The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: Ecolitan on July 26, 2009, 06:51:37 AM
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The brother in law of a long time friend of mine who also works for me part time and hosts the poker game I've been going to for 4 years. He's a good player and has always been one of the biggest leaks in my game.
Today I caught him cheating 3 separate times.
It was down 3 of us and we were playing for a decent chunck of change left by several players coming and going with lots of re-buys in a cash game . The night often ends that way. I planned on going home with everything. The cheater was very large stacked.
It was 30 minutes into 3 handed play that I first caught him. I made sure he knew I was on to him and that I was keeping on eye on his hand movements. The second time I pointed out a flaw in his slight of hand technique and told his opponent that he (the cheater) folds as the mark had just put in a large bet on the river. Undaunted he thought for awhile and asked if he had him beat and then folded.
I expected by then he would just slowly give up all his chips and thank us for coming, but he did it a third time and by then I had tipped off the third player who easily spotted his movements and we just quit playing hands when he dealt. It was obvious to him at this point we knew what he was doing and his head was hanging pretty low.
We both played at him aggressively and even with each other and he played good poker right back but we shortened his stack steadily. This went on for about 7- 10 rotations where he did no more cheating. The third player is a little bitch and started saying things like: "I've got what I came with, I'm happy." in hopes of avoiding confrontation. When I was tired of waiting I pushed all in on a draw that I normally wouldn't have and that player 3 should have folded anyway but he called and won. The cheater exclaimed: "Why'd you give him all that money?" I said it didn't matter. I asked the cheater what he thought we should do? Player 3 started counting his chips and trying to cash out while I explaing to the cheater there was no way he was keeping any of that money (he still thought he was, but he caved quickly). I then told player 3 to get the moneybox and get as much as he was in for and to give me the rest, that I had earned it for spotting the cheat. The cheater mumbled things about how he doesn't usually do that and they're really broke these days (It's like pulling teeth to get him to come to work). Player 3 did what he was told. I told the cheater I'd see him around and left. It was raining. I was on a motorcycle. My feet are cold.
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The brother in law of a long time friend of mine who also works for me part time and hosts the poker game I've been going to for 4 years. He's a good player and has always been one of the biggest leaks in my game.
Today I caught him cheating 3 separate times.
It was down 3 of us and we were playing for a decent chunck of change left by several players coming and going with lots of re-buys in a cash game . The night often ends that way. I planned on going home with everything. The cheater was very large stacked.
It was 30 minutes into 3 handed play that I first caught him. I made sure he knew I was on to him and that I was keeping on eye on his hand movements. The second time I pointed out a flaw in his slight of hand technique and told his opponent that he (the cheater) folds as the mark had just put in a large bet on the river. Undaunted he thought for awhile and asked if he had him beat and then folded.
I expected by then he would just slowly give up all his chips and thank us for coming, but he did it a third time and by then I had tipped off the third player who easily spotted his movements and we just quit playing hands when he dealt. It was obvious to him at this point we knew what he was doing and his head was hanging pretty low.
We both played at him aggressively and even with each other and he played good poker right back but we shortened his stack steadily. This went on for about 7- 10 rotations where he did no more cheating. The third player is a little bitch and started saying things like: "I've got what I came with, I'm happy." in hopes of avoiding confrontation. When I was tired of waiting I pushed all in on a draw that I normally wouldn't have and that player 3 should have folded anyway but he called and won. The cheater exclaimed: "Why'd you give him all that money?" I said it didn't matter. I asked the cheater what he thought we should do? Player 3 started counting his chips and trying to cash out while I explaing to the cheater there was no way he was keeping any of that money (he still thought he was, but he caved quickly). I then told player 3 to get the moneybox and get as much as he was in for and to give me the rest, that I had earned it for spotting the cheat. The cheater mumbled things about how he doesn't usually do that and they're really broke these days (It's like pulling teeth to get him to come to work). Player 3 did what he was told. I told the cheater I'd see him around and left. It was raining. I was on a motorcycle. My feet are cold.
What kind of work do you do? think he's a druggy?
And LOL @ cheating at poker. That's pretty bad.
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Hmm, maybe this is why gambling is considered evil by a few religions and should only be played by friends for a fraction of what you earn.
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Off with his head!
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This is the problem with home games. Collusion, dealing from the bottom, ect. I got a brother that is in surveillance and he let me attend a demonstration of this magician/dealer that could do things with cards that no one except a professional that was watching intensely could catch. Never play home games, 95% will have at least one cheater.
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How was he cheating?
If you shuffle a deck, etc, how can one cheat?
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How was he cheating?
If you shuffle a deck, etc, how can one cheat?
There's several tricks one can use to "stack the deck" or change cards. Since the OP mentioned slight of hand I'm sure it was something relating to that.
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1. Stand up rapidly.
2. Flip poker table over.
3. Shoot the cheater in the chest.
4. Profit !!
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What kind of work do you do? think he's a druggy?
Residential remodeling.
No he's not a druggy... an alcoholic but not a raging one.
He was dealing himself extra cards and then waiting til the river to put back the ones he didn't want.
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What kind of work do you do? think he's a druggy?
No he's not a druggy... an alcoholic but not a raging one.
He was dealing himself extra cards and then waiting til the river to put back the ones he didn't want.
Double dippin' dealing? Increases your win % but still has a lot of risk for a cheat.
