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blackie

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #135 on: March 29, 2011, 11:54:48 AM »

The media treats Jewish settlers the same way they treated David Koresh.


Ok, I'm somewhat ignorant on this subject, but why are they called settlers, and who's land are they settling on?

Settlers are Israeli Jews that are living on land given to Jews by G-d.

[youtube]ZGrAj5tf3xs[/youtube]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement
Quote
An Israeli settlement is an Israeli civilian community on land that was captured by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War and is considered occupied territory.[1] Such settlements currently exist in the West Bank. Israeli neighborhoods in East Jerusalem and communities in the Golan Heights, areas which have been annexed by Israel, are considered settlements by the international community, which refused to recognize Israel's annexations of these territories.[2] Settlements also existed in the Sinai and Gaza Strip before Israel evacuated them.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 12:46:42 PM by blackie »
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blackie

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #136 on: March 29, 2011, 12:00:23 PM »

Because the world doesn't care when Jews are murdered.

I've never seen so many governments take notice and issue statements over the murder of a few people.

What kind of response do you think there should have been?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_killings

Quote
Supranational

     United Nations: Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon's office published a statement saying, "The Secretary-General condemns last night's shocking murder of an Israeli family of five, including three children, in a West Bank settlement. He calls for the perpetrators to be brought to justice, and for all to act with restraint."[60]
    Quartet on the Middle East representative Tony Blair said, "this brutal and appalling murder is shocking and deplorable," and sent his "deepest condolences and sympathy to those remaining members of the family and to the community."[61]

International

     Australia: The Australian government condemned the attack and extended its condolences to the surviving family members and friends. Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd called the attack "a despicable act of terrorism" and said, "There can be no justification for the brutal murder of three innocent children and their parents."[62]
     Canada: Canadian Foreign Minister Lawrence Cannon said in a statement, "The brutal killing of five Israelis, including children, cannot be justified." He called the atrocities "heinous acts of terror" and demanded the full cooperation of the Palestinian Authority in holding the murderers accountable.[63]
     Cyprus: Cypriot President Dimitris Christofias condemned the attack, calling its perpetrators "inhuman", and expressed condolences to the family and to the people of Israel.[64]
     France: Foreign Minister Alain Juppé said that "France utterly condemns the assassination of five members of an Israeli family yesterday in the settlement of Itamar, on the West Bank. Among the victims of this barbarous act were three children, including a baby", and offered his condolences to the family of the victims and the Israeli authorities. Juppé further stated that France "condemns all acts of violence in the occupied territories and calls for maximum restraint in order to prevent deterioration in the situation. The quest for peace through negotiations must prevail." The French consul-general in Jerusalem, Frédérique Desagleau, attended the funeral of the five victims. French Ambassador to Israel Christine Bigot visited the parents of Ruth Fogel to present condolences.[65][61]
     Germany: Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle condemned the "cruel and heinous" slayings, saying, "nothing can justify such attacks."[61]
     Greece: Greek Foreign Ministry spokesman Gregory Delavekouras stated that "we unequivocally codemn the murder of a five-member Israeli family – including three young children – and express our deep condolences and support to the relatives and friends. The murder of children in their sleep is an inconceivably ungodly, inhuman, and barbarous act", and called for the murderers to be brought to justice immediately. The statement also urged the peace process to continue and reiterated that the settlements were illegal, but stated that "any act of violence against civilians is condemnable, whatever its source".[66]
     Ireland: Irish Tánaiste and Minister of Foreign Affairs, Eamon Gilmore, condemned the murder of the Fogel family, calling it "an appalling act of violence" and "a senseless atrocity." Gilmore urged Israelis and Palestinians to resume direct peace talks and move toward "a just settlement, based on two States living side by side."[67]
     Italy: Speaker of the Chamber of Deputies, Gianfranco Fini, telephoned his Israeli counterpart, Reuven Rivlin, and denounced the attack as a "most terrible and tragic event." He offered condolences on behalf of the Italian people to the bereaved family and to the entire people of Israel.[68][69]
     Japan: The Japanese Foreign Ministry stated that "Japan strongly condemns the murder which occurred March 12 in Itamar, northern West Bank. Japan expresses its heartfelt sympathy for the victims and sends condolences to the bereaved relatives. Such an act cannot be justified for any reason, and any attempt to justify violence is unacceptable.[70]
     Netherlands: The Dutch Foreign Ministry expressed "outrage" at the killings, stating that "a crime like this can never be justified", called for all perpetrators to be brought to justice, and urged the Palestinian Authority to cooperate in arresting the suspects. It also stressed that it agreed with the Quartet in stressing the importance of achieving peace between Israel and it's neighbors. Foreign Minister Uri Rosenthal offered condolences to the victims' family and Israel.[71]
     Norway: Norwegian Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Støre released a statement saying, "I condemn the brutal killing of a family of six Israelis in the West Bank. This is a criminal act, and those responsible must be brought to justice as soon as possible."[72]
     Spain: The Foreign Ministry of Spain issued a statement condemning the attack "in the most energetic terms" and expressed hope that it would not lead to an escalation of violence in the region.[73]
     Turkey: Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu published a message on the ministry's website calling the attack "unacceptable." He stressed that the "act of terror, against innocent children is a crime that violates the most basic of rights, the right to life."[74]
     United Kingdom: Foreign Secretary William Hague said, "The friends and relatives of the family killed in Itamar have my deepest sympathies. This was an act of incomprehensible cruelty and brutality which I utterly condemn. We hope the perpetrator is swiftly brought to justice."[75]
     United States: White House spokesman Jay Carney said, "There is no possible justification for the killing of parents and children in their home. We call on the Palestinian Authority to unequivocally condemn this terrorist attack and for the perpetrators of this heinous crime to be held accountable."[76] Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said, "I was shocked and deeply saddened to learn of the brutal murder of an Israeli family. The United States condemns this appalling attack in the strongest possible terms. To kill three innocent children and their parents while they sleep is an inhuman crime for which there can be no justification."[77]
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blackie

