Not trying to make the FSP look good. But in my experience of trying to get people to sign ballot petitions. Many won't sign because they think it will wrongly or rightly make them a target. However, when election time rolled around the vote totals were higher than the signature requirement. I would assume if there are ever any Libertarianisk ballot initiatives that are successful it might just be a result of silent movers. It is also possible these people are putting extra pressure on representatives the old fashioned way of writing or phone calls. You are right that their totals can't be gauged accurately but by the same token they shouldn't be entirely dismissed either.
I'm not saying there aren't any silent movers, I'm just saying that its unlikely they make up any significant proportion, and should not be used to argue that the FSP is doing better than it actually is.
Surely if these silent movers represent any significant number, they're number would be rather easy to gauge using other methods.
Sure they don't sign the FSP pledge, but if they're moving to NH for liberty, surely they must be active in some manner?
I highly encourage NH libbers to get numbers on this. Who's going to meetings? Social sundays? NHLA? etc. Surely it wouldn't be that hard to make a quick headcount of people turning up at court rooms for liberty who haven't signed? I don't hold much hope on this being done however as it removes the handy "there could be hundreds of silent movers!" argument from the belt, if it actually turns out theres only 12 silent movers.
If they're not active enough to turn up to any activism, do they really matter that much as a "silent mover".
I would be very surprised if silent movers made up more than 1% of total NH lib movers.I don't think Mark has denied that there is anything happening anywhere else. He just says that he hasn't seen it.
"Does one care about liberty if one doesn't move to NH. I tend to agree that if one isn't working towards moving to NH one is probably wasting one's time, if one wants to stand for liberty." - FTL_MarkMark, the co-host of a very large libertarian radio show has stated that anything but the FSP is a waste of time.
Lets eschew this idea that the FSP is "doing something" shall we? NH is getting less free, USA is getting less free, thats not progress. You don't get to take failure now, and spin it to mean you will succeed in the future. The FSP is (slowly) growing in numbers (slower than the birth rate and immigration of non libertarians), thats it. Call it progress if you want, but if NH government is getting bigger I don't class that as success.
The idea that "NH has a movement so places without a movement aren't as good" is idiotic. Currently the FSP has done nothing to increase freedoms in NH. At best it has slightly slowed the increase of government.
What is the point of promoting Zug if you are not promoting people move there?
Zug is unfeasible because it is another country, which I think basically means you cannot cause political change. Even if you can successfully pay to get there, and become a citizen, you will always be viewed as a foreigner and thus cannot have the same impact as against Americans. Am I just way off base on this? Can you even be elected? Does Zug really have a better chance of complete liberty than NH?
I have never suggested that moving to Zug will ever lead to complete liberty. I have mentioned on many occasions that it is likely to get less free. You seem to have adopted a bizarre all or nothing attitude to freedom. While NH continues to become less free, there is very little appeal for me to go there. When I move to Zug, I am not limited, if NH starts to look better I will gladly move.
I have never once suggested a political migration campaign to Zug.
I suggest Zug as a place for libertarians to move because its one of the freest places in the world, and probably the freest if you want to live somewhere with lots of english speakers and a high quality of life.
As a libertarian I was happy when someone told me about the low taxes and high freedoms available in Zug, and I am now extended the same courtesy. I don't mention Zug because I have some vested Ponzi-scheme interest in getting people to move, I mention it because its one of the freest places in the world and there are people who might want to move there if they knew about it.
FYI I happen to live in the UK, so both America and Switzerland are "foreign" countries to me. In fact im not sure why you keep bringing that up like its some act of cowardice to move to a country where you can be more free.
If what you say is true then I can't do anything as a foreigner in either America or Switzerland, so I might aswell go to the one I will be most free in. Although I'm sure you'll find a reason why NH is still actually a better choice.
Also Switzerland has becoming freer in many areas in the last 10-20 years, 20 years ago prostitution wasn't legal, now it is, 20 years ago heroin users we're jailed, now they're put in treatment programs (not ideal but better than imprisonment), 20 years ago cannabis was mainly an underground market, now there are hundreds of stores that sell cannabis. Zug is also much smaller, with a population of only 100,000 people, and has greater autonomy from the federal government, so if I was going to suggest a political migration scheme (which i think is a bad idea) Zug would seem a much better choice.
Saying all this I believe Zug is likely to become less free in the next 10-20 years. Gun regulation will likely increase, taxes will likely increase (not significantly at the canton level, but very likely at the federal level), medical regulation will increase (Switzerland already has a mandatory insurance scheme).
After reading more carefully over the rest of your post I understand you don't care about complete liberty, you just want greater short term liberty.
Obviously you didn't read closely enough:
"Short Term : Move to Zug, Switzerland.
Long Term : Move to a Seastead"
Neither of which achieve freedom for a society.
The seastead is a society, dummy. Frankly, if I can be totally free I don't care if you call it a society or not.
I then went to explain that I'd be much better off in Switzerland for both long and short term where I would be taxed less, and could put more money towards seasteading with the money I get to keep.
Well I'm a libertarian too, and I kind of care about living somewhere that has a chance of becoming libertopia. You can say all you want about no evidence to suggest NH becoming it, but I know of no other place that even has a chance. Perhaps seasteading, but that doesn't exist yet so one can't move there.
So instead of providing any evidence that NH could become "libertopia", you're just going to say nowhere else has a chance? What makes you think NH has a chance?
All of your arguments for while NH will work amount to "WHAT IF IT WORKS?!" "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE!", which as an grossly unrealistic attitude. What if next year the government collapses and everyone starts a life of voluntaryism?
All evidence shows that the US as a whole is getting less free and NH is getting less free.
5 years ago you could have said the same thing, but look, here we are, 5 years later and we're less free than we were before, and I would strongly suspect it will be the same another 5 years from now.
I won't deny that Zug or seasteading may be better, but is there any movement in Zug? And how long until seasteading can accept mass migration? You don't have to live out your last days in New Hampshire. There is a movement in parts of New Hampshire. You can go there and get involved and then move on to something better when it comes along.
That's exactly my attitude. Except I don't believe that NH is likely to get any freer in the next 20 years, regardless of the FSPs efforts.
As I've said in the past,
I think NH is a great idea if you just want to be around other libertarians, live in one of the freest US states, and maybe influence NH to be slightly freer (decrim cannabis seems a realistic goal in the next 5-10 years to me) but all the LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIMES EVERYTHING ELSE IS A WASTE OF TIME hero stuff is grossly unrealistic and disingenuous.