Help me pick out a semi-auto .308 please.

[Evil Muppet]

This might be a radical suggestion.

If you want a semi-auto .308 which is accurate why not also look into semi-auto hunting rifles? 

PROTIP: Magazine fed semi-auto rifles in .308/7.62x51 are called battle rifles.

So now you are a pro?  Is that why you need advice? 

Now here is a real protip.  .308 is not the same as a 7.62x51.  It is not recommended using .308 in a mil-surp rifle. 

Also, the difference between many military firearms and civilian firearms is mostly cosmetic.  Military likes using plastic and pistol grips while civilians tend towards wood.

and many of your semi-auto hunting rifles takes magazines.

Here is an interesting rifle. 



This rifle basically looks like a souped up hunting rifle.  It is made by FN Herstal and is supposed to be very reliable, sub-MOA accurate, takes AR-10 magazines and costs about $1500. 

[Rusty Nut]

Pistol grip and rails all over it is your idea of a deer rifle?

[Evil Muppet]

My idea of a deer rifle is anything that is large enough and accurate enough to kill a deer.  I'd go with a bolt action over an autoloader any day personally but my current deer rifle of choice is a Thompson Center Encore.  A very nice and very accurate single shot.     



and I'd actually like that one rifle if it better if it didn't have a pistol grip.  The rails are just really handy though.  It is also based off the Browning BAR which is a pretty good design.  That gun is made by the same people who make most of the machine guns for the US military.   

Considering that you seem to want accuracy over some of the other qualities this is something to consider.

Of the 'battle rifles' mentioned.  Only two of them are really good candidates for sniper rifles.  The AR-10 and the M-14/M1A.  There might be a reason for that.   The M-14 has been used by the Army for their sniper rifle for many years.  They call it the M-21 I believe.  I don't think the FN-FAL has ever been made into a decent sniper rifle and the only HK G-3 sniper rifle that I've seen is extremely expensive.  The M-14 is also used for competition shooting.  I have yet to find match grade triggers for an FN-FAL and I don't even know if they sell match grade triggers for the ptr-91. 

Of course your accuracy is usually limited by the shooter and not the equipment.   

[John Shaw]

I get 1.5MOA at 100 yards with Malaysian surplus from 1985 in my Century FAL.

I did have custom trigger and barrel work done, however.

Probably cost me an extra $400.

But here's the thing:

A. The FAL and the AR-10 (Which is no more accurate, from my experiences of 5+ models) are not sniper rifles.

B. An off the shelf M-14, even a custom job, is not a ready made sniper rifle. It is not anywhere near the accuracy of an M-21. The M-21 uses the same action, but the barrel and stock are totally different. The barrel is floated, for one, which is a night and day difference. They are not the same gun any more than than an M-24 the same as a Remington 700, which also share the same action.


If you want a long range accuracy gun, you buy a gun that is designed for long range accuracy. PROTIP: It will more likely than not be a bolt action rifle.

Having said that, 90+ percent of people can't hit at less than 3 minutes of angle anyway. Make sure you're that good before you waste the money on a gun that can do something that you can't.

[BobRobertson]

Make sure you're that good before you waste the money on a gun that can do something that you can't.

Which requires having a rifle that can, before you can know if it's you or not. 

[John Shaw]

Make sure you're that good before you waste the money on a gun that can do something that you can't.

Which requires having a rifle that can, before you can know if it's you or not. 

You've never shot someone else's gun? (Like, by asking people at just about ANY RANGE?)

You've never gone to a range where they rent guns? (Like, almost EVERY RANGE owned by a gun shop?)

"Try before you buy" is more common with guns than it is with cars.

Please.

[Osborne]

Make sure you're that good before you waste the money on a gun that can do something that you can't.

I cannot hurl projectiles at 1000 meters per second. Should I not purchase a firearm? 

[John Shaw]

Make sure you're that good before you waste the money on a gun that can do something that you can't.