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #137 on: April 06, 2011, 11:49:52 AM »

This has been pretty hot over the last few days.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html

Quote
Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes

By Richard Goldstone, Friday, April 1, 8:42 PM

We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document.

The final report by the U.N. committee of independent experts — chaired by former New York judge Mary McGowan Davis — that followed up on the recommendations of the Goldstone Report has found that “Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza” while “the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel.”

Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and “possibly crimes against humanity” by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.

The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee’s report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.

For example, the most serious attack the Goldstone Report focused on was the killing of some 29 members of the al-Simouni family in their home. The shelling of the home was apparently the consequence of an Israeli commander’s erroneous interpretation of a drone image, and an Israeli officer is under investigation for having ordered the attack. While the length of this investigation is frustrating, it appears that an appropriate process is underway, and I am confident that if the officer is found to have been negligent, Israel will respond accordingly. The purpose of these investigations, as I have always said, is to ensure accountability for improper actions, not to second-guess, with the benefit of hindsight, commanders making difficult battlefield decisions.

While I welcome Israel’s investigations into allegations, I share the concerns reflected in the McGowan Davis report that few of Israel’s inquiries have been concluded and believe that the proceedings should have been held in a public forum. Although the Israeli evidence that has emerged since publication of our report doesn’t negate the tragic loss of civilian life, I regret that our fact-finding mission did not have such evidence explaining the circumstances in which we said civilians in Gaza were targeted, because it probably would have influenced our findings about intentionality and war crimes.

Israel’s lack of cooperation with our investigation meant that we were not able to corroborate how many Gazans killed were civilians and how many were combatants. The Israeli military’s numbers have turned out to be similar to those recently furnished by Hamas (although Hamas may have reason to inflate the number of its combatants).

As I indicated from the very beginning, I would have welcomed Israel’s cooperation. The purpose of the Goldstone Report was never to prove a foregone conclusion against Israel. I insisted on changing the original mandate adopted by the Human Rights Council, which was skewed against Israel. I have always been clear that Israel, like any other sovereign nation, has the right and obligation to defend itself and its citizens against attacks from abroad and within. Something that has not been recognized often enough is the fact that our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations. I had hoped that our inquiry into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would begin a new era of evenhandedness at the U.N. Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted.

Some have charged that the process we followed did not live up to judicial standards. To be clear: Our mission was in no way a judicial or even quasi-judicial proceeding. We did not investigate criminal conduct on the part of any individual in Israel, Gaza or the West Bank. We made our recommendations based on the record before us, which unfortunately did not include any evidence provided by the Israeli government. Indeed, our main recommendation was for each party to investigate, transparently and in good faith, the incidents referred to in our report. McGowan Davis has found that Israel has done this to a significant degree; Hamas has done nothing.

