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Author Topic: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009  (Read 72546 times)

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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #255 on: April 17, 2009, 09:40:18 AM »

Completely agree, and all the hype about this on FTL is starting to wear thin on me.  I signed up a few months ago for the FSP because I liked the idea.  But I'm now not sure I want to be associated with this group.  I understand not EVERYONE who is in the FSP is practicing CD, but CD is giving the FSP a bad name.

Here's my idea of what I thought the FSP was:
I save up some money to pay off some debts while looking for a job in NH to replace my current job in NY.  Meanwhile also scouting out places to rent or buy.  I planned on moving in 2 years or so.  My thought was that I was making myself more free by moving to a state that valued personal freedoms.  I didn't have any intentions of breaking laws for the purpose of breaking laws.  I wanted to go there to be away from the chains of NY state.  Find a decent paying job, meet people that have the same ideals as me, and maybe do some activism.

With all these CD'ers running around trying to intentionally rile up the sleeping giant, I'm not so sure I want to be a part of that.  If you poke a sleeping bear with a stick one time too many, you will eventually get your ass kicked, miss part of your face, be paralyzed, or maybe killed.  I see CD as not providing information that I legally don't have to provide if asked by a cop.  I don't see CD as breaking laws hoping that the giant will rethink it's decisions.

It doesn't matter that it's non-violent.  It's intentionally pissing people off and interfering in their lives without being provoked.

In all honesty, if this stuff keeps up, I may end up canceling my AMP subscription.  I could be completely wrong about all this and maybe what Sam and the other CD'ers are doing might make a difference.  I'll hold my decision for a few more weeks.  You guys are attracting the wrong group of people who just want to start stuff because they think it's wrong and not realizing that you're probably doing more harm than good, and probably endangering the freedom of those around you more than helping it.

Case in point.

People are being held back from moving by the behavior of the CD crowd.

Shaw's evidence: 1
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #256 on: April 17, 2009, 09:46:59 AM »


Case in point.

People are being held back from moving by the behavior of the CD crowd.

Shaw's evidence: 1

According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.

FSP: 701  Shaw: 1
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #257 on: April 17, 2009, 09:50:00 AM »

According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.

FSP: 701  Shaw: 1

LOL 700.

Dude, why don't you read up on the history of the FSP and it's claims, number wise, before you start quoting numbers from their site.

Look into "2006 is the end of the project if 20,000 people aren't found."

Please.

Shaw: Many more.
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #258 on: April 17, 2009, 09:57:15 AM »

Oh, and just for the record, the FSP is also competing with this:

Quote
In the period 1995–2000, 162,250 people moved into the state and 134,347 moved out, for a net gain of 27,903, of whom came from Massachusetts.

http://www.city-data.com/states/New-Hampshire-Migration.html


Yeah.
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #259 on: April 17, 2009, 09:58:24 AM »

According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.

FSP: 701  Shaw: 1

LOL 700.

Dude, why don't you read up on the history of the FSP and it's claims, number wise, before you start quoting numbers from their site.

Look into "2006 is the end of the project if 20,000 people aren't found."

Please.

Shaw: Many more.

What are you talking about?  Obviously 2006 was not the end of the project.
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blackie

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #260 on: April 17, 2009, 09:59:02 AM »

According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.
No, that would be 701 "already in NH". 255 of those were in NH before the state vote.

And didn't 1030 people pledge to move to NH before the end of 2008?

http://www.pledgebank.com/First1000
Quote
"I will move to New Hampshire by 12/31/2008 where I will work to bring about a society in which government’s maximum role is protecting life, liberty, and property but only if 999 other liberty minded individuals will do the same."

These silly pledges don't work, and that is what the FSP is based on.
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #261 on: April 17, 2009, 10:00:53 AM »

Oh, and just for the record, the FSP is also competing with this:

Quote
In the period 1995–2000, 162,250 people moved into the state and 134,347 moved out, for a net gain of 27,903, of whom came from Massachusetts.

http://www.city-data.com/states/New-Hampshire-Migration.html


Yeah.

We are talking about whether FSP actions are causing people to not move to NH.  I do not know what this has to do with the conversation.
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #262 on: April 17, 2009, 10:01:08 AM »

According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.

FSP: 701  Shaw: 1

LOL 700.

Dude, why don't you read up on the history of the FSP and it's claims, number wise, before you start quoting numbers from their site.

Look into "2006 is the end of the project if 20,000 people aren't found."

Please.

Shaw: Many more.

What are you talking about?  Obviously 2006 was not the end of the project.

