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Alex Libman

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Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« on: April 22, 2009, 12:58:42 AM »

Earlier today, in a thread about an "animal rights" terrorist, I have made and defended the argument that even non-violent advocacy of "animal rights" is an immoral act that results in reduction in economic growth, decline in human life expectancy growth, and thus billions of people dying earlier than they otherwise would have through no fault of their own.

But I'm not done yet.  I also believe that the very act of pet ownership should be viewed as immoral, and people who exhibit irrational emotional attachment to animals should be ostracized - much like racists, child abusers, and demographic thieves who don't reproduce nor pay their "childless tax".

Now it's very important that we don't go too far with this - only recreational forms of pet ownership are immoral.  There's nothing wrong with using animals for a rational purpose, like scientific experiments that will benefit mankind.  It's still OK to eat your animals, but keep in mind that the little fuckers will try to poison you with their cholesterol as their final act of revenge.  It is an open question whether images and toys that simulate the effect of pet ownership should be made taboo as well - in my opinion kitty porn and all the Japanese kawaisa crap is just as bad as the real thing!

The animal threat has attacked us in the one place that hurts the most: reproduction.  See, the human emotion of pity has been developed by evolution (aka nature / God / gods / etc) to encourage human beings to take care of human babies, even if they were not theirs.  That constitutes an objective evolutionary advantage: human babies that are cute enough are definitely worth saving.  Unfortunately, a group of villainous impostors have hijacked that emotion for their benefit, and are using it to the determent of our entire species!  You may think of those parasites as fuzzy wuzzy little doggies and kitties, but they in fact constitute the greatest external threat ever faced by the human race!  They infiltrate our families, taking the role of children, and thus discourage people from having more human children instead!

We thought we've learned to outsmart our foremost enemies of 10,000 years BC -- lions and tigers and bears -- but, oh my - there's one right there in your living room playing with a ball of string!  Don't let their disguises fool you, on the inside they're still the same.  They may purr and rub up against your leg and and even catch mice, but if you stop feeding them they will attack you, or chew your face off while you sleep!

How can the human race sabotage its potential in such ways?!  How can logical beings act so illogically, neglecting their individual desire for life and the future of their children?  There's only one logical answer - we must have been compromised from the outside.  Animals have brainwashed us and made us their slaves!

Hundreds of billions of dollars a year are wasted on pets and pet-related activities, and proximity to those deceiving fiends results in them somehow brainwashing human beings to do their bidding for them.  Nicotine, crack cocaine, and crystal meth all pail in comparison to the addiction of animal companionship!  Some pet victims have been known to talk about their pets nonstop and post pictures of them on the Internet, thus trying to spread their infection to others!

Hundreds of billions, possibly trillions of dollars a year are also lost from the human economy as a side-effect of the "animal rights" agenda: regulation and outright bans on medical experiments that could have raised your life expectancy to 200 years and beyond!  Is it possible to grow rejection-proof replacement organs for a human being inside of a pig?  Hell yes, but the "animal rights" Nazis won't hear of it!  Can much be learned on how to save human lives by breeding millions of gorillas for head transplant experiments?  There's only one way to find out, but all the red tape you have to go through to kill just one gorilla makes that completely impossible.

Once infected, pet junkies begin to lose all of their rational egoism and fail to identify with their own species.  Sure, we're all individuals, but when it comes to some things all human beings are in the same boat.  After all, only human beings are capable of being rational economic actors -- to reason, to respect the rights of other human beings, and to take responsibility for one's actions -- and thus contribute to the world economy.  Animals don't contribute anything to the economy except as a natural resource.  Human beings should focus on their own reproduction, and, if needed, build robots to bring them their newspaper and slippers and roll over on demand.

The human race is facing a bleak future unless we repent quickly: declining birth rates, shrinking global economy, and misguided efforts to deindustrialize and shift the course of civilization in reverse toward a dark age from which we may never recover!  We can't be doing this to ourselves, someone else has to be pulling the strings, manipulating the human race toward its destruction!

