He was then dragged off and beaten by court officers.
If this is true: oh shit.
http://qik.com/video/1451066
"Yep, we're gonna annoy the shit out of these guys until we get them to bully us for little stuff so we can show people how bad things are."
The whole "Aw gee, we were just standing there and they went all apeshit!!! It was crazy!" stuff is pretty transparent.
I just don't understand why everyone is acting all surprised. Seems manipulative.
You poke the bear, you get mauled.
The whole "Aw gee, we were just standing there and they went all apeshit!!! It was crazy!" stuff is pretty transparent.
Sorry to be a dick and rain on the "Victory", but using semi-honest to dishonest representations of an event is bad news, if you're the good guys.
QuoteI just don't understand why everyone is acting all surprised. Seems manipulative.
You poke the bear, you get mauled.
I'm by no means surprised. They are thugs with a willingness and track record indicative of the willingness to be violent. It's no surprise.
It's also something that most people don't see on a daily basis, and for those who want to help spread that concept, this is useful.QuoteThe whole "Aw gee, we were just standing there and they went all apeshit!!! It was crazy!" stuff is pretty transparent.
No, the "Aw gee... they put you in a rape cage for recording people who call themselves 'government'' is a pretty strong message on it's own. Nobody's claiming "This was unexpected." Just the contrary, actually.
This stuff happens SO often that one can expect it. This stuff happens SO often that they've got the fortitude to do it while being recorded, in a room full of people. The very fact that it's a common place occurance makes it all the more vital to do and spread.QuoteSorry to be a dick and rain on the "Victory", but using semi-honest to dishonest representations of an event is bad news, if you're the good guys.
People I like got hurt. It's not a victory. Any dishonesty was done on part of lack of information and attempting to be quick. Luckily, there were some members of the press around for this incident, and it will get exposure. More so, there are people on the scene casting out information that corrects the assumptions and inaccuracies.
I feel bad for his hand, but I'm not gonna act all surprised
QuoteI feel bad for his hand, but I'm not gonna act all surprised
I'm struggling to understand why you think anybody expects "surprise"? You seem caught up in that notion and I fail to understand.
I'll be trying to relocate to NH this summer
when you shine sunlight on the vampires they do tend to get disturbed...
not that the vampires shouldn't be destroyed...
for the peace and prosperity of all...
jackbooted-thuggery...
go figure...
enjoy!
^ Classic NHA10 post.QuoteI'll be trying to relocate to NH this summer
Good luck!
when you shine sunlight on the vampires they do tend to get disturbed...
not that the vampires shouldn't be destroyed...
for the peace and prosperity of all...
jackbooted-thuggery...
go figure...
enjoy!
Triangles and Ellipses and Jackboots... OH MY!
Triangles and Ellipses and Jackboots... OH MY!
Triangles and Ellipses and Jackboots... OH MY!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EocnQnbBM1I/R7z-mlq-WDI/AAAAAAAAAhs/bfpM6AKngwA/s400/WizardOfOz.jpg)
Triangles and Ellipses and Jackboots... OH MY!
Triangles and Ellipses and Jackboots... OH MY!
Triangles and Ellipses and Jackboots... OH MY!
enjoy!
go figure...
jackbooted-thuggery...
for the peace and prosperity of all...
not that the vampires shouldn't be destroyed...
when you shine sunlight on the vampires they do tend to get disturbed...
What's a NHA10 Post?
And my relocating all depends on the LME. Namely the Aluminum
Triangles and Ellipses and Jackboots... OH MY!
He posts weird posts that look like crazy people posts, because he may or may not be crazy, but certainly gives the impression.
He likes posts that are fairly triangular shaped for some reason that is unknown to the rest of us.
Awesome.
Wonder what the deal is with courts and video cameras? I have never heard a convincing argument for a general prohibition of video cameras in courtrooms.
Awesome.
