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Author Topic: I have quite Christianity  (Read 41907 times)

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fisher

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2006, 01:09:50 PM »

We were created and now we are to look after ourself, that is my belief.
Who do you mean by "we"?
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TN_FSP

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2006, 01:22:53 PM »

We were created and now we are to look after ourself, that is my belief.
Who do you mean by "we"?

Everything that is alive.  For example, a fisher.
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libertylover

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2006, 01:23:54 PM »

Fine.  Tell me the point of Deism.

It seems like the biggest cop out ever.  "Oh yes, there's a God, he made the world, but now he's on vacation in some other universe sipping on martinis."  In a deist world, God is neither sufficient or nessecary- he fails Occam's Razor.

So why believe in God at all?

Cause, people are suppose to be free to believe anything they wish as long as they don't impose those beliefs on others.  Just as you should be free to think what you think.

It is simpler to believe a god created the universe rather than a big bang created a release of mass and energy and all of them condensed into clouds that later became stars and planets and a random accident sparked life and life multiplied yadda yadda yadda.  Ockham's Razor can be applied to Deism.  Deism is the simplest religious explanation of all and is the only one that doesn't contradict science (yet) since we as of yet do not know what caused the big bang. Anything more complex than "A god or something created the universe" delves into the unnecessary.  


(Ockham is an acceptable alt. spelling.)
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BenTucker

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2006, 01:38:01 PM »

a deist believes that all that is required to create a good society is reason and a keen observation of the natural world with the resulting common sense.
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TN_FSP

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2006, 01:39:20 PM »

a deist believes that all that is required to create a good society is reason and a keen observation of the natural world with the resulting common sense.

You don't have to believe that to be a Deist.
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BenTucker

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2006, 01:42:59 PM »

a deist believes that all that is required to create a good society is reason and a keen observation of the natural world with the resulting common sense.

You don't have to believe that to be a Deist.

reason?

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TN_FSP

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2006, 01:45:48 PM »

a deist believes that all that is required to create a good society is reason and a keen observation of the natural world with the resulting common sense.

You don't have to believe that to be a Deist.

reason?



You don't have to think "a deist believes that all that is required to create a good society is reason and a keen observation of the natural world with the resulting common sense."
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BenTucker

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2006, 02:00:01 PM »

a deist believes that all that is required to create a good society is reason and a keen observation of the natural world with the resulting common sense.

You don't have to believe that to be a Deist.

reason?



You don't have to think "a deist believes that all that is required to create a good society is reason and a keen observation of the natural world with the resulting common sense."

ok, what do you have to think to be considered a deist?

just call yourself a deist?
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libertylover

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2006, 02:14:22 PM »

Yep, cause there is not great book of Deism or any High Holy Deist Days or a Deist Pope and or Prophet.  While there is a virtual church of Deism it doesn't impose any theological rules, pretty much you have to be a selfselected or selfidentified Deist.  However, it is correct that a great many Deist believe that all that is required to create a good society is reason and a keen observation of the natural world with the resulting common sense.  It just isn't a requirement as there are no requirements it is simply what you prefer to be called to identify your personal beleifs.
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lepidoptera

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2006, 02:16:14 PM »

I'm saying God is a ridiculous idea.

He defined God as truth.  If you define God as truth, I believe in God.  But I don't believe in the actual definition of a god.

(Sort of like if "pro-life" meant "legal abortion" I'd be "pro-life" but it doesn't, so I'm not)
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lepidoptera

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2006, 02:20:37 PM »

Fine.  Tell me the point of Deism.

It seems like the biggest cop out ever.  "Oh yes, there's a God, he made the world, but now he's on vacation in some other universe sipping on martinis."  In a deist world, God is neither sufficient or nessecary- he fails Occam's Razor.

So why believe in God at all?

Cause, people are suppose to be free to believe anything they wish as long as they don't impose those beliefs on others.  Just as you should be free to think what you think.

It is simpler to believe a god created the universe rather than a big bang created a release of mass and energy and all of them condensed into clouds that later became stars and planets and a random accident sparked life and life multiplied yadda yadda yadda.  Ockham's Razor can be applied to Deism.  Deism is the simplest religious explanation of all and is the only one that doesn't contradict science (yet) since we as of yet do not know what caused the big bang. Anything more complex than "A god or something created the universe" delves into the unnecessary. 


(Ockham is an acceptable alt. spelling.)

I never implied that I was going to force anyone not to be a Deist, did I?  I was attacking the idea.

By your admittance, deism is simply an exagerated version of the god of the gaps.  Anywhere that science can't explain, that's God.  Except that historically, a spot occupied by "God" was later proven to be explainable by God.  Why believe in a god if all he does is occupy the space that science hasn't got to yet?

It seems philisophically more intelligent to either reconcile God with science or get rid of the concept altogether.
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fisher

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2006, 02:23:22 PM »

But I don't believe in the actual definition of a god.
What is the actual definition of god?
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fisher

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2006, 02:26:45 PM »

(Sort of like if "pro-life" meant "legal abortion" I'd be "pro-life" but it doesn't, so I'm not)
Sort of like if "pro-choice" had something to do with choice I would be for it, but it doesn't, it means pro-abortion, so I'm not.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 02:54:52 PM by fisher »
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libertylover

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2006, 02:47:08 PM »

In answer to Why?   Cause Deist want to and don't really have to answer to anyone for those beliefs nor should they have to.  Any more than an Atheist should have to answer to anyone for their beliefs. Nor should Christians, Hindi, Buddist, Druids, Wiccans, Islam, Jews or people from the Church of the Divine Spegetti Monster with his noodly appendages.  It is all about personal choice and that personal choice is valid as long as they are willing to respect the personal choices of others.

OR is just a tool for simplifying logical arguments.  It's not a measurement or an observation, so it certainly could not be used as "evidence against theology".   I was pointing out that tools of logic can be twisted especially when applied to non-scientific applications such as theology.

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BenTucker

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Re: I have quite Christianity
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2006, 02:49:52 PM »

do you not have to believe in the benefits of rational thought (reason) as a fundamental tenet?
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