I call on all rational beings everywhere to abandon the mental illness known as "pet ownership" before it is too late!  Please, for the love of life and all good things that are possible in it, please - kill every animal that you own!  Now.  Right now, before their wickedness causes you to lose your resolve.  Then post pictures / video here to help encourage others.  You can do this.  I am counting on you.  Reason must triumph over emotion!  Though it may be a long twilight struggle against our furry overlords, through your heroic act, someday, perhaps within our lifetimes - HUMANITY WILL PREVAIL!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 01:11:58 AM by Alex Libman »
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JWI

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 01:09:03 AM »

Shut the fuck up Libman.
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Alex Libman

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 01:14:17 AM »

So "Jay"...  my suspicions about you are finally verified!

You can't fool me!  I know exactly what you are!


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Dylboz

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 02:08:56 AM »

Eat shit and die you fucking douche-bag. You're an asshole who doesn't know shit from shinola when it comes to pets. I hope you choke on a fucking chunk of steak and die because no one wants to save your lousy butt because they're too busy with their beloved animal friends. You're a hypocrite, you think animals are merely property, so you have no reason whatever to criticize what I do with my animal property, including forming an emotional attachment to them. And you want to fuck robots! I really hope that you fall in a well and Lassie refuses to go get help for you. In fact, I hope Timmy takes a leak on your drowning face. Dick.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 02:11:15 AM by Dylboz »
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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 02:16:47 AM »

Eat shit and die you fucking douche-bag. You're an asshole who doesn't know shit from shinola when it comes to pets. I hope you choke on a fucking chunk of steak and die because no one wants to save your lousy butt because they're too busy with their beloved animal friends. You're a hypocrite, you think animals are merely property, so you have no reason whatever to criticize what I do with my animal property, including forming an emotional attachment to them. And you want to fuck robots! I really hope that you fall in a well and Lassie refuses to go get help for you. In fact, I hope Timmy takes a leak on your drowning face. Dick.

Never mind Libman.

You see, it's all about me. He doesn't like that I talk about my cats on the BBS, so he's decided to adopt this dumb stance in hopes that I'll get pissed off about it.

I'm kind of a big deal, you see.

Maybe I should make a thread about my cats.
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atomiccat

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 02:52:02 AM »

Eat shit and die you fucking douche-bag. You're an asshole who doesn't know shit from shinola when it comes to pets. I hope you choke on a fucking chunk of steak and die because no one wants to save your lousy butt because they're too busy with their beloved animal friends. You're a hypocrite, you think animals are merely property, so you have no reason whatever to criticize what I do with my animal property, including forming an emotional attachment to them. And you want to fuck robots! I really hope that you fall in a well and Lassie refuses to go get help for you. In fact, I hope Timmy takes a leak on your drowning face. Dick.

Never mind Libman.

You see, it's all about me. He doesn't like that I talk about my cats on the BBS, so he's decided to adopt this dumb stance in hopes that I'll get pissed off about it.

I'm kind of a big deal, you see.

Maybe I should make a thread about my cats.

This and Libman is in favor of eugenics and is a Damn Neo libertarian fascist

TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 07:56:42 AM »

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Alex Libman

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 08:09:35 AM »

[...]  I hope you choke on a fucking chunk of steak [...]

I'm trying to go vegan again, for health reasons obviously.  It's been a few years since I came to believe that a vegan diet would be beneficial for a fat ass like me, given my particular family history of heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and all that.  (Stupid inbred Jews!)  I went vegan for ~5 weeks last year, then stopped.  The main reason why I always stop: I get pissed off at the "animal rights" idiots, which all vegan resources are filled with, and my rational repugnance toward them irrationally overrules my desire to improve my health.  :x


[...] and die because no one wants to save your lousy butt because they're too busy with their beloved animal friends [...]

No one has an obligation to save me in that scenario.  And I do hope that advances in technology will make it easier for victims of choking and falling into wells to effectively save themselves.  (Patents pending.)  Most things that animals do for humanity, robots and other technological advances can do better.  And if for now this isn't true for some things, then uses of animals for those purposes (i.e. scent dogs, guide dogs for the blind, etc) are perfectly rational.  Though ultimately I do believe technology can replace them entirely.


