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Author Topic: I'm not a porcupine anymore  (Read 60931 times)

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Libertarianssuck

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #225 on: July 14, 2009, 01:10:19 AM »

Ghandi was one man.He brought down a government.That is all.....

I dont think they had a combination of tv, beer, or as much wealth during that time. Let alone it was another nation imposing itself upon them. A lot of differences incurred that allowed ghandi to get the people to work together.

This is the best you can do from your end. External conditions may still prevent conversion.

I was with you until these parts.

what do you mean about the first part? You dont think someone could be so indoctrinated and/or stubborn to listen to reason?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 01:35:39 AM by Hideaki »
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Bill Brasky

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #226 on: July 14, 2009, 09:34:21 AM »

Switzerland severely restricts personal firearm ownership. I'm not talking about machine guns here, I'm talking about even hunting rifles. Fuck that shit.

Does this bother you as a hobbyist, or does it bother you on a paranoia - preparedness level?

I can understand wanting some firepower under the bed, but I don't really care about the hobby aspect.  Some people do, and thats fine.  Guns are fun.  I could hide one in the house and be happy, don't have to use it.  So those restrictions don't really concern me.  Unless things have changed, I always thought Swiss expected their citizens to keep a rifle handy. 

It bothers me on the "I should be able to do what I want as long as I'm not initiating force" level.

Yeah, I get that.  But guess what?

Theres no such place.



So I shouldn't pick a place which has the least restrictions as possible?

Thats the basic thing that makes Zug attractive.  Its a trade off.  There are other places, Costa Rica has a large ex-pat population.  You know all this. 

Anyway, I think the trade-off is acceptable.  Going down the checklist, there seems to be more green checkmarks in Zug's column.  Not that I intend to go anywhere in the next several years.  I'll probably end up in the Bahamas.   
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BonerJoe

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #227 on: July 14, 2009, 10:23:26 AM »

Anyway, I think the trade-off is acceptable.  Going down the checklist, there seems to be more green checkmarks in Zug's column.  Not that I intend to go anywhere in the next several years.  I'll probably end up in the Bahamas.   

There are some basic things on my list that make a place totally unacceptable, and Switzerland fails.
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Evil Muppet

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #228 on: July 14, 2009, 11:08:13 AM »

Switzerland sucks.  That's all there is to it.
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Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

Kevin Freeheart

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #229 on: July 14, 2009, 02:46:29 PM »

The "trade off" is the problem, I think. Moving to an area because it more closely meets your defintion if freedom is good but it does nothing to account for the changes that will eliminate those freedoms. New Hampshire MIGHT, but doesn't yet, effectivly combat that problem.

Conservatives piss me off. The conservative vestige of measuring "freedom" by the tax rate also pisses me off.
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Quote from: John Shaw
Libman was setting you up. You see, he's a resident troll, which means that while I hate him passionately and wish him great harm, he's ONE OF OURS. You are a pathetic interloper who will fade away in a few weeks at most.

fatcat

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #230 on: July 14, 2009, 03:32:22 PM »

In other words:

"I've given up, I want you to give up too to sooth my ego. Cause you know, it's logical and stuff. AND IT DOESN"T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MY EMOTIONS!!!!"

Anyway, I am here in Colorado right now. I can tell you it is nice here. Can't say we have lot's of freedom, but since New Yorkers, Californians and even Texans are all moving here because they hate their home states I can imagine those other places are worse. I've only met one person from New Hampshire though. She said she was going back.

No, in other words lots of FSP members are deceitful about what can realistically be expected from the FSP, and I don't agree with them misleading other libertarians.

If they say :

"Move to NH, its one of the freest states in america, you get to spend time with other libertarians, and who knows, maybe in a few years we can help push through cannabis decrim, and stop other bullshit laws getting passed"

Then I have absolutely no problem with that.

The ones saying:

FSP IS THE ONLY HOPE FOR TOTAL LIBERTY! IF YOU ARENT MOVING TO NEW HAMPSHIRE YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME!

are being highly disingenuous, especially when most of the "evidence" used to show how NH might become freer amounts to a bunch of half assed hypothetical "What if?/you don't know/who knows what will happen in the future/it might work!/what else has a chance?", and all the actual hard facts show that in total pretty much every US state is becoming less free.

Draw yourself a graph of freedoms in NH, and America in general over the last 100 years. That's one hell of a downward trend.

Do things ever suddenly change for the better? Sometimes, but trends are trends for a reason, I don't plan to live my life based on the expectation of a really really long shot. Based on the current rate of government growth, NH is very likely to be less free 10 years from now than it is now, much like most other places in the world.