Some have suggested that it was absurd to expect Hamas, an organization that has a policy to destroy the state of Israel, to investigate what we said were serious war crimes. It was my hope, even if unrealistic, that Hamas would do so, especially if Israel conducted its own investigations. At minimum I hoped that in the face of a clear finding that its members were committing serious war crimes, Hamas would curtail its attacks. Sadly, that has not been the case. Hundreds more rockets and mortar rounds have been directed at civilian targets in southern Israel. That comparatively few Israelis have been killed by the unlawful rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza in no way minimizes the criminality. The U.N. Human Rights Council should condemn these heinous acts in the strongest terms.

In the end, asking Hamas to investigate may have been a mistaken enterprise. So, too, the Human Rights Council should condemn the inexcusable and cold-blooded recent slaughter of a young Israeli couple and three of their small children in their beds.

I continue to believe in the cause of establishing and applying international law to protracted and deadly conflicts. Our report has led to numerous “lessons learned” and policy changes, including the adoption of new Israel Defense Forces procedures for protecting civilians in cases of urban warfare and limiting the use of white phosphorus in civilian areas. The Palestinian Authority established an independent inquiry into our allegations of human rights abuses — assassinations, torture and illegal detentions — perpetrated by Fatah in the West Bank, especially against members of Hamas. Most of those allegations were confirmed by this inquiry. Regrettably, there has been no effort by Hamas in Gaza to investigate the allegations of its war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.

Simply put, the laws of armed conflict apply no less to non-state actors such as Hamas than they do to national armies. Ensuring that non-state actors respect these principles, and are investigated when they fail to do so, is one of the most significant challenges facing the law of armed conflict. Only if all parties to armed conflicts are held to these standards will we be able to protect civilians who, through no choice of their own, are caught up in war.

The writer, a retired justice of the Constitutional Court of South Africa and former chief prosecutor of the U.N. International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda, chaired the U.N. fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict.


http://www.smh.com.au/world/goldstone-denies-he-will-recant-20110406-1d4k0.html
Quote

Goldstone denies he will recant


Jason Koutsoukis
April 7, 2011

BEIRUT: Justice Richard Goldstone has categorically rejected an Israeli minister's statement that he had agreed to rescind his highly critical United Nations report on Israel's conduct of the 2008-09 war in Gaza.

On Tuesday the Israeli Interior Minister, Eli Yishai, gave multiple radio interviews saying that in a telephone conversation on Monday, Justice Goldstone had agreed to work to have the report withdrawn.

After writing last week in The Washington Post that new information had come to light that made him rethink some of his conclusions, Justice Goldstone said he still stood by most of the final draft that was published in September 2009.
Advertisement: Story continues below

''There was absolutely no discussion about the Goldstone report on the call,'' he told the Associated Press.

Justice Goldstone said that, as he had written in the article , he did not now believe that Israel's armed forces had targeted Palestinians during its three-week Operation Cast Lead campaign against Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

''Further information as a result of domestic investigations could lead to further reconsideration,'' Justice Goldstone said. ''But as presently advised I have no reason to believe any part of the report needs to be reconsidered at this time.''

A Pakistani human rights lawyer, Hina Jilani, who worked with Justice Goldstone on the UN's fact-finding mission, has openly contradicted his recent comments. In an interview with the Middle East Monitor, she said that the UN report still stood, The Guardian reported.

''No process or acceptable procedure would invalidate the UN report; if it does happen, it would be seen as a suspect move,'' she said.

In relation to the Yishai controversy, Justice Goldstone confirmed the minister had invited him to visit Israel and that he had accepted, but not until July. ''I ended the conversation by expressing my love for Israel,'' Justice Goldstone said.

A spokesman for Mr Yishai, Roi Lachmanovitch, was later forced to issue a clarification, saying the minister ''didn't speak with the required clarity'' regarding the telephone conversation. Mr Yishai, whose decision to phone Justice Goldstone was made without consulting his Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has been harshly criticised in Israel.

Mr Netanyahu was reportedly furious with Mr Yishai, but did not criticise him publicly because Mr Yishai leads the religious party Shas, a member of Mr Netanyahu's coalition government.

''The invitation was made on [Mr Yishai's] own initiative, without co-ordinating with anyone,'' a government source told Israel's Maariv newspaper. ''He has only made things worse because he is making Goldstone out, in the eyes of the world, to be a collaborator with Israel.''

