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Author Topic: I'm not a porcupine anymore  (Read 60930 times)

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BonerJoe

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #120 on: July 05, 2009, 04:50:16 PM »

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Evil Muppet

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #121 on: July 05, 2009, 04:57:46 PM »

The seat belt bill would have passed if it weren't for the efforts of Free Staters.  Liberty Alliance did a lot of work in order to put the pressure on a couple of the state senators. 
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Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

digitalfour

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #122 on: July 05, 2009, 05:28:00 PM »

I guess I consider people with money to be the real activists. Not poor people getting locked up in jail for fun.
You don't think we need both?
No. A lot more would get accomplished with people spending money in the right places.
How do we figure out where the right places are?
You ask too many questions.

 :?
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FTL_Mark

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #123 on: July 05, 2009, 06:47:46 PM »

Very special, Mark. I'm here in the NH and won't go anywhere, so the rest are just foolin themselves. Fatcat, enjoy your life wherever you are, too bad you were never part of anything important. Though, I'm sure you have a heartily response or whatever...

yeah, FSP supporters don't have a bad attitude.

Rebel sums up the two worst points perfectly.

1. Anyone who isn't involved or planning to be involved in the NH liberty movement doesn't care about liberty and isn't going to do anything to help liberty.

2. Rejecting any alternate/opposing views on liberty regardless of what they are and what reasons are behind them, and not involving in any actual debate about the issues bar engaging in condescending ego driven bullshit.

As far as Marks comments go

Quote
I certainly don't care what is wrong with the FSP organization, I just want people to sign-up so that I don't have think about the FSP anymore and we can get about the task of making a Freer State

So even though the whole point of the Free State Project is to get libertarians to NH to improve liberty, but you don't care how effective the FSP is at getting libertarians to NH?

Does not compute.


My experience is that the FSP Organization is inefficient and that I trust FTL and other NH Liberty Activists to do recruitment of movers. FTL has grown to somewhere around 500,000 listeners, I think we can handle getting people to move to NH.

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I tend to agree that if one isn't working towards moving to NH one is probably wasting one's time, if one wants to stand for liberty. I don't see anything that one can do for liberty that is nearly as efficient as moving to NH.

Are you disputing that Zug, Switzerland is more free than NH, USA?

How is it wasting my time to want to spend the next 5 years of my place in somewhere I can be free, rather than spending the next 5 years of my life somewhere that is less free, and probably will become less free during those 5 years.

I guess I am ignorant of Zug. Why haven't you moved yet?

The Seat Belt bill being rejected is a ludicrous claim of success. It has been rejected many times before the FSP ever started, and as memory serves the recent vote for seatbelts came as close to succeeding as it has for a long time.

God bless you, but you don't know what the hell you are talking about here. I might add that the NHLA (populated by FSP signers) was instrumental in stopping the last push 2 years ago too, though not as much as this time.

Zug has been getting freer for the past 10 years (taxes down, drug laws more liberal). Why is it a waste of time for a Libertarian to move somewhere they can have more liberty? If there were 20,000 people in North Korea starting a FSP would I be wasting my time by not joining there?

While I'm happy to accept that NH is a fine choice of habitat if you don't want to leave the US, apparently you and people like Rebel aren't happy to accept there are any other possibilities that aren't a "waste of time", no matter what the reality is, and are condescending pricks while your doing it.

I have been accused of this generally and specifically before. I have tried to be honest here, without being condescending. I guess I failed, sorry about that.
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No one has conjectured that I could quite possibly be a Libertarian posing as an Anarchist trying to pretend to still be a Libertarian; or what I like to call an Anarcho-Hustler.

BonerJoe

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #124 on: July 05, 2009, 06:54:08 PM »

The seat belt bill would have passed if it weren't for the efforts of Free Staters.  Liberty Alliance did a lot of work in order to put the pressure on a couple of the state senators. 

Apparently the smoking ban wasn't that big of a deal.
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digitalfour

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #125 on: July 05, 2009, 07:11:57 PM »

I'm still waiting to hear where the right places to send the money are.
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BonerJoe

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #126 on: July 05, 2009, 07:22:10 PM »

I'm still waiting to hear where the right places to send the money are.

My corporation.
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blackie

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #127 on: July 05, 2009, 07:24:09 PM »

States may not be be sovereign in reality today, but they are supposed to be, there is lots of law on the side of state sovereignty. So, I would like to see what would happen if one of them tried.
Oh, the see what happens plan. Bring your guns.

