In recent news: the Palestinians are still fucked up

[ziggy_encaoua]

Apparently some parents in Jenin still think their kids should be doing after-school activities that don't include wearing explosive vests.

Where else are they going to get cannon foder

[libertylover]

Whatever avshae Israeli apologist.  The point is that Hitler was democratically elected can't erase that fact.  And it proves that democracy on its own is not a moral objective.  Even if it was a moral objective Palestinians are not allowed a vote in the Israeli apartheid system.  A system which is being used to cut them off from free trade and slowly starving them out, acts of genocide.  So to hold Israel up as some sort of democratic moral good is just about as worthless as saying the Nazis were fair to Jews in Germany because they came to power in democratic elections.  What they did after that democratic election and the legitimacy or illegitimacy of subsequent votes or lack there of is irrelevant and only serves to obscure the point.  The point being democracy isn't a moral objective it just happens to be what the mob wants at any given point in time.

Also irrelevant the factoid that if Israel wanted to cut off Gaza and the West Bank they could starve out the population in weeks.  An overt act like that might actually wake up people to the abuses which the Gaza and West Bank are being subjected to on a daily basis by the Israel.  My point is that they are doing it slowly, a 5% reduction in population just proves that they are being killed off albeit at only a rate of 5% hence the term slowly.  And you said it yourself that the rate was 5%.  I also noticed you didn't deny that a UN food warehouse was blown up by Israeli forces or that UN workers were killed by Israeli forces.  You just attacked the source of the information but not the lack of truthfulness of the allegations.  I suppose you will deny that Israeli forces are plowing down thousand year old date farms and demolishing homes and businesses in what are suppose to be sovereign Palestinian territories.   An area that you claim is under Palestinian rule.  I find it very doubtful Palestinian leaders would say come on in Israel demolish our farms and homes.  As an added bonus create several internal checkpoints with your occupying forces and keep our citizens from being able to travel freely within their own sovereign territory.  The point is it is a major lie to say that the Palestinians have any sovereign territory and can engage in free trade with other nations.  What Israel can't blockade or cutoff via land locking they accomplish through military intimidation of potential trading partners. 

Seriously the only way for their to be peace in the area is to allow the freedom of movement of people and goods into the currently occupied territories.  They need to have independent water rights and not being dependent on Israel, which has a history of cutting off water and sewage.  Even if Israel doesn't allow Palestinians entry into Israel but lets neighboring countries know they won't be bombed by Israel should they do business with the Palestinians could start to mend bridges.  Without these rights it is very doubtful there will be peace.  And the starving oppressed children of Palestine will see suicide bombing as their only recourse against an tyrannical state bent on their genocide.  The same options which were chosen over a generation ago by Warsaw Ghetto residents when faced with similar circumstances.

[fatcat]

Seriously the only way for their to be peace in the area is to allow the freedom of movement of people and goods into the currently occupied territories.  They need to have independent water rights and not being dependent on Israel, which has a history of cutting off water and sewage.  Even if Israel doesn't allow Palestinians entry into Israel but lets neighboring countries know they won't be bombed by Israel should they do business with the Palestinians could start to mend bridges.  Without these rights it is very doubtful there will be peace. 

word

[rabidfurby]

In recent news: trolls are still very well-fed.

[avshae]

Whatever avshae Israeli apologist.

How eloquent, I'm impressed.

The point is that Hitler was democratically elected can't erase that fact.

As I have already described in detail,
FALSE. FALSE. FALSE.

Palestinians are not allowed a vote in the Israeli ...

Neither are Israelis allowed to vote in the PA. You see, each citizen votes in his own authority. French people vote in France, and German people vote in Germany. And Palestinians vote in the PA, its very simple.

How can you call a 5% annual reproduction rate starving?

My point is that they are doing it slowly, a 5% reduction in population just proves that they are being killed off albeit at only a rate of 5% hence the term slowly.  And you said it yourself that the rate was 5%.

reproduction, meaning increase not reduction. +5% each year. Get it?

I also noticed you didn't deny that a UN food warehouse was blown up by Israeli forces or that UN workers were killed by Israeli forces. You just attacked the source of the information but not the lack of truthfulness of the allegations.

