I'm not a porcupine anymore

[Hideaki769]

Sure, it will take a while to have huge success here in NH, but we can show real victories. If you don't want to see them, that is your option.

Dont get me wrong I love the idea of the FSP and it would be great if it worked. But realistically it sure as hell not gonna be in our lifetime. It's going to take a long while and while you've had some small real victories it isn't stopping them from restricting or creating every restraint on freedom they come out with. Now if you created a standstill on laws being passed while reverting other laws I might change my opinion some. But who knows what the future holds. I remember hearing about FSP years ago when I was in HS listening to FTL for the first time. It's been a while and really not much progress for such a large time span.

[kalmia]

I think it will likely reach a tipping point.  I don't know when that will be, but I think there are a lot of people who will be willing to move or agree to move once there are enough people already there and doing stuff.

Being around the people there is likely one of the best immediate benefits.

[Hideaki769]

I think it will likely reach a tipping point.  I don't know when that will be, but I think there are a lot of people who will be willing to move or agree to move once there are enough people already there and doing stuff.

Being around the people there is likely one of the best immediate benefits.

We could all hope and pray there is a huge breaking point in the government but that can't be foreseen. As it stands now things dont look to good. I think that would be the only tipping point to speed things up immensely.

[JWI]

I think it will likely reach a tipping point.  I don't know when that will be, but I think there are a lot of people who will be willing to move or agree to move once there are enough people already there and doing stuff.

Being around the people there is likely one of the best immediate benefits.

We could all hope and pray there is a huge breaking point in the government but that can't be foreseen. As it stands now things dont look to good. I think that would be the only tipping point to speed things up immensely.

That tipping point is a long ways off.  Half of the voters believe they can "control" government by "holding the line".  No matter how bad it gets these people will continue to fight to win popularity contests so they can hold the line on taxes and fool themselves into thinking that things are getting better.

They won't do anything unless something very drastic happens (banning guns?) but even then I think they'll fight for votes in order to win popularity contests so they can undo the damage...or at least make promises about undoing the damage.

[FTL_Mark]

Sure, it will take a while to have huge success here in NH, but we can show real victories. If you don't want to see them, that is your option.

Dont get me wrong I love the idea of the FSP and it would be great if it worked. But realistically it sure as hell not gonna be in our lifetime. It's going to take a long while and while you've had some small real victories it isn't stopping them from restricting or creating every restraint on freedom they come out with. Now if you created a standstill on laws being passed while reverting other laws I might change my opinion some. But who knows what the future holds. I remember hearing about FSP years ago when I was in HS listening to FTL for the first time. It's been a while and really not much progress for such a large time span.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape on the Liberty in Our Lifetimes byline. It is marketing. I mean what is liberty? Who's lifetime? We certainly haven't stopped the growth of government here, but we only have 700 movers. What will happen when we have 7000? It will take a while for people to move here, get established, make their mistakes and begin having an affect. The FSP is an effed up mess, but it is a world better than most places and I believe it is headed in the right direction.

[Hideaki769]

They won't do anything unless something very drastic happens (banning guns?)

You're kidding right? It's drastic but i think it'll "all be safer for the kids". Ignorant masses will put up with it. They want their children to be safe. Doesnt england have a ban on guns?

[JWI]

They won't do anything unless something very drastic happens (banning guns?)

You're kidding right? It's drastic but i think it'll "all be safer for the kids". Ignorant masses will put up with it. They want their children to be safe. Doesnt england have a ban on guns?

I don't know, I give the pro-2nd amendment people a little more credit than that.  In the end I think you're right though.  They see some "common sense" law or ban and then try to tinker within those parameters.  Meanwhile they'll send some fundraising letters from the NRA screaming about gun rights, people will send in a lot of money.....and nothing will change.

[Hideaki769]

Sure, it will take a while to have huge success here in NH, but we can show real victories. If you don't want to see them, that is your option.

Dont get me wrong I love the idea of the FSP and it would be great if it worked. But realistically it sure as hell not gonna be in our lifetime. It's going to take a long while and while you've had some small real victories it isn't stopping them from restricting or creating every restraint on freedom they come out with. Now if you created a standstill on laws being passed while reverting other laws I might change my opinion some. But who knows what the future holds. I remember hearing about FSP years ago when I was in HS listening to FTL for the first time. It's been a while and really not much progress for such a large time span.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape on the Liberty in Our Lifetimes byline. It is marketing. I mean what is liberty? Who's lifetime? We certainly haven't stopped the growth of government here, but we only have 700 movers. What will happen when we have 7000? It will take a while for people to move here, get established, make their mistakes and begin having an affect. The FSP is an effed up mess, but it is a world better than most places and I believe it is headed in the right direction.

