Yessir, potato vodka.
Yessir, potato vodka.
Have you ever had it? I can't say I have, wondering how it tastes.
Yessir, potato vodka.Have you ever had it? I can't say I have, wondering how it tastes. |
Yessir, potato vodka.Have you ever had it? I can't say I have, wondering how it tastes.
You know, contrary to my country of origin, I just don't have the taste for good vodka. Don't remember the difference. But a lot of people swear by it. The only reason it's not more popular is traditionalism - potato vodka is a relatively recent invention.
is there anything potatoes cant do? |
is there anything potatoes cant do?
They are very nutritious and have very diverse culinary applications, but there's one major downside: they're starchy and very high on the glycemic index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index). That means they don't give you lasting energy, and eating too much of them would raise your risk of diabetes. Shouldn't be a major problem if combined with other carb sources though.
Sure, why not, but meat won't offset the glycemic issue. Beans or some leafy greens would though.
(http://www.agjab.com/images/x375ml2.jpg)Yessir, potato vodka.
Have you ever had it? I can't say I have, wondering how it tastes.
So I've been a 100% vegan for the past two weeksYou are not using any animal products?
So what does "100% vegan" mean?
I didn't know you were planning on moving to Coos County.
So what does "100% vegan" mean? |
It means that, for the past two weeks, they have been better and more moral than you. |
I have a cunning plan to eat potatoes despite blights. |
I didn't know you were planning on moving to Coos County. |
You should probably add "diet" to "100% vegan", or use "strict/pure vegetarian" or "plant based diet".
So what does "100% vegan" mean?
Zero cholesterol, no exceptions.
Veganism is a diet and lifestyle that seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose. Vegans endeavor not to use or consume animal products of any kind.
...
Vegan diets (sometimes called strict or pure vegetarian diets) are a subset of vegetarian diets.
My question is....how much room would it take to grow enough food to live sustainably? Say I have good weather most of the year, some goats for milk to make butter and cheese, some chickens for eggs and meat. How much space would it take for that plus veggies and grains, such that I never need to go shopping for food and still eat well?
My question is....how much room would it take to grow enough food to live sustainably? Say I have good weather most of the year, some goats for milk to make butter and cheese, some chickens for eggs and meat. How much space would it take for that plus veggies and grains, such that I never need to go shopping for food and still eat well?
One commonly-used estimate of the minimum amount of arable land to feed one person is 0.07 hectares. For example:
"The minimum amount of agricultural land necessary for sustainable food security, with a diversified diet similar to those of North America and Western Europe (hence including meat), is 0.5 of a hectare per person. This does not allow for any land degradation such as soil erosion, and it assumes adequate water supplies. Very few populous countries have more than an average of 0.25 of a hectare. It is realistic to suppose that the absolute minimum of arable land to support one person is a mere 0.07 of a hectare–and this assumes a largely vegetarian diet, no land degradation or water shortages, virtually no post-harvest waste, and farmers who know precisely when and how to plant, fertilize, irrigate, etc. [FAO, 1993]"
posted by sfenders at 5:20 AM on November 28, 2007
If you're interested in the maximum yield, you might look into the Biointensive method. This book, by John Jeavons, claims that less than half an acre (~ 0.2 hectares) can support a family of four, or about 0.05 hectares/person, which is lower still than the lower of sfenders' figures.
posted by harmfulray at 7:48 AM on November 28, 2007
These are from speech notes from a guy named Jason Bradford, to a Rotary group in northern California. I don't know where he got them. The presentation used to be online here, but the link is broken, so I don't know where it is now.
Each person needs --
vegan food -- 3000 sq. ft.
a few eggs/week -- 3,500 sq. ft.
one chicken/week -- 24,300 sq. ft.
one cow/year -- 67,300 sq. ft.
posted by salvia at 9:51 AM on November 28, 2007
We usually have a small garden about the size of a parking space, and another area a little smaller just for tomatoes. If we wanted to live off all we produced, I think a space of 3 dozen parking spots or so may do it.
I'd try apples trees and whatnot but I think it takes a few years for those to produce fruit.
