Please avoid framing the question as whether "the Holocaust happened" or not. No noteworthy historical revisionist I've ever heard of is denying that Jews were put in concentration camps - like the Japanese were in America, a major difference being that America wasn't being invaded from both sides and suffering from massive food & fuel shortages and disease epidemics.
The questions that are up for debate are:
(1) Should this debate even be allowed in the first place, or should people questioning or even probing deeper into the history of the Holocaust be jailed as Holocaust Deniers, as they are in some European countries?
(2) What were the intentions of the German government in putting the Jews (and other groups) in concentration camps? Was it their original intention to kill them all? Did they offer them as bargaining chips in negotiations with the Allies?
(3) How many Jews died and of what cause - how many were gassed alive in the camps, and how many died of disease, hunger, Allied bombing, were killed outside the camps, etc. Will the "Hitler killed 6 million Jews" claim stand an unbiased historical analysis?
(4) Did the victorious Allies, especially the Soviet Union, take any liberties with truth in propagandizing the Holocaust to the world? It is known that some initial claims (an eight-digit figure of dead Jews, human soap and leather, etc) had to be withdrawn in light of new evidence, and it was revealed that at least some Soviet and independent Polish massacres were blamed on the Germans. Given the history of "antisemitism" in Russia / Ukraine / Belarus / Poland (ex the Kielce pogrom in 1946), could those revelations be a tip of a much bigger iceberg?
Holocaust denial is the claim that the genocide of Jews during World War II—usually referred to as the Holocaust[1]—did not occur in the manner or to the extent described by current scholarship.
Key elements of this claim are the rejection of any of the following: that the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews and people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people; that between five and seven million Jews[1] were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies; and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.[2][3]
Holocaust deniers do not accept the term "denial" as an appropriate description of their point of view, and use the term Holocaust revisionism instead.[4] Scholars, however, prefer the term "denial" to differentiate Holocaust deniers from historical revisionists, who use established historical methodologies.[5]
Holocaust denial claims imply, or openly state, that the Holocaust is a hoax arising out of a deliberate Jewish conspiracy to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other peoples.[6] For this reason, Holocaust denial is generally considered to be an antisemitic[7] conspiracy theory.[8] The methodologies of Holocaust deniers are criticized as based on a predetermined conclusion that ignores extensive historical evidence to the contrary.[9]
However, it must be noted that some people have been improperly labeled "Holocaust deniers" because they reject the religious connotation associated with the term Holocaust. Some people may be improperly labeled "Holocaust deniers" when in fact they do not deny the murder of innocent people, but instead reject the name given to the act. The term holocaust originally derived from the Greek word holókauston, meaning a "completely (holos) burnt (kaustos)" sacrificial offering to a god. The majority of scholars define the Holocaust as a genocide of European Jewry alone and do not include the mass murders of other groups as part of the "holocaust".
Upon a closer historical investigation, I have personally witnessed evidence of at least 6,000,000 people being deliberately exterminated by the Nazis. I also saw video of Hitler saying: "Don't let a single Jew leave, no matter how much they pay us." I now consider this matter closed.Did you just pull a David Cole (http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04h_Cole.html)?
Whats a jew?
This thread reeks of the same scent that eminates from every 9/11 conspiracy thread. [...] |
... a jew ... |
I submit to you that it's tyranny to disallow someone to say 2+2=22 |
As opposed to whom? You, I suppose? :lol:
So just because you're not the one in controle means your not a "murderous asshole?"
that didn't answer the question, the question was "So just because you're not the one in controle means your not a "murderous asshole?""
So then exactly why do you think you're not? I think just about every person on earth is exactly a "murderous asshole" maybe born again in their own minds but really just a bunch of player haters when it comes to topics like Hitler. 8)
But hey, gotta start somewhere right? Even if it's from atop of an ivory tower, I suppose.
Psychosis can make it all go away, can it?
8)
If you say so, hater 8)
That just makes it alright then doesn't it..... :roll:
The problems of the world can be solved by being sanctimonious! Thank you, your message will carry to the furthest reaches of the world so that we may all be saved. :lol:
I'm not a murderous asshole because I'm not.
I'm not being sanctimonius.
I'm an asshole, though. I'll admit that.
I'm not being sanctimonius.
Like you. Asshole.
I'm not a murderous asshole because I'm not.I'm not being sanctimonius.I'm an asshole, though. I'll admit that.I'm not being sanctimonius.
Like you. Asshole.
I'd like you to show me where I said I was better than anyone else, and that's 'anyone else' to include hitler. :lol:
MUNICH - German dissident Horst Mahler has been sentenced to six years in prison for "Volksverhetzung" (racial incitement). The symbolically significant number of years imposed for "anti- Semitic hate speech" stemmed from his refusal to recognize the Jewish Holocaust®, which he described as "the biggest lie in world history."
FACING LIFELONG IMPRISONMENT-Dissident Horst Mahler is seen here with his wife Sylvia Stolz, currently in prison for defending other dissidents.
The 73-year-old defendant was accused, among other things, of repeated dissemination of his views on the Internet as well as distribution of a revisionist videotape and a CD and book by Holo-skeptic Germar Rudolf, now serving time for "Holocaust® denial" in a German prison.
Immediately following sentencing, the 73-year-old dissident was arrested and led away before astonished onlookers in the courtroom, including many of his supporters.
The former attorney for the rightwing National Democratic Party (NPD) successfully represented that organization when the German regime tried to have it banned in the 1990s. He earlier received prison sentences for thought-crimes on several occasions.
'I have resolved to call a lie a lie'
In his concluding remarks before the court, Mahler noted that with another case pending against him he faces a total of over 12 years in prison - the equivalent of a life sentence, given his advanced age. He would, however, stand by his views.
In setting a personal example, Mahler declared that it was incumbent upon every German to "deal a deathblow to the Holocaust® religion as martyrs for the truth."
The dissident defendant concluded by saying:
"I have resolved to expose this Talmudic perfidy, that over and over again I will call a lie a lie and oppose it with the truth. I have sworn to my people never to give up in this fight against the Holocaust® religion."
Mahler sentenced, transferred for new trialThat is some funny shit....a "Hitler salute" to your German jailers who have you locked up for a thought crime.
February 26, 2009
BERLIN (JTA) -- Recidivist hate purveyor Horst Mahler, sentenced yesterday to six years in prison for hate crimes in a Munich court, is facing another trial.
Mahler, 73, was found guilty on Feb. 25 of incitement of hate for posting Holocaust denial material on the Internet and distributing anti-Semitic CDs calling for violence against Jews.
A founder of the far-left Red Army Faction who famously underwent a transformation to the extreme right, Mahler is expected to be transferred to a jail in the northeastern state of Brandenburg to await his next trial. A spokesperson from the Potsdam District Court told reporters that "our trial can only go forward if Horst Mahler is here."
Before being removed from the courtroom Wednesday, Mahler reportedly made a long closing statement repeating his Holocaust denial and saying he supported controversial Bishop Richard Williamson, who has publicly doubted that 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis.
Mahler is a prominent member of the right-extremist National Democratic Party of Germany.
In November 2007, he was sentenced to six months in a German prison for raising his arm in the illegal "Hitler salute" to greet his jailers in a previous sentence for incitement to hate.
My general rule of thumb is that if the "powers that be" are saying something is so - it isn't...
So I guess you have to label me a "holocaust denier" because I do not buy the 6 million figure nor do I buy the "gas chambers" story (of course the "soap" and "lampshades" BS was discredited long ago). These things make great propaganda though to get everyone to march lock-step into numerous wars and to vote for more over-seas expenditures...
If I read in the most prestigious source that "the sky is blue" I will have to go out and look for myself before I believe it.
My general rule of thumb is that if the "powers that be" are saying something is so - it isn't...
So I guess you have to label me a "holocaust denier" because I do not buy the 6 million figure nor do I buy the "gas chambers" story (of course the "soap" and "lampshades" BS was discredited long ago). These things make great propaganda though to get everyone to march lock-step into numerous wars and to vote for more over-seas expenditures...
If I read in the most prestigious source that "the sky is blue" I will have to go out and look for myself before I believe it.
My general rule of thumb is that if the "powers that be" are saying something is so - it isn't...
So I guess you have to label me a "holocaust denier" because I do not buy the 6 million figure nor do I buy the "gas chambers" story (of course the "soap" and "lampshades" BS was discredited long ago). These things make great propaganda though to get everyone to march lock-step into numerous wars and to vote for more over-seas expenditures...
If I read in the most prestigious source that "the sky is blue" I will have to go out and look for myself before I believe it.
But the Bible, that's credible.
