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Author Topic: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009  (Read 81230 times)

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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #210 on: April 16, 2009, 12:22:56 PM »

I think Shaw is making some really valid points that I actually never even considered, makes it seem more “real life” I guess.

I still think it's cool what they are doing and makes me excited when I see that people are standing up for themselves and their rights. It is terrible what they are doing to people ALL over the country; I don’t see what moving to NH has to do with anything. 


People outside of NH are "standing up for their rights"?

Please tell me you are being facetious.  :shock:



I don't think protesting or getting elected is "standing for your rights".
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Keels

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #211 on: April 16, 2009, 12:34:02 PM »

I think Shaw is making some really valid points that I actually never even considered, makes it seem more “real life” I guess.

I still think it's cool what they are doing and makes me excited when I see that people are standing up for themselves and their rights. It is terrible what they are doing to people ALL over the country; I don’t see what moving to NH has to do with anything. 


People outside of NH are "standing up for their rights"?

Please tell me you are being facetious.  :shock:



I don't think protesting or getting elected is "standing for your rights".

So you're saying that the only type of real standing for your rights activism going on in the entire country is only happening in NH?
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #212 on: April 16, 2009, 12:36:14 PM »

Let me know when you grow up and are willing to have an honest discussion.

You seriously gonna claim that I'm being fucking dishonest when you can't be fucking bothered to go one page back and read my fucking posts?

Here, ya lazy fuck. Read it an weep.

Also, go fuck yourself. I don't need this shit. Don't bother responding, because you already look like a damned fool.



I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.  

Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.

CD will not become very productive at changing the state until there are enough activists.  

I have determined that this is exactly why the FSP isn't going to effect change. "Enough activists" means "Our gang". You can't fight collectivism with collectivism, and that's exactly what it seems like the early movers are trying to do: Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.

And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed.  

Not through CD.

The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.

Study up on the 1960's. There were riots on college campuses that had crowds that big. A couple hundred cops, some tear gas and some fire hoses sorted them right the fuck out.

You have a small crowd, and the thugs will round a few people up until everyone disperses, which is exactly what happened the other day.

You have a giant crowd, and they get the riot gear out and start shooting people with bean bags and rubber bullets, and they will stomp the shit out of whoever gets in their way.

Collectivism is not a fucking cure for collectivism.


Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.

Well that IS the only way I've known non-violence to work.  Is there another non-violent way?

Yes. First of all, the system is going to collapse all on its own, because it is evil and broken. While CD can have some effect, speeding up the natural process of entropy on the sly is a far better method when outnumbered, because you're not losing your people in the process. Bleeding the beast, nonviolent monkeywrenching, nonviolent "sabotage" (Both physical and systemic), participating in the underground marketplace (Of both people and products), etc.

There are many nonviolent things you can do to speed up the collapse of the state that have nothing to do with self sacrifice and direct confrontation, and at the end of the day, ideally, no one is locked up in a cell, so your numbers are far less diminished over time.
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #213 on: April 16, 2009, 12:37:01 PM »

So you're saying that the only type of real standing for your rights activism going on in the entire country is only happening in NH?

As far as I know.  I could be wrong.
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Keels

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #214 on: April 16, 2009, 12:50:06 PM »

So you're saying that the only type of real standing for your rights activism going on in the entire country is only happening in NH?

As far as I know.  I could be wrong.

I guess it would depend on ones view of what "activism" is. I know that my friends and I here in AZ are doing things when we can to promote liberty with CD and activism. No one has been arrested (yet)...maybe that's the key to getting it in the papers.  :)

I think of things like not paying speeding camera tickets as CD...but you also won't see us going 100mph down the freeway. We aren't necessarily trying to break a laws to get out points acrossed, but when we have the chance we will.

and we also are all a part of copwatch... I consider that activism.

And no, none of us are joining the FSP. I feel we need to get people everywhere involved to actually see anything change.
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #215 on: April 16, 2009, 12:55:28 PM »

I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.  

Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.

Can this claim be substantiated?

Quote
CD will not become very productive at changing the state until there are enough activists.  

I have determined that this is exactly why the FSP isn't going to effect change. "Enough activists" means "Our gang". You can't fight collectivism with collectivism, and that's exactly what it seems like the early movers are trying to do: Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.

Unsubstantiated claim.

Quote
And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed.  

Not through CD.

I think so.  I could be wrong.  I will happily rephrase to "And I think 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed."

Quote
The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.

Study up on the 1960's. There were riots on college campuses that had crowds that big. A couple hundred cops, some tear gas and some fire hoses sorted them right the fuck out.

You have a small crowd, and the thugs will round a few people up until everyone disperses, which is exactly what happened the other day.

You have a giant crowd, and they get the riot gear out and start shooting people with bean bags and rubber bullets, and they will stomp the shit out of whoever gets in their way.

Collectivism is not a fucking cure for collectivism.

And then there were Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr...
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #216 on: April 16, 2009, 01:09:08 PM »

Quote
Can this claim be substantiated?

Yes.

Quote
Unsubstantiated claim.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Quote
I think so.  I could be wrong.  I will happily rephrase to "And I think 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed."

You're wrong.

Quote
And then there were Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr...

Who were both shot dead, like dogs.

