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Author Topic: Israeli settlers are terrorists?  (Read 50445 times)

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avshae

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2009, 04:52:41 PM »

Look, you spray disconnected fragments of information and half-truths, making a splendid mess of things in hope that when the dust clears someone will be convinced that Arabs have more claim to Israel than Israelis. But you fool nobody. Lets restore some order shall we?

Semites is a name for all sons of Shem, among which are the Hebrew people, whose ancestors are the Jews, and various other descendants who are considered ancestors of the Arabs (that part you got right). So both Arabs and Jews are Semites. To claim that a Jew from the US or Poland or Morocco or Yemen or wherever is not a Semite is just like claiming that an Arab living in Morocco or Yemen or the US is not a Semite. The days of the Bible were a long time ago, and both Jews and Arabs were genetically mixed with other peoples to some degree.

However, Jews maintained their identity and cultural and religious heritage, while living among other nations, throughout thousands of years. Despite your attempts, there is not nor has there ever been any missionary activity to convert people to Judaism - on the contrary, converting to Judaism is a very long, difficult and demanding process, never encouraged by the Jewish clergy, and only the most determined ever succeed.

"Palestinians" on the other hand is just a group term for all sorts of immigrants from all over the Arab world who today live in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. They have no collective history or common roots. The only thing that unites them is that they live nearby Israel and hate it.

Trying to play the racial card in favor of the Palestinians' right to the land gets you nowhere. The Jews' cultural and religious ties to the land of Israel never ceased even thousands of years after they were exiled from it. Although there was some mixing, Jews in the diaspora generally stuck together and did not disperse among other peoples. On the other hand, what difference is there between an Syro-Palestinian Arab in Syria or Jordan, and a Palestinian in Judea Samaria or Gaza? Zilch. Just where the border passes.

It is true that a Jew who lived many generations in the diaspora is likely to be mixed to the point where he or she can't claim to be a pure-blood descendant of an Israelite who lived in Israel in Biblical times, so what? Because Jewish identity was preserved so well, it is to a much greater degree that a "Palestinian" cannot claim he is a pure-blooded ancestor of a Canaanite or any other son of Shem. No amount of pseudo-logical tap-dancing will make it so.

So you can be in favor of a new Palestinian state if you want, to live side by side with Israel, the only Jewish state, and the other 3 Palestinian states that already exist (Jordan, Syria, Lebanon). But trying to deny the claim of the Jewish people to the land of Israel with claims such as yours is simply worthless.

Moving on, Antisemitism is a term used to describe prejudice against or hostility towards Jews, even though Arabs are Semites too. The term mainly originated when Jews were persecuted in the diaspora. If you don't approve of the definition, go write your own dictionary and see if anyone buys it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism
Quote
Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism; also known as Judeophobia) is a term used to describe prejudice against or hostility towards Jews, often rooted in hatred of their religious/cultural/ethnic background.
While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, it has been used exclusively to refer to hostility toward Jews since its initial usage.

And even if you do not accept the standard definition of the word, it still makes no difference at all regarding the right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel.
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libertylover

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2009, 05:08:31 PM »

Uh, the term anti-semitic was coined to describe the maltreatment of Jews by others. Going from the roots of it, Zionism is by definition philosemitic (i.e. PRO JEW) and not antisemitic.

Now if you just come out and say you hate Jews, I'd have a lot more respect for you.

Semite is a race of which Arabs and Palestinians belong as well as many Jews.  However, Judaism is a religion.  A person can be anti-semitic if they are racist against Arabs and Palestinians who are both Christians and Muslim.  Just because the term has been twisted to encompass a religious group to the exclusion of other Semites doesn't make the excluded people any less Semitic.  Zionism is antisemitic in that they are prejudice against Semitic people.  It isn't even pro-Jew because the war crimes and apartheid dictates of Israel have made the world a less safe place for Jewish people as a whole.  Just as the invasion of Iraq and the threatening stances against Iran have made Americans targets.  It is called blowback.  

What I absolutely hate is that Americans are also targets of this well deserved anger toward Israel.  Why, because so many of our tax dollars are wasted there to prop Israel up.  I would be angry if American tax dollars were sent to South Africa or to Nazi Germany because they oppressed races within their area of control.  So no I am not a racist nor do I hate Jews.  I do however hate how the philosophy of Zionism which has been used to steal land and oppress Semitic people.  BTW I don't care if you respect me or not.  You obviously don't have any respect for human rights.  
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blackie

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2009, 05:11:52 PM »

And even if you do not accept the standard definition of the word, it still makes no difference at all regarding the right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel.
The "Jewish people" do not have a right to the land of Israel. That is just silly.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2009, 05:12:04 PM »

No, anti-Semitism is specifically hatred of Jews, who are Semitic. But since genetic evidence doesn't mean fuck-all to you, why should I even bother pointing that out?
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libertylover

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2009, 09:20:50 PM »

Notice to the people who don't want threads like this one.  Don't read it, don't click on it, it isn't like the thread wasn't clear enough in the title that you didn't have a clue what it would be like.
No, anti-Semitism is specifically hatred of Jews, who are Semitic. But since genetic evidence doesn't mean fuck-all to you, why should I even bother pointing that out?