Obama pledges to confront Holocaust deniers
WASHINGTON (AFP) — At a ceremony Thursday remembering millions of Jews slaughtered in World War II, President Barack Obama reaffirmed the strong US bond with Israel and vowed to confront Holocaust deniers.
"There are those who insist the Holocaust never happened, who perpetrate every form of intolerance -- racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, xenophobia, sexism and more," Obama told a gathering in the Capitol Rotunda organized by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.
"We have an opportunity and an obligation to confront these scourges," Obama said.
"We have the opportunity ... to commit ourselves to resisting injustice, intolerance and indifference in whatever forms they may take, whether confronting those who tells lies about history or doing everything we can to prevent and end atrocities like those that took place in Rwanda, those taking place in Darfur," he said.
The US president's speech came just days after a UN conference on racism where Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad denounced Israel as "the most cruel and repressive racist regime."
Obama reaffirmed the "strong and enduring" bonds between the United States and Israel.
"The nation of Israel rising from the destruction of the Holocaust" was a source of hope to all those who commit to fighting intolerance, he said.
Among those at the gathering, which was part of the US Holocaust Museum's Days of Remembrance, were five Poles who between them saved the lives of scores of Jews and have been awarded the title of Righteous among the Nations by the Holocaust remembrance organization, Yad Vashem.
"The Righteous remind us that no one is born a savior or a murderer. These are choices we each have the power to make," Obama said of the Poles as well as the villagers of Le Chambon in France, which refused to turn away or turn in Jews during the war, and saved 5,000 lives.
Jozef Wolszczak, now 90, and the doyen of the group of Righteous, saved the lives of 53 Jews in occupied Poland during the war, buying 20 of them for a kilo of gold from the Germans after a raid, giving 30 jobs in his small factory and harboring three more in his home.
Tadeusz Stankiewicz's family built bunkers in the woods southeast of Warsaw, in which 60 Jews hid.
"We did it because it was the only thing to do. How can you watch so many people suffering and not lift a finger to help them?" Stankiewicz told AFP.
Ireneusz Rajchowski's family sheltered dozens of Jews in their home, including a man they helped smuggle out of the Warsaw ghetto.
The rescued Jewish man and his family survived the war. His daughter, Barbara Gora, was in the Capitol Thursday, along with two more Righteous Poles, Alicja Schnepf and Anna Stupnicka-Bando, and Krystyna Budnicka, the only member of her Orthodox Jewish family to survive the war.
"The Righteous teach us ... that if we have the courage to heed that 'still, small voice' within us, we can form a minyan for righteousness that can span a village and even a nation," said Obama.
A minyan is the quorum required for Jewish communal worship. More than 6,000 Poles have been awarded the title of Righteous among the Nations, the largest number of any country.
Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel, who survived the Nazi death camps at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, used his time at the podium in the Rotunda to take on Ahmadinejad.
The Iranian leader was "the number one Holocaust denier in the world," said Wiesel, whose mother and sister died at Auschwitz, his father at Buchenwald.
"He used the solemn setting of a United Nations gathering again to insult the state of Israel in a way that no civilized person should ever do," he said, thanking the United States for boycotting the UN meeting in Geneva.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hV18fZB0yVFj1F0eCha8PGWvVD_QQuoteObama pledges to confront Holocaust deniers
WASHINGTON (AFP) — At a ceremony Thursday remembering millions of Jews slaughtered in World War II, President Barack Obama reaffirmed the strong US bond with Israel and vowed to confront Holocaust deniers.
"There are those who insist the Holocaust never happened, who perpetrate every form of intolerance -- racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, xenophobia, sexism and more," Obama told a gathering in the Capitol Rotunda organized by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.
"We have an opportunity and an obligation to confront these scourges," Obama said.
"We have the opportunity ... to commit ourselves to resisting injustice, intolerance and indifference in whatever forms they may take, whether confronting those who tells lies about history or doing everything we can to prevent and end atrocities like those that took place in Rwanda, those taking place in Darfur," he said.
The US president's speech came just days after a UN conference on racism where Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad denounced Israel as "the most cruel and repressive racist regime."
Obama reaffirmed the "strong and enduring" bonds between the United States and Israel.
"The nation of Israel rising from the destruction of the Holocaust" was a source of hope to all those who commit to fighting intolerance, he said.
Among those at the gathering, which was part of the US Holocaust Museum's Days of Remembrance, were five Poles who between them saved the lives of scores of Jews and have been awarded the title of Righteous among the Nations by the Holocaust remembrance organization, Yad Vashem.
"The Righteous remind us that no one is born a savior or a murderer. These are choices we each have the power to make," Obama said of the Poles as well as the villagers of Le Chambon in France, which refused to turn away or turn in Jews during the war, and saved 5,000 lives.
Jozef Wolszczak, now 90, and the doyen of the group of Righteous, saved the lives of 53 Jews in occupied Poland during the war, buying 20 of them for a kilo of gold from the Germans after a raid, giving 30 jobs in his small factory and harboring three more in his home.
Tadeusz Stankiewicz's family built bunkers in the woods southeast of Warsaw, in which 60 Jews hid.
"We did it because it was the only thing to do. How can you watch so many people suffering and not lift a finger to help them?" Stankiewicz told AFP.
Ireneusz Rajchowski's family sheltered dozens of Jews in their home, including a man they helped smuggle out of the Warsaw ghetto.
The rescued Jewish man and his family survived the war. His daughter, Barbara Gora, was in the Capitol Thursday, along with two more Righteous Poles, Alicja Schnepf and Anna Stupnicka-Bando, and Krystyna Budnicka, the only member of her Orthodox Jewish family to survive the war.
"The Righteous teach us ... that if we have the courage to heed that 'still, small voice' within us, we can form a minyan for righteousness that can span a village and even a nation," said Obama.
A minyan is the quorum required for Jewish communal worship. More than 6,000 Poles have been awarded the title of Righteous among the Nations, the largest number of any country.
Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel, who survived the Nazi death camps at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, used his time at the podium in the Rotunda to take on Ahmadinejad.
The Iranian leader was "the number one Holocaust denier in the world," said Wiesel, whose mother and sister died at Auschwitz, his father at Buchenwald.
"He used the solemn setting of a United Nations gathering again to insult the state of Israel in a way that no civilized person should ever do," he said, thanking the United States for boycotting the UN meeting in Geneva.
Obama pledges to confront Holocaust deniers (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hV18fZB0yVFj1F0eCha8PGWvVD_Q) [...] |
By "confront" he means violate their rights, like in certain other countries... :x
And indeed, one would be hard-pressed to find a more racist government (that is recognized by the UN) than Israel.
Then again, there's no profit in objective morality. And lots of profit in Israel. ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAkfHShATKY [youtube=425,350]v/OAkfHShATKY[/youtube] |
My general rule of thumb is that if the "powers that be" are saying something is so - it isn't...
So I guess you have to label me a "holocaust denier" because I do not buy the 6 million figure nor do I buy the "gas chambers" story (of course the "soap" and "lampshades" BS was discredited long ago). These things make great propaganda though to get everyone to march lock-step into numerous wars and to vote for more over-seas expenditures...
If I read in the most prestigious source that "the sky is blue" I will have to go out and look for myself before I believe it.
Maybe they're hiding six million Jews. After all, they were there before the camps, then POOF.'Did Six Million Really Die?' (http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/falsenews.toc.html)
Six Million?
Should someone be considered a "Holocaust denier" because he does not believe -- as Matas and others insist -- that six million Jews were killed during World War II? This figure was cited by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1945-1946. It found that "the policy pursued [by the German government] resulted in the killing of six million Jews, of which four million were killed in the extermination institutions." (note 2)
Yet if that is so, then several of the most prominent Holocaust historians could be regarded as "deniers." Professor Raul Hilberg, author of the standard reference work, The Destruction of the European Jews, does not accept that six million Jews died. He puts the total of deaths (from all causes) at 5.1 million. Gerald Reitlinger, author of The Final Solution, likewise did not accept the six million figure. He estimated the figure of Jewish wartime dead might be as high as 4.6 million, but admitted that this was conjectural due to a lack of reliable information.
- April 19, 2009 - "Show 27 - Ghosts of the Ostfront I (http://dancarlinhh.libsyn.com/media/dancarlinhh/dchha27_Ghosts_of_the_Ostfront_I.mp3)" - Part One covering the conflict between the Germans and the Soviet Union in the Second World War. Dan gives an introduction to the subject and discusses the causes and opening moves of Operation Barbarossa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa).
... here's what you append to all your forum posts if you want every person viewing them to hammer maqs.com for ~8MB of bandwidth: |
Maybe they're hiding six million Jews. After all, they were there before the camps, then POOF.'Did Six Million Really Die?' (http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/falsenews.toc.html)
Report of the Evidence in the Canadian 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel -- 1988QuoteSix Million?