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I don't know what the Fed would do, but I would hope that they wouldn't just turn guns on peaceful people.
They already do that.

Quote
It is my understanding that Grafton is largely taken over. Porcupines are all in the govt there.
I don't consider taking a few mainly volunteer positions as "taking over".

What has changed?
Has the UN free zone passed?
Is there still a planning board?

It was kind of funny when John Babiarz took over as fire cheif, then requested a bunch of money for new equipment at the next vote.


Would you have asked Louis and Clark what their estimate was of how long it would take them to find the "West"? This is uncharted territory.
Yes. And I would hope they would have one.
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blackie

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #128 on: July 05, 2009, 07:34:36 PM »

1) Is the Liberty Movement in NH the best? I wouldn't for sure, but I see alot of activity here. I do believe it is the easiest for US citizens to get involved with.
You see a lot of activity because that is where you are, and the people you hang out with. The easiest place for a US citizen to get involved is where they are right now.
I see activity here because I am here AND there is activity to see. I was in Sarasota, Fla. (one of the lowest tax burdens in the US) and I saw crapola. I suspect that is what you see where you are and what most libertarians see where they are.
When I was in NH, I didn't see any FSP activity unless I was looking for it.


Quote
You don't think 6 State House members shows viablity?
Not really. And can you really claim 6 state house members if you can't name them?
If you can't name them, you might as well claim 100 state house members.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 07:40:06 PM by blackie »
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digitalfour

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #129 on: July 05, 2009, 07:41:27 PM »

I'm still waiting to hear where the right places to send the money are.
My corporation.

You should promote it.
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BonerJoe

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #130 on: July 05, 2009, 07:55:35 PM »

I'm still waiting to hear where the right places to send the money are.
My corporation.

You should promote it.

I don't want my plan to die before it ever gets off the ground.
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FTL_Mark

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #131 on: July 05, 2009, 08:04:11 PM »

States may not be be sovereign in reality today, but they are supposed to be, there is lots of law on the side of state sovereignty. So, I would like to see what would happen if one of them tried.
Oh, the see what happens plan. Bring your guns.

What you won't acknowledge is that this is the same plan of the rest of the libertarians around the world. "We will talk about liberty and see what happens. I already know the answer: not a f***ing thing.

Quote
I don't know what the Fed would do, but I would hope that they wouldn't just turn guns on peaceful people.
They already do that.

Quote
It is my understanding that Grafton is largely taken over. Porcupines are all in the govt there.
I don't consider taking a few mainly volunteer positions as "taking over".

What has changed?
Has the UN free zone passed?
Is there still a planning board?

It was kind of funny when John Babiarz took over as fire cheif, then requested a bunch of money for new equipment at the next vote.
That doesn't sound real libertarian. I would oppose that request and if I thought it the right thing to do, oppose the man. I don't know much at all about what is going on in Grafton, just what Bob H. or Tim C. say on the boards. Keep in mind that none of those people represent the movers of the project, no one does.

Would you have asked Louis and Clark what their estimate was of how long it would take them to find the "West"? This is uncharted territory.
Yes. And I would hope they would have one.
and you would have been disappointed. The plan, as I understand it, was go until we find the end, then turn around. It was a huge undertaking, with a simple plan.

Yes, the plan is move a bunch of libertarians to NH and see what happens. I think our chances are better than any other state's.
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No one has conjectured that I could quite possibly be a Libertarian posing as an Anarchist trying to pretend to still be a Libertarian; or what I like to call an Anarcho-Hustler.

digitalfour

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #132 on: July 05, 2009, 08:21:46 PM »

I'm still waiting to hear where the right places to send the money are.
My corporation.
You should promote it.
I don't want my plan to die before it ever gets off the ground.

Sounds like a catch 22.
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Evil Muppet

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #133 on: July 05, 2009, 08:36:32 PM »

I'm still waiting to hear where the right places to send the money are.

My corporation.

Your mother is a corporation
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Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

BonerJoe

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Re: I'm not a porcupine anymore
« Reply #134 on: July 05, 2009, 08:39:01 PM »

I'm still waiting to hear where the right places to send the money are.

My corporation.

Your mother is a corporation

No, she's a fuckin' bitch.
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