Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  I'm not a porcupine anymore
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 21   Go Down

Author Topic: I'm not a porcupine anymore  (Read 60965 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Evil Muppet

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5487
    • View Profile
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #240 on: July 14, 2009, 11:58:19 PM »



FSP IS THE ONLY HOPE FOR TOTAL LIBERTY! IF YOU ARENT MOVING TO NEW HAMPSHIRE YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME!


You are saying that the chances of liberty are hopeless everywhere.  We are saying it is hopeless everywhere except where you see a bunch of people gathered together to fight for it. 
Logged
Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

Rebel

  • Womanizer
  • FTL AMPlifier Platinum
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1612
  • Detroit's Finest
    • View Profile
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #241 on: July 15, 2009, 01:42:07 AM »



FSP IS THE ONLY HOPE FOR TOTAL LIBERTY! IF YOU ARENT MOVING TO NEW HAMPSHIRE YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME!


You are saying that the chances of liberty are hopeless everywhere.  We are saying it is hopeless everywhere except where you see a bunch of people gathered together to fight for it. 
I'm with EM on this.
Logged

blackie

  • Guest
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #242 on: July 15, 2009, 10:30:55 AM »



FSP IS THE ONLY HOPE FOR TOTAL LIBERTY! IF YOU ARENT MOVING TO NEW HAMPSHIRE YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME!


You are saying that the chances of liberty are hopeless everywhere.  We are saying it is hopeless everywhere except where you see a bunch of people gathered together to fight for it. 
I'm with EM on this.
Good luck with your fight.

I'm not looking for a fight.
Logged

fatcat

  • Guest
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #243 on: July 15, 2009, 10:34:46 AM »



FSP IS THE ONLY HOPE FOR TOTAL LIBERTY! IF YOU ARENT MOVING TO NEW HAMPSHIRE YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME!


You are saying that the chances of liberty are hopeless everywhere.  We are saying it is hopeless everywhere except where you see a bunch of people gathered together to fight for it.  

I never once brought up the word "hopeless".

Personally I think the Seasteading institute has the most realistic opportunity of getting "liberty in our lifetimes", and hope to get involved with it as soon as possible.

I think FSP NH is a good idea, so long as people moving are not being mislead about what to expect. Slow down the rate at which things get worse? Definitely a realistic goal for the FSP. Decriminalize Cannabis? Also an admirable goal.

Getting yourself thrown in jail and hoping the government to give up as a result is not a realistic expectation, its a waste of time. Even if by some miracle NH started getting freer, increases in Federal Government would most likely negate any progress made.

Obama to raise taxes to pay for "public healthcare", not to mention the amount of money thats being pissed away on "financial stimulus", or that Obama has stated he wants to make the Assault Weapons ban permanent.

You saying that I'm in favor of "hopelessness" is exactly the polemic bullshit I've come to expect from NH FSP supporters. Everything has to be some big fucking hero act. NH is the only hope, everything else is a waste of time, there's no chance anywhere else etc etc.

Anyone who doesn't think NH is the holy fucking grail cannot possibly have a viable alternative, their either lazy, deluded or wants people to give up, because the FSP is so important and its going to achieve so much.

All this is based purely on supposition. NH is not the freest place in the world, and theres little to no evidence to suggest it is likely to become the freest place in the world. Just because you want it to be so, doesn't make it so. The entire emphasis in the NH lib movement seems to be on ideology and how hard people are trying, not how much they're actually changing.

Its always "you don't know what might happen", not "look at whats happening". Which is understandable since NH is getting worse every year and most people don't like realistically addressing negative things.

As far as I can see FSP libertarians are fighting a losing battle for freedom in NH (as in NH is getting less free, not more). As admirable that might be purely in terms of effort, it doesn't mean anything is getting done, and the attitude that "the only chance is when people get together in one place", also ignores the fact its also perfectly possible (and likely) that people getting together in NH is going to achieve nothing or pretty close to nothing.

