I'm not a porcupine anymore

[fatcat]

BLAH BLAH BLAH. I don't give a shit no more.

Its good that you still have time to post about how much you don't care about the discussion.

I guess constant updating of how much you care shows how much you don't care in a way that just ignoring it just doesn't achieve.

[Hideaki769]

If you think libertarians lying to other libertarians about the opportunities for freedom doesn't matter, then I guess you're right.

*sigh* i'm saying that its redundant cuz your debates with them over the fsp always turns out the same. Whats the point? Their are plenty of pipe dreams why not just let them have a self deluded sense of hope? It's nice to believe in something then nothing at all. It's closest to the most viable for ppl who want to stay in america. Otherwise you got seasteading or another country probably has more freedoms out there.

[BonerJoe]

BLAH BLAH BLAH. I don't give a shit no more.

Its good that you still have time to post about how much you don't care about the discussion.

I guess constant updating of how much you care shows how much you don't care in a way that just ignoring it just doesn't achieve.

Are you still a virgin?

[JWI]

[Hideaki769]

[JWI]

[digitalfour]

fatcat what do you think is the best way to achieve freedom for a society?

[fatcat]

If you think libertarians lying to other libertarians about the opportunities for freedom doesn't matter, then I guess you're right.

*sigh* i'm saying that its redundant cuz your debates with them over the fsp always turns out the same. Whats the point? Their are plenty of pipe dreams why not just let them have a self deluded sense of hope? It's nice to believe in something then nothing at all. It's closest to the most viable for ppl who want to stay in america. Otherwise you got seasteading or another country probably has more freedoms out there.

I've said many times that NH is a fine choice if you don't want to move out of America.

The fact that NH is unlikely to become the libertopia some people believe it will be is another issue.

My main beef is NH libbers constantly parroting the "NH is the only hope" and "Well I take liberty seriously so I'm moving to NH, you can waste your life if you don't want to move" lines.

I was an FSP supporter for many years. It was only through discussion on this very forum, with blackie no less, that I was forced to re-evaluate my unrealistic expectations on New Hampshire, and actually started looking at alternatives, and I found that the canton of Zug had alot of stuff that I was looking for, while immigration for me is equally hard to America or Switzerland.

NH libbers need to stop looking at this shit like a battle. If I'm criticizing you, actually pay attention, don't assume I want to get into your faggot kiddy games about who's got the most special group. I'm not criticizing people who want to move to NH to try and make a difference, I'm critizicing :

A) The misleading, sometimes deliberate misleading of libertarians about the FSP and NH, and what the other options are.
B) The pissy attitude that anyone who isn't on the FSP bandwagon is either wasting their time, or doesn't care about liberty, and should be insulted/ridiculed.

Don't want to move across the Atlantic? Fine. Personal factors are important, which is the main reason I'm not living in Zug right now. Just stop misleading other libertarians to what the reality is. NH is far from perfect, and its far from the only option on the table.

BLAH BLAH BLAH. I don't give a shit no more.

Its good that you still have time to post about how much you don't care about the discussion.

I guess constant updating of how much you care shows how much you don't care in a way that just ignoring it just doesn't achieve.

Are you still a virgin?

yah, you got me. I guess if I spent as much time on this forum as you, telling people how much I don't care about what they're talking about I'd have more luck with sexual relationships.

While you're at it, here are some people who's posts are too long, they're probably waiting for you to tell them what the acceptable length of post is on this forum.

Whats embarrassing here, is that supposedly your meant to not care about what I'm posting, but you're still coming back to reply to me.

I have no problem admitting that I care about the subjects I write about, and that I enjoy writing here on this forum. What's your reason for being here?

you're just the loser who spends his time on this forum bitching about what some other loser you supposedly don't care about.

well, that and pumping out dazzlingly clever one liners like R U A VIRGIN? and UR POSTING TOO LONG!!

[Hideaki769]

Just stop misleading other libertarians to what the reality is. NH is far from perfect, and its far from the only option on the table.

Ur reiterating the concerns I complained to mark about earlier. Hence the redundancy. Mark even agreed. Let them be deluded cuz most likely they'll be too stubborn to realize it themselves and they will have to face the truth eventually or live in denial.


Edit: My bad apparently mark just agreed about slow sign up and changing advertising around or something. Anyways I mentioned about false advertising and misleading people several times from the start.

[fatcat]

Just stop misleading other libertarians to what the reality is. NH is far from perfect, and its far from the only option on the table.

Ur reiterating the concerns I complained to mark about earlier. Hence the redundancy. Mark even agreed. Let them be deluded cuz most likely they'll be too stubborn to realize it themselves and they will have to face the truth eventually or live in denial.