Wonder what the deal is with courts and video cameras? I have never heard a convincing argument for a general prohibition of video cameras in courtrooms.
How about, "because we say so and will assault you"?
Yep, that one is particularly unconvincing. Not ineffective, just wrong.
I'm disgusted with the general "he had it coming" attitude I'm seeing on this thread!
I'm disgusted with the general "he had it coming" attitude I'm seeing on this thread!
I don't think it's so much a case of "He had it coming" as "He knew exactly what he was getting into and acting surprised about it is disingenuous."
I'm disgusted with the general "he had it coming" attitude I'm seeing on this thread!
I don't think it's so much a case of "He had it coming" as "He knew exactly what he was getting into and acting surprised about it is disingenuous."
Same thing different tone.
The word "tactics" implies some sort of centralizationNo it doesn't. Every person has both short-term and long-term goals.
The word "tactics" implies some sort of centralization, which isn't very compatible with a movement like the FSP. Different people have different abilities, predispositions, and levels of commitment - and all those can change with time and circumstance. It's hard to put a value on how willing someone is to be dragged away to jail, or how difficult it may be for someone to back down and kiss some pig ass in a given circumstance. As much as we may try to control ourselves, emotions do play a role.
No it doesn't. Every person has both short-term and long-term goals.
It's reasonable to assume that the long-term goal of everyone involved, is a dramatic reduction in the size and scope of government. My personal strategy (which is shared by most FSPers) involves legislative change, primarily by having libertarians take significant numbers of offices in local and state government, and also by supporting and opposing specific pieces of legislation.
My personal tactics include flyering against the proposed seat-belt law, public testimony in support of the medical marijuana law, contributions of time and money to particular liberty-oriented candidates, and so forth. Many people who share my goal and strategy also participate in the same very same tactical efforts.
Now, I again ask the question, mostly of anyone involved with today's events in Keene:
What is the tactical goal, and how effective are these tactics at attaining that goal?
You know, what matters is that so many great people are moving there, how free it was beforehand is a relative question. It's certainly far freer than where I am now!
But you live at Seastead Alpha Prime! |
So to sum up....
People get arrested and freak out over....not being able to have a camera in court?
If that's a freedom that people are fighting and getting arrested for, then perhaps NH isn't as free as advertised.
when you shine sunlight on the vampires they do tend to get disturbed...
And he was probably just screaming like a banshee to make a scene.
QuoteAnd he was probably just screaming like a banshee to make a scene.
Oh, I thought that was a given.
So to sum up....
People get arrested and freak out over....not being able to have a camera in court?
If that's a freedom that people are fighting and getting arrested for, then perhaps NH isn't as free as advertised.
I would imagine the same thing or worse would happen in any other state.
The audio of the actual incident is extremely clear. I guess Sam doesn't like living in your "because I say so" world and demands, you know, reasons for things and rule enforcers to follow, you know, rules.Where is the audio?
The audio of the actual incident is extremely clear. I guess Sam doesn't like living in your "because I say so" world and demands, you know, reasons for things and rule enforcers to follow, you know, rules.Where is the audio?
Wait, isnt "Free State" supposed to be an oxymoron anyway? |
[...] I guess Sam doesn't like living in your "because I say so" world and demands, you know, reasons for things and rule enforcers to follow, you know, rules. |
Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.
Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.
I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience.
Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.
I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience.
Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.
I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience.
Incorrect. I see the point. I also think civil disobedience is counter-productive.
Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.
I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience.
Incorrect. I see the point. I also think civil disobedience is counter-productive.
Why do you believe CD to be counter-productive? What method(s) would you use instead to get the point across to a broader audience?
follow every dictate and you won't get arrested.
how foolish and cowardly.