We usually have a small garden about the size of a parking space, and another area a little smaller just for tomatoes. If we wanted to live off all we produced, I think a space of 3 dozen parking spots or so may do it.
I'd try apples trees and whatnot but I think it takes a few years for those to produce fruit.
It takes a decade for apple trees to produce quality fruit in any considerable quantity, and you need a space for each tree approximately the size of a three-car garage, if not bigger. You can't grow much of anything under them because their roots are shallow. (Plus, of course, the shade)
FOOD | MCPA | PP |
Apple (http://www.localharvest.org/blog/15945/entry/calories_per_acre_with_apples) | 23.6 | 2% |
Hemp Seed (http://www.crrh.org/) [2] (http://earthfriendlygoods.com/pages/NutritionalComposition.php) | 18.1 | 18% |
Potato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato#History) | 9.2 | 8% |
Pear (http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_meatvsfruityield.html) | 8.2 | 4% |
Almond | 8.0 | 14% |
Maize | 7.5 | 16% |
Rice | 7.4 | 8% |
Carrot (http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/hortcrop/h912w.htm) | 5.8 | 9% |
Garlic | 3.8 | 17% |
Rutabaga (http://nutrition.about.com/od/fruitsandvegetables/p/Rutabagas.htm) [PDF] (http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/hortcrop/h912.pdf) | 3.2 | 13% |
Wheat | 3.0 | 14% |
Sweet Potato (http://books.google.com/books?id=PglBAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq="calories+per+acre"&source=bl&ots=TLZ1qTs_QY&sig=BcC4sXim2duOKBM6r4NluGavQD4&hl=en&ei=7xD9SvezI5TEnges6oiRCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBwQ6AEwBDgU#v=onepage&q="calories per acre"&f=false) | 2.9 | 6% |
Soybeans | 2.8 | 53% |
Peas | 2.5 | 28% |
Brussels Sprouts | 2.2 | 32% |
Broccoli (http://fiveislandsorchard.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/why-everyone-should-stop-eating-industrial-meat/) | 2.1 | 28% |
Sweet Cherry (http://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/Montana/Publications/Press_Releases_Crops/cherryann.htm) | 1.9 | 7% |
Rye | 1.8 | 18% |
Turnip | 1.4 | 13% |
Okra | 1.3 | 29% |
Peanut | 1.3 | 18% |
Oats | 1.3 | 14% |
Beans | 1.1 | 25% |
Tomato | 1.1 | 24% |
Cabbage (http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/Gardener-Monthly-V25/Profit-In-Cabbage.html) | 1.1 | 19% |
Swiss Chard | 1.0 | 38% |
Buckwheat | 0.8 | 16% |
Spinach | 0.6 | 50% |
Blueberry (http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/MannUsda/viewDocumentInfo.do?documentID=1765) | 0.6 | 5% |
[/quote]We usually have a small garden about the size of a parking space, and another area a little smaller just for tomatoes. If we wanted to live off all we produced, I think a space of 3 dozen parking spots or so may do it.
I'd try apples trees and whatnot but I think it takes a few years for those to produce fruit.
It takes a decade for apple trees to produce quality fruit in any considerable quantity, and you need a space for each tree approximately the size of a three-car garage, if not bigger. You can't grow much of anything under them because their roots are shallow. (Plus, of course, the shade)
At 240 lbs per season, and with a mature tree needing 50.25 square feet of space, you get 4.77 pounds of food per square foot, which seems to me to be a fairly high level of space efficiency. As far as I know, they only need to be pruned occasionally, so given the cost/benefit ratio, apple trees seem to be a good investment.
We usually have a small garden about the size of a parking space, and another area a little smaller just for tomatoes. If we wanted to live off all we produced, I think a space of 3 dozen parking spots or so may do it.
I'd try apples trees and whatnot but I think it takes a few years for those to produce fruit.