I cannot hurl projectiles at 1000 meters per second. Should I not purchase a firearm? 

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I lose.

[Manuel_OKelly]

Yeah, I have a completely different take on that. If you buy a super awesomely accurate rifle or handgun then you'll know if you suck.

How many people are out there right now saying, "I have 2" groups at 75 yards but it's just an old m1 Garand."

Maybe none, but I have one other anecdote.

The range master at my local indoor pistol range was on duty one day, and some guys brought in a sweet new 1911. It wasn't long before they were all complaining. "Ah man! These sights are off! They sent me a pistol with the sights off, from the fucking factory!" Well they apparently wanted a more professional opinion so they asked the range master to shoot it. A double tap right in the center of the target at 15 yards later, they knew the sights weren't off, they were.

[Evil Muppet]

I get 1.5MOA at 100 yards with Malaysian surplus from 1985 in my Century FAL.

I did have custom trigger and barrel work done, however.

Probably cost me an extra $400.

But here's the thing:

A. The FAL and the AR-10 (Which is no more accurate, from my experiences of 5+ models) are not sniper rifles.

B. An off the shelf M-14, even a custom job, is not a ready made sniper rifle. It is not anywhere near the accuracy of an M-21. The M-21 uses the same action, but the barrel and stock are totally different. The barrel is floated, for one, which is a night and day difference. They are not the same gun any more than than an M-24 the same as a Remington 700, which also share the same action.


If you want a long range accuracy gun, you buy a gun that is designed for long range accuracy. PROTIP: It will more likely than not be a bolt action rifle.

Having said that, 90+ percent of people can't hit at less than 3 minutes of angle anyway. Make sure you're that good before you waste the money on a gun that can do something that you can't.

Very few guns are ready made sniper rifles off the shelf but there are reasons why certain rifles are used over others. 

[John Shaw]

Very few guns are ready made sniper rifles off the shelf but there are reasons why certain rifles are used over others. 

I don't understand what that has to do with anything I said.

[Rusty Nut]

I really want a 1 moa semi-auto .308, thinkin' I should buy an ar10 lower and build it up.

[BonerJoe]

I really want a 1 moa semi-auto .308, thinkin' I should buy an ar10 lower and build it up.

GUESS YOU DIDN'T NEED ANY FUCKING HELP THEN

[John Shaw]

I really want a 1 moa semi-auto .308, thinkin' I should buy an ar10 lower and build it up.

If you're gonna go with an AR platform, look into cryogenic accuritization for the barrel.

Like I said before, the AR-10 off the shelf isn't any more accurate than an FN-FAL, and they are harder to clean. Anyone who tells you otherwise has obviously not shot both guns a lot.

I own both and prefer the FAL, for what it's worth. Sturdier, easier to maintain, less prone to fouling, and if it does foul you can crank the gas pressure dial up and blow the shit right out.

It's also cooler looking.

EDIT: Also, here's one that's been made into a long range gun:

(TOP)

[Rusty Nut]

GUESS YOU DIDN'T NEED ANY FUCKING HELP THEN

Haven't decided yet just reluctant about fal accuracy, like I said I want a 1 moa rifle.  I'm a somewhat decent marksman and I don't want inaccurate rifle shitting all over my paper.

I really want a 1 moa semi-auto .308, thinkin' I should buy an ar10 lower and build it up.

If you're gonna go with an AR platform, look into cryogenic accuritization for the barrel.

Like I said before, the AR-10 off the shelf isn't any more accurate than an FN-FAL, and they are harder to clean. Anyone who tells you otherwise has obviously not shot both guns a lot.

I own both and prefer the FAL, for what it's worth. Sturdier, easier to maintain, less prone to fouling, and if it does foul you can crank the gas pressure dial up and blow the shit right out.

It's also cooler looking.

EDIT: Also, here's one that's been made into a long range gun:

(TOP)

Hmmmm