Should someone be considered a "Holocaust denier" because he does not believe -- as Matas and others insist -- that six million Jews were killed during World War II? This figure was cited by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1945-1946. It found that "the policy pursued [by the German government] resulted in the killing of six million Jews, of which four million were killed in the extermination institutions." (note 2)
Yet if that is so, then several of the most prominent Holocaust historians could be regarded as "deniers." Professor Raul Hilberg, author of the standard reference work, The Destruction of the European Jews, does not accept that six million Jews died. He puts the total of deaths (from all causes) at 5.1 million. Gerald Reitlinger, author of The Final Solution, likewise did not accept the six million figure. He estimated the figure of Jewish wartime dead might be as high as 4.6 million, but admitted that this was conjectural due to a lack of reliable information.
I don't think the number is important. The people who claim 6 million do.
It doesn't matter how many died.Yes it does. If it isn't approximately 6 million or more Jews, it is "Holocaust Denial".
It doesn't matter how many died.Yes it does. If it isn't approximately 6 million or more Jews, it is "Holocaust Denial".
Oh, I guess it's down to 5 million or more now. Weird how that number keeps shrinking.It doesn't matter how many died.Yes it does. If it isn't approximately 6 million or more Jews, it is "Holocaust Denial".
No, it's not.
Key elements of this claim are the rejection of any of the following: that the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews and people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people; that over five million Jews were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies; and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.
Oh, I guess it's down to 5 million or more now. Weird how that number keeps shrinking.It doesn't matter how many died.Yes it does. If it isn't approximately 6 million or more Jews, it is "Holocaust Denial".
No, it's not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denialQuoteKey elements of this claim are the rejection of any of the following: that the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews and people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people; that over five million Jews were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies; and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.
and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.
Why is that important?Oh, I guess it's down to 5 million or more now. Weird how that number keeps shrinking.It doesn't matter how many died.Yes it does. If it isn't approximately 6 million or more Jews, it is "Holocaust Denial".
No, it's not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denialQuoteKey elements of this claim are the rejection of any of the following: that the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews and people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people; that over five million Jews were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies; and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.Quoteand that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.
Yeah, that's the more important part.
Why is that important?Oh, I guess it's down to 5 million or more now. Weird how that number keeps shrinking.It doesn't matter how many died.Yes it does. If it isn't approximately 6 million or more Jews, it is "Holocaust Denial".
No, it's not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denialQuoteKey elements of this claim are the rejection of any of the following: that the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews and people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people; that over five million Jews were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies; and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.Quoteand that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.
Yeah, that's the more important part.
What does it matter how they died?
Quoteand that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.
Yeah, that's the more important part.
Unless you're just going to assume that there was no such thing as the Einsatzgruppen, Himmler never said that the Holocaust was a chapter in history "that is not to be written and will never be written," there was no Wannsee conference, there were no experiments of Mengele, Hitler never said in the 20s that if he were elected to office he would have the Jews hung one by one on the lampposts of Munich . . .
Hell, war crimes don't happen at all. There was no Unit 791 of the Japanese Imperial Army, there was no Sack of Berlin by the Soviet Army, the CIA never waterboarded civilians, etc.
"The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...
If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..
"The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...
If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..
aren't you talking about those false memoirs by some woman or another?
video or it didn't happen
"The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...
If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..
aren't you talking about those false memoirs by some woman or another?
Does any of this mean that an event labeled "The Holocaust" DID NOT occur? No, it is obvious to most anyone that a lot of Jews were killed during the war by the Nazis. I think it is pretty clear that the number WAS NOT 6 million as is always touted (even in the story above). Was the actual number closer to 3 million? We will never know as all that information is spotty and some of it has been destroyed or lost.
"The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...What if it was your grandfather telling you about it from first hand experience.
If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..
and somehow he survived..."The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...What if it was your grandfather telling you about it from first hand experience.
If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..
Even though the rest of his family, 9 brothers, 2 sisters was killed alongside him in the camps.and somehow he survived..."The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...What if it was your grandfather telling you about it from first hand experience.
If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..
Killed how?Even though the rest of his family, 9 brothers, 2 sisters was killed alongside him in the camps.and somehow he survived..."The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...What if it was your grandfather telling you about it from first hand experience.
If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..
Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites who, although they might deny the real holocaust, would not mind seeing it repeated.Maybe, but Holocaust denial is pretty broad term.
Holocaust denial is the claim that the genocide of Jews during World War II—usually referred to as the Holocaust[1]—did not occur at all, or in the manner or to the extent as historically recognized.
Key elements of this claim are the rejection of any of the following: that the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews and people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people; that over five million Jews[1] were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies; and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.
I don't feel the need to get graphic. Let's just say he was lucky to have gotten out only missing a thumb instead of his head.Killed how?Even though the rest of his family, 9 brothers, 2 sisters was killed alongside him in the camps.and somehow he survived..."The Holocaust", like every other historical event, has truth and fiction as evidenced by some recent book that had to be withdrawn by the publisher when they found out the entire "holocaust" event it was based on was pure fiction...What if it was your grandfather telling you about it from first hand experience.
If you believe everything you see in a "holocaust museum" or taught in "history" books, you are way too gullible..
If a person thinks the number of jews killed was around four million, that person is a Holocaust denier.
You are also considered a Holocaust denier if you don't take a position, and just ask questions.
Seems to me that expressing any opinion differing from Abe Foxman's carries a substantial risk of being branded a Holocaust denier.
I can't believe they're getting away with putting people in prison over a thought crime.
If a person thinks the number of jews killed was around four million, that person is a Holocaust denier.
You are also considered a Holocaust denier if you don't take a position, and just ask questions.
Seems to me that expressing any opinion differing from Abe Foxman's carries a substantial risk of being branded a Holocaust denier.
I can't believe they're getting away with putting people in prison over a thought crime.
Abe Foxman is a dangerous idiot.
I repeat (in hopes that some here will actually answer and think about the consequences...)
So now my challenge to you is: ADMIT that some of the history of the holocaust is inaccurate... ( )True or ( ) False?
Australian Holocaust denier sentenced to prison
Fredrick Toben sentenced after violating 2002 court order to stop publishing anti-Semitic material on his website
Associated Press Published: 05.13.09, 17:43 / Israel News
An Australian man who has denied the Holocaust occurred was sentenced Wednesday to three months in prison for defying an order to stop publishing anti-Semitic material on his Web site. Fredrick Toben remained free after the sentencing, however, because the judge gave him two weeks to lodge an appeal.
Justice Bruce Lander of the Federal Court found Toben, 65, guilty of 24 counts of contempt of a 2002 court ruling that barred him from publishing anti-Semitic material on the Web site of his organization, the Adelaide Institute.
The material found to be in breach of the order included suggestions the Holocaust did not happen, that questioned whether there were gas chambers at the Auschwitz death camp, and that challenged the intelligence of Jews who questioned Holocaust deniers' beliefs.
Toben said the ruling was a defeat for free speech. "I am quite prepared to sacrifice my physical comforts for the sake of free expression," he told reporters outside the court.
Toben last year avoided prosecution in Germany on a Holocaust-denying charge when a British court ruled against extraditing him after he was arrested in London on a German warrant. Prosecutors said at the time they still wanted to pursue the charge.
Toben was previously arrested while traveling through Germany and convicted by the Mannheim court of Holocaust denial in 1999. He served seven months in prison before being released.
'No vilification of minorities'
The case against Toben stemmed from allegations made by Jeremy Jones, a former president of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, who welcomed Wednesday's ruling as a victory against the vilification of minorities online.
"In Australian law we have very open debate on most subjects, but that debate does not include a right to insult and abuse and humiliate people based on their race and ethnicity," Jones told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.
Toben participated in Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's 2006 conference called to debate whether the World War II genocide of Jews took place, where he argued the Auschwitz death camp was too small for the mass murder of Jews to have been carried out there. He suggested only 2,007 people could have been killed at the camp.
Researchers estimate that between 1.1 million and 1.5 million people - mainly Jews - were killed at Auschwitz by the Nazis, part of the total 6 million.
I repeat (in hopes that some here will actually answer and think about the consequences...)
So now my challenge to you is: ADMIT that some of the history of the holocaust is inaccurate... ( )True or ( ) False?
Any here actually plan to answer the question above (especially mikehz)...
Ah--I see the plan. If you can establish that some minor details are incorrect, it invalidates the entire event. Right? So, if it's NOT exactly six million, (or whatever), then no one was murdered.I don't get why people jump to this conclusion.