It takes a decade for apple trees to produce quality fruit in any considerable quantity, and you need a space for each tree approximately the size of a three-car garage, if not bigger. You can't grow much of anything under them because their roots are shallow. (Plus, of course, the shade)
At 240 lbs per season, and with a mature tree needing 50.25 square feet of space, you get 4.77 pounds of food per square foot, which seems to me to be a fairly high level of space efficiency. As far as I know, they only need to be pruned occasionally, so given the cost/benefit ratio, apple trees seem to be a good investment.
So, that's it, then. Apples and hemp--what more do you need? :lol: |
[...] Yams because of the vitamin content, blight resistance, ease of growth, and ease of storage. [...] |
Hey, if you have hemp, you can trade for whatever else you need. |
Hey, if you have hemp, you can trade for whatever else you need.
My question is....how much room would it take to grow enough food to live sustainably? Say I have good weather most of the year, some goats for milk to make butter and cheese, some chickens for eggs and meat. How much space would it take for that plus veggies and grains, such that I never need to go shopping for food and still eat well?
Maybe check out how much land people in history were allowed to utilize for themselves, peasants and that sort of thing. They would have to give like 9/10ths to the king, or some standard measure. I'm not well versed on that stuff, but I think there was some sort of standard. There were similar tactics in early American history with indentured people, I believe. And they became very proficient at using the little allotment of land, one acre or whatever it was. Since all farming was done by hand and they were ultimately responsible for 10/10ths, their little spot would require their time and labor as well. Modern people in all their glorious flab should be able to handle 1/10th of a peasants chores. (LOL, or maybe not)
My question is....how much room would it take to grow enough food to live sustainably? Say I have good weather most of the year, some goats for milk to make butter and cheese, some chickens for eggs and meat. How much space would it take for that plus veggies and grains, such that I never need to go shopping for food and still eat well?
Maybe check out how much land people in history were allowed to utilize for themselves, peasants and that sort of thing. They would have to give like 9/10ths to the king, or some standard measure. I'm not well versed on that stuff, but I think there was some sort of standard. There were similar tactics in early American history with indentured people, I believe. And they became very proficient at using the little allotment of land, one acre or whatever it was. Since all farming was done by hand and they were ultimately responsible for 10/10ths, their little spot would require their time and labor as well. Modern people in all their glorious flab should be able to handle 1/10th of a peasants chores. (LOL, or maybe not)
I actually am well versed in peasant's relationships to respective lords, and while its fantastically complex in some ways, never was there an amount even approaching fifty percent in "in kind"(barter-direct grain payment) or in specie payment. Indeed, usually it was far less. That said, medieval lords and kings were economic regulators that would make Keynes drool, virtually everything as a seignoirial monopoly(milling, brewing, baking...etc. ), and from these protected monopolies lords would gain a good bit of their income-that and the courts. Even so, the tax burden(especially in England where I'm most familiar) before say 1300, would have been minuscule compared to that demanded by modern states-including regulatory, and "legal" taxes that most sheep ignore today.
The notion that peasants paid 9/10 to some lord is simply modernist propaganda-they had a hard life, no doubt, but they didn't need to pay for a Nimitz class aircraft carrier. We have not progressed...but in dentistry.
[...] Yams because of the vitamin content, blight resistance, ease of growth, and ease of storage. [...]
I included "sweet potatoes" in the above table, but I'm very ignorant of the differences between them and yams. It seems that yams are native to even warmer regions, which means would be even more difficult to grow in NH. You'll get 3-5 higher yield with regular potatoes; and, for vitamin content, a greenhouse growing small patches of different leaf veggies year-round can't be beat.
[...] Limiting to just three items is extremely difficult. |
And then imposing the NH grow season on top of that. |
I think you might want to look into hydroponics [...] |
I just hemp products now but it is very difficult for me to cook with as of yet I haven't figured out how to make a go of the hemp flour. |
Another thing I would have an underground home style home or tapped earth home to minimize energy costs. |
The number of pigs required to power anything with methane would be ridiculous, and the science behind stripping methane requires some extremely complex engineering. It is so many orders of magnitude in the wrong direction from the simplicity of wind, solar, or hydro, that you should simply agree and abandon the thought as "oh, that hard, huh?" without a lot of bantering around. Way hard.The science behind it isn't what's hard. It's the execution.