NHAT - New Hampshire Article Ten...The whole enchalada...The alpha and omega...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_ConstitutionQuote
Article 10. Right of Revolution
New Hampshire is the only state besides Kentucky which provides for a "Right of Revolution" in its state constitution. The Right of Revolution is a right dating back to the Revolutionary War, and is held in high regard in New Hampshire by members of the libertarian Free State Project. Part I., Article 10 reads:
“ Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
where's the interwebs nazis when you need them...lol...
Here's what I remember. Sam came into the courthouse ready to videotape. A group of us went upstairs. Sam began taping. Court officers told him to stop and showed him the note stuck on the wall saying not to tape. Sam said the note on the wall didn't appear to be an order signed by anyone, so he was under no obligation to follow notes stuck to the wall. The two police prosecutors come out and start to arrest Sam. Rivera grabbed the camera from Sam. BTW, they didn't appear ready for a riot, like they did the day Ridley planned his camera civ. disobedience - there were just the normal amount of cops there...there were tons the day Ridley planned his event. When they started to arrest Sam, he fell to the ground. They dragged him into the next room. We could hear him screaming in pain, "Ow that hurts!" At one point the door was opened and I saw the thugs lifting Sam, who was on his stomach on the floor with handcuffs behind his back. Kurt called them thugs and the older court security officer went off on him, saying 'who you calling a thug' and acting like he was about to knock Kurt on his butt and generally behaving very thuglike. Kurt argued with him a little. More screaming from the backroom and then Kurt's demanding to see what they're doing to his friend. Lance the court security guy lets Kurt into the back hallway and Kurt sees Sam back there, but Rivera slams the door shut so that Kurt can't see anymore. They start herding people into the courtroom for Ridley's arraignment. Some of us headed outside to be there when they took Sam out. Lauren and Jim and I stood at the back door where they usually haul people out of the building. Maybe this made them decide to take everyone (except Tim) out the front door? We heard that they were bringing Sam out the front so went out there. They were still dragging him with his hands cuffed behind the back, with him screaming in pain. People on the street were asking what was going on, so told them Sam had been videotaping. People on the street expressed disapproval with people being hurt for videotaping. Sam's dragged into the police car with much difficulty and pain and put face down on the floor, but later hauled into a sitting position. Sam finally told me he was OK when I was asking. Lauren tells cops repeatedly that they should be ashamed of themselves. Other police cars start arriving like mad. There were all the Keene police, some county and state police. Sam is driven away. In a few minutes, Kurt is brought out in handcuffs, walking. Cops are again told by Lauren they should be ashamed. People on the street are really concerned about what's going on. David's brought out, walking. Then they dragged Patrick. I have to say it was really heartwrenching the way they were manhandling the always-smiling Patrick. He was also crammed into the back seat of the cop car with much difficulty and pain. TomSawyer was admonishing them for using an unneccessarily painful way to handle these guys - amounting to torture. I don't think anyone saw Tim being brought out the back. I'm guessing he was walking. SamARobrin and Coconut told us what had happened upstairs - all the freestaters were told to leave. Those who didn't would be arrested when backup arrived. Backup arrived and blocked off the room, so no one could leave. SamARobrin and Coconut gave their info and were released with summonses. 4 guys didn't give their info and were arrested, as we saw below. The Keene Sentinel reporter and others there were not given summonses. Back outside people talked to the Sentinel reporter for a while. I went upstairs with Lauren and Jim to see if the courtroom lobby was still blocked off. They let us come in but wanted to make sure we had business there. I overheard one of the ladies who works in the court talking to the police prosecuter (not Rivera): she said he'd have to take the Keene Sentinel reporter out to dinner that night because she was doing a story on him and he was a hero now. Back outside, Jim asked the Keene Sentinel reporter if she was going out with the Keene police since she was going a story on them, but she said no. We all headed to the police station. David and Patrick were coming out the back when Ian, Dale and I arrived. Both David and Patrick expressed how what was going on in that courtroom lobby was just so absurd that they felt they couldn't comply with what was going on - but they had not gone there with the intention of being arrested. I'm sure that was true of all 4 who were arrested