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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #150 on: April 15, 2009, 12:12:16 AM »

Was Ghandi making progress as he was beaten into the ground.

A. Ghandi was a racist.

B. Look how he ended up.



B.  Dead, but don't we all end up dead?

Gandhi won freedom for his people.
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #151 on: April 15, 2009, 12:13:11 AM »

B.  Dead, but don't we all end up dead?

You first.

Gandhi won freedom for his people.

Sorta.
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JWI

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #152 on: April 15, 2009, 12:16:52 AM »

I was asking.  Notice that no one mentions whether or not a fine was paid in a the vast majority of cases?

The fund may be to "pay rent" but just wait until the local government figures out when it's grown large enough and starts slapping fines on everyone hoping something sticks.

I'm still looking for the increased freedom as a result of CD, so far it only seems to have gone the way.  Evidence: the whole cameras in court thing.

Well I can admit that we often suffer from poor reporting and lacking in followup updates at FreeKeene. This is an organization issue I think ("oh, someone else will post that update."), and I'm often posting updates to court stories I wasn't even attending, just because I think they should be followed up on.

As for CD reducing freedom and encouraging crackdown, I was recently asked "So, have you guys made any progress in your activism?" and my answer was "Depends what you call progress. Was Ghandi making progress as he was beaten into the ground. It was a step along the way, but it probably didn't feel like progress at the time."

Ghandi was a racist, so I'm glad there isn't any Ghandi type progress.  And that answer avoids the question.  There has been no progress, it's been a regression.  A temporary regression?  Possibly.  Still, I remember hearing that camera's were OK, then they weren't, then they were but you couldn't pan them, then they weren't again.  The CD started to "bring down the man" and so far, it hasn't done anything.  Rather it went from camera's in court are OK to getting arrested for being in a lobby.

Meanwhile, while people get bent out of shape over the actions of the police in the courthouse lobby, someone's house is being wrongfully raided and they're being terrorized for no good reason.  The CD activists have obviously chosen to fight Camera-gate but won't do a damn thing about unlawful raids because, well, that's politics and politics is a waste of time.
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Spideynw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #153 on: April 15, 2009, 12:17:48 AM »

B.  Dead, but don't we all end up dead?

You first.

Who is to say if activism will result in death first.  People die from a lot of things.  And not all activists die because they are being activists.
Gandhi won freedom for his people.

Sorta.

I should say he helped win independence from England.
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #154 on: April 15, 2009, 12:18:48 AM »

The CD activists have obviously chosen to fight Camera-gate but won't do a damn thing about unlawful raids because, well, that's politics and politics is a waste of time.

Well, show up to a raid get get shot in the face.

That's a factor, too.
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JWI

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #155 on: April 15, 2009, 12:21:28 AM »

The CD activists have obviously chosen to fight Camera-gate but won't do a damn thing about unlawful raids because, well, that's politics and politics is a waste of time.

Well, show up to a raid get get shot in the face.

That's a factor, too.

Yeah but that would require different tactics.  Mainly the tactics of doing the politics stuff to abolish the stupid laws that result in the raids.  But no true CDer would be caught dead wasting their time doing politics.
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #156 on: April 15, 2009, 12:21:33 AM »

Who is to say if activism will result in death first.  People die from a lot of things.  And not all activists die because they are being activists.

No, they die because of who they are protesting.

I should say he helped win independence from England.

Again, sorta. Had a lot more to do with the UK being unable to sustain an empire, financially. The fruit rotted and fell. And then everything went to shit all over again, just in a different way.
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #157 on: April 15, 2009, 12:25:28 AM »

But no true CDer would be caught dead wasting their time doing politics.

Naw, they just waste their time getting carried around the courthouse in chains and screaming that it hurts.

Interfering with a raid has a much higher risk factor.

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JWI

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #158 on: April 15, 2009, 12:29:01 AM »

But no true CDer would be caught dead wasting their time doing politics.

Naw, they just waste their time getting carried around the courthouse in chains and screaming that it hurts.

Interfering with a raid has a much higher risk factor.



I'm not saying physically interfere with a raid.  In order to end the raids it might require doing some of the icky politics stuff and communicating your point effectively.  I know it requires public speaking and it's not as easy as laying on the floor, but personally I'd rather see a large group of people working towards ending as much government violence as possible than fighting for my right to have a camera in court.
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John Shaw

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #159 on: April 15, 2009, 12:32:49 AM »

I'm not saying physically interfere with a raid.  In order to end the raids it might require doing some of the icky politics stuff and communicating your point effectively.  I know it requires public speaking and it's not as easy as laying on the floor, but personally I'd rather see a large group of people working towards ending as much government violence as possible than fighting for my right to have a camera in court.

Call me cynical, but I think it's way to late for all of that stuff.

Cause trouble and keep your mouth shut, is my philosophy.

But hey, people need to do what they think is best, I suppose.
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JWI

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #160 on: April 15, 2009, 12:36:43 AM »

Call me cynical, but I think it's way to late for all of that stuff.

Cause trouble and keep your mouth shut, is my philosophy.

But hey, people need to do what they think is best, I suppose.

You may be right.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #161 on: April 15, 2009, 12:44:01 AM »

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JWI

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #162 on: April 15, 2009, 12:45:50 AM »

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mikehz

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #163 on: April 15, 2009, 10:21:32 AM »

The other day, some crazy woman climbed into a polar bear enclosure at a zoo. As might be expected, she was badly bitten before being pulled to safety. Her entering the cage made as much sense as civil disobedience by a small number of activists.

Yeah, that Rosa Parks really was a dumb shit, wasn't she?

She would have been, had she not had a large group backing her up. Rosa's act was not a spontaneous one, but was carefully planned. In fact, she was recruited for it.
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Rillion

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #164 on: April 15, 2009, 11:18:44 AM »

The other day, some crazy woman climbed into a polar bear enclosure at a zoo. As might be expected, she was badly bitten before being pulled to safety. Her entering the cage made as much sense as civil disobedience by a small number of activists.

Yeah, that Rosa Parks really was a dumb shit, wasn't she?

She would have been, had she not had a large group backing her up. Rosa's act was not a spontaneous one, but was carefully planned. In fact, she was recruited for it.

The FSP is a pretty large group, is it not?   One which also carefully plans its protests and supports practitioners of civil disobedience?

The only real difference is that Rosa Park's cause was more popular at the time among the wider  population.  But at one point it wasn't.  Had she tried the same thing five or ten years earlier, she probably would've been evicted from the bus and possibly arrested and nobody would've cared....those who heard about it would just say the exact same things people in this thread are saying. 
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