You're completely right it is a marketing line but it's false marketing. As catchy as the phrase is I'd rather have people going there with a realistic understanding and not have some sort of deluded sense about it all. I think if you get to 7000 that'd be great and things would start to get rolling and be far more effective but your talking about 10x what you have now if those numbers are exact on movers. How old is the FSP now? 8years? I really do hope it works and i'll probably move eventually myself just so I can be around like minded ppl. To have my next of kin growing around a society that has that understanding would be great in my opinion. I think there will be a lot more hope in there lifetime then there ever will be in mine.

[Hideaki769]

They won't do anything unless something very drastic happens (banning guns?)

You're kidding right? It's drastic but i think it'll "all be safer for the kids". Ignorant masses will put up with it. They want their children to be safe. Doesnt england have a ban on guns?

I don't know, I give the pro-2nd amendment people a little more credit than that.  In the end I think you're right though.  They see some "common sense" law or ban and then try to tinker within those parameters.  Meanwhile they'll send some fundraising letters from the NRA screaming about gun rights, people will send in a lot of money.....and nothing will change.

i think there are like 4million NRA members? The census on americas population is at some 300million... I'm sure the NRA has stopped guns from being banned outright but they havent managed to stop every restriction on guns america has put forth so far.

[DontTreadOnMike]

Like I said, I'm not disillusioned with the FSP or anything so if that tipping point comes, I'll definitely move. I plan to jump out in front of the parade and pretend I was there the whole time. And you can all call me a posuer at porcfest...until you try my homebrew. Then you'll be glad I decided to come

[FTL_Mark]

Sure, it will take a while to have huge success here in NH, but we can show real victories. If you don't want to see them, that is your option.

Dont get me wrong I love the idea of the FSP and it would be great if it worked. But realistically it sure as hell not gonna be in our lifetime. It's going to take a long while and while you've had some small real victories it isn't stopping them from restricting or creating every restraint on freedom they come out with. Now if you created a standstill on laws being passed while reverting other laws I might change my opinion some. But who knows what the future holds. I remember hearing about FSP years ago when I was in HS listening to FTL for the first time. It's been a while and really not much progress for such a large time span.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape on the Liberty in Our Lifetimes byline. It is marketing. I mean what is liberty? Who's lifetime? We certainly haven't stopped the growth of government here, but we only have 700 movers. What will happen when we have 7000? It will take a while for people to move here, get established, make their mistakes and begin having an affect. The FSP is an effed up mess, but it is a world better than most places and I believe it is headed in the right direction.

You're completely right it is a marketing line but it's false marketing. As catchy as the phrase is I'd rather have people going there with a realistic understand and not have some sort of deluded sense about it all. I think if you get to 7000 that'd be great and things would start to get rolling and be far more effective but your talking about 10x what you have now if those numbers are exact on movers. How old is the FSP now? 8years? I really do hope it works and i'll probably move eventually myself just so I can be around like minded ppl. To have my next of kin growing around a society that has that understanding would be great in my opinion. I think there will be a lot more hope in there lifetime then there ever will be in mine.

Sure it has taken awhile to get where we are. If nothing changed I would expect the rate to stay the same. But things have changed and continue to change.

Things that have changed:
1. We are having some success, enough success to convince *some* people to move.
2. FTL is growing. We have been the #1 recruiter for the FSP for a couple/few years. When we are on 100's of stations we will be attracting *alot* more people.

[FTL_Mark]

Like I said, I'm not disillusioned with the FSP or anything so if that tipping point comes, I'll definitely move. I plan to jump out in front of the parade and pretend I was there the whole time. And you can all call me a posuer at porcfest...until you try my homebrew. Then you'll be glad I decided to come

I meant to say: You are a Porcupine as long as you have signed the Statement of Intent.

[FTL_Mark]

the deadline to get the first 1000 by end of 2008 failed.

This is false.

[fatcat]

the deadline to get the first 1000 by end of 2008 failed.

This is false.

huh?

I guess my comprehension skills must be fucked

From the First 1000 pledge on pledgebank.com.

"I will move to New Hampshire by 12/31/2008 where I will work to bring about a society in which government’s maximum role is protecting life, liberty, and property but only if 999 other liberty minded individuals will do the same."

Deadline to sign up by: 31st December 2006
1,030 people signed up (31 over target)

Maybe my calendar is wrong. the FSP website says there are 720 movers. its now in the last half of 2009.

Getting people to sign up to do something != them actually doing it.

But hey, why break the lifelong habit of spinning the FSP in the best possible light no matter what.

The deadline to get 20,000 signers went and gone and that was swept under the carpet expertly.

[Rebel]

fatcat, sometimes people have unexpected things that come up in life which delay their plans. All I know is that me moving here from Michigan has helped me a lot, both financially and socially. I respect your decision to stay where you are, just don't trash others who feel differently. What really attracted me make the move other than more freedom was the Drama thread. It's going down in history as pure legendary.