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Author Topic: Holocaust Denial  (Read 39362 times)

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blackie

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2009, 10:05:58 PM »

"The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...

If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..

What if it was your grandfather telling you about it from first hand experience.
and somehow he survived...
Even though the rest of his family, 9 brothers, 2 sisters was killed alongside him in the camps.
Killed how?
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mikehz

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2009, 12:09:31 AM »

Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites who, although they might deny the real holocaust, would not mind seeing it repeated.

Most of the ones I've encountered also subscribe to the other plethora of whacko conspiracy theories.
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blackie

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2009, 12:35:22 AM »

Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites who, although they might deny the real holocaust, would not mind seeing it repeated.
Maybe, but Holocaust denial is pretty broad term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
Quote
Holocaust denial is the claim that the genocide of Jews during World War II—usually referred to as the Holocaust[1]—did not occur at all, or in the manner or to the extent as historically recognized.

Key elements of this claim are the rejection of any of the following: that the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews and people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people; that over five million Jews[1] were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies; and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.

If a person thinks the number of jews killed was around four million, that person is a Holocaust denier.

You are also considered a Holocaust denier if you don't take a position, and just ask questions.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2009, 03:06:48 AM »

"The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...

If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..

What if it was your grandfather telling you about it from first hand experience.
and somehow he survived...
Even though the rest of his family, 9 brothers, 2 sisters was killed alongside him in the camps.
Killed how?
I don't feel the need to get graphic.  Let's just say he was lucky to have gotten out only missing a thumb instead of his head.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2009, 11:17:19 PM »

If a person thinks the number of jews killed was around four million, that person is a Holocaust denier.

You are also considered a Holocaust denier if you don't take a position, and just ask questions.

Seems to me that expressing any opinion differing from Abe Foxman's carries a substantial risk of being branded a Holocaust denier.

I can't believe they're getting away with putting people in prison over a thought crime.

Abe Foxman is a dangerous idiot.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2009, 03:06:56 AM »

If a person thinks the number of jews killed was around four million, that person is a Holocaust denier.

You are also considered a Holocaust denier if you don't take a position, and just ask questions.

Seems to me that expressing any opinion differing from Abe Foxman's carries a substantial risk of being branded a Holocaust denier.

I can't believe they're getting away with putting people in prison over a thought crime.

Abe Foxman is a dangerous idiot.

this
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2009, 01:39:34 PM »

I repeat (in hopes that some here will actually answer and think about the consequences...)


So now my challenge to you is:  ADMIT that some of the history of the holocaust is inaccurate...  (  )True  or   (  ) False?


Any here actually plan to answer the question above (especially mikehz)...

blackie

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2009, 03:36:53 PM »

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3715568,00.html

Quote
Australian Holocaust denier sentenced to prison

Fredrick Toben sentenced after violating 2002 court order to stop publishing anti-Semitic material on his website

Associated Press Published:  05.13.09, 17:43 / Israel News 

An Australian man who has denied the Holocaust occurred was sentenced Wednesday to three months in prison for defying an order to stop publishing anti-Semitic material on his Web site. Fredrick Toben remained free after the sentencing, however, because the judge gave him two weeks to lodge an appeal.

Justice Bruce Lander of the Federal Court found Toben, 65, guilty of 24 counts of contempt of a 2002 court ruling that barred him from publishing anti-Semitic material on the Web site of his organization, the Adelaide Institute.

The material found to be in breach of the order included suggestions the Holocaust did not happen, that questioned whether there were gas chambers at the Auschwitz death camp, and that challenged the intelligence of Jews who questioned Holocaust deniers' beliefs.

Toben said the ruling was a defeat for free speech. "I am quite prepared to sacrifice my physical comforts for the sake of free expression," he told reporters outside the court.

Toben last year avoided prosecution in Germany on a Holocaust-denying charge when a British court ruled against extraditing him after he was arrested in London on a German warrant. Prosecutors said at the time they still wanted to pursue the charge.

Toben was previously arrested while traveling through Germany and convicted by the Mannheim court of Holocaust denial in 1999. He served seven months in prison before being released.

'No vilification of minorities'
The case against Toben stemmed from allegations made by Jeremy Jones, a former president of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, who welcomed Wednesday's ruling as a victory against the vilification of minorities online.

"In Australian law we have very open debate on most subjects, but that debate does not include a right to insult and abuse and humiliate people based on their race and ethnicity," Jones told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.

Toben participated in Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's 2006 conference called to debate whether the World War II genocide of Jews took place, where he argued the Auschwitz death camp was too small for the mass murder of Jews to have been carried out there. He suggested only 2,007 people could have been killed at the camp.

Researchers estimate that between 1.1 million and 1.5 million people - mainly Jews - were killed at Auschwitz by the Nazis, part of the total 6 million.


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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #83 on: May 13, 2009, 06:47:26 PM »

Someone going to prison (or even being fined) for simply publishing their belief is absurd...

mikehz

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #84 on: May 13, 2009, 10:52:18 PM »

I repeat (in hopes that some here will actually answer and think about the consequences...)


So now my challenge to you is:  ADMIT that some of the history of the holocaust is inaccurate...  (  )True  or   (  ) False?


Any here actually plan to answer the question above (especially mikehz)...

Ah--I see the plan. If you can establish that some minor details are incorrect, it invalidates the entire event. Right? So, if it's NOT exactly six million, (or whatever), then no one was murdered.