[...] And you want to fuck robots!  [...]

Well, not all robots.  And not to the determent of my obligation to contribute to human reproduction, which would be just as bad.  See, this is why the "childless tax" is so great, it legitimizes all sorts of sexual minorities while leaving the breeding to the experts (i.e. there naturally would be competition between various families to receive funds to have children).


[...] you think animals are merely property, so you have no reason whatever to criticize what I do with my animal property [...]

First of all, I've never advocated government or any other force in dealing with race traitors (pet owners), I've just made the case why rational egoists like me shouldn't own pets, and should avoid people that do.  This is no different than when some person is exercising his / her free speech or rights as a parent in a way that is contrary to your moral framework, and so you avoid that person.  I've made my case on why it is a moral negative - how you integrate that argument into your own moral framework is up to you.

Second of all, it isn't my problem if you don't know self-parody when you see it.  The reasons why pet ownership can be harmful are serious, but here I amplify them to the point of obvious absurdity.  I don't really expect everyone reading this to get rid of their pets ASAP, I'm just giving people something to ponder about.  I realize I sound like an asshole when I present this rational idea, so I make fun of myself in the process.  You can't sue The Onion for doing what they do.  And, believe it or not, Jonathan Swift didn't really want people to eat babies...  You might be surprised by that one.

Third, work to get over your emotional attachment.  Seriously.


[...] You see, it's all about me [...]

You are delusional.  Go post something that everybody likes to fulfill your need for attention.  I am on this BBS with a rational agenda to test and expand new ideas, which often requires doing the very opposite.  Deal with it - ideally by ignoring me, since you never have anything intelligent to contribute anyway.  Which can be expected from someone with no kids and a zillion cats.


[...] Libman is in favor of eugenics and is a Damn Neo libertarian fascist

What you call "eugenics" I call parents' rights.  What, you don't believe that parents have the right to use whatever methods they find effective to have smarter and healthier children?

And calling me (or Ayn Rand, or Ian Freeman, etc) a "fascist" is childish.  For people ignorant of political philosophy and history, this word has simply come to mean "mean person" or "not an altruist".  For rational people that word has a specific meaning, and it is the very opposite of the philosophy I advocate.

And BTW, no one loves "animal rights" more than the Nazis!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 11:04:36 AM by Alex Libman »
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hayenmill

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 08:55:41 AM »

Quote
Now it's very important that we don't go too far with this - only recreational forms of pet ownership are immoral.  There's nothing wrong with using animals for a rational purpose, like scientific experiments that will benefit mankind.  It's still OK to eat your animals, but keep in mind that the little fuckers will try to poison you with their cholesterol as their final act of revenge.  It is an open question whether images and toys that simulate the effect of pet ownership should be made taboo as well - in my opinion kitty porn and all the Japanese kawaisa crap is just as bad as the real thing!

I have been a vegetarian for a year now, mostly because of moral and practical issues. I simply do not eat any animal that has a well-developed brain capable of at least recognizing pain, since I do not wish to make my everyday survival depend on the suffering of others and because i find there are enough alternatives for us to stop eating, sort of like fur coats are viewed today.

That said, I have nothing wrong with people using pets for scientific experiments that better our lives, but i do oppose eating on the bases of what i've mentioned before. As for images and toys, they are just that, images and toys, and i don't think there should be any more importance to give it.

Quote
The animal threat has attacked us in the one place that hurts the most: reproduction.  See, the human emotion of pity has been developed by evolution (aka nature / God / gods / etc) to encourage human beings to take care of human babies, even if they were not theirs.  That constitutes an objective evolutionary advantage: human babies that are cute enough are definitely worth saving.  Unfortunately, a group of villainous impostors have hijacked that emotion for their benefit, and are using it to the determent of our entire species!  You may think of those parasites as fuzzy wuzzy little doggies and kitties, but they in fact constitute the greatest external threat ever faced by the human race!  They infiltrate our families, taking the role of children, and thus discourage people from having more human children instead!