You made no such allegation, so I didn't deny anything. Save your last ounce of dignity and at least agree with me that a Syrian draft in the UN cannot be considered a credible source. 

I suppose you will deny that Israeli forces are plowing down thousand year old date farms

There are no "thousand year old farms" in Gaza nor in Judea-Samaria. Since all of the regions inhabitants are recent immigrants. And older Arab people were Bedouins (desert nomads).

and demolishing homes and businesses in what are suppose to be sovereign Palestinian territories.

specifically if Hamas used them as military infrastructure during a war.

Even if Israel doesn't allow Palestinians entry into Israel but lets neighboring countries know they won't be bombed by Israel should they do business with the Palestinians could start to mend bridges.

You just crack me up. Israel bombs neighboring countries for doing business with the Palestinians? What are you on?

[libertylover]

From the Historical Atlas of the Twentieth Century

Q: Was Hitler democratically elected as Chancellor of Germany in 1933?

A: Yes. Of course he was.

However, because the office of Chancellor was not filled by popular election, it might be more accurate to say that Hitler was constitutionally chosen to be the Chancellor of Germany, a democratic nation. The point is, there was nothing about Hitler's appointment as Chancellor (30 Jan. 1933) which violated the Constitution of Germany. President Hindenburg legally selected the leader of the largest party in Parliament to head up a coalition government. It has happened hundreds of times throughout history without being considered undemocratic.

Only in light of later events does it become obvious that this was the beginning of the end of democratic rule in Germany. If Hitler had suddenly died in office before the Reichtag Fire (27 Feb. 1933) gave him the excuse to crush the opposition, history would record the uninterrupted flow of democracy in Germany in 1933. Granted, the window of opportunity for Hitler to leave a legacy as a proper democrat was only open for a single month, but that could have been enough.

The myth that Hitler slipped into power by way of an illegal backroom deal which bypassed the constitution is more comforting than considering that maybe laws and democratic constitutions are not foolproof safeguards against the emergence of tyrants. If a constitutionally valid plurality want tyranny, they'll get it.

BTW Wikipedia is not accepted as a source at any reputable University I know of, so quoting them as a source is completely invalid.

[libertylover]

When I say Palestinians are not allowed to vote in Israel.   I mean Palestinians who are living in Israeli territories are not allowed to vote in Israel it is an Apartheid system.   And saying that the Palestinians can vote in their own territories, for governments which have no power to remove Israeli forces from their streets, homes and lives.  It is about as valid as saying under German occupation the French were allowed to vote for the Vichy government during WWII so therefore they must be free.  Or how about the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto were allowed to vote for their representatives so they must have been free as well.   Equally the argument that the West Bank and Gaza are free to hold their own elections and free in their own territories is ridiculous.

[youtube=425,350]v/lSp-oIOhq00[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSp-oIOhq00

http://www.ifamericansknew.org

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

And foreigners who live in America aren't allowed to vote either.  That's not apartheid.

[libertylover]

And foreigners who live in America aren't allowed to vote either.  That's not apartheid.

Not talking about foreigners either.  They are citizens of Israel!  Arab Israelis are Palestinians who live in Israel and are citizens in Israel.  They are not allowed to vote in Israels national elections.  They do not have equal rights period.  It is an Apartheid system.  If you are Arab even as a citizen of Israel you can not purchase homes or lands from a Jewish Israelis by law.  If you are an Arab citizen of Israel you have to pay on a different schedule for basic necessities like water and sewage by law.  And no Arab Israelis are not a different ethnic group from Palestinians, it is a designation given by Israel for Palestinians who are citizens of Israel.  If you asked an Arab Israeli are they Palestinian, unless you are an Israeli they will tell you yes.

Israel is engaging in systematic ethnic cleansing which is one of the planks of genocide.   And people wonder why maybe just maybe many of the oppressed don't want their fellows to play music for their oppressors and pretend they aren't being victimized. 

