Is Ian advocating fraud?

[Euler]

I just listened to a youtube of freetalklive.  The caller from Illinois told Mark and Ian that when giving blood to the Red Cross. he lies about whether he has had sexual contact with a man since 1980   Ian scoffed at the idea of the question even being asked.  Isn't the Red Cross a private organization?  Can't they set whatever rules they want for whose blood they will take?  Isn't it fraud to lie to them?  It would seem that maybe they should review the policy but that's not the point.

[fatcat]

Nowadays "private organization" is an extremely loose.

No doubt Red Cross are some how affiliated with the government, and probably even get some sort of legal benefits, which you could try to justify breaking Red Cross contract.

Of course, Red Cross would be justified in enforcing breakage of their contract, but I think its a totally bullshit rule to refuse blood from sexually active gay men, no matter how careful they are with sex, while a man who has unprotected sex with 10 different women a night and still be eligible, so I really can't muster too much care about someone breaking a really stupid rule in order to give blood.

[youtube=425,350]kFNs2mOkKzc[/youtube]

[BonerJoe]

It's an FDA rule, not the Red Cross'.

[blackie]

I stopped donating blood when I found out I could sell plasma twice a week instead.

[Dylboz]

Yay plasma donation!

[blackie]

Yay plasma donation!

I only did it when I was a college student, and in the army. But I don't donate blood anymore because I think they should offer money for the blood, not cookies and juice. The ladies taking the blood out of me are getting paid, why not me too?

[jessepr]

The problem with plasma donation is that if you do it enough, you will get buttholes where they stick you.

But, it makes it easier to get drunk afterwords.

[Andy]

Yay plasma donation!

I only did it when I was a college student, and in the army. But I don't donate blood anymore because I think they should offer money for the blood, not cookies and juice. The ladies taking the blood out of me are getting paid, why not me too?

Probably, but they would have to give you cookies & juice too, no?

[Euler]

It's an FDA rule, not the Red Cross'.

I didn't know that.  It certainly changes things.  However, Ian didn't know that and based his support of fraud on the given information.

What about the potential recipient of said blood?  If they had moral or scientific objections to being given the blood, shouldn't have know what blood they are being  given.  I think this whole issue demonstrates that government regulation can't protect you.  Let the recipient beware.  Store your own blood.

[Rillion]

I don't consider it fraud to lie to the Red Cross because you're not making any money off the transaction-- it's a donation, after all.   It's ultimately their responsibility to check that the blood they collect is not contaminated, although I don't know why you wouldn't just be honest and tell them up front that you object to the question, and why. 

Either way, according to the OP Ian didn't actively support lying to the Red Cross; he just agreed that they shouldn't ask the question to begin with.  That could not be considered to be advocating fraud regardless. 

I've donated to the Red Cross a few times after deciding that getting blood to people is more important than demanding they be sensible about disease transmission, but had to stop as every single time I have felt nauseated and nearly passed out, and had to get extra attention from the nurses.  Bad circulation, I guess.  I have no problem with receiving injections or getting tattoos, but donating blood is very bad news for me. 

[sillyperson]

Is it fraud if you are about to have sex with someone you've been dating a few weeks, and they ask you if you have any STDs, and you say "no" even though you know you have AIDS?

I say yes, and it's not just fraud, it's physical endangerment just as if you started shooting bullets in their general vicinity.

[Euler]

I don't consider it fraud to lie to the Red Cross because you're not making any money off the transaction-- it's a donation, after all.   It's ultimately their responsibility to check that the blood they collect is not contaminated, although I don't know why you wouldn't just be honest and tell them up front that you object to the question, and why. 

Either way, according to the OP Ian didn't actively support lying to the Red Cross; he just agreed that they shouldn't ask the question to begin with.  That could not be considered to be advocating fraud regardless. 

I've donated to the Red Cross a few times after deciding that getting blood to people is more important than demanding they be sensible about disease transmission, but had to stop as every single time I have felt nauseated and nearly passed out, and had to get extra attention from the nurses.  Bad circulation, I guess.  I have no problem with receiving injections or getting tattoos, but donating blood is very bad news for me. 

I only listened once, but I think Ian said in effect that lying is bad but that this is one of the times that it's justified.

[Rillion]

Is it fraud if you are about to have sex with someone you've been dating a few weeks, and they ask you if you have any STDs, and you say "no" even though you know you have AIDS?

I say yes, and it's not just fraud, it's physical endangerment just as if you started shooting bullets in their general vicinity.

Yes, but that's not relevant to the question at hand.  Your position in that case is equivalent to the responsibility that the Red Cross has; not to the responsibility that someone who donates to the Red Cross has.  The Red Cross should not be giving blood to anyone if they can't be certain that the blood contains no diseases, regardless of what questions they ask of potential donors. 

[Dylboz]

I can't donate blood. Because of my medications, I'm just ineligible, but whenever I go in for surgery, I arrange in advance to do autologous blood donation. Thus, I don't risk anything by getting blood donated from strangers (who knows when the next AIDS is coming) and I don't drain the resources of the blood bank for genuine emergencies or others who need blood. I've never needed more than I could set aside in a month before surgery. Ironically, the Red Cross makes me fill out the same form, despite the fact that they can't give the blood to anyone else and it's my own blood going right back into me.

[One two three]

Yay plasma donation!

I only did it when I was a college student, and in the army. But I don't donate blood anymore because I think they should offer money for the blood, not cookies and juice. The ladies taking the blood out of me are getting paid, why not me too?

They do offer money for the blood.  Within 2 blocks of my college there was a place which bought blood for $10 and another place which bought plasma for around $20.