Does this mean no one should do anything for freedom? Of course not. I've never said people should under no circumstance move to NH. What I have said is that people shouldn't move with the (unrealistic) expectation that they will achieve any sort of "libertopia", and people definitely shouldn't be misleading other libertarians to believe these things.
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fatcat

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #231 on: July 14, 2009, 03:37:38 PM »

Ghandi was one man.He brought down a government.That is all.....

Yeah, it was one man, it wasn't like there were millions of other indians active in the indian independence movement....

 :roll:

Also he didn't bring down a government, he just changed which one had the power over millions of indians.
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Bill Brasky

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #232 on: July 14, 2009, 03:59:15 PM »

The "trade off" is the problem, I think. Moving to an area because it more closely meets your defintion if freedom is good but it does nothing to account for the changes that will eliminate those freedoms. New Hampshire MIGHT, but doesn't yet, effectivly combat that problem.

Conservatives piss me off. The conservative vestige of measuring "freedom" by the tax rate also pisses me off.

The problem with this is believing two completely different societies are moving in parallel arcs.  
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blackie

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #233 on: July 14, 2009, 06:33:18 PM »

Conservatives piss me off.
NH is pretty "conservative".  They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.
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JWI

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #234 on: July 14, 2009, 07:48:54 PM »

Ghandi was one man.He brought down a government.That is all.....

Yeah, it was one man, it wasn't like there were millions of other indians active in the indian independence movement....

 :roll:

Also he didn't bring down a government, he just changed which one had the power over millions of indians.

...and he was a racist, thinking one group of people were better than others based on their skin color.  it still amazes me that fsp zealots hold him up like some kind of hero for freedom.
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Riddler

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #235 on: July 14, 2009, 09:29:48 PM »

Conservatives piss me off.
NH is pretty "conservative".  They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.


& turning more liberal by the fucking minute, me friend
seatbelt laws
smoking bans
more taxes on every-fucking-thing
get this, a fucking 9% tax on CAMPSITES, under room & meals....cocksuckers....i bring the fucking room & the meals
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Bill Brasky

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #236 on: July 14, 2009, 09:41:38 PM »

Conservatives piss me off.
NH is pretty "conservative".  They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.


& turning more liberal by the fucking minute, me friend
seatbelt laws
smoking bans
more taxes on every-fucking-thing
get this, a fucking 9% tax on CAMPSITES, under room & meals....cocksuckers....i bring the fucking room & the meals

Join the campers union.  

You'd still have to pay $20 a week, every week, on top of the tax, but you would be guaranteed a place to camp.  
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Kevin Freeheart

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #237 on: July 14, 2009, 10:10:10 PM »

Quote
They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.

I said conservatives, not conservative places. Lack of strip clubs is always fixable if there's demand. I drink beer, not liquor, and compared to the illegality of selling beer at grocery stores, New Hampshire is actually a bit more lax than where I'm currently at.

That said... When we wanna see cute women dancing nekkid around here, my wife and I head to the West Virginia panhandle which is considered both redneck and conservative...
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Quote from: John Shaw
Libman was setting you up. You see, he's a resident troll, which means that while I hate him passionately and wish him great harm, he's ONE OF OURS. You are a pathetic interloper who will fade away in a few weeks at most.

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #238 on: July 14, 2009, 11:34:12 PM »

Conservatives piss me off.
NH is pretty "conservative".  They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.


& turning more liberal by the fucking minute, me friend
seatbelt laws
smoking bans
more taxes on every-fucking-thing
get this, a fucking 9% tax on CAMPSITES, under room & meals....cocksuckers....i bring the fucking room & the meals

Join the campers union.  

You'd still have to pay $20 a week, every week, on top of the tax, but you would be guaranteed a place to camp.  
I didn't realize so many people were paying for campsites.  I don't think I've paid for a campsite since I went to Yosemite like 10 years ago.  Camping is free on BLM land.
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"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #239 on: July 14, 2009, 11:34:36 PM »

Quote
They don't really have many strip clubs, and they have state run liquor stores.

I said conservatives, not conservative places. Lack of strip clubs is always fixable if there's demand. I drink beer, not liquor, and compared to the illegality of selling beer at grocery stores, New Hampshire is actually a bit more lax than where I'm currently at.

That said... When we wanna see cute women dancing nekkid around here, my wife and I head to the West Virginia panhandle which is considered both redneck and conservative...
You take your wife to strip clubs?  Cool woman.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
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