after Sam. Sam had apparently been planning to push the recording issue. Patrick told how he'd overheard cops complaining about the police prosecutor going too far - that they'd been called and told a violent riot was going on, but in reality it was a couple of guys standing around. Kurt and Tim were also released. We waited around to hear what had happened to Sam and were eventually told he was taken to the jail. We stopped to eat some lunch then headed out to the jail. Dale and I met up with Jeremy, Rich and Jennifer who had driven out from Manchester. A couple of us went to the door and asked about Sam, but were told that no one by that name was in the jail. Sam isn't giving his name, which is why he was held, so it'll be hard to ask about him and get any info, or send him letters. One guard who was outside having a smoke said there was a guy brought in who woudn't give his name. We hung out in the demonstration garden for a while and then back outside the jail. Two state police and one county guy showed up. They were called apparently because of Rich open carrying. The first one who showed up and did most of the questioning had been at the courthouse arrests earlier. It was all pretty laid back though. He asked if anyone else was carrying and Jeremy said yes, but refused to show ID or his concealed carry license. The guys explained they weren't required by law to do anything but tell them name and city where they live and the guy seemed to accept this info. He went inside to talk to the jail guards. The other statie just stood outside chatting with us. The county guy never said a word. First guy came back out and said Sam was in there and would probably have video arraignment in the morning. I'm guessing the court would like to be spared another freestater visit. Cops all left. Rest of the freestater crowd arrived with signs, so we protested outside the jail for a while, with prisoners banging on windows and waving from inside. We were unmolested while protesting, unlike the first time we tried it there. Then everyone left for the Keene City Hall meeting, but I went home.
What is retarded is SCREAMING like a baby. This shows you are an attention whore (like everyone else) that isn't clever enough to get attention in a positive way. That does more harm than good, all that hollerin'Sam was being tortured, so I hear.
Why do you believe CD to be counter-productive? What method(s) would you use instead to get the point across to a broader audience?
This has been discussed multiple times here and on a lot of other message boards. I don't believe that someone garnering negative attention by being thrown into county lockup, and then using up local taxpayer dollars to rot in county lockup for x amount of days is productive. Yeah, it gets attention - but the majority of people see it as stupid. Especially though who don't have "libertarian" ideals to begin with. There are a lot of reasons, but most importantly - instead of rotting in jail today, I'm going to work. So I don't want to have an argument, debate, discussion, or clusterfuck about this subject AGAIN.
The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?
The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?
Well, the people in NH that know about the FSP and are not a part of it. It is entertainment for them. But most people in NH don't know what the FSP is.The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?
Is that really true, or is it just the laughing stock of . .um. . you?
Per Ian @ P411, Sam is not cooperating with the video arraignment, and is being held until he chooses to cooperate. Let the waiting game begin
Well, the people in NH that know about the FSP and are not a part of it. It is entertainment for them. But most people in NH don't know what the FSP is.The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?
Is that really true, or is it just the laughing stock of . .um. . you?
People in NH love the cops.
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=17822.msg294278#msg294278QuotePer Ian @ P411, Sam is not cooperating with the video arraignment, and is being held until he chooses to cooperate. Let the waiting game begin
The other day, some crazy woman climbed into a polar bear enclosure at a zoo. As might be expected, she was badly bitten before being pulled to safety. Her entering the cage made as much sense as civil disobedience by a small number of activists.
Such actions do nothing to further liberty. Those outside the movement-l-the vast majority of people--just watch the news. "Just look at those idiots! Thank God the police are around to deal with 'em."
One person disobeying a bad law, or even a handful, do nothing. Large numbers ignoring bad laws get things changed!
One person disobeying a bad law, or even a handful, do nothing. Large numbers ignoring bad laws get things changed!
The other day, some crazy woman climbed into a polar bear enclosure at a zoo. As might be expected, she was badly bitten before being pulled to safety. Her entering the cage made as much sense as civil disobedience by a small number of activists.