If you wanted a combustible fuel source, to make flame for cooking or whatnot, you've got wood or you could distill alcohol from a crop that has a natural sugar content, or you could horde coal before the shit hits the fan.. Beyond that, occasionally you can find a farm that has a natural gas tap from its own dedicated well. Thats not unheard of. If I had one thing to hope for out of anything on a farm, it would be a gas well.
The number of pigs required to power anything with methane would be ridiculous, and the science behind stripping methane requires some extremely complex engineering. It is so many orders of magnitude in the wrong direction from the simplicity of wind, solar, or hydro, that you should simply agree and abandon the thought as "oh, that hard, huh?" without a lot of bantering around. Way hard.The science behind it isn't what's hard. It's the execution.
If you wanted a combustible fuel source, to make flame for cooking or whatnot, you've got wood or you could distill alcohol from a crop that has a natural sugar content, or you could horde coal before the shit hits the fan.. Beyond that, occasionally you can find a farm that has a natural gas tap from its own dedicated well. Thats not unheard of. If I had one thing to hope for out of anything on a farm, it would be a gas well.
Of course we already do poo to power today. I've read (but have not confirmed) that cow shit is a major source of Methane in the USA. but I think its even less efficient than Hydro or Wind or Solar.The number of pigs required to power anything with methane would be ridiculous, and the science behind stripping methane requires some extremely complex engineering. It is so many orders of magnitude in the wrong direction from the simplicity of wind, solar, or hydro, that you should simply agree and abandon the thought as "oh, that hard, huh?" without a lot of bantering around. Way hard.The science behind it isn't what's hard. It's the execution.
If you wanted a combustible fuel source, to make flame for cooking or whatnot, you've got wood or you could distill alcohol from a crop that has a natural sugar content, or you could horde coal before the shit hits the fan.. Beyond that, occasionally you can find a farm that has a natural gas tap from its own dedicated well. Thats not unheard of. If I had one thing to hope for out of anything on a farm, it would be a gas well.
I don't know this high school kids project made it look fairly easy and low cost.
http://www.small-farm-permaculture-and-sustainable-living.com/methane_generator.html (http://www.small-farm-permaculture-and-sustainable-living.com/methane_generator.html)
Poo to power seems like a fantastic idea to me. Could always supplement with the family poo.
To use solar, wind or hydro you have to have an outside energy source of either sun, wind or running water. Methane is ultimately the most dependable because every animal poos. Even if the methane is used more like propane as people use it for cooking and gas lighting.
My question is....how much room would it take to grow enough food to live sustainably? Say I have good weather most of the year, some goats for milk to make butter and cheese, some chickens for eggs and meat. How much space would it take for that plus veggies and grains, such that I never need to go shopping for food and still eat well?
Maybe check out how much land people in history were allowed to utilize for themselves, peasants and that sort of thing. They would have to give like 9/10ths to the king, or some standard measure. I'm not well versed on that stuff, but I think there was some sort of standard. There were similar tactics in early American history with indentured people, I believe. And they became very proficient at using the little allotment of land, one acre or whatever it was. Since all farming was done by hand and they were ultimately responsible for 10/10ths, their little spot would require their time and labor as well. Modern people in all their glorious flab should be able to handle 1/10th of a peasants chores. (LOL, or maybe not)
I actually am well versed in peasant's relationships to respective lords, and while its fantastically complex in some ways, never was there an amount even approaching fifty percent in "in kind"(barter-direct grain payment) or in specie payment. Indeed, usually it was far less. That said, medieval lords and kings were economic regulators that would make Keynes drool, virtually everything as a seignoirial monopoly(milling, brewing, baking...etc. ), and from these protected monopolies lords would gain a good bit of their income-that and the courts. Even so, the tax burden(especially in England where I'm most familiar) before say 1300, would have been minuscule compared to that demanded by modern states-including regulatory, and "legal" taxes that most sheep ignore today.
The notion that peasants paid 9/10 to some lord is simply modernist propaganda-they had a hard life, no doubt, but they didn't need to pay for a Nimitz class aircraft carrier. We have not progressed...but in dentistry.
the science behind stripping methane requires some extremely complex engineering.