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I caught a kid cheating once. When he was dealer he was pulling all the aces out and tucking them under his hat, the kid next to him's butt, etc.
I was a kid too, so I just quit and then stood behind him and pulled each card out saying stuff like "oh? Where'd this come from man?" as he tucked it away.
I embarrassed him and then left the building for the duration of the game with my buddies. The next day I got together with a bunch of the people playing and practiced slight of hand tricks together. The cheater? Ostracized.
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The cheater? Ostracized.
I haven't decided what I'm going to do about this. He and the wife just graduated college and are very dependent on his in-laws, whom I know well. It wouldn't be as big a deal as say... busting them for smoking pot but it would be very bad for him if his father-in-law found out he's been cheating at poker because he's so broke AS WELL as not coming to work when he can... very. I had already found his replacement at work before this incident.
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The cheater? Ostracized.
I haven't decided what I'm going to do about this. He and the wife just graduated college and are very dependent on his in-laws, whom I know well. It wouldn't be as big a deal as say... busting them for smoking pot but it would be very bad for him if his father-in-law found out he's been cheating at poker because he's so broke AS WELL as not coming to work when he can... very. I had already found his replacement at work before this incident.
Well, it was easy for me because I was at Boy Scout camp many many states away, and it was one where practically everyone came from many states away too. As scouts we were very organized and it was easy to shun someone for being so stupid, if only temporarily. I dunno what you should do, there's quite a lot of drama involved.
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The cheater? Ostracized.
I haven't decided what I'm going to do about this. He and the wife just graduated college and are very dependent on his in-laws, whom I know well. It wouldn't be as big a deal as say... busting them for smoking pot but it would be very bad for him if his father-in-law found out he's been cheating at poker because he's so broke AS WELL as not coming to work when he can... very. I had already found his replacement at work before this incident.
How much money are we talking about?
Do you think he's done it before and was just off tonight or was it too amateurish for that?
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The cheater? Ostracized.
I haven't decided what I'm going to do about this. He and the wife just graduated college and are very dependent on his in-laws, whom I know well. It wouldn't be as big a deal as say... busting them for smoking pot but it would be very bad for him if his father-in-law found out he's been cheating at poker because he's so broke AS WELL as not coming to work when he can... very. I had already found his replacement at work before this incident.
How much money are we talking about?
Do you think he's done it before and was just off tonight or was it too amateurish for that?
I think he got drunk and careless this time. I think he's been doing it for a long time. There was about 200 dollars in the pot this week, that's pretty common, sometimes it goes much higher. He's been a very successful player at his game. There's always pot and booze and conversation. It wouldn't be hard to pick your moments in that game and carry very little risk. I was sober and paying more attention than usual. He picked some of his moments poorly.
It's not a matter of whether he does this regularly but whether his good friend that builds a lot of big pots but hasn't won much of anything consistently for awhile now is shilling for him and getting a cut. That guy was out of town this week.
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I would say that for someone who just discovered that another person has been attempting to steal from him on an ongoing basis, you showed a lot of restraint.
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cut him out of the game untill he pays (reasonable) restitution, and if you do let him back in definitely no dealing for him
or if he shows no intent on repenting, round up any guys he's been playing with, go to his house to demand restitution
I suppose it depends how much you actually like the guy and are willing to overlook this.
and ignore any idiots who are going to promote the use of violence
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I'll sit on him for you.
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I would say that for someone who just discovered that another person has been attempting to steal from him on an ongoing basis, you showed a lot of restraint.
It's true. I showed uncharacteristic restraint. There is no doubt, he didn't just try, he did steal from me on an ongoing basis. He's certainly taken me for somewhere in the 3 digit range in the last 6 months (since I've been back in OKC). Chips move around a lot, there's no way of really knowing.
cut him out of the game untill he pays (reasonable) restitution, and if you do let him back in definitely no dealing for him
or if he shows no intent on repenting, round up any guys he's been playing with, go to his house to demand restitution
I suppose it depends how much you actually like the guy and are willing to overlook this.
and ignore any idiots who are going to promote the use of violence
There is no cutting him out of the game. It's his game. I don't even have phone numbers for those guys, except the one I think might be his cohort. It's not worth violence in this situation (It's not enough money to go to prison over).
I REALLY like him. He's been my man friend these days and I'm all involved with his wife's family both personally and professionally. It's a real shitty situation like that with problems like: If I up and quit going to poker every week his father-in-law is going to want to know why. If I tell him (and why would I lie? He's my buddy too.) then everyone is going to be pissed at ME for making things difficult...
So far I haven't said anything to anyone except his sister-in-law who I was texting all about it as it was happening. I'm sure they're (the wife and he) aren't talking. They've been worried I'd let slip they smoke pot for years, they're no doubt nervous about what I'll do.
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I'll sit on him for you.
That's better than any idea I've had.
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Theres one or two things that I really don't tolerate among my friends. Lying is a big one. Cheating, to me, is pretty much the same thing as lying. Its deceit. I'm okay with 'white lies', theres no need to be rude about certain things like "we were gonna ask you to come along, but you didn't pick up your phone" or something like that.
I'd scratch that fuck right off the list. He'll get the hint eventually, and dry up and blow away.
If he's got money problems, he shouldn't be buying into the game.
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If he's got money problems, he shouldn't be buying into the game.
Absolutely. Dumb ass is receiving help from the in-laws but still attending the poker game. What a loser.
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That's a given.