I'm not a porcupine anymore

[blackie]

States may not be be sovereign in reality today, but they are supposed to be, there is lots of law on the side of state sovereignty. So, I would like to see what would happen if one of them tried.

Oh, the see what happens plan. Bring your guns.

What you won't acknowledge is that this is the same plan of the rest of the libertarians around the world. "We will talk about liberty and see what happens. I already know the answer: not a f***ing thing.

I will acknowledge that I haven't heard *any* large scale plan that seems viable yet.

I think the best libertarians will be able to do is create small communities that are as self-sufficient as possible.

I don't know much at all about what is going on in Grafton, just what Bob H. or Tim C. say on the boards. Keep in mind that none of those people represent the movers of the project, no one does.

They are both trying to sell Grafton to porcupines. It is in their best interest to exaggerate what is happening in Grafton. They may be able to get some small things done there, but it's not going to turn into Libertopia any time soon.

Would you have asked Louis and Clark what their estimate was of how long it would take them to find the "West"? This is uncharted territory.

Yes. And I would hope they would have one.

and you would have been disappointed. The plan, as I understand it, was go until we find the end, then turn around. It was a huge undertaking, with a simple plan.

But if you can't even make an estimate as to how long something will take, why would you think it is viable?
An estimate doesn't need to be accurate.

Congress appropriated $2,500 for an expedition, so they made an estimate of how much they thought it would cost.

Yes, the plan is move a bunch of libertarians to NH and see what happens. I think our chances are better than any other state's.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean the plan is viable. I guess it all depends what you want the end result to be.

What do you think NH will look like if this plan works?

[Bill Brasky]

I'm way more concerned with the Fed than the state.  And because of that, the specific state means very little to me.  I'll concentrate on the ones that best suit my needs.  Climate and a positive economic condition are my main concerns.  

From there, I move straight to the local level.  Its unwise to live in a county that contains a large city.  

[BonerJoe]

[youtube=425,350]C9PGcMMC4X0[/youtube].

[FTL_Mark]

States may not be be sovereign in reality today, but they are supposed to be, there is lots of law on the side of state sovereignty. So, I would like to see what would happen if one of them tried.

Oh, the see what happens plan. Bring your guns.

What you won't acknowledge is that this is the same plan of the rest of the libertarians around the world. "We will talk about liberty and see what happens. I already know the answer: not a f***ing thing.

I will acknowledge that I haven't heard *any* large scale plan that seems viable yet.

I think the best libertarians will be able to do is create small communities that are as self-sufficient as possible.

This has the same problem that The Free Town Project has. States control their towns and no freedom can be attained without raising the ire of the State. I think you would agree that the state with the largest amount of these small communities will be best off. What is the cost difference in moving 100 miles vs 1000, not much. Come start your small self sufficient community in New Hampshire, it is already the freest state (virtually tied with Colorado, and South Dakota)

I don't know much at all about what is going on in Grafton, just what Bob H. or Tim C. say on the boards. Keep in mind that none of those people represent the movers of the project, no one does.

They are both trying to sell Grafton to porcupines. It is in their best interest to exaggerate what is happening in Grafton. They may be able to get some small things done there, but it's not going to turn into Libertopia any time soon.

Would you have asked Louis and Clark what their estimate was of how long it would take them to find the "West"? This is uncharted territory.

Yes. And I would hope they would have one.

and you would have been disappointed. The plan, as I understand it, was go until we find the end, then turn around. It was a huge undertaking, with a simple plan.

But if you can't even make an estimate as to how long something will take, why would you think it is viable?
An estimate doesn't need to be accurate.

Congress appropriated $2,500 for an expedition, so they made an estimate of how much they thought it would cost.

and Jason Sorens estimated that it would take 20,000 movers to affect the government. So, the creators of both projects estimated some things, and and waited to see how things would turn out.

Yes, the plan is move a bunch of libertarians to NH and see what happens. I think our chances are better than any other state's.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean the plan is viable. I guess it all depends what you want the end result to be.

What do you think NH will look like if this plan works?

All I am hoping for is a government that is limited to cops, courts and roads. maybe some limited zoning (I don't want this, but it doesn't bother me the way marijuana prohabiton and public schools do).

I would say that the FSP has been successful if it reduces taxes in NH by 50%, legalizes marijuana, casinos, and consensual acts between adults. It would be even better if it was converted to the stateside version of the magical land of Zug.

[Bill Brasky]

[youtube=425,350]C9PGcMMC4X0[/youtube].

That made my day. 

[Dylboz]

I signed, and I stand by my signature, but I don't know if I'll ever actually move. If they do indeed get to 20K, I'll live up to my commitment, honor my word, and get my ass up there within 5 years, probably a lot less. I really want to check out the Porcfest and the Liberty Forum, but that may realistically be the closest I ever come to actually moving to NH. Now that Napolitano is in D.C., AZ is getting better, with gun laws relaxing even more (we may very soon have Alaska/Vermont style CC), drug laws no worse than anywhere else (we have twice approved Medi-pot ballot initiatives, and next door New Mexico is going to have legal distribution, so if it works there, chances are good we'll adopt it soon after). The worst thing we have is the damned border. All the Feds and their "Constitution Free Zone" a few miles to the south... Montana or Wyoming would have been better choices, IMHO, but hey, I'm still proud to say I signed up with the FSP.

[Harry Tuttle]

Trust me. I'm going to join in with those who bash the FSP. Just as soon as I see the other plan for freedom succeed. Yep. Day 2, as soon as the other freedom plan succeeds I'm going to launch an anti-FSP tirade such as the world has never seen. Maybe I'll even launch "InyourfaceFSP.com" to hyuck it up at the free-staters. FSP will feel all whipped and battered by my anti-FSP tirade. You just wait and see. Its coming... as soon as the other plan succeeds...