My question is, if the holocaust never occurred, then where did all those people vanish to? (There are records; tons of records. The Germans were nothing if not sticklers for record-keeping.)

Let's see--we can probably play this "if some of the details are wrong, then the thing never happened" game with other historical events. Columbus wasn't the first European to discover America, so colonization never happened. The Wrights weren't the first to fly heavier-than-air craft, so aviation never occurred. We can go on all day with this...

But yes--huge numbers of people were undoubtedly murdered in the German concentration camps. William Shire did a great deal of research for his "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," and details the very careful planning and orchestrating of the holocaust, giving names, dates, documents. The deniers have to explain away each of these. So far, from what I've seen, heard and read of them, they do a pitifully lousy job of it.
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blackie

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #85 on: May 13, 2009, 11:21:15 PM »

Ah--I see the plan. If you can establish that some minor details are incorrect, it invalidates the entire event. Right? So, if it's NOT exactly six million, (or whatever), then no one was murdered.
I don't get why people jump to this conclusion.

Quote
My question is, if the holocaust never occurred, then where did all those people vanish to?

http://www.revisionists.com/revisionism.html
Quote
Revisionists do not "deny" the Jewish Holocaust as their critics claim. (Though of course it is understandable why those critics assert this; if, in a debate about the shape of the earth, you can successfully pin on someone the label "flat-earther," you've scored big points even if what they say is very far from the absurdity of such a posture.)

Revisionists are, in fact, Holocaust DIMINISHERS, not deniers. They are questioners about what they believe are significant exaggerations in the Holocaust tale, and they are critics of the view that somehow this historical event is beyond discussion on pain of being placed in the category of child-molester or worse, shunned by society, even fined and imprisoned by some so-called free countries in the western world.

Revisionists do not deny that there was much Jewish suffering during WW II, that there were many Jews who had property confiscated wrongfully, that many Jews died of disease or starvation in terrible conditions or were killed, that there were terrible brutalities and atrocities committed against Jews by Germans and others. None of this do Revisionists deny.
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #86 on: May 14, 2009, 08:02:46 AM »

I repeat (in hopes that some here will actually answer and think about the consequences...)


So now my challenge to you is:  ADMIT that some of the history of the holocaust is inaccurate...  (  )True  or   (  ) False?


Any here actually plan to answer the question above (especially mikehz)...

Ah--I see the plan. If you can establish that some minor details are incorrect, it invalidates the entire event. Right? So, if it's NOT exactly six million, (or whatever), then no one was murdered.

It's OK.  I know why you don't want to answer it.  Answering it would deflate the main tool to label "unfriendlies" (to the "gov") as nasty ugly "anti-semites" (some of which are actually JEWISH...).

No one is claiming that no Jews (and others) were killed by the big bad Nazi's...  OF COURSE THEY WERE !!!  You have been told over and over again the definition of "Holocaust denier" and how it includes ANYONE who disputes ANY of the "official story".  If I say that the nasty Nazi's killed 5 million Jews (hey, that a lot) I then am officially a "Holocaust denier" according to the "official" definition....

So the question still stands if you have the balls to answer it...

libertylover

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #87 on: May 17, 2009, 07:07:22 AM »

I don't deny the Holocaust.  But I do find it interesting that of the 11 million people the Nazis executed in their camps only 6 million were Jews yet very little attention is given to the 5 million other victims.  Like what non-German neutral during WWII country is going to be invaded by Gypsies to displace the native population so they can have a homeland?  And that homeland financially and militarily supported by America to the tune of billions of dollars. 

Jewish group that is opposed to zionism.  This is their interesting perspective on the holocaust.  There is a link on that page to an article entitled the millions that could have been saved.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm
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Andy

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #88 on: May 17, 2009, 12:04:14 PM »

I don't deny the Holocaust.  But I do find it interesting that of the 11 million people the Nazis executed in their camps only 6 million were Jews yet very little attention is given to the 5 million other victims.  Like what non-German neutral during WWII country is going to be invaded by Gypsies to displace the native population so they can have a homeland?  And that homeland financially and militarily supported by America to the tune of billions of dollars. 

Jewish group that is opposed to zionism.  This is their interesting perspective on the holocaust.  There is a link on that page to an article entitled the millions that could have been saved.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm

The amount of attention paid to Israel compared to any one of half dozen African wars is far more disproportionate than the amount of attention paid to Jewish victims of the holocaust compared to other victims.

TimeLady Victorious

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Re: Holocaust Denial
« Reply #89 on: May 17, 2009, 04:40:35 PM »

I don't deny the Holocaust.  But I do find it interesting that of the 11 million people the Nazis executed in their camps only 6 million were Jews yet very little attention is given to the 5 million other victims.  Like what non-German neutral during WWII country is going to be invaded by Gypsies to displace the native population so they can have a homeland?  And that homeland financially and militarily supported by America to the tune of billions of dollars. 

Jewish group that is opposed to zionism.  This is their interesting perspective on the holocaust.  There is a link on that page to an article entitled the millions that could have been saved.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm

The amount of attention paid to Israel compared to any one of half dozen African wars is far more disproportionate than the amount of attention paid to Jewish victims of the holocaust compared to other victims.

I agree with what Andy said. No one cares about the gays or the Gypsies or the slavs who were killed for being "subhuman"?
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