My question is, if the holocaust never occurred, then where did all those people vanish to?
Revisionists do not "deny" the Jewish Holocaust as their critics claim. (Though of course it is understandable why those critics assert this; if, in a debate about the shape of the earth, you can successfully pin on someone the label "flat-earther," you've scored big points even if what they say is very far from the absurdity of such a posture.)
Revisionists are, in fact, Holocaust DIMINISHERS, not deniers. They are questioners about what they believe are significant exaggerations in the Holocaust tale, and they are critics of the view that somehow this historical event is beyond discussion on pain of being placed in the category of child-molester or worse, shunned by society, even fined and imprisoned by some so-called free countries in the western world.
Revisionists do not deny that there was much Jewish suffering during WW II, that there were many Jews who had property confiscated wrongfully, that many Jews died of disease or starvation in terrible conditions or were killed, that there were terrible brutalities and atrocities committed against Jews by Germans and others. None of this do Revisionists deny.
I repeat (in hopes that some here will actually answer and think about the consequences...)
So now my challenge to you is: ADMIT that some of the history of the holocaust is inaccurate... ( )True or ( ) False?
Any here actually plan to answer the question above (especially mikehz)...
Ah--I see the plan. If you can establish that some minor details are incorrect, it invalidates the entire event. Right? So, if it's NOT exactly six million, (or whatever), then no one was murdered.
It's OK. I know why you don't want to answer it. Answering it would deflate the main tool to label "unfriendlies" (to the "gov") as nasty ugly "anti-semites" (some of which are actually JEWISH...).
No one is claiming that no Jews (and others) were killed by the big bad Nazi's... OF COURSE THEY WERE !!! You have been told over and over again the definition of "Holocaust denier" and how it includes ANYONE who disputes ANY of the "official story". If I say that the nasty Nazi's killed 5 million Jews (hey, that a lot) I then am officially a "Holocaust denier" according to the "official" definition....
So the question still stands if you have the balls to answer it...
I don't deny the Holocaust. But I do find it interesting that of the 11 million people the Nazis executed in their camps only 6 million were Jews yet very little attention is given to the 5 million other victims. Like what non-German neutral during WWII country is going to be invaded by Gypsies to displace the native population so they can have a homeland? And that homeland financially and militarily supported by America to the tune of billions of dollars.
Jewish group that is opposed to zionism. This is their interesting perspective on the holocaust. There is a link on that page to an article entitled the millions that could have been saved.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm)
I don't deny the Holocaust. But I do find it interesting that of the 11 million people the Nazis executed in their camps only 6 million were Jews yet very little attention is given to the 5 million other victims. Like what non-German neutral during WWII country is going to be invaded by Gypsies to displace the native population so they can have a homeland? And that homeland financially and militarily supported by America to the tune of billions of dollars.
Jewish group that is opposed to zionism. This is their interesting perspective on the holocaust. There is a link on that page to an article entitled the millions that could have been saved.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm)
The amount of attention paid to Israel compared to any one of half dozen African wars is far more disproportionate than the amount of attention paid to Jewish victims of the holocaust compared to other victims.
I don't deny the Holocaust. But I do find it interesting that of the 11 million people the Nazis executed in their camps only 6 million were Jews yet very little attention is given to the 5 million other victims. Like what non-German neutral during WWII country is going to be invaded by Gypsies to displace the native population so they can have a homeland? And that homeland financially and militarily supported by America to the tune of billions of dollars.
Jewish group that is opposed to zionism. This is their interesting perspective on the holocaust. There is a link on that page to an article entitled the millions that could have been saved.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm)
The amount of attention paid to Israel compared to any one of half dozen African wars is far more disproportionate than the amount of attention paid to Jewish victims of the holocaust compared to other victims.
I agree with what Andy said. No one cares about the gays or the Gypsies or the slavs who were killed for being "subhuman"?
Last update - 21:01 17/05/2009
Poll: 40% of Israeli Arabs believe Holocaust never happened
By Fadi Eyadat, Haaretz Correspondent
Some 40.5 percent of Israeli Arabs believe the Holocaust never occurred, according to the results of a University of Haifa poll released Sunday.
The survey shows that Holocaust denial among Israeli Arabs has become more prevalent in recent years. In 2006, 28 percent of Israeli Arabs polled denied that the Holocaust occurred.
The annual poll of Jewish-Arab relations, which was conducted by Professor Sami Samuha, also found that only 41 percent of Israel's Arab minority recognize the country's right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state, as opposed to 65.6 percent in 2003.
Moreover, only 53.7 percent of the Israeli Arab public believe Israel has a right to exist just as an independent country, according to the poll, down from 81.1 percent in 2003.
"This radicalization in the positions of Arabs was caused by a series of factors such as the Second Lebanon War, the stalemate in the negotiations with the Palestinians, the failure to implement the conclusions of the Or committee, closing the case against the Border Police troops who shot dead the Israeli Arab protesters in October 2000, and more," Samuha said.
700 Israeli Arab men and women participated in the survey, which will be published in its entirety on Monday.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086115.htmlQuoteLast update - 21:01 17/05/2009
Poll: 40% of Israeli Arabs believe Holocaust never happened
By Fadi Eyadat, Haaretz Correspondent
Some 40.5 percent of Israeli Arabs believe the Holocaust never occurred, according to the results of a University of Haifa poll released Sunday.
The survey shows that Holocaust denial among Israeli Arabs has become more prevalent in recent years. In 2006, 28 percent of Israeli Arabs polled denied that the Holocaust occurred.
The annual poll of Jewish-Arab relations, which was conducted by Professor Sami Samuha, also found that only 41 percent of Israel's Arab minority recognize the country's right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state, as opposed to 65.6 percent in 2003.
Moreover, only 53.7 percent of the Israeli Arab public believe Israel has a right to exist just as an independent country, according to the poll, down from 81.1 percent in 2003.
"This radicalization in the positions of Arabs was caused by a series of factors such as the Second Lebanon War, the stalemate in the negotiations with the Palestinians, the failure to implement the conclusions of the Or committee, closing the case against the Border Police troops who shot dead the Israeli Arab protesters in October 2000, and more," Samuha said.
700 Israeli Arab men and women participated in the survey, which will be published in its entirety on Monday.
Yeah, keep in mind the Palestinian Arabs have pretty much never liked the Jews there.
During WW2 they were heart and soul for Hitler, not only because he was anti-Jew but because he was anti-British.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086115.html
Last update - 21:01 17/05/2009
Poll: 40% of Israeli Arabs believe Holocaust never happened
By Fadi Eyadat, Haaretz Correspondent
Some 40.5 percent of Israeli Arabs believe the Holocaust never occurred, according to the results of a University of Haifa poll released Sunday.
[ /quote]
^ insert commentary below these brackets.
[ /quote]
^ insert commentary below these brackets.
That wasn't what I missed there was an extra [ quote] stuck in the header. Deleted now for you reading pleasure.
I believe the official version of events, that 6 million jews and 5 million others were killed during the Holocaust.
But at the same time, the existence of Holocaust denial laws in and of itself make me suspicious. It would make sense for Holocaust deniers to be treated as flat-earthers are, i.e. simply laughed off as crazy old men. But instead there's there's all these Holocaust denial laws now. And what's even funnier is you'd think if these laws were ever going to be passed, they'd be passed right after WWII, when the horrors of the Holocaust were freshest in people's minds. But instead the first of these laws weren't passed until 1971 by Spain, and nothing subsequent was passed by any other country until 1985, and most countries that have these laws passed them either in the 90's or 00's.
Iran's Ahmadinejad on Holocaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY
[youtube=425,350]ykd-syzZ4ZY[/youtube]
Harvard Crimson says Holocaust denial ad published by accident
(CNN) -- Harvard University, one of America's premiere academic institutions, is coming under fire for running an advertisement in its campus newspaper questioning the reality of the Holocaust.
Recently named for the second straight year as the No. 1 school in U.S. News & World Report rankings of American colleges, Harvard is known for its rigorous scholarly standards and prestigious reputation.
On Tuesday, however, The Harvard Crimson, in what it said was an error, ran the Holocaust-questioning advertisement, which had been rejected by the paper over the summer.
In response to the commotion created by the ad, Crimson President Maxwell L. Child released a statement Wednesday citing three weeks of summer vacation between the submission of the advertisement and the publication of the paper as the explanation for why the ad "fell through the cracks."
"We want to stress that we do not endorse the views put forth in any advertisement that runs in The Crimson, and this case was no different," Child said in a letter to Crimson readers. "We will work hard to avoid such lapses in communication in the future, and hope our readers will accept that yesterday's error was a logistical failure and not a philosophical one."