Although I understand how its easy to castigate anyone who disagrees with you as a naysayer who just wants everyone to give up.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 10:53:59 AM by fatcat »
Logged

blackie

  • Guest
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #244 on: July 15, 2009, 10:43:22 AM »

Logged

One two three

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3650
    • View Profile
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #245 on: July 15, 2009, 11:22:41 AM »

Actually, things are getting better in Grafton. 
Logged
Why New Hampshire?  Learn why 1000s of liberty activists are planning to move to NH.  See the debate in page after page of forum messages, http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?124976-101-Reasons-to-move-to-New-Hampshire

blackie

  • Guest
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #246 on: July 15, 2009, 11:25:48 AM »

Actually, things are getting better in Grafton. 
Like what?
Logged

Bill Brasky

  • Guest
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #247 on: July 15, 2009, 12:58:17 PM »

Quote
They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.
Lack of strip clubs is always fixable if there's demand.

Actually, no.  You have to get a permit.  This is why there are a total of three operating in NH.  The fix is in, they are grandfathered.

Logged

Harry Tuttle

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2106
  • Please don't feed the elitists
    • View Profile
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #248 on: July 15, 2009, 01:24:12 PM »

Quote
They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.
Lack of strip clubs is always fixable if there's demand.

Actually, no.  You have to get a permit.  This is why there are a total of three operating in NH.  The fix is in, they are grandfathered.



That clinches it. I'm staying the F out of NH.
Logged
"If you're giving up your freedom to have freedom you don't have freedom, dummy."              - Mark Edge (10/11/08 show)

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #249 on: July 15, 2009, 01:44:21 PM »

Quote
They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.
Lack of strip clubs is always fixable if there's demand.

Actually, no.  You have to get a permit.  This is why there are a total of three operating in NH.  The fix is in, they are grandfathered.



That clinches it. I'm staying the F out of NH.
You could always drive across the border to another state with more strip clubs if that's your thing.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Evil Muppet

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5487
    • View Profile
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #250 on: July 15, 2009, 01:57:15 PM »



FSP IS THE ONLY HOPE FOR TOTAL LIBERTY! IF YOU ARENT MOVING TO NEW HAMPSHIRE YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME!


You are saying that the chances of liberty are hopeless everywhere.  We are saying it is hopeless everywhere except where you see a bunch of people gathered together to fight for it.  

I never once brought up the word "hopeless".

Personally I think the Seasteading institute has the most realistic opportunity of getting "liberty in our lifetimes", and hope to get involved with it as soon as possible.

I think FSP NH is a good idea, so long as people moving are not being mislead about what to expect. Slow down the rate at which things get worse? Definitely a realistic goal for the FSP. Decriminalize Cannabis? Also an admirable goal.

Getting yourself thrown in jail and hoping the government to give up as a result is not a realistic expectation, its a waste of time. Even if by some miracle NH started getting freer, increases in Federal Government would most likely negate any progress made.

Obama to raise taxes to pay for "public healthcare", not to mention the amount of money thats being pissed away on "financial stimulus", or that Obama has stated he wants to make the Assault Weapons ban permanent.

You saying that I'm in favor of "hopelessness" is exactly the polemic bullshit I've come to expect from NH FSP supporters. Everything has to be some big fucking hero act. NH is the only hope, everything else is a waste of time, there's no chance anywhere else etc etc.

Anyone who doesn't think NH is the holy fucking grail cannot possibly have a viable alternative, their either lazy, deluded or wants people to give up, because the FSP is so important and its going to achieve so much.

All this is based purely on supposition. NH is not the freest place in the world, and theres little to no evidence to suggest it is likely to become the freest place in the world. Just because you want it to be so, doesn't make it so. The entire emphasis in the NH lib movement seems to be on ideology and how hard people are trying, not how much they're actually changing.

Its always "you don't know what might happen", not "look at whats happening". Which is understandable since NH is getting worse every year and most people don't like realistically addressing negative things.

As far as I can see FSP libertarians are fighting a losing battle for freedom in NH (as in NH is getting less free, not more). As admirable that might be purely in terms of effort, it doesn't mean anything is getting done, and the attitude that "the only chance is when people get together in one place", also ignores the fact its also perfectly possible (and likely) that people getting together in NH is going to achieve nothing or pretty close to nothing.

Although I understand how its easy to castigate anyone who disagrees with you as a naysayer who just wants everyone to give up.