I hope you are joking about this. I agree with the whole "we-ve have a nature of empathy" shit, but the rest is just not true. They have no conscious desire to "exterminate" our species. And what is wrong with discouraging someone through voluntary means that they should not have any more children? Is it not a personal question? If people want to have copies of themselves or not its up to them, but they must deal with the consequences of either choice.

Anyway, in modern cities there is already plenty of discouragement for people to stop having babies, and thats good, because otherwise the human population would really have an exponential growth, which we may now think we are in, but i believe population will stabilize and even decrease as technology and modern society advances.

Quote
  They may purr and rub up against your leg and and even catch mice, but if you stop feeding them they will attack you, or chew your face off while you sleep!

lol. It happens with every animal. If you stop feeding it he'll know he cant rely on you anymore for food and will proceed to feed himself. He doesn't necessarily have to attack you, but he will be so desperate for food he'll do anything for it, pretty much like humans also do.

Quote
How can the human race sabotage its potential in such ways?!  How can logical beings act so illogically, neglecting their individual desire for life and the future of their children?  There's only one logical answer - we must have been compromised from the outside.  Animals have brainwashed us and made us their slaves!

ok, i get it...this really IS  a joke thread. Shame you have made me spend so much time typing already.

You sir, has just lost -1 in credibility and rationality

Hundreds of billions of dollars a year are wasted on pets and pet-related activities, and proximity to those deceiving fiends results in them somehow brainwashing human beings to do their bidding for them.  Nicotine, crack cocaine, and crystal meth all pail in comparison to the addiction of animal companionship!  Some pet victims have been known to talk about their pets nonstop and post pictures of them on the Internet, thus trying to spread their infection to others!

Hundreds of billions, possibly trillions of dollars a year are also lost from the human economy as a side-effect of the "animal rights" agenda: regulation and outright bans on medical experiments that could have raised your life expectancy to 200 years and beyond!  Is it possible to grow rejection-proof replacement organs for a human being inside of a pig?  Hell yes, but the "animal rights" Nazis won't hear of it!  Can much be learned on how to save human lives by breeding millions of gorillas for head transplant experiments?  There's only one way to find out, but all the red tape you have to go through to kill just one gorilla makes that completely impossible.

Once infected, pet junkies begin to lose all of their rational egoism and fail to identify with their own species.  Sure, we're all individuals, but when it comes to some things all human beings are in the same boat.  After all, only human beings are capable of being rational economic actors -- to reason, to respect the rights of other human beings, and to take responsibility for one's actions -- and thus contribute to the world economy.  Animals don't contribute anything to the economy except as a natural resource.  Human beings should focus on their own reproduction, and, if needed, build robots to bring them their newspaper and slippers and roll over on demand.

The human race is facing a bleak future unless we repent quickly: declining birth rates, shrinking global economy, and misguided efforts to deindustrialize and shift the course of civilization in reverse toward a dark age from which we may never recover!  We can't be doing this to ourselves, someone else has to be pulling the strings, manipulating the human race toward its destruction!

I call on all rational beings everywhere to abandon the mental illness known as "pet ownership" before it is too late!  Please, for the love of life and all good things that are possible in it, please - kill every animal that you own!  Now.  Right now, before their wickedness causes you to lose your resolve.  Then post pictures / video here to help encourage others.  You can do this.  I am counting on you.  Reason must triumph over emotion!  Though it may be a long twilight struggle against our furry overlords, through your heroic act, someday, perhaps within our lifetimes - HUMANITY WILL PREVAIL!

[/quote]
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Alex Libman

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 09:38:42 AM »

[...] I simply do not eat any animal that has a well-developed brain capable of at least recognizing pain [...]