Fuck that.
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rookie

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #217 on: April 16, 2009, 01:10:01 PM »

Monkeywrenching often requires creativity, and not repetition, for it to be successful.

I dunno about effectiveness, but at least I have fun with it.




and, so on...


* kunst approves this post!! 
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #218 on: April 16, 2009, 01:13:26 PM »


Yes. First of all, the system is going to collapse all on its own,

We can hope.
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #219 on: April 16, 2009, 01:32:01 PM »

Quote
Can this claim be substantiated?

Yes.

Proof?

Quote
Quote
Unsubstantiated claim.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Until you provide proof, it does.

Quote
Quote
I think so.  I could be wrong.  I will happily rephrase to "And I think 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed."

You're wrong.

We will not know until 20,000 activists move to NH.  So your claim that I am wrong is unsubstantiated.

Quote
Quote
And then there were Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr...

Who were both shot dead, like dogs.

Fuck that.

But change did occur...I know you contend it would have anyways, but we cannot know that.
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anarchir

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #220 on: April 16, 2009, 01:37:34 PM »

Monkeywrenching often requires creativity, and not repetition, for it to be successful.

I dunno about effectiveness, but at least I have fun with it.


Haha nice work.

Quote
Bleeding the beast, nonviolent monkeywrenching, nonviolent "sabotage" (Both physical and systemic), participating in the underground marketplace (Of both people and products), etc.

There are many nonviolent things you can do to speed up the collapse of the state that have nothing to do with self sacrifice and direct confrontation, and at the end of the day, ideally, no one is locked up in a cell, so your numbers are far less diminished over time.

Yes. There are lots of valuable alternatives to getting arrested over and over.  Be free to fight another day (or more that same day).

Quote
"Enough activists" means "Our gang". You can't fight collectivism with collectivism,

Very true. The FSP must merge itself with the population whenever and wherever possible. They are merely citizens the same as everyone else. Everyone has the potential to be an "activist", and in fact everyone is promoting their own lifestyle by living that lifestyle: thus personal activism of a sort.

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slayerboy

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #221 on: April 16, 2009, 02:20:02 PM »

Getting arrested for the sake of getting arrested is a publicity stunt, plain and simple.  I liken this type of CD that's going on in Keene right now to be similar to all the teabagging parties that went on yesterday.  1000's of fucktards standing with a sign saying "Fuck taxes", when they file their taxes every year early.  If all the 1000's of those people didn't file their taxes this year instead of throwing a party it would have made a much bigger statement.

The biggest problem with the CD that's going on is they are breaking the law for the sake of breaking laws.  Why?  What good is this going to do?  This is my biggest problem with activists.. 
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #222 on: April 16, 2009, 02:22:38 PM »

So you're saying that the only type of real standing for your rights activism going on in the entire country is only happening in NH?

As far as I know.  I could be wrong.

I guess it would depend on ones view of what "activism" is. I know that my friends and I here in AZ are doing things when we can to promote liberty with CD and activism. No one has been arrested (yet)...maybe that's the key to getting it in the papers.  :)

I think of things like not paying speeding camera tickets as CD...but you also won't see us going 100mph down the freeway. We aren't necessarily trying to break a laws to get out points acrossed, but when we have the chance we will.

and we also are all a part of copwatch... I consider that activism.

And no, none of us are joining the FSP. I feel we need to get people everywhere involved to actually see anything change.


Sounds like pretty cool stuff going on there.  Maybe we should move to AZ, not far from UT.  I would say you proved me wrong...
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sillyperson

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #223 on: April 16, 2009, 02:28:36 PM »

I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH. 
Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.

Some people act like you shit in their milk if you point out that being hauled off to jail actually hurts the FSP in any way: "If they don't like it, then we didn't need those people!"

So, I just shrug and enjoy the entertainment, M$-style.

My issue is and has been not the tactic of CD as such, but rather the specific ways it's been used. Aside from 1-2 extremely good examples (eg., Outlaw Manicure), most of the CD has been counterproductive, because it has alienated the populace. Case in point: the fact that the soup kitchen would prefer less volunteers, than to deal with the FreeKeene crowd.

NHArticleTen

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #224 on: April 16, 2009, 02:41:07 PM »

I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH. 
Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.

Some people act like you shit in their milk if you point out that being hauled off to jail actually hurts the FSP in any way: "If they don't like it, then we didn't need those people!"

So, I just shrug and enjoy the entertainment, M$-style.

My issue is and has been not the tactic of CD as such, but rather the specific ways it's been used. Aside from 1-2 extremely good examples (eg., Outlaw Manicure), most of the CD has been counterproductive, because it has alienated the populace. Case in point: the fact that the soup kitchen would prefer less volunteers, than to deal with the FreeKeene crowd.


Actually, both the current volunteers and the current recipients of said soup WOULD enjoy MORE help and MORE soup...

Those against the volunteering and donations of the Keeniacs are the behind-the-scenes-bureaucrats who attempt to thwart the Keeniacs at every possible opportunity...

To wit, the Keeniacs should find appropriate T-shirts w/slogans to outfit those who go to the kitchen for soup...and then video the thugs that might have the balls to turn hungry, needy people away because of their clothing...

Always it's about showing the thugs and their continual gunpoint jackbooted-enforcement of arbitrary and capricious sentiments foisted under color of law...

fucking mobocracy anyways...

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