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Author Topic: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.  (Read 3969 times)

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Vinnie

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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 03:05:20 PM »

http://www.nationalreview.com/nroriginals/print/?q=MDllNmVmNGU1NDVjY2IzODBlMjYzNDljZTMzNzFlZjc=

It takes about 5 minutes to read. You will like it.

It's an awesome classic.  Read it in high school.
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anarchir

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 03:21:12 PM »

Yes, me too. Excellent.
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velojym

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 05:39:18 PM »

x3

I wonder whether it'd be even approved nowadays.
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AOD_Horseman

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2010, 02:38:16 AM »

As soon as I saw the thread title, I instantly thought "This guy just read Harrison Bergeron." I love when I'm pretend-psychic.
I bring up the story often in cases of censorship, forced "equality" where some people are more equal than others, etc. I've loved it since I first read it in ninth grade.
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dalebert

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2010, 10:44:28 AM »

I haven't watched it yet so I don't know if it's good.

, the film inspired by the short story.

Quote
2081 is a 2009 science fiction short film, which premiered at the Seattle International Film Festival on May 29, 2009. It is directed and written by Chandler Tuttle. It is based on the short story "Harrison Bergeron" by author Kurt Vonnegut and stars James Cosmo, Julie Hagerty, and Armie Hammer with narration by Academy Award nominee Patricia Clarkson and an original score by Lee Brooks performed by the Kronos Quartet and Czech Philharmonic Chamber Orchestra.

YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvqsv1pPSbg
BitTorrent:
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/2341420/6181687/

BobRobertson

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2010, 02:03:17 PM »

It's been done before,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113264/

Looking forward to 2081, too.

I'd never read the story before just now, linked from this thread. The movie is ruined, now that I know how it will end.
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John Shaw

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2010, 03:48:54 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/2081-based-Vonneguts-22Harrison-Bergeron-22/dp/B002Y2BDEE

Here's a link for people who actually pay for the value they want to receive.
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dalebert

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2010, 04:34:52 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/2081-based-Vonneguts-22Harrison-Bergeron-22/dp/B002Y2BDEE

Here's a link for people who actually pay for the value they want to receive.

FWIW, the YouTube link I provided is a rental that requires payment.  I provided an option to pay.

Did your parents frequently use guilt-trips as a persuasion tactic?

John Shaw

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2010, 04:49:46 PM »

FWIW, the YouTube link I provided is a rental that requires payment.  I provided an option to pay.

Oh my bad, man. I didn't realize there was a link on the vid.

Did your parents frequently use guilt-trips as a persuasion tactic?

No. They beat me, which I why I don't communicate with them anymore.

None of which invalidates what I was saying.

To start with, I wouldn't call it a guilt trip. I was making a moral argument. The reason I am making a moral argument is because no other method has any possibility of having an effect. If people want to make copies of stuff and share it, there's nothing a moral person can do about it because I.P. law is immoral etc etc. 

The only option is to make it VERY clear that people who "Pirate" or whatever are deriving value from the product of someone else's labor without exchanging something in return.

That ain't a guilt trip, and I stand by it. It is social pressure, it is a moral argument, and it could certainly make a person who already feels guilty feel more guilty I guess.

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John Shaw

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2010, 04:58:15 PM »

Also, sorry if that post came off crabbier than I intended. I was certainly crabby, but not like, enraged or something.
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dalebert

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2010, 06:24:03 PM »

The only option is to make it VERY clear that people who "Pirate" or whatever are deriving value from the product of someone else's labor without exchanging something in return.

Is watching broadcast TV immoral?  Is sitting in the shade of a tall building (off the property) to escape the heat immoral?  Is nibbling on the core of an apple that someone bought, ate, and discarded immoral?  Is eating a free sample at the grocery store immoral?  Are the homeless people at the shelter I volunteer for (do free work for) immoral?  And here's one that ought to be considered for further discussion-- Is letting impoverished people pick up discarded bottles and cans, cleaning your property for free, immoral?  (cans you would have just thrown away)

Deriving value from someone's labor without exchanging something happens constantly.  Burden of proof, man.  If you want to make a moral argument, you need more than that.

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2010, 06:25:35 PM »

The only option is to make it VERY clear that people who "Pirate" or whatever are deriving value from the product of someone else's labor without exchanging something in return.

Is watching broadcast TV immoral?  Is sitting in the shade of a tall building (off the property) to escape the heat immoral?  Is nibbling on the core of an apple that someone bought, ate, and discarded immoral?  Is eating a free sample at the grocery store immoral?  Are the homeless people at the shelter I volunteer for (do free work for) immoral?  And here's one that ought to be considered for further discussion-- Is letting impoverished people pick up discarded bottles and cans, cleaning your property for free, immoral?  (cans you would have just thrown away)

Deriving value from someone's labor without exchanging something happens constantly.  Burden of proof, man.  If you want to make a moral argument, you need more than that.



Those examples are terrible comparisons!
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John Shaw

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2010, 06:36:35 PM »

Is watching broadcast TV immoral?

The terms of television shows are that you watch the commercials.

Is sitting in the shade of a tall building (off the property) to escape the heat immoral?

No.

Is nibbling on the core of an apple that someone bought, ate, and discarded immoral?

No. It has been discarded.

Is eating a free sample at the grocery store immoral?

It's a *FREE SAMPLE*

Are the homeless people at the shelter I volunteer for (do free work for) immoral?

I have no idea.

And here's one that ought to be considered for further discussion-- Is letting impoverished people pick up discarded bottles and cans, cleaning your property for free, immoral?  (cans you would have just thrown away)

Is making a copy of a movie finding a discarded movie? NO.

Nothing you have cited has anything AT ALL to do with respecting the terms of content creators. Copying a movie that is otherwise for sale, is deriving the value the seller places on the content without paying the creator what they expect to be paid.

If you do not want to pay what the content creator is asking, then don't. But don't fucking sit there and pretend that going ahead and using that product without paying the sellers price is somehow noble. That's a load of shit, man.

If an album is worth the 40 minutes it lasts to listen to, or a movie is worth the 90 minutes it tales to watch, then it's worth 40 or 90 minutes you spent of your time, which has a non-zero value.

I hate this fucking topic because it always ends with the other person skating around the issue. People who are otherwise awesome and clear headed TIME AND TIME AGAIN blow this off because of their own guilty consciences.

You download shit, and gain value from it, and you don't pay the price that the content creator is asking for it. That's not very cool. Period.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 06:38:22 PM by John Shaw »
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Just read an awesome short story in my english class today.
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2010, 06:40:38 PM »

Is watching broadcast TV immoral?

The terms of television shows are that you watch the commercials.

Hmm.  I don't remember signing that contract.  I don't feel obligated to, and usually don't.  I deliberately skip them using my DVR.  I must be acting immorally.   :roll:
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