gonna need to take Zeno to heart, and each of us is going to have to build a better man to fit in the society of better men, or we will fail.  This means acting like the guys were smart enough to encourage Ian to act like (and again, I know I suck as bad as anyone.)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 11:16:48 PM by What's the frequency, Kenneth? »
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Andy

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2010, 12:46:06 AM »

Also, Ian was sanctimonious as shit in those emails between he and Neil. I think he's probably in the right, but that doesn't make it smart or reasonable to act like there's no validity at all to the other person's point of view. "I forgive you for (x)"? Come on, even if the other person is being an asshole that's no way to treat somebody who could be a useful ally.

Ian putting that shit on the show is pretty fucking despicable, too.

"He's a foil for the purposes of promoting this radio show." - Ian

Utterly predictable though, I'm listening to him do his little pompous voice for Smith now.

I doubt FTL will get much out of this though, I'm certainly not gonna start listening more generally again.

Andy

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2010, 01:09:03 AM »

Just hearing Stephen Kinsella tell us that "the original basis of libertarianism is to find a way for us to live in peace and harmony, and make rules for scarce resources" (or something like that) apparently the evil IP heresy stems from a crankish focus on owning our labour - so basically any kind of justice based idea is out.

 

yamnuska

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Re: L. Neil Smith turns out to be a statist asshole
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2010, 02:03:47 AM »

I think both sides need to chill out but I also get tired of Ian always looking for an excuse to whore the show up, IP is bullshit but is it really worth burning a bridge? I think not.
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