Such actions do nothing to further liberty. Those outside the movement-l-the vast majority of people--just watch the news. "Just look at those idiots! Thank God the police are around to deal with 'em."
One person disobeying a bad law, or even a handful, do nothing. Large numbers ignoring bad laws get things changed!
The other day, some crazy woman climbed into a polar bear enclosure at a zoo. As might be expected, she was badly bitten before being pulled to safety. Her entering the cage made as much sense as civil disobedience by a small number of activists.
The other day, some crazy woman climbed into a polar bear enclosure at a zoo. As might be expected, she was badly bitten before being pulled to safety. Her entering the cage made as much sense as civil disobedience by a small number of activists.
Yeah, that Rosa Parks really was a dumb shit, wasn't she?
http://www.keenesentinel.com/articles/2009/04/14/news/local/free/id_351706.txt
And as for filming in the lobby, he said that this space is an extension of the courtroom — and is filled, at times, by people attending to other business in city hall or by children and victims of rape or domestic violence.
“The last thing a ... victim of domestic violence wants is someone with a camera recording them,” Rivera said.
While not specifically outlined in N.H. district court rules — which allow media, in most cases, to videotape or record public court proceedings — state judicial branch spokeswoman Laura A. Kiernan said it’s general practice not to allow videotaping in court hallways.
“We’ve talked about this at length and the Free Staters know that,” she said. “We’re doing the best we can to maintain civility, security and orderly behavior in our courthouses.”
But, according to Rivera, the commotion on Monday was anything but.
“Basically, it brought the court process to a halt,” he said.
Still, Krouse pointed his finger back at law enforcement.
“We did not represent a threat,” he said. “The waste of police resources was entirely the fault of the police.”
Dodson was scheduled to be arraigned this morning in Keene District Court.
From what I gather, Ridley was the only arraignment slated for the time slot--and Rivera should know that since he probably had a hand in scheduling it. The man is a weasel and is trying to play the Keene public just like he played the activists. He calls in his tough-guys when his anxiety level shoots through the roof. I used to just embrace the political activism but now I'm opening up to the idea of CD--though I probably shouldn't since I may lose my cool in a situation like that. When I see bullies picking on people, I have a natural reaction to level the playing field. It just infuriates me to see those officers pushing people around via their catch-all: disorderly conduct.http://www.keenesentinel.com/articles/2009/04/14/news/local/free/id_351706.txt
And as for filming in the lobby, he said that this space is an extension of the courtroom — and is filled, at times, by people attending to other business in city hall or by children and victims of rape or domestic violence.
“The last thing a ... victim of domestic violence wants is someone with a camera recording them,” Rivera said.
While not specifically outlined in N.H. district court rules — which allow media, in most cases, to videotape or record public court proceedings — state judicial branch spokeswoman Laura A. Kiernan said it’s general practice not to allow videotaping in court hallways.
“We’ve talked about this at length and the Free Staters know that,” she said. “We’re doing the best we can to maintain civility, security and orderly behavior in our courthouses.”
But, according to Rivera, the commotion on Monday was anything but.
“Basically, it brought the court process to a halt,” he said.
Still, Krouse pointed his finger back at law enforcement.
“We did not represent a threat,” he said. “The waste of police resources was entirely the fault of the police.”
Dodson was scheduled to be arraigned this morning in Keene District Court.
As if anyone would know who was a domestic abuse victim in the lobby. That is such a garbage excuse for not allowing video cameras to be on in the lobby.
“The last thing a ... victim of domestic violence wants is someone with a camera recording them,” Rivera said.
Having a protest inside the courthouse is abadgreat idea. Of course they are going to crack down on a courthouse protest.
GLWTHaving a protest inside the courthouse is abadgreat idea. Of course they are going to crack down on a courthouse protest.