The publication of Justice Goldstone's Washington Post article has prompted the establishment of two separate government committees in Israel to try to completely discredit his original UN report.
 
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #138 on: April 06, 2011, 04:47:18 PM »

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blackie

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #140 on: April 06, 2011, 05:55:14 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110406/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_palestinians_poll

Partners in peace indeed.
Pretty much.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4048459,00.html
Quote
Poll: 46% in favor of 'price tag'

Ynet-Gesher survey conducted after Itamar massacre shows nearly half of Jewish public believes extreme rightists' actions against Palestinians are justified

Ynet
Published:    03.28.11, 14:19 / Israel Jewish Scene
   

Nearly half of Israel's Jewish population believes the "price tag" activities executed by extreme rightists against Palestinians are justified to a certain extent, according to a survey conducted for Ynet and the Gesher educational organization.

 
The poll was carried out by the Panels research institute following the massacre of five family members in the settlement of Itamar, among 504 respondents who constitute a national representative sample of the adult Jewish population in Israel. The sampling error stands at 4.4%.

 
West Bank
Palestinian 'price tag' victim recounts attack  / Elior Levy
Construction worker beaten by masked settlers in Shiloh suffers from bruises, deep laceration to back of head
Full story
Respondents were asked to refer to the "price tag" activities executed by extreme right-wing elements. Forty-eight percent said there was no room for such actions (33% - "totally unjustified", 15% - "somewhat unjustified"). On the other hand, some 22% said the actions were "perfectly justified", and 23% defined them as "quite justified".

 
While most seculars oppose "price tag" activities (36% in favor, 57% against), most traditional, national-religious and ultra-Orthodox Jews believe these actions are justified (55%, 70% and 71%, respectively).

 

The survey respondents were also asked whether rabbis were capable of preventing the "price tag" actions. Some 68% responded that rabbis were "quite capable" or "very capable" of preventing such actions.

 
Here too there was a significant difference between the stance of secular and traditional Jews, and that of religious and haredi Jews: About 76% of the seculars and 66% of the traditional Jews believe the rabbis have the power to prevent the "price tag" activities, while the national-religious and haredim say the rabbis are incapable of doing so. About 40% of religious Jews and 35% of haredim believe rabbis can prevent acts of violence and revenge.

 

Finally, the respondents were asked who should be held responsible for preventing "price tag" activities. The most popular answer was "the settlers' leadership" (52%), followed by the police (45%), rabbis (43%), the Israel Defense Forces (37%) and the legal system (22%).

 
'Price tag only aggravates situation'

According to Gesher Director Ilan Geal-Dor, "The pain over the terrible attack evokes bad feelings of revenge. The public feels something must be done, but the price tag solution does not improve the situation in any way. It can only make it worse.
 
      
"The survey shows that the absolute majority believes the rabbis can prevent these actions. The rabbis have a key role, not just in the hall of study, but also by directing efforts at other channels rather than the price tag.

 
"I call on the rabbis to sign a new 'rabbis' letter', urging the hot-tempered and all young people to avoid any price tag activities. Such a letter will allow the security forces to focus on securing communities rather than chasing rioters."

 

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blackie

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #141 on: April 07, 2011, 12:08:16 PM »

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/04/07/israel.gaza.violence/

Quote
Militants fire anti-tank missile at bus, wounding child, Israel says
By the CNN Wire Staff
April 7, 2011 -- Updated 1417 GMT (2217 HKT)

(CNN) -- A bus traveling in Israel near the Gaza border was hit Thursday by an anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian militants, Israeli authorities said.

The bus had one passenger at the time, a 13-year-old boy who was returning from school, said Avital Leibovitch, spokeswoman for the Israel Defense Forces.

The boy was severely wounded, and the driver was moderately wounded, Leibovitch said.

It was not immediately known if the bus was targeted, but it looked like "a direct hit," she said.

Local media reported that 14 mortar shells fell in the area Thursday.

The attack was part of "ongoing terror directed against innocent Israeli civilians" emanating from Gaza, Leibovitch said.

The IDF said that in the past Palestinian militants have fired anti-tank weapons at Israeli military targets only. It's the first known time Palestinians fired one at a civilian target, an IDF spokesman said.