ROFL. Yeah, yeah it was. It just kept going in contradiction to the original agreement that everyone who signed up before 2006 made. All pre October 2006 FSP numbers are invalid. Please educate yourself before arguing with me about this, because this information is out there and easily verifiable.
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blackie

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #263 on: April 17, 2009, 10:03:51 AM »

According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.

FSP: 701  Shaw: 1

LOL 700.

Dude, why don't you read up on the history of the FSP and it's claims, number wise, before you start quoting numbers from their site.

Look into "2006 is the end of the project if 20,000 people aren't found."

Please.

Shaw: Many more.

What are you talking about?  Obviously 2006 was not the end of the project.

http://www.freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/Speech_WYLP.php

Quote
We have a definite timeline. The plan is to wait until we have 5,000 members before voting on which state; we had to have those 5,000 signatures no later than 3 years from the start of the project. That's September of 2004, and we currently anticipate reach 5,000 by September of 2003. Once the state has been chosen, we will wait until we have 20,000 members before initiating the move; if we don't have 20,000 signatures in 5 years (that's September of 2006), we close up shop. Finally, members have 5 years from the time the 20,000 mark is reached to move. The reason for these deadlines is so this won't turn into an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members.

I guess the FSP decided to become "an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members."

http://www.freestateproject.org/news/releases/1000members.php
Quote
The membership numbers over the past year indicate that the project will meet its self-imposed deadline of September 2006 for the beginning of the move. The Free State Project has grown on average 25% each month; at this rate, the ultimate goal of 20,000 will be reached by the middle of 2003. As long as the membership continues to grow by at least 10% each month, the Project will reach its goal by early 2005 at the latest.
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #264 on: April 17, 2009, 10:05:08 AM »


What are you talking about?  Obviously 2006 was not the end of the project.

ROFL. Yeah, yeah it was. It just kept going in contradiction to the original agreement that everyone who signed up before 2006 made. All pre October 2006 FSP numbers are invalid. Please educate yourself before arguing with me about this, because this information is out there and easily verifiable.


I am just saying that regardless of it saying 2006 is the end of the project, obviously it has not ended.

As to whether or not pre 10/2006 numbers are valid or not is up for debate.
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #265 on: April 17, 2009, 10:05:55 AM »

We are talking about whether FSP actions are causing people to not move to NH.  I do not know what this has to do with the conversation.

We are talking about the FSP as a whole as well.

But yeah, just skate on by the uncomfortable truth.

The FSP lies about its membership numbers. This is well known. I can name... Let me look up my list O' friends here... Correction - I know personally, exactly 43 people who signed up for the FSP, tried to have their names removed from membership, (And were denied) and have since moved elsewhere to find more freedom, because of differences with the current participants of the FSP, CD included.

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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #266 on: April 17, 2009, 10:07:18 AM »


Quote
We have a definite timeline. The plan is to wait until we have 5,000 members before voting on which state; we had to have those 5,000 signatures no later than 3 years from the start of the project. That's September of 2004, and we currently anticipate reach 5,000 by September of 2003. Once the state has been chosen, we will wait until we have 20,000 members before initiating the move; if we don't have 20,000 signatures in 5 years (that's September of 2006), we close up shop. Finally, members have 5 years from the time the 20,000 mark is reached to move. The reason for these deadlines is so this won't turn into an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members.

I guess the FSP decided to become "an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members."


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, that is tooooo funny!
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #267 on: April 17, 2009, 10:07:39 AM »

I am just saying that regardless of it saying 2006 is the end of the project, obviously it has not ended.

It did for almost all the pre 2006 membership, which is still listed as active members.

As to whether or not pre 10/2006 numbers are valid or not is up for debate.

Oh, it is indeed, sport,
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #268 on: April 17, 2009, 10:08:29 AM »

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, that is tooooo funny!

You're laughing at a quote from a FSP honcho, you realize this?

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slayerboy

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #269 on: April 17, 2009, 10:10:26 AM »


Quote
We have a definite timeline. The plan is to wait until we have 5,000 members before voting on which state; we had to have those 5,000 signatures no later than 3 years from the start of the project. That's September of 2004, and we currently anticipate reach 5,000 by September of 2003. Once the state has been chosen, we will wait until we have 20,000 members before initiating the move; if we don't have 20,000 signatures in 5 years (that's September of 2006), we close up shop. Finally, members have 5 years from the time the 20,000 mark is reached to move. The reason for these deadlines is so this won't turn into an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members.

I guess the FSP decided to become "an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members."


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, that is tooooo funny!

This is not.... http://uk.reuters.com/article/usTopNews/idUKTRE53G0P820090417

Just read that and think about it.  This is why I don't want to be associated with the FSP if this CD stuff keeps up.
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