Everything you've been saying suggests that you believe the situation to be hopeless.  You have stated that the best we can do is either slow down the march of the government juggernaut or run away and hide somewhere.  You believe that anyone who thinks that they can move us towards becoming a free and open society is simply being unrealistic.  Though I have to wonder how it is that you can honestly believe that you know what is an unrealistic expectation.  You are not here.   You do not know about even half of the activity that is going on.  You have little understanding of the political institutions of New Hampshire or of the United States.  You do not understand the political character of the people who are here.  Hell, I doubt you even have an understanding of history.  

We're losing the fight for freedom?  Bullshit.  We have barely begun the fight here.  We are picking up strength and momentum and they are losing their strength and momentum.  We are gaining experience.  We are gaining new recruits.  They are not.  We are more dedicated.  We are more passionate.  They have to pay their people to do the things that many free staters are willing to do.      

All you have is passed judgment on where we are now.  You have failed to see how the current situation will lead to the next.  Obama is pushing for a new tax is your evidence that we are failing?  Absolutely not.  It will simply provide another spring board for our success.  Lest you forget that the reason we no longer live under the British yoke is because we rebelled because of their taxes.  Rome collapsed under the weight of their tax system.  Spain lost their world wide empire because of their tax system.

You can continue to point out the loss of freedoms and think that is evidence of our failure or you can realize that the government is simply painting itself into a corner and creating the conditions for its own downfall.  They are destroying the economy.  The government is nearly bankrupt, we are fighting wars the majority oppose, they are increasing taxes, they are passing more and more laws.  The government is simply setting the stage for our success.  

But you know better than all of us.  You have some kind of expertise that only comes only from sitting thousands of miles away and looking at the world through a lens of pessimism.  
Logged
Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

Bill Brasky

  • Guest
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #251 on: July 15, 2009, 02:02:07 PM »

Quote
They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.
Lack of strip clubs is always fixable if there's demand.

Actually, no.  You have to get a permit.  This is why there are a total of three operating in NH.  The fix is in, they are grandfathered.



That clinches it. I'm staying the F out of NH.
You could always drive across the border to another state with more strip clubs if that's your thing.

I've been mentioning this for three years.  Its not the clubs themselves that are important, but the mindset of the people who call the shots.  Its very tight-assed to restrict a lucerative, private business that is normally safer than ordinary bars.  These clubs have bouncers and usually don't allow any shennanigans in the parking lot.  

But hey, as long as y'all have your guns...  who cares if they control what kind of establishment you can operate.  
Logged

blackie

  • Guest
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #252 on: July 15, 2009, 02:12:14 PM »

Quote
They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.
Lack of strip clubs is always fixable if there's demand.

Actually, no.  You have to get a permit.  This is why there are a total of three operating in NH.  The fix is in, they are grandfathered.
I thought it was done at the local level, mostly using zoning rules.

http://www.town.rindge.nh.us/SEXUALLY_20ORIENTED_20BUS_202006.pdf
Logged

blackie

  • Guest
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #253 on: July 15, 2009, 02:15:15 PM »

But hey, as long as y'all have your guns...  who cares if they control what kind of establishment you can operate. 
This is one of the trade-off deals for me. I couldn't care less about strip clubs and bars.
Logged

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #254 on: July 15, 2009, 02:17:29 PM »

Quote
They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.
Lack of strip clubs is always fixable if there's demand.

Actually, no.  You have to get a permit.  This is why there are a total of three operating in NH.  The fix is in, they are grandfathered.



That clinches it. I'm staying the F out of NH.
You could always drive across the border to another state with more strip clubs if that's your thing.

I've been mentioning this for three years.  Its not the clubs themselves that are important, but the mindset of the people who call the shots.  Its very tight-assed to restrict a lucerative, private business that is normally safer than ordinary bars.  These clubs have bouncers and usually don't allow any shennanigans in the parking lot.  

But hey, as long as y'all have your guns...  who cares if they control what kind of establishment you can operate.  
It's the state run liquor stores that kill it for me.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 21   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  I'm not a porcupine anymore

// ]]>

Page created in 0.024 seconds with 32 queries.