In general terms, a subsurface flow wetland consists of a basin, sometimes called a “cell,” that is lined with a barrier to prevent seepage. The basin is then filled with gravel to support the root structure of aqueous vegetation, which is planted directly into the gravel.
The constructed wetlands I had on my property didn't use a barrier. They were to make up for disturbed wetlands that were removed for a sewer easement.
I owned them.
I donno how they can be considered wetlands if they have a barrier.
In general crickets are about 69% moisture, 21% protein, 6% fat and 3% carbohydrates. Crickets have about 21mg of calcium/100g .
A thousand sq ft.Here is a link to a small scale operation. http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/DD7671.html (http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/DD7671.html)
haha
Sorry whoever sold you a constructed wetland application without a liner was stealing your money.
I would treat greywater and blackwater differently, and probably use greywater for irrigation.
I don't want my ball sweat leeching into my taters.
Drifter I have no clue
Apples are delicious.
Apples are delicious.
Especially organic ones grown with ball sweat?
I wonder how hard it would be to farm seaweed - it seems to be one of the most micronutrient-dense foodstuffs in the world, especially for vegetable calcium, iron, B vitamins, etc.
Speaking of Mexican picker's urine...
I wonder how hard it would be to farm seaweed - it seems to be one of the most micronutrient-dense foodstuffs in the world, especially for vegetable calcium, iron, B vitamins, etc.
[youtube=425,350]QVo2bOIN_AA[/youtube]
Well, it does perform a function similar to a tractor-powered plow: what they do is have chickens live in a caged area for a week, clawing up and fertilizing the soil, and then they move the cage / coop over a few yards and plant the area the chickens prepared, and so onward the week after that.
I haven't come across any yield statistics for kale yet, but I'd guess it would be close to Swiss Chard (~5 tons per acre = 1 million calories w/ 38% protein). Those greens aren't champions of caloric efficiency, but they're great champions when it comes to vitamins and minerals (particularly calcium, if you're a vegan).
Freezing or canning veggies just doesn't compute in my mind, so I think it's best to grow them in a heated greenhouse year-round. If you plan and time it out just right, you can just go to your greenhouse every day and have a variety of things to pick for your salad that just reached the peak of ripeness! I wonder if we'll see any neighbourhood greenhouses popping up in Free Stater dominated areas (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=19215) any time soon? ;)
Freezing or canning veggies just doesn't compute in my mind, so I think it's best to grow them in a heated greenhouse year-round.
Mushrooms!I've heard that since mushrooms are mostly air, they arent worth choosing as more than a delicacy.
FOOD | MCPA | PP |
Apple (http://www.localharvest.org/blog/15945/entry/calories_per_acre_with_apples) | 23.6 | 2% |
Hemp Seed (http://www.crrh.org/) [2] (http://earthfriendlygoods.com/pages/NutritionalComposition.php) | 18.1 | 18% |
Potato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato#History) | 9.2 | 8% |
Pear (http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_meatvsfruityield.html) | 8.2 | 4% |
Almond | 8.0 | 14% |
Maize | 7.5 | 16% |
Rice | 7.4 | 8% |
Carrot (http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/hortcrop/h912w.htm) | 5.8 | 9% |
Garlic | 3.8 | 17% |
Rutabaga (http://nutrition.about.com/od/fruitsandvegetables/p/Rutabagas.htm) [PDF] (http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/hortcrop/h912.pdf) | 3.2 | 13% |
Wheat | 3.0 | 14% |
Sweet Potato (http://books.google.com/books?id=PglBAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq="calories+per+acre"&source=bl&ots=TLZ1qTs_QY&sig=BcC4sXim2duOKBM6r4NluGavQD4&hl=en&ei=7xD9SvezI5TEnges6oiRCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBwQ6AEwBDgU#v=onepage&q="calories per acre"&f=false) | 2.9 | 6% |
Soybeans | 2.8 | 53% |
Barley (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-13588083.html) | 2.8 | 12% |
Peas | 2.5 | 28% |
Brussels Sprouts | 2.2 | 32% |
Broccoli (http://fiveislandsorchard.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/why-everyone-should-stop-eating-industrial-meat/) | 2.1 | 28% |
Sweet Cherry (http://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/Montana/Publications/Press_Releases_Crops/cherryann.htm) | 1.9 | 7% |
Rye | 1.8 | 18% |
Turnip | 1.4 | 13% |
Okra | 1.3 | 29% |
Peanut | 1.3 | 18% |
Oats | 1.3 | 14% |
Beans | 1.1 | 25% |
Tomato | 1.1 | 24% |
Cabbage (http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/Gardener-Monthly-V25/Profit-In-Cabbage.html) | 1.1 | 19% |
Swiss Chard | 1.0 | 38% |
Buckwheat | 0.8 | 16% |
Spinach | 0.6 | 50% |
Blueberry (http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/MannUsda/viewDocumentInfo.do?documentID=1765) | 0.6 | 5% |
(1) Mushrooms are an experimental idea, I'm not really committed to as I am to beans and someday (THC-free) hemp.