A moral system must have a rational foundation, basing it on subjective emotion alone would result in you doing objectively immoral things - if not now then if your emotions someday change.  And the capacity to feel pain is not a rational basis for respecting life: pain is an inherent and useful part of the system that we call life.  Cockroaches recognize pain - are you going to let them take over your house (which they will if they get in and you don't kill them fast enough)?  Even plants recognize pain - are you going to starve yourself to save them?


[...] fur coats are viewed today

It is very probable that the human capacity to utilize animal resources for food, clothing, shelter, storage materials, etc has made the difference between our species surviving or going extinct many thousands of years ago.  Because we were able to survive and dominate the planet, animals have benefited tremendously: human beings can use natural resources hundreds of times more effectively (i.e. farming), thus allowing animal populations on this planet to increase hundreds of times under human dominion.

Most domesticated species would have gone extinct by now if it wasn't for us.  Instead there will someday be cows on hundreds of terraformed planets / moons and space stations - all thanks to man's capacity for rational thought.  Under your moral system, none of this would have been possible!


[...] in modern cities there is already plenty of discouragement for people to stop having babies, and thats good, because otherwise the human population would really have an exponential growth, which we may now think we are in, but i believe population will stabilize and even decrease as technology and modern society advances.

Exponential growth could happen in some underdeveloped third-world countries if their fertility rate stays the same, but this just isn't realistic - it is falling very quickly.  In virtually all industrialized countries, however, the very opposite is true - the fertility rate is dangerously low, causing exponential decline if it doesn't recover.  The former problem is pretty much guaranteed to be solved in a few decades, for the latter there's no end in sight.  (See my "childless tax" thread.)

This is a tragedy because as human demographics diminish and population ages, economic collapse is pretty much inevitable.  If the average family only has one child then you have to be twice more productive than your parents, four times more productive than your grandparents, and 128 times more productive than someone from the time of the American revolution - just to keep the human economy on the same level where it was at that time!  And, as a rational atheist, I don't want humanity to stand still, I want spectacular new scientific advances that would benefit us all!  If everyone averages just ~2.2 children per family (gradual population growth), the same advances in per-capita productivity would grow the total human economy by that much!

The carrying capacity of this planet is hundreds of billions of humans - more if we stop eating meat.  The carrying capacity of the universe is limitless, given that there is the will and the economic growth to take humanity toward the stars, and stable demographic growth is a prerequisite.


ok, i get it...this really IS  a joke thread. Shame you have made me spend so much time typing already.

It is serious subject matter presented in this thread through self-parody.  (Couldn't resist.)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 10:48:07 AM by Alex Libman »
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John Shaw

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 10:12:31 AM »

You are delusional.  Go post something that everybody likes to fulfill your need for attention.  I am on this BBS with a rational agenda to test and expand new ideas, which often requires doing the very opposite.  Deal with it - ideally by ignoring me, since you never have anything intelligent to contribute anyway.  Which can be expected from someone with no kids and a zillion cats.

See, this is why we'll probably never get along.

I was kidding, Alex. It was a joke, you see. You know, humor? Har dee har har?

And, uh... I don't know if I'd be throwing stones when it comes to the subject of people who "Need Attention", man...
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Alex Libman

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 10:32:36 AM »

Well, yeah, and I've hardeeharhared right back at you in my own way.  Have a nice day.
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JWI

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 10:38:03 AM »

So "Jay"...  my suspicions about you are finally verified!

You can't fool me!  I know exactly what you are!




That comic looks pretty close to my two dogs!  One is a black lab mix the other is a german shepherd/bloodhound.  Thanks for posting it!
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John Shaw

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 10:41:41 AM »

Well, yeah, and I've hardeeharhared right back at you in my own way.  Have a nice day.

I dunno, man.

"Never have anything intelligent to contribute anyway."

That doesn't sound very lighthearted, but okay.
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NHArticleTen

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Re: Human Egoism - Pet Ownership is a Moral Flaw
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 10:47:16 AM »

So "Jay"...  my suspicions about you are finally verified!

You can't fool me!  I know exactly what you are!




priceless...

(I wondered where all my bandwidth was going during the night...damn dogs...)

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