As far as the "freedom in your lifetime" quote. What other freedom is anyone interested in? I mean, are you going to get fired up over freedom in your child's lifetime? If it can't get done in 20-30 years then what makes you think it will ever get done? If you are not seeking freedom in your own lifetime then what exactly is the goal?

[Riddler]

2 things:
1st: fatcat has a hair across his ass, cuz he's a brit (right?) & ''new hampshire'' stole it's name from hampshire, england

2nd: fsp will never work, cuz far more MASSHOLES move across the border & undo anything free staters can hope to accomplish.....bunch-a liberal/socialistic cunts that they are......

(if i'm wrong about 'is nationality, disregard....)

[One two three]

2nd: fsp will never work, cuz far more MASSHOLES move across the border & undo anything free staters can hope to accomplish.....bunch-a liberal/socialistic cunts that they are......

(if i'm wrong about 'is nationality, disregard....)

The Masshole is more about the attitude of some folks from MA than anything else.  Truth is, folks from MA that move to NH often do it because they are in search of more freedom.  And shock, but the border towns with the highest concentrations of former MA residents tend to elect some of the most pro-freedom state representatives in the state.

Instead of Massholes, you are referring more to the people from NY, NJ and the rest of New England that are moving to NH for the white collar jobs and quality of living.  (Un)fortunately,  NH has the highest qualify of living in the US and that's not going to change very much.  As for all of the tech, defense, health and education jobs in NH which attract out of state folks, I don't see that changing either.  NH has a noticeably healthier economy than the rest of the Northeast in part because it is a lot more free and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

[Rebel]

2nd: fsp will never work, cuz far more MASSHOLES move across the border & undo anything free staters can hope to accomplish.....bunch-a liberal/socialistic cunts that they are......

(if i'm wrong about 'is nationality, disregard....)

The Masshole is more about the attitude of some folks from MA than anything else.  Truth is, folks from MA that move to NH often do it because they are in search of more freedom.  And shock, but the border towns with the highest concentrations of former MA residents tend to elect some of the most pro-freedom state representatives in the state.

Instead of Massholes, you are referring more to the people from NY, NJ and the rest of New England that are moving to NH for the white collar jobs and quality of living.  (Un)fortunately,  NH has the highest qualify of living in the US and that's not going to change very much.  As for all of the tech, defense, health and education jobs in NH which attract out of state folks, I don't see that changing either.  NH has a noticeably healthier economy than the rest of the Northeast in part because it is a lot more free and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

I 2nd this guy^

[fatcat]

the numbers are never an issue for anyone that really gives a shit about liberty.  The project is a project to move people.  If they don't make their projected numbers who the fuck cares.

lul.

enjoy your failure.

wait i forgot, the numbers don't matter cause ONE PERSON CAN CHANGE THE WORLD!1!!!!1!!!

[Hideaki769]

Given enough wealth and power I'm sure one person could obtain enough nukes to change the world

[Hideaki769]

the numbers are never an issue for anyone that really gives a shit about liberty.  The project is a project to move people.  If they don't make their projected numbers who the fuck cares.

lul.

enjoy your failure.

wait i forgot, the numbers don't matter cause ONE PERSON CAN CHANGE THE WORLD!1!!!!1!!!

one trick pony

lol both sides are pretty redundant

[fatcat]

the numbers are never an issue for anyone that really gives a shit about liberty.  The project is a project to move people.  If they don't make their projected numbers who the fuck cares.

lul.

enjoy your failure.

wait i forgot, the numbers don't matter cause ONE PERSON CAN CHANGE THE WORLD!1!!!!1!!!

one trick pony

I'm glad you actually went to lengths to prove what I was saying was wrong instead of just spunking out a pithy one liner.


oh wait.

I only ever mention Zug as a response to all the disingenuous assholes who claim that New Hampshire is the only viable/useful opportunity for Libertarians to be free.

100-200 libertarians a year is NOT a statistically significant number. Thousands of people are born in New Hampshire every year, the super majority will never be libertarians and will never support libertarian causes. Anyone who is going to claim most libertarians in New Hampshire don't sign up to the FSP, please show some evidence these libertarians actually exist or don't mention it.


If you think numbers don't matter..... you're an idiot. The most realistic and rational expectation for libertarians moving to New Hampshire is that it will get less free slower than any other state. There's absolutely nothing to back up the idea that New Hampshire will start moving in a libertarian direction, besides a bunch of wishful thinking and self delusion.

Now don't get me wrong, Zug is getting less free aswell, but I'm not misleading people to think Zug is some magical land where a handful of libertarians will start to turn the tide on statism.

Zug is much freer than New Hampshire is now, and it will still be freer in 5 years time, and likely after that.

Either show:

1. New Hampshire is freer than Zug
2. New Hampshire is progressing to freedom faster than anywhere else.
3. New Hampshire is in some other way the only viable place for libertarians to move.

Either that or stop treating anyone who doesn't agree New Hampshire is the only way to go as someone who is either unlibertarian, or isn't going to achieve anything.

New Hampshire is fine if you don't want to move out of America, but saying its the only viable choice and anything else is a waste of time is misleading bullshit, and I'm sick of you fuckers parroting it.

lol both sides are pretty redundant

If you think libertarians lying to other libertarians about the opportunities for freedom doesn't matter, then I guess you're right.

[BonerJoe]

BLAH BLAH BLAH. I don't give a shit no more.