After the incident, medical sources in Gaza reported that one person was killed and three others were injured in central Gaza by IDF fire. Palestinian security and medical sources also reported an airstrike on the airport in Rafah in southern Gaza. The IDF had no immediate comment on those reports.

The IDF said this week that it has seen an increase in terrorist strikes into the country, counting 128 in March, compared with 61 in February and 83 in January.
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Fred

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #142 on: April 07, 2011, 12:11:08 PM »

ok get off the shit for israel

they're not exactly innocent or anything....
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 12:15:49 PM by Fred »
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #143 on: April 07, 2011, 12:55:09 PM »

ok get off the shit for israel

they're not exactly innocent or anything....
Yeah, who cares about murdering innocent children, I mean he was just a Jew.  :shock: :?
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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #144 on: April 07, 2011, 12:55:59 PM »

just a fuckin palestinian
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blackie

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #145 on: April 07, 2011, 01:07:38 PM »

I haven't seen it reported that the injured kid is Jewish, I have only seen that he is a 16yo Israeli.

I am wondering what the range of the anti-tank missile is. From a google search, it looks like the bus was 2 miles from the Gaza boarder. I would have thought that school buses would be kept out of range of those types of weapons.

The Gaza militants have fired Kornet anti-tank missles in the past few months. They have a 5500 meter range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet

Israel responded by killing a random guy in Gaza.

Then Hamas fired a bunch of rockets/mortars.

Then Israel ..... you know the drill.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/world/middleeast/08gaza.html
Quote
Missile From Gaza Hits School Bus
By ISABEL KERSHNER
Published: April 7, 2011


JERUSALEM — A 16-year-old Israeli boy was critically wounded on Thursday when an anti-tank missile fired out of Gaza struck a school bus in southern Israel, according to police and military officials, setting off a new round of hostilities along the Israel-Gaza border.

The Israeli military responded immediately, firing artillery and tank shells into Gaza, and killing one Palestinian man, 50, according to a spokesman for the Hamas government medical services. A tank shell hit the man’s house, wounding four others and setting off a fire, the spokesman said.

In the hours after the strike on the bus, Gaza militants fired 45 rockets and mortars at southern Israel and the Israeli military said that its forces returned fire at the areas from where the rockets and mortars were launched.

This appeared to be the first time that an anti-tank missile hit a civilian target in the area. Short range rockets and mortar shells frequently fall in Israeli territory along the Israel-Gaza border, occasionally hitting houses but more often landing on open ground.

Violence along the Israel-Gaza border has ebbed and flowed in the past few weeks. The strike on the bus came after days of relative quiet.

In Gaza, the Popular Resistance Committees, a small armed group loyal to Hamas, the Islamic organization that controls the Palestinian territory, claimed responsibility for the attack.

One mortar shell hit a house in Ein Hashlosha, an Israeli village near the border, but no injuries were reported. Residents of the area had been told to take cover and enter bomb shelters.

The school bus was carrying only the driver and the youth at the time that it was hit at a junction near Saad, an Israeli communal farm near the border. The driver was lightly wounded. More than 30 other children who were on the bus had been dropped off at their homes shortly before the attack.

The bus was badly damaged and its windows were blown out. Roads in the area were closed.

Mr. Barak, the defense minister, instructed the Israeli Army “to quickly take all necessary measures and respond to the terrorist attack,” according to a statement from his office. He added that Israel holds Hamas responsible for all such attacks emanating from Gaza.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 01:14:40 PM by blackie »
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Fred

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #146 on: April 07, 2011, 01:17:34 PM »

peace is possible if they'd both drop the macho bs
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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #147 on: April 07, 2011, 02:41:38 PM »

peace is possible if they'd both drop the macho bs

What does Gaza not have? Seriously, they're basically an independent nation except for the part about being officially recognized.
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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #148 on: April 07, 2011, 02:42:30 PM »

you kidding?
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: It's time for another Jew thread
« Reply #149 on: April 07, 2011, 02:57:28 PM »

you kidding?

Not in the least. They have their own government, Hamas. They can continue to use the currency they already have. Their boarder with Israel, and Egypt is well established. That's basically nationhood right there.

The one legitimate counter I could come up with is that Israel has a blockade of the air, and waters of Gaza, but for the sake of this argument, lets say that Israel ended both those blockades. At that point, how is Gaza (we are ignoring the West Bank for now) not an independent nation, except for international recognition?
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