No Israeli's who want to play the race card have warped the meaning of Antisemitism to only mean Jews.  They also throw the term around on anyone that has issues with Israel.  Criticize Israel for invading Lebanon and blowing up Lebanon's Airport and tourist areas.  Which had more to do with economic terrorism than anything else. (2006 for those who will claim this is ancient history.)  Oh, you must be antisemitic.  Criticize the way Israel handles any policy even if it is the systematic uprooting and out right theft of Palestinian farmers olive groves.  Oh, you must be antisemitic.   Demolitions of Palestinian homes and the creation of Jews only roads through Palestinian territories sectioned off by walls that would put the Warsaw Ghetto to shame, don't dare criticize.  Cause if you do you must be antisemitic.   Feel that all foreign aid should be stopped to all countries.  Because Israel is dependent on that subsidy you must be antisemitic.  I suppose they want people to support only sending foreign add to Israel or else you are antisemitic.   But the truth is still the truth and Palestinians and Arabs are Semitic people and they are entitled to human rights.

 
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2009, 09:32:00 PM »

No, Anti-Semitism has always meant anti-Jew since the word was coined in the 1800s.

Personally I don't give a fuck about Israel or Palestine. But eh.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2009, 09:46:07 PM »

also, is there a reason why the Palestinians can't settle in Jordan, especially since that country was explicitly created for the Arabs of Palestine to settle in?

and why the Gaza Strip can't simply be given back to Egypt?
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blackie

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2009, 09:55:46 PM »

also, is there a reason why the Palestinians can't settle in Jordan
Because they don't want to?

Is there a reason why Jews and Palestinians can't live together?
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2009, 10:00:19 PM »

also, is there a reason why the Palestinians can't settle in Jordan
Because they don't want to?

Is there a reason why Jews and Palestinians can't live together?

Clearly there seem to be.
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blackie

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2009, 10:56:33 PM »

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Andy

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2009, 06:46:38 AM »

also, is there a reason why the Palestinians can't settle in Jordan, especially since that country was explicitly created for the Arabs of Palestine to settle in?

and why the Gaza Strip can't simply be given back to Egypt?

The Jordanian government won't let them.

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2009, 07:41:59 AM »

also, is there a reason why the Palestinians can't settle in Jordan, especially since that country was explicitly created for the Arabs of Palestine to settle in?

and why the Gaza Strip can't simply be given back to Egypt?

The Jordanian government won't let them.
Neither will the Egyptian, and they don't want Gaza back anymore either.
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libertylover

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2009, 08:41:26 AM »

also, is there a reason why the Palestinians can't settle in Jordan
Because they don't want to?
Is there a reason why Jews and Palestinians can't live together?

No reason they did so before the state of Israel was formed.  Many non-immigrant Jews who lived in Palestine prior to Israel have testified to the fact that they were able to get along. 

Quote
The Nakba: Ethnic cleansing and the birth of Israel  The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Israeli historian and senior lecturer at Haifa University Ilan Pappe, explores the period of the Nakba (One World Publisher, Oxford, 2006). The premise is that the Nakba was nothing less than an act of ethnic cleansing, normally regarded by international law as a crime against humanity. To support this theory, the author outlines various definitions from different current sources, including "an ethnically mixed area being turned into a pure ethnic space." He shows how the slaughter and/or forced expulsion of the Armenians in Turkey, the Tutsis in Rwanda and the Croatians and Bosnians in former Yugoslavia is akin to what the Zionists did to the Palestinians on a massive scale in 1948 and are still doing today. Pappe also draws a connection between ethnic cleansing and colonialism as it occurred in North and South America as well as Africa and Australia.

His research is based on primary sources: newly released material (1990s) from the Israeli military archives, David Ben-Gurion’s diary where summaries of many of his meetings are recorded, the rereading of the older archival material through the prism of the ethnic cleansing paradigm and extensive use of Palestinian oral history archives.

Pappe provides a brief historical background leading up to the Nakba and a few chapters at the end of the book about the situation today for Palestinians. The following is a very sketchy timeline of events leading up to the Nakba.
http://www.oneworld-publications.com/cgi-bin/cart2/commerce.cgi?pid=340&log_pid=yes 


Ilan Pappe is an Israeli Jew and historian.  He classifies ethnic cleansing as an ancient mod of behavior of one group toward another.  The goal is to turn a mixed area into a homogeneous area.   

This book has been met by praise from several different academic leaders.

‘Ilan Pappe has written an extraordinary book of profound relevance to the past, present, and future of Israel/Palestine relations. Anyone concerned with peace and justice for these two peoples needs to read and reflect upon this brave, honest, and illuminating exposure of the crimes committed against the Palestinians in the course of establishing the state of Israel in 1948, and since.’

– Richard Falk, Professor of International Law and Practice, Princeton University

‘Ilan Pappe is out to fight against Zionism, whose power of deletion has driven a whole nation not only out of its homeland but out of historic memory as well. A detailed, documented record of the true history of that crime, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine puts an end to the Palestinian "Nakbah" and the Israeli "War of Independence" by so compellingly shifting both paradigms.’

–  Anton Shammas, Professor of Modern Middle Eastern Literature, University of Michigan

‘Ilan Pappe is Israel’s bravest, most principled, most incisive historian.’

– John Pilger
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nefarious plot

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2009, 04:59:10 AM »

Regardless of what the Israeli propaganda minster here says. They are certainly terrorists. Those videos are sure as hell not fake. There are tons of them. They simply treat Palestinians worse then animals. Its really no small wonder why there are so many that want Americans dead. The INTERNET can give Americans a detailed and non bias look into this conflict. IN years past the last thing reporting on Israel has been is objective. Keep looking at the video. The film is the best truth. Don't even read what might be written with it. Pictures tell the story. Its stinks to high hell and costs American lives, security and some well over 30 billion a year.
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fatcat

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Re: Israeli settlers are terrorists?
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2009, 02:09:00 PM »

Notice to the people who don't want threads like this one.  Don't read it, don't click on it, it isn't like the thread wasn't clear enough in the title that you didn't have a clue what it would be like.

Word.
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