Fixed.
It's not that weird to ban video cameras in a courtroom. In those cases, Dale should serve as the courtroom artist.How can everything be legit if there are no cameras allowed? If they can manipulate the process to their benefit, justice can't be rightfully served without full disclosure. The only thing weird is that they used to allow cameras, then they changed their minds, arbitrarily--using the cover story of caring for the privacy of DV victims.
Sam has been charged with "Disorderly Conduct", "Resisting Arrest", and "Refusal to Process". He is being held until he requests an arraignment.
I have kept Sam's dad informed. Aida is taking care of his cat. I have a call in to someone who I believe to be his landlord to check his rent status.
Phone numbers for the jail, court, and KPD have been posted at http://sam.jailedactivist.info
Audio of his arrest and torture is now at http://freekeene.com/2009/04/14/audio-of-the-arrest-and-torture-of-peaceful-activist-sam/
GLWTHaving a protest inside the courthouse is abadgreat idea. Of course they are going to crack down on a courthouse protest.
Fixed.
To each his own, I guess. Me, I would like to avoid jail.GLWTHaving a protest inside the courthouse is abadgreat idea. Of course they are going to crack down on a courthouse protest.
Fixed.
What better place to highlight the evil of mala prohibita than the place where the prohibita occurs?
To each his own, I guess. Me, I would like to avoid jail.GLWTHaving a protest inside the courthouse is abadgreat idea. Of course they are going to crack down on a courthouse protest.
Fixed.
What better place to highlight the evil of mala prohibita than the place where the prohibita occurs?
And as for filming in the lobby, he said that this space is an extension of the courtroom - and is filled, at times, by people attending to other business in city hall or by children and victims of rape or domestic violence. "The last thing a ... victim of domestic violence wants is someone with a camera recording them," Rivera said.
"We don't want them on top of us." |
It's not that weird to ban video cameras in a courtroom...
It's not that weird to ban video cameras in a courtroom...
Maybe not in your state. In NH, it's against the District Court Rules.
Rule 1.4. Regulation of conduct in the courtroom.
(a) The presiding judge should permit the media to photograph, record and broadcast all courtroom proceedings that are open to the public. The presiding judge may limit electronic media coverage if there is a substantial likelihood of harm to any person or other harmful consequence. Except as specifically provided in this rule, or by order of the presiding justice, no person shall within the courtroom take any photograph, make any recording, or make any broadcast by radio, television or other means in the course of any proceeding.
(b) Official court reporters and authorized recorders, are not prohibited by section (a) of this rule from making voice recordings for the sole purpose of discharging their official duties.
(c) Proposed Limitations on Coverage by the Electronic Media. Any party to a court proceeding – or any other interested person – shall notify the court at the inception of a matter, or as soon as practicable, if that person intends to ask the court to limit electronic media coverage of any proceeding that is open to the public. Failure to notify the court in a timely fashion may be sufficient grounds for the denial of such a request. In the event of such a request, the presiding judge shall either deny the request or issue an order notifying the parties to the proceeding and all other interested persons that such a limitation has been requested, establish deadlines for the filing of written objections by parties and interested persons, and order an evidentiary hearing during which all interested persons will be heard. The same procedure for notice and hearing shall be utilized in the event that the presiding judge sua sponte proposes a limitation on coverage by the electronic media. A copy of the court's order shall, in addition to being incorporated in the case docket, be sent to the Associated Press, which will disseminate the court's order to its members and inform them of upcoming deadlines/hearing.
(d) Advance Notice of Requests for Coverage. Any requests to bring cameras, broadcasting equipment and recording devices into a New Hampshire courtroom for coverage of any court proceedings shall be made as far in advance as practicable. If no objection to the requested electronic coverage is received by the court, coverage shall be permitted in compliance with this rule. If an objection is made, the media will be so advised and the court will conduct an evidentiary hearing during which all interested parties will be heard to determine whether, and to what extent, coverage by the electronic media or still photography will be limited. This rule and procedures also apply to all court procedures conducted outside the courtroom or the court facility.