The ad, paid for by Holocaust denier Bradley R. Smith and his Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust, primarily raises questions about then-Gen. Dwight Eisenhower's account of World War II and the existence of Nazi gas chambers.
It is widely accepted that approximately 5.7 million of Europe's 7.3 million Jews perished during the war. In total, historians say, between 11 million and 17 million people were killed by the Nazi regime, including religious and political opponents, ethnic Poles, Romani, Jehovah's Witnesses, Soviet civilians and prisoners of war, homosexuals and people with disabilities.
Smith said he is not surprised by the reaction because "it's taboo, and has been taboo from the beginning. When you break a culture-wide taboo, supported in theory and practice by the state, the university and the press, you create a fuss."
Smith said that he made the deal with the Crimson in July, but was never made aware of any plan by the newspaper to cancel his ad. While he has not yet received a refund for his pulled notice, he said he expects the paper to "do the right thing about the money."
Bernie Steinberg, president and director of Harvard Hillel, a Jewish campus organization, said on Wednesday that the advertisement was "obviously a shock to see."
But the group's students reacted appropriately, he said, and the incident should be seen as an example of "extraordinary mature student leadership in response to an unfortunate situation."
The Crimson was very responsive after many people in the Harvard community, including numerous members of Harvard Hillel, contacted the paper expressing their concerns, he said.
Harvard Hillel's student president, Rebecca Gillette, circulated a letter saying she thought the situation was being appropriately addressed. "The fact that organizations and individuals like that publicized in this advertisement still exist today is frightening and disturbing, but unfortunately it seems that Holocaust denial will persist for years to come," she said.
Robert Trestan, civil rights counsel for the Anti-Defamation League of New England, said Smith and his organization have placed ads in approximately 15 college papers around the country so far this year. He said he finds it shocking that such an advertisement would fall through the cracks, as Child said.
"Would an ad that questions whether the world was flat or that slavery never happened in America have fallen through the cracks?" he asked.
He said his organization will continue to work with college newspaper editors to educate schools that they don't have an obligation to publish questionable advertising.
Al Tompkins, a faculty member at the Poynter Institute, billed on its Web site as "a school for journalists, future journalists, and teachers of journalism," said he hopes this will become a "teachable moment."
"It seems to be a big mistake and obviously nothing meant to offend anyone," he said. Because student publications are meant to be teaching tools, "the key is not to not make mistakes, the key is how they respond to mistakes in a forthcoming and transparent manner," he said.
He recommended that the Crimson return any money associated with the advertisement.
Child's statement in the Crimson said that was being done.
Don't like him leave him to his own country where he was legally elected their representative.
Why because as he pointed out during WWII only about 2 million people were in the military at the time
Iran's Ahmadinejad on Holocaust
Don't like him leave him to his own country where he was legally elected their representative.
I also agree there is no other event in human history which has protection laws around it.
France is an anti-semetic cesspool. Fuck em, in so many ways.
He repeatedly denied key historical facts of the Holocaust, penning a book titled "The Hitler We Loved and Why", describing the Nazi leader as a "man of peace" and helping to disseminate a range of anti-Semitic literature.
QuoteHe repeatedly denied key historical facts of the Holocaust, penning a book titled "The Hitler We Loved and Why", describing the Nazi leader as a "man of peace" and helping to disseminate a range of anti-Semitic literature.
:shock: Sounds like he's pretty much an all-round denier.
I don't think that someone yelling, "I'm going to kill you!" can legally (or ethically) get away with it, free speech or not. And, some yahoo saying he's going to blow up government buildings and murder people falls into the same category.
I don't think that someone yelling, "I'm going to kill you!" can legally (or ethically) get away with it, free speech or not. And, some yahoo saying he's going to blow up government buildings and murder people falls into the same category.
I had death threats made against me, and that fella got away with it.
In CA there's penal code that specifically bans death threats and rates them as felonies. I don't think its really enforced though.I don't think that someone yelling, "I'm going to kill you!" can legally (or ethically) get away with it, free speech or not. And, some yahoo saying he's going to blow up government buildings and murder people falls into the same category.
I had death threats made against me, and that fella got away with it.
It's happened to me too.
In CA there's penal code that specifically bans death threats and rates them as felonies. I don't think its really enforced though.I don't think that someone yelling, "I'm going to kill you!" can legally (or ethically) get away with it, free speech or not. And, some yahoo saying he's going to blow up government buildings and murder people falls into the same category.
I had death threats made against me, and that fella got away with it.
It's happened to me too.
Appears it does: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=267601In CA there's penal code that specifically bans death threats and rates them as felonies. I don't think its really enforced though.I don't think that someone yelling, "I'm going to kill you!" can legally (or ethically) get away with it, free speech or not. And, some yahoo saying he's going to blow up government buildings and murder people falls into the same category.
I had death threats made against me, and that fella got away with it.
It's happened to me too.
I bet it depends on who it is getting the threat.
I don't think that someone yelling, "I'm going to kill you!" can legally (or ethically) get away with it, free speech or not. And, some yahoo saying he's going to blow up government buildings and murder people falls into the same category.
Yeah, except words do and can hurt. Very much.So go and cry.
Yeah, except words do and can hurt. Very much.So go and cry.
another 9-page jew-filled waste of time
http://holocartoons.com
I am still waiting to see what is on that site...I only get to "Loading... 34%".
http://holocartoons.comThe website is arabic and english. It claims that the holocaust never happened and then talks about how tragic it was (yeah makes no sense) then shows a bunch of anti-Jew cartoons suggesting that Jews drink blood and are money hungry, have long noses, tails, etc. Talks about how Jews should side with anti-Israel terrorist organizations and makes claims of genocide.
I am still waiting to see what is on that site...I only get to "Loading... 34%".
http://holocartoons.comThe website is arabic and english. It claims that the holocaust never happened and then talks about how tragic it was (yeah makes no sense) then shows a bunch of anti-Jew cartoons suggesting that Jews drink blood and are money hungry, have long noses, tails, etc. Talks about how Jews should side with anti-Israel terrorist organizations and makes claims of genocide.
I am still waiting to see what is on that site...I only get to "Loading... 34%".
Pretty standard for a Palestinian holocaust denial pamphlet. Also pretty fuckin stupid.
Anti-individualism and collectivismhttp://www.stephenhicks.org/tag/nietzsche-as-a-proto-nazi/ (http://www.stephenhicks.org/tag/nietzsche-as-a-proto-nazi/)
We know that the National Socialists were thoroughly collectivistic and strongly anti-individualistic. For them the relevant groups were the Germanic Aryans—and all the others. Individuals were defined by their group identity, and individuals were seen only as vehicles through which the groups achieved their interests. The Nazis rejected the Western liberal idea that individuals are ends in themselves: to the Nazis individuals were merely servants of the groups to which they belong.
The anti-individualism of the Nazis was most blatant in their treatment of Jews. They did not see Jews as individuals with moral significance and rights—rather they saw members of a group they wished to destroy. This meant, as a matter of policy, that the Nazis were uncaring about the lives of individuals and were willing to kill as many individuals as was necessary to achieve their group’s advantage.
Even within their own group, the Nazis did not see Aryan/Germans fundamentally as individuals. They saw them as members of the Volk, the German people, the group to which they owed service, obedience, and even their lives.
Yeah, I'm lying that every page has a different cartoon depicting Jews as some stereotype. Right. I guess you wouldn't see that as bad because you believe all of those stereotypes.
WTF are you talking about and what does it have to do with the website showing tons of anti-jewish propaganda cartoons? You are nuts. Seriously.You are the one who is nuts. You are so tied up in your group identity that you can't see past it. Again the site says several times that it is not anit-Jewish. It is anti-Zionist. ZIONISM is a form of SOCIALISM dumbass. The only thing that distinguishes it from other forms of SOCIALISM is that it's elevated group of choice are secular Jews. The state of Israel is a socialist country or are you so hypnotized by Zionist propaganda you have forgotten that fact. And with the Lukid party in charge it is wrapped up in nationalism. Which if you were to create a word for it, it would be called Judiafascism.
But the law, and Lajos Bokros, are wrong. Wrong because the way to combat Holocaust denial, even in immature democracies, is not legislation but education. Wrong because the law stifles free speech and debate about the Holocaust and other genocides. And wrong because the law turns the Nazi extermination of the Jews into a political football.
In comparison to Romania or Serbia, Hungary has made substantial progress in memorialising the Holocaust. Budapest is home to an excellent, modern and profoundly moving Holocaust museum, housed in a former synagogue. There are numerous Holocaust memorials such as that in the western city of Gyor, listing the city's schoolchildren who were deported to Auschwitz. Holocaust memorial day is commemorated each January in the Hungarian parliament. Films by a new generation of young documentary-makers exploring the Holocaust and its legacy are shown on national television.