Mark "agreed", but he then went on to say "I tend to agree that if one isn't working towards moving to NH one is probably wasting one's time, if one wants to stand for liberty. I don't see anything that one can do for liberty that is nearly as efficient as moving to NH."

Its not just the nuts who think the states going to collapse at any moment that are a problem. Its reasonable people like Mark, who generally have realistic expectations, but then either deliberately or unknowingly

This whole problem is an unwillingness for libertarians to face facts. What evidence is there that anything is changing for.

This is the basis of all conspiracies. You take a few disparate facts, and weave them together to form a compelling story of your own concoction.

You take something like the failure of the seatbelt bill, maybe the FSP caused it, maybe it didn't, certainly no ones gone any way to prove that it was down to FSPers alone.

But you take that, you take some civ disser going to jail, and you start weaving this picture that this movement is making great progress, and you start to ignore things like.

1. Sign ups have decreased to a rate where it will likely be 2020 or later before the 20,000 figure is reached, and thats assuming all the current sign ups are actually legitimate (which basing that only 7/10th of the First 1000 showed up, the number of members still willing is probably even lower than that).
2. The birth rate of non libertarians in NH is much higher than the rate of immigrant libertarians, meaning that at best FSP movers are merely keeping the % of libertarians the same.
3. Total Taxes will increase next year, controls will increase next year, more laws will be brought in next year.
4. Theres nothing to suggest that the year after that, or the year after that will be any different, besides a bunch of "snowball/critical mass" bullshit that has absolutely nothing to back up if/when it would actually happen.

If NH libbers start to admit that they're fighting a losing battle, (i.e. NH is going to be less free next year than it is this year), then maybe they can start being more realistic about what can actually be achieved, like maybe decriminalizing marijuana like has already been done in some states, or maybe stopping more handgun regulation being brought in.

Of course, this goes against the whole "LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIMES" bullshit that sucked all the cultists in to begin with so theres no way anyone will adopt this over some fantasy bullshit where NH is going to turn into Libertopia if we all believe in it enough.

[BonerJoe]

you're just the loser who spends his time on this forum bitching about what some other loser you supposedly don't care about.

well, that and pumping out dazzlingly clever one liners like R U A VIRGIN? and UR POSTING TOO LONG!!

At least I'm not a virgin.

[Hideaki769]

You can preach as much as you want to me but I'm not disagreeing with you. The people who honestly believe they can get liberty in their lifetime are hopeful and stubborn. You can keep arguing with each one that pops up but in the end Ur debates tend to turn out the same. It just seems pointless cuz once they're backed into a corner its "the only viable option" and "what would you do for freedom" etc. It's your battle though I'm just sayin....

You keep saying you but I'm far from a conspiracy theorist or someone with unrealistic hopes.

[Dylboz]

I still think that Wyoming or Montana would have been far better choices than NH. I'm not sure I believe this ranking that placed it as #1 most free state in America. With a state run liquor business and all those Massholes? What about the property taxes? Anyway, just my opinion, I still signed up, I had actually signed up before NH was chosen.

[blackie]

I think the best libertarians will be able to do is create small communities that are as self-sufficient as possible.

This has the same problem that The Free Town Project has. States control their towns and no freedom can be attained without raising the ire of the State.

Why do you keep saying the Free Town Project has this problem, but you don't think the Free State Project will have the same problem, on a larger scale?

But I guess it depends what you mean by freedom. I don't plan on trying to change laws. I don't plan on informing the state of everything I do. They can't get mad about something if they don't know about it.

I think you would agree that the state with the largest amount of these small communities will be best off.

No, I wouldn't. I would take a quality community over a larger quantity of communities.

What is the cost difference in moving 100 miles vs 1000, not much.

Yes, there is a significant cost difference.  I can do day trips to scout out the new place at 100 miles.  I can rent a truck and make multiple trips in one day at 100 miles.

At 1000 miles I have two days of driving each way, and hotels. Fuel for a truck ain't cheap.

When I paid someone to move my household stuff around 100 miles it cost me $800 for two dudes, a truck and fuel.

The last move I did that was around 2000 miles, the relo cost was over $20,000.

Come start your small self sufficient community in New Hampshire

I don't think the climate is all that great for such a thing. If I was rich, I might sail up and live there during the summer. That would be sweet. I probably have better chances of making that happen than freeing the state of NH.

[Hideaki769]

At least I'm not a virgin.

I'd hate to think of the person or thing that would sleep with you.... *shudders*