(2) A 1,000 pound cow produces an average of 10 tons of manure a year. It would take a lot of mushrooms to equal that.
(3) The stink factor probably depends on the species of fungus, I'll bet some don't smell at all.
I think that most rural homeowners engaged in self-reliant agriculture would have places other than their residential basements to use for growing mushrooms. I'm thinking bottom shelf of the greenhouse maybe? Greenhouses can also contain very large soil containers with multiple plant / fungus species growing symbiotically.
If you really wanted to make ideal use of limited land you could even have reinforced tunnels spiraling under your property (hey, it worked for Việt Cộng!) filled to the brim with fungus, but that would sound a little scary to some (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros._%28film%29)... :lol:
This week, in being almost completely vegan, I have realized that I really hate the taste of mushrooms.
This week, in being almost completely vegan, I have realized that I really hate the taste of mushrooms.
I can only eat them raw.
[...] Potatoes are roughly the most productive crop you can grow in most temperate climates. They also happen to be a bit more nutritious than usually given credit for. They are not "pure starch", but in fact contain roughly 2% fairly high-quality protein. The percentage of protein is low, but potatoes are so prolific that you still end up with 500-1000kg of protein per year per hectare of potatoes, versus 164-500kg of protein from soybeans, 98-300kg of protein from wheat, and only 33kg protein from milk produced by cows.
The protein by the way is found almost entirely right under the skin -- it's in the yellowish layer you see when you gently peel just the outermost skin from the potato -- which is why you should never peel potatoes (you're throwing all their protein content away), but instead always cook them unpeeled and then carefully pull the skin off.
Potatoes are surprisingly rich in other nutrients. They contain the B vitamins and are surprisingly rich in B6, and contain plenty of vitamin C. If they have yellowish flesh then they usually have significant amounts of carotenoids, which are a precursor to vitamin A that your body can use to make vitamin A.
...Or, you could dice them with the skins on, and stir-fry them some onions and peppers. If you have a massive boner to utilize the skins and avoid the bulk of the potato, leave a golf-ball piece of potato aside, like a core.
We humans call them "home fries". Snooty people call them Potatoes O'brien.
Doesn't mean you have to do it all the time. But if I had potatoes to burn, and other garden veggies, thats what I'd do. They also re-heat nicely in a skillet with very little effort.
You can also pan fry the skins as a snacky meal, if you liberally season the skins with some cayenne pepper, or something else zesty that meets your vegan approval.
Don't do that faggy par-boiling horseshit, you'll make gruel.
Stop posting on this forum, it's all about to be deleted. This has got to be the biggest Nazi bookburning in human history! My life has been completely and totally destroyed. The only thing that matters now is revenge and death.
Stop posting on this forum, it's all about to be deleted. This has got to be the biggest Nazi bookburning in human history! My life has been completely and totally destroyed. The only thing that matters now is revenge and death.
That's more than half the forum! I've been here since 2006. That's it, there's no justifying this. It's all over.
IT'S ALL FUCKING OVER!
The commies won.