Consider the wording of the law. What does it mean to "question the Holocaust"? The history of the Holocaust, like all history, is continually being probed, revised and re-examined. That process leads us further towards the terrible truth of the Holocaust, while laws banning Holocaust denial help stifle that essential debate.
The Holodomor is legally protected in Ukraine, and the Armenian genocide has legal status in both Turkey and Armenia.
Funnily enough, in Israel itself there are no laws against Holocaust denial.
Funnily enough, in Israel itself there are no laws against Holocaust denial.
Denial of Holocaust (Prohibition) Law, 5746-1986
Definitions 1. In this Law, "crime against the Jewish people" and "crime against humanity" have the same respective meanings as in the "Nazis and Nazi Collaborators Law, 5710-1950.
Prohibition of Denial of Holocaust 2. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement denying or diminishing the proportions of acts committed in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, with intent to defend the perpetrators of those acts or to express sympathy or identification with them, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Prohibition of publication of expression for sympathy for Nazi crimes 3. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement expressing praise or sympathy for or identification with acts done in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Permitted publication 4. The publication of a correct and fair report of a publication prohibited by this Law shall not be regarded as an offence thereunder so long as it is not made with intent to express sympathy or identification with the perpetrators of crimes against the Jewish people or against humanity.
Filing of charge 5. An indictment for offences under this Law shall only be filed by or with the consent of the Attorney-General.[30]
The Holodomor is legally protected in Ukraine, and the Armenian genocide has legal status in both Turkey and Armenia.
Funnily enough, in Israel itself there are no laws against Holocaust denial.
The EU did do that and it is completely stupid. The truth doesn't need legal protections. Demanding these sorts of laws says more about those doing the demanding. Because it appears they don't think their truth can stand up to scrutiny. Maintaining freedom of speech is a commendable thing.
Funnily enough, in Israel itself there are no laws against Holocaust denial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#IsraelQuoteDenial of Holocaust (Prohibition) Law, 5746-1986
Definitions 1. In this Law, "crime against the Jewish people" and "crime against humanity" have the same respective meanings as in the "Nazis and Nazi Collaborators Law, 5710-1950.
Prohibition of Denial of Holocaust 2. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement denying or diminishing the proportions of acts committed in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, with intent to defend the perpetrators of those acts or to express sympathy or identification with them, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Prohibition of publication of expression for sympathy for Nazi crimes 3. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement expressing praise or sympathy for or identification with acts done in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Permitted publication 4. The publication of a correct and fair report of a publication prohibited by this Law shall not be regarded as an offence thereunder so long as it is not made with intent to express sympathy or identification with the perpetrators of crimes against the Jewish people or against humanity.
Filing of charge 5. An indictment for offences under this Law shall only be filed by or with the consent of the Attorney-General.[30]
If the vast majority of the founders of my country were people fleeing from a genocidal regime I'd support those kinds of laws too.The Palistinians should have a similar law
Denial of Israeli War Crimes (Prohibition) Law, 5746-1986
Definitions 1. In this Law, "crime against the Palestinian people" and "crime against humanity" have the same respective meanings as in the "Israeli and Israeli Collaborators Law, 5710-1950.
Prohibition of Denial of Israeli war crimes 2. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement denying or diminishing the proportions of acts committed in the period of the Israeli regime, which are crimes against the Palestinian people or crimes against humanity, with intent to defend the perpetrators of those acts or to express sympathy or identification with them, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Prohibition of publication of expression for sympathy for Israeli crimes 3. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement expressing praise or sympathy for or identification with acts done in the period of the Israeli regime, which are crimes against the Palestinian people or crimes against humanity, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Permitted publication 4. The publication of a correct and fair report of a publication prohibited by this Law shall not be regarded as an offence thereunder so long as it is not made with intent to express sympathy or identification with the perpetrators of crimes against people or against humanity.
Filing of charge 5. An indictment for offences under this Law shall only be filed by or with the consent of the Attorney-General.
The Holodomor is legally protected in Ukraine, and the Armenian genocide has legal status in both Turkey and Armenia.
Funnily enough, in Israel itself there are no laws against Holocaust denial.
The EU did do that and it is completely stupid. The truth doesn't need legal protections. Demanding these sorts of laws says more about those doing the demanding. Because it appears they don't think their truth can stand up to scrutiny. Maintaining freedom of speech is a commendable thing.
Maybe if it's a slander against a whole ethnic group practiced by people who obviously come across like they think it should happen again it does deserve to be outlawed. Absolute freedom of speech is not a good thing if it ends up inciting violence against a certain group of people.
Hmm, guess I'm wrong. Not like I blame them. If the vast majority of the founders of my country were people fleeing from a genocidal regime I'd support those kinds of laws too.It is their country but like I said it says more about them than any speech they wish to suppress. Laws like these are only needed to support weak cases and not strong evidence. It follows along the same lines of religious oppression laws. If the people have genuine faith in their religion they shouldn't fear other religions. By passing religious oppression laws or acts they are showing fear that competing religious thought might take away their worshipers. History is littered with examples.
Except the vast majority, in fact perhaps 90 to 99 percent, are using it to deny that anything bad happened to the Jews and it was not the official policy of the Greater German Reich to exterminate Jews, Gypsies, and other assorted ethnic groups they considered to be "racially undesirable."
You have idiots like Ernst Zuendel and David Dees who act as if it didn't happen, but it should have happened and should happen again, but it doesn't exist, and they're totally not racist pigs.
It probably was intended to be so from the start, Hitler openly said in newspaper interviews in the 1920s if elected governor (?) of
he would hang all the Jews in Munich.
And by that I mean he said he would literally have all the Jews hanged from lampposts.
If you've read Mein Kampf then you know that Hitler followed up on all of the promises he made in his early years. Why not this one?
What happened is that it no longer became profitable.
And Rense is not a credible website for Zionism. Rense seems to have a hard-on for anti-Semitism.
Quote from a reviewer: Finally, I think Brenner was right, when he wrote, "This book presents 51 historic documents to indict Zionism for repeated attempts to collaborate with Adolf Hitler. The evidence, not I, will convince you of the truth of this issue...Exposing the Zionist role in the Nazis era is part of the scrutiny of the past, required of historians."
You seem to be presuming that racism is logical. It's not.That's because she is a racist. Every post she makes has to do with how evil the Jews are and how defensible bigoted cartoons are. It's silly.
You seem to be presuming that racism is logical. It's not.That's because she is a racist. Every post she makes has to do with how evil the Jews are and how defensible bigoted cartoons are. It's silly.
You seem to be presuming that racism is logical. It's not.That's because she is a racist. Every post she makes has to do with how evil the Jews are and how defensible bigoted cartoons are. It's silly.
You are the racist. Ever post you make is about how if you don't kiss ZIONIST ass and go along with their racist apartheid agenda some how you are a racist.
ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM
As a ZIONIST you are a racist against Arabs and you defame Muslims at every chance you get.
Lol. Look at this nut, she's having an aneurism because a Jew is laughing at her! I know I'm not a racist, nor are the vast majority of my Jewish friends. Do you get her accusation that I defame Muslims every chance I get? Do you see me doing that? Because I don't. I don't think Davi would think so either because he's of much more sound mind.You seem to be presuming that racism is logical. It's not.That's because she is a racist. Every post she makes has to do with how evil the Jews are and how defensible bigoted cartoons are. It's silly.
You are the racist. Ever post you make is about how if you don't kiss ZIONIST ass and go along with their racist apartheid agenda some how you are a racist.
ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM
As a ZIONIST you are a racist against Arabs and you defame Muslims at every chance you get.
Zionism is based on Judaic principles and is a philosophy held by the great majority of Jews and helped to found their state of Israel. Therefore, it is virtually one and the same.
Also, not all Zionists defame Muslims every chance they get. Muslims do a very good job of doing it themselves.
You seem to be presuming that racism is logical. It's not.That's because she is a racist. Every post she makes has to do with how evil the Jews are and how defensible bigoted cartoons are. It's silly.
You are the racist. Ever post you make is about how if you don't kiss ZIONIST ass and go along with their racist apartheid agenda some how you are a racist.
ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM
As a ZIONIST you are a racist against Arabs and you defame Muslims at every chance you get.
Zionism is based on Judaic principles and is a philosophy held by the great majority of Jews and helped to found their state of Israel. Therefore, it is virtually one and the same.
Also, not all Zionists defame Muslims every chance they get. Muslims do a very good job of doing it themselves.