[youtube=425,350]v/JIudn8-jJJw[/youtube]

[ziggy_encaoua]

Until the Palestinians either fuck off & live in Jordon or get with reality & realise Israel ain't their's to dictate this shit is jst going to rumble on

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Israeli Arabs are allowed to vote in national elections.  And they do.  And there are several Israeli Arabs (what you keep referring to as Palestinians) in the Knesset (Parliament).   

[avshae]

I'll try to as brief as I can:

Palestinians who are living in Israeli territories are not allowed to vote in Israel

False.

If you are Arab even as a citizen of Israel you can not purchase homes or lands from a Jewish Israelis by law.

False.

If you are an Arab citizen of Israel you have to pay on a different schedule for basic necessities like water and sewage by law.

False.
False buffer overflow. Exiting.

[libertylover]

You can say false all you want but Arabs in Israel are discriminated against in terms of access to land and the purchase of land by Israeli Law.  It is a fact so choke on it.

Palestinian leaders are hardly alone in claiming that the land "always goes from Arabs to the Jews." Many journalists and commentators have found Israel's policies to be discriminatory. These, they variously charged, bar non-Jews from leasing, or buying, or even accessing, most or all of the land in Israel.

The original formulation of this argument would seem to be by Walter Lehn, a professor of linguistics then at the University of Minnesota, who contended in a 1974 article in the Journal of Palestine Studies that

    the [Israeli] state under colour of law effectively prevents any non-Jew from leasing or holding any rights ... to 90 percent of the land in Israel.

Lehn's argument found a willing audience, and has been widely repeated by academics writing both for professional and lay readers. For example, Zachary Lockman, then a Harvard history professor, contended in a 1988 letter to The New York Times that

    some 92 percent of Israel's land area is administered in accordance with ... [regulations which] prohibit these lands from being purchased, leased or worked by Arab citizens of Israel.

More recently, speaking on National Public Radio's All Things Considered, William Quandt of the University of Virginia charged that

    Israel was established as a state for Jews. It has of course an Arab minority who have citizenship rights, but the specific way in which land is owned in Israel is predominantly that the Jewish Agency purchases land on behalf of the Jewish people and then leases it out to its Jewish citizens.

    Arabs cannot have access to that land that's owned by the Jewish Agency. They can keep land they have privately owned before the State of Israel was created. There's a small amount of private property that can be traded and Arabs can buy that as well as Jews, but most land is held in trust for the Jewish people, so yes there is a legal basis for what we would flat out call discriminatory practices.

Rashid Khalidi, director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and president of the American Committee on Jerusalem, repeats the same argument, saying that in Jerusalem

non-Jews are barred by law from purchasing or leasing most properties (Jewish National Fund property, "state land," and land under control of the Custodian of "Absentee" Property—i.e., stolen Arab land).

Journalists picked this argument up from academics. The Washington Post's Barton Gellman reported that because

    the Zionists devised formal and informal mechanisms to prevent Arabs from acquiring Jewish land that persist today ...

[libertylover]

No not all Israeli Arabs are entitled to vote.  Again you are the one who is misleading people.

Q. Are Israeli Arabs entitled to vote?
All Arab citizens of Israel can vote in national
elections and stand for the Israeli Knesset.
However, there are over 70,000 Israeli Arabs living
within villages in Israel that remain unrecognized
by the government who therefore cannot vote in
municipal elections.
These Israeli Arabs in their unrecognised villages
have few, if any, amenities provided by the state.

http://www.caabu.org/pdf/Israeli-Arabs-final.pdf

[libertylover]

House demolitions have nothing to do with HAMAS

House Demolitions
House demolitions in the Arab sector are linked to
the state’s policy of large-scale confiscation of land
and to restrictive planning regulations.
• These regulations have led many Israeli Arabs
to build their homes without permits. These
homes are frequently demolished
• Even though violations of planning and building
regulations are also widespread in the Jewish
sector, they are rarely punished with the same
severity.
• In 2003, the Government destroyed over 35
Bedouin houses, a mosque, 13 shops and a
water container in the unrecognised villages
• There have also been cases of Israeli airplanes,
accompanied by police forces & other security
forces, spraying chemical herbicide on houses
and crops in unrecognized villages in the
Negev.

Same British source as previously stated.