Lol. Look at this nut, she's having an aneurism because a Jew is laughing at her! I know I'm not a racist, nor are the vast majority of my Jewish friends. Do you get her accusation that I defame Muslims every chance I get? Do you see me doing that? Because I don't. I don't think Davi would think so either because he's of much more sound mind.You seem to be presuming that racism is logical. It's not.That's because she is a racist. Every post she makes has to do with how evil the Jews are and how defensible bigoted cartoons are. It's silly.
You are the racist. Ever post you make is about how if you don't kiss ZIONIST ass and go along with their racist apartheid agenda some how you are a racist.
ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM ZIONISM is not JUDAISM
As a ZIONIST you are a racist against Arabs and you defame Muslims at every chance you get.
Zionism is based on Judaic principles and is a philosophy held by the great majority of Jews and helped to found their state of Israel. Therefore, it is virtually one and the same.
Also, not all Zionists defame Muslims every chance they get. Muslims do a very good job of doing it themselves.
If anyone is curious what a closet bigot looks like they need only look at "L.L." whose highly ironic screen name defames all anti-racists and freedom lovers.
Watch her defend the bigoted holocaust deniers some more, maybe she'll link to one of those cartoons from her favorite website depicting Jews with gigantic noses and long horned tails.
This is a very good article on the subject, from RationalWiki (and where I got the gif from)
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
Revisionists object to the terminology, "THE Holocaust," which by implication suggests it was unique, monumental, over-arching, perhaps even the central historical event of our century if not epoch. In fact there have been many holocausts over the centuries, a good portion of them in our own Twentieth century. The Jewish Holocaust is merely one of them, and not even one of the more vicious ones.
From the point of view of the world as a whole it is far from the greatest or most terrible, Hollywood to the contrary notwithstanding. A marked improvement in both accuracy and objectivity can be achieved if the term "Jewish Holocaust" is substituted for the term "THE Holocaust."
http://www.revisionists.com/revisionism.htmlQuoteRevisionists object to the terminology, "THE Holocaust," which by implication suggests it was unique, monumental, over-arching, perhaps even the central historical event of our century if not epoch. In fact there have been many holocausts over the centuries, a good portion of them in our own Twentieth century. The Jewish Holocaust is merely one of them, and not even one of the more vicious ones.
From the point of view of the world as a whole it is far from the greatest or most terrible, Hollywood to the contrary notwithstanding. A marked improvement in both accuracy and objectivity can be achieved if the term "Jewish Holocaust" is substituted for the term "THE Holocaust."
But Blackie don't you know anyone who questions the official history is anti-Semitic automatically. And if that person happens to be a Jewish authority at the Holocaust museum they must be a self-hating Jew. And don't you dare question how a self-hating Jew got a job there in the first place as that would make you anti-Semitic. Questions of physics and scope have no business messing with the agreed upon history. By God if we say that a cake of soap is made out of human fat, it is made out of human fat cause only an anti-Semitic test kit would prove otherwise. And that the clothing of the condemned towered upwards of 10 stories high without any structural support is not an impossibility to say otherwise diminishes the deaths of Jewish people during WWII. Blackie you have to believe every single last detail as told or else you are this horrible racist person. In fact simply by posting that article you are an Anti-Semite.
This is a very good article on the subject, from RationalWiki (and where I got the gif from)
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
http://www.revisionists.com/revisionism.htmlQuoteRevisionists object to the terminology, "THE Holocaust," which by implication suggests it was unique, monumental, over-arching, perhaps even the central historical event of our century if not epoch. In fact there have been many holocausts over the centuries, a good portion of them in our own Twentieth century. The Jewish Holocaust is merely one of them, and not even one of the more vicious ones.
From the point of view of the world as a whole it is far from the greatest or most terrible, Hollywood to the contrary notwithstanding. A marked improvement in both accuracy and objectivity can be achieved if the term "Jewish Holocaust" is substituted for the term "THE Holocaust."
This is a very good article on the subject, from RationalWiki (and where I got the gif from)
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
http://www.revisionists.com/revisionism.htmlQuoteRevisionists object to the terminology, "THE Holocaust," which by implication suggests it was unique, monumental, over-arching, perhaps even the central historical event of our century if not epoch. In fact there have been many holocausts over the centuries, a good portion of them in our own Twentieth century. The Jewish Holocaust is merely one of them, and not even one of the more vicious ones.
From the point of view of the world as a whole it is far from the greatest or most terrible, Hollywood to the contrary notwithstanding. A marked improvement in both accuracy and objectivity can be achieved if the term "Jewish Holocaust" is substituted for the term "THE Holocaust."
Right,except there were Romani,gays, and Jehovah's Witnesses sent to the camps.
Modern scholarship defines "The Holocaust" as:
* The planned murder - the plan
* of five to seven million Jews - the number
* mainly carried out with gas chambers - the method
Also, I've never seriously used the word "Islamofascism" in my life nor do those Jews you've posted represent the vast majority of Jews ... Jews against Zionism are usually either in first-world countries like America and Canada, far removed from Israel, or are ultra-Orthodox nutbags IN Israel.
It's also certainly a Muslim principle to defame Jews. One of the Hadiths states, ""Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones or trees, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the Gharqad, which is a tree of the Jews."
Also, I've never seriously used the word "Islamofascism" in my life nor do those Jews you've posted represent the vast majority of Jews ... Jews against Zionism are usually either in first-world countries like America and Canada, far removed from Israel, or are ultra-Orthodox nutbags IN Israel.
It's also certainly a Muslim principle to defame Jews. One of the Hadiths states, ""Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones or trees, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the Gharqad, which is a tree of the Jews."
The anti Zionism Hasidim are called Naturei Karta. A few of them live here in my town. They're not popular guys.
As to Ultra-Orthodoxy, I always hated that term.
Also, I've never seriously used the word "Islamofascism" in my life nor do those Jews you've posted represent the vast majority of Jews ... Jews against Zionism are usually either in first-world countries like America and Canada, far removed from Israel, or are ultra-Orthodox nutbags IN Israel.
It's also certainly a Muslim principle to defame Jews. One of the Hadiths states, ""Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones or trees, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the Gharqad, which is a tree of the Jews."
The anti Zionism Hasidim are called Naturei Karta. A few of them live here in my town. They're not popular guys.
As to Ultra-Orthodoxy, I always hated that term.
are you okay with me saying "crazy motherfuckers" then?
Also, I've never seriously used the word "Islamofascism" in my life nor do those Jews you've posted represent the vast majority of Jews ... Jews against Zionism are usually either in first-world countries like America and Canada, far removed from Israel, or are ultra-Orthodox nutbags IN Israel.
It's also certainly a Muslim principle to defame Jews. One of the Hadiths states, ""Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones or trees, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the Gharqad, which is a tree of the Jews."
The anti Zionism Hasidim are called Naturei Karta. A few of them live here in my town. They're not popular guys.
As to Ultra-Orthodoxy, I always hated that term.
are you okay with me saying "crazy motherfuckers" then?
In reference to whom?
Also, I've never seriously used the word "Islamofascism" in my life nor do those Jews you've posted represent the vast majority of Jews ... Jews against Zionism are usually either in first-world countries like America and Canada, far removed from Israel, or are ultra-Orthodox nutbags IN Israel.
It's also certainly a Muslim principle to defame Jews. One of the Hadiths states, ""Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones or trees, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the Gharqad, which is a tree of the Jews."
Anti-Islam rhetoric today bears a disturbing resemblance to past anti-Jewish rhetoric
Many books and websites clamor for our attention with claims that Islam:
* is not a religion;
* is of the devil;
* seeks world domination;
* and they also claim that Koran and Hadith teach hatred.
Often such claims are accompanied by images of and quotes from Muslims or quotes from the Koran and Hadith that seem to support them.
These are the same claims made against the Judaism by Nazi propagandists in the 1930s and 40s.
* is not a religion;
* is of the devil;
* seeks world domination;
* and they also claim that the Torah and Talmud teach hatred
These propaganda materials are also accompanied by images of and quotes from Jews and from the Torah and Talmud that seem to support them.
Propagandists never tell the whole story, and what they do tell is demonstrably false misleading. Careful examination of the claims of propagandists, both past and present, demonstrates that they are engaging in logical fallacies, using selective partial quotes without regard to any larger context, or even outright misquotes, claiming the text says something it does not. ....... http://www.examiner.com/religion-politics-in-miami/anti-islam-rhetoric-today-bears-a-disturbing-resemblance-to-past-anti-jewish-rhetoric (http://www.examiner.com/religion-politics-in-miami/anti-islam-rhetoric-today-bears-a-disturbing-resemblance-to-past-anti-jewish-rhetoric)
Also, I've never seriously used the word "Islamofascism" in my life nor do those Jews you've posted represent the vast majority of Jews ... Jews against Zionism are usually either in first-world countries like America and Canada, far removed from Israel, or are ultra-Orthodox nutbags IN Israel.
It's also certainly a Muslim principle to defame Jews. One of the Hadiths states, ""Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones or trees, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the Gharqad, which is a tree of the Jews."
The anti Zionism Hasidim are called Naturei Karta. A few of them live here in my town. They're not popular guys.
As to Ultra-Orthodoxy, I always hated that term.
are you okay with me saying "crazy motherfuckers" then?
In reference to whom?
the "ultra-orthodox"
"crazy fucking fundies" is also acceptable
I don't think of myself as a crazy fundie.
Also, I've never seriously used the word "Islamofascism" in my life nor do those Jews you've posted represent the vast majority of Jews ... Jews against Zionism are usually either in first-world countries like America and Canada, far removed from Israel, or are ultra-Orthodox nutbags IN Israel.
It's also certainly a Muslim principle to defame Jews. One of the Hadiths states, ""Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones or trees, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the Gharqad, which is a tree of the Jews."
The anti Zionism Hasidim are called Naturei Karta. A few of them live here in my town. They're not popular guys.
As to Ultra-Orthodoxy, I always hated that term.
are you okay with me saying "crazy motherfuckers" then?
In reference to whom?
the "ultra-orthodox"
"crazy fucking fundies" is also acceptable
You think its accurate?
I don't think of myself as a crazy fundie.
How is using the term "Islamofascism" defamatory against all Muslims? That's just insane. That's like saying the term "Republican" is defamatory against all Christians.
Clearly you are in fact retarded.How is using the term "Islamofascism" defamatory against all Muslims? That's just insane. That's like saying the term "Republican" is defamatory against all Christians.
You can't seem to help the fact you are retarded. Or you think that other people don't see through an obvious propaganda technique.
How about lets make up a new word for the military buildup and racist policies of Israel with it's out of control nationalism. Policies which threatens Lebanon, Iran, Gaza, the West Bank and ultimately the world. The new term shall be ZioNazism and the follows shall be called ZioNazis. So according to you, Admiral ZioNazi no one should have a problem.
Hadiths are oral traditions and not given the same validity as the Quran.
QuoteHadiths are oral traditions and not given the same validity as the Quran.
That's actually not true, try again.
You are basically saying that "All Jews are racist", and that makes you not bigoted exactly how? You side with holocaust deniers who distribute racist cartoons depicting Jews, and then claim that all Jews essentially are bad racists, and claim that you are not in fact a bigot? You are an idiot if you cannot see the fail in that logic, not to mention a bigot.
This doesn't change the fact that the Hadiths are second only to the Koran in importance in Islam, and Quran-only Muslims are pretty fucking rare. In addition, if the quotation of something from the holy book of a religion is invalid in describing the religion, well, then why bother defending the adherents of that religion at all if you consider their holy books to be worthless regarding them?Dumbass the point it that Hadiths are not followed by all sects of Islam. There are 73 sects of Islam. The Sunni Hadiths are not all the same as the Shina Hadiths which represent the two major branches of Islam. Also, you are quoting and interpreting the Hadith out of historical and regional context. This is the same thing that the Nazi propagandist did against the European Jews.
As Robin Wright says, “mining the Qur’an for incendiary quotes is essentially pointless. Religions evolve, and there is usually enough ambiguity in their founding scriptures to let them evolve in any direction. If Osama Bin Laden were a Christian, and he still wanted to destroy the World Trade Center, he would cite Jesus’ rampage against the money-changers. If he didn’t want to destroy the World Trade Center, he could stress the Sermon on the Mount.” Even if one doesn’t agree with this view, the point is that every religion-or secular ideology, for that matter-offers the possibility of violence and peace, oppression and liberation, depending on who is interpreting it, how, and in what particular contexts.
"L.L."
Read the bible Jews are evil, don't read the Quran, Muslims are the best
Quote"L.L."
Read the bible Jews are evil, don't read the Quran, Muslims are the best
Nothing new huh?
Okay, give one quotation of me being racist. We've got plenty from you representing hatred towards Jews, hell every other post you make is full of it. It's like your bible is the Elders of Zion. Do you have anything else to say? Because every other post from you is about that.Quote"L.L."
Read the bible Jews are evil, don't read the Quran, Muslims are the best
Nothing new huh?
Nothing new from you Admiral ZioNazi. You are completely misrepresenting my point but that is was bigots like you do isn't it.
Okay, give one quotation of me being racist. We've got plenty from you representing hatred towards Jews, hell every other post you make is full of it. It's like your bible is the Elders of Zion. Do you have anything else to say? Because every other post from you is about that.Quote"L.L."
Read the bible Jews are evil, don't read the Quran, Muslims are the best
Nothing new huh?
Nothing new from you Admiral ZioNazi. You are completely misrepresenting my point but that is was bigots like you do isn't it.
If you're trying to convince me that Christianity is a pointless religion that has caused lots of destruction in the world, well, I was already convinced of that.My point wasn't to add to your anti-Christian bigotry but to point out that all religions can be propagandized against.
Likewise, why is it that there doesn't seem to be anything resembling "human rights" in Muslim countries, and why are "Islamic Republics" usually brutal dictatorships?
Right, so why is stoning legal in states under Sharia law?
Or killing apostates?
Right, so why is stoning legal in states under Sharia law?
Or killing apostates?
Why is the death penalty legal anywhere? Israel and America both have the death penalty. In America there are any number of horrible forms of execution that can be used. Why is there a death penalty in some Asian countries for simply selling and possessing Marijuana? Just because something seems culturally justified in one place doesn't mean it is so in another. There are places where people would consider any death penalty uncivilized. Are they morally superior to the people in America, Asia, Israel, or places that still practice a strict interpretation of Sharia law?
Right, so why is stoning legal in states under Sharia law?
Or killing apostates?
Why is the death penalty legal anywhere? Israel and America both have the death penalty. In America there are any number of horrible forms of execution that can be used. Why is there a death penalty in some Asian countries for simply selling and possessing Marijuana? Just because something seems culturally justified in one place doesn't mean it is so in another. There are places where people would consider any death penalty uncivilized. Are they morally superior to the people in America, Asia, Israel, or places that still practice a strict interpretation of Sharia law?
You haven't answered my question.
Do you consider it right for a culture to practice public stoning of women who have been raped, or killing apostates?
And by the way, I do agree with the death penalty, but only in very rare cases like a serial murderer, a serial rapist (frequently the same thing), or terrorists against civilian targets.
And most Asian countries also come across as morally superior than those countries which practice Sharia law, yes.
She's gone all incomprehensible now. I have no idea wtf she is talking about anymore. This is hilarious. Now we're anti-Christian and anti-Islam bigots lmao.
Christianity is full of bullshit, Judaism is full of bullshit, the only reason I care about Islam is because the Islamic countries that are under Islamic law are barbarian shitholes full of misogyny and violence.
There are many more contemporary examples of women leading Muslim-majority countries. Remarkably, a majority of all Muslims in the world live in countries that have, at some time, elected women as their leaders.[4] Indeed, four of the five most populous Muslim-majority countries have had women as leaders:(sourse Wikipedia)
* Indonesia, the most populous Muslim-majority country, elected Megawati Sukarnoputri as president[5]
* Pakistan, the second most populous Muslim-majority country, twice (non-consecutively) elected Benazir Bhutto as prime minister[6]
* Bangladesh, the third most populous Muslim-majority country, elected Khaleda Zia[7] and Sheikh Hasina as prime ministers
* Turkey, the fifth most populous Muslim-majority country, elected Tansu Çiller as prime minister[8]
See also: List of the first female holders of political offices
Women still face many pressures as political leaders.[9]
Some Muslim women hold important positions in some governments, political parties and corporations. A paradoxical example is the banned Islamist party of Morocco, Al Adl Wa Al Ihssane (Justice and Charity). Since the leader cannot speak openly, his daughter Nadia Yassine is the one who publicly defends the opposition to the Mudawana, government-sponsored reforms on the legal status of Moroccan women.
Except Islamic countries expressly take their law system from Sharia law. Try again.The countries which follow ancient interpretation of Sharia law are also Monarchies or Dictatorships. They are no worse than any of the dictatorship, monarchies or communist countries I listed which are not Islamic . And in fact some of them are better places to live than non-Islamic counter parts.
And if you think Pakistan is such a progressive country for human rights, by all means, move there.
Zimbabwe's kind of a shithole, so I'd rather not live there.
Perhaps you should go and try to start a Christian church in Kuwait.