(e) Pool Coverage . The presiding judge retains discretion to limit the number of still cameras and the amount of video equipment in the courtroom at one time and may require the media to arrange for pool coverage. The court will allow reasonable time prior to a proceeding for the media to set up pool coverage for television, radio and still photographers providing broadcast quality sound and video.
(1) It is the responsibility of the news media to contact the clerk of court in advance of a proceeding to determine if pool coverage will be required. If the presiding judge has determined that pool coverage will be required, it is the sole responsibility of the media, with assistance as needed from the court clerk, to determine which news outlet will serve as the “pool.” Disputes about pool coverage will not be resolved by the court. Access may be curtailed if pool agreements cannot be reached.
(2) In the event of multiple requests for media coverage, because scheduling renders a pool agreement impractical, the court clerk retains the discretion to rotate media representatives into and out of the courtroom.
(f) Live Feed. Except for good cause shown, requests for live coverage should be made at least five (5) days in advance of a proceeding.
(g) Exhibits . For purposes of this rule, access to exhibits will be at the discretion of the presiding judge. The court retains the discretion to make one “media” copy of each exhibit available in the court clerk’s office.
(h) Equipment . Exact locations for all video and still cameras, and audio equipment within the courtroom will be determined by the presiding judge. Movement in the courtroom is prohibited, unless specifically approved by the presiding judge.
(1) Placement of microphones in the courtroom will be determined by the presiding judge. An effort should be made to facilitate broadcast quality sound. All microphones placed in the courtroom will be wireless.
(2) Video and photographic equipment must be of professional quality with minimal noise so as not to disrupt the proceedings; flash equipment and other supplemental lighting or sound equipment is prohibited unless otherwise approved by the presiding judge.
(i) Restrictions . Unless otherwise ordered by the presiding judge, the following standing orders shall govern.
(1) No flash or other lighting devices will be used.
(2) Set up and dismantling of equipment is prohibited when court is in session.
(3) No camera movement during court session.
(4) No cameras permitted behind the defense table.
(5) Broadcast equipment will be positioned so that there will be no audio recording of conferences between attorney and client or among counsel and the presiding judge at the bench. Any such recording is prohibited.
(6) Photographers and videographers must remain a reasonable distance from parties, counsel tables, alleged victims, witnesses and families unless the trial participant voluntarily approaches the camera position.
(7) All reporters and photographers will abide by the directions of the court officers at all times.
(8) Broadcast or print interviews will not be permitted inside the courtroom before or after a proceeding.
(9) Photographers, videographers and technical support staff covering a proceeding shall avoid activity that might distract participants or impair the dignity of the proceedings.
(10) Appropriate dress is required.
As is Sam correct in the fact that the lobby IS NOT part of the courtroom, and not subject to "judge's orders." Whatever they might be.Are you sure? In the Franklin District courthouse I couldn't even bring my laptop into the lobby. They have their security set up before you get into the lobby.
If no objection to the requested electronic coverage is received by the court, coverage shall be permitted in compliance with this rule. If an objection is made, the media will be so advised and the court will conduct an evidentiary hearing during which all interested parties will be heard to determine whether, and to what extent, coverage by the electronic media or still photography will be limited. This rule and procedures also apply to all court procedures conducted outside the courtroom or the court facility.
Did anyone file a request for electronic coverage with the court?QuoteIf no objection to the requested electronic coverage is received by the court, coverage shall be permitted in compliance with this rule. If an objection is made, the media will be so advised and the court will conduct an evidentiary hearing during which all interested parties will be heard to determine whether, and to what extent, coverage by the electronic media or still photography will be limited. This rule and procedures also apply to all court procedures conducted outside the courtroom or the court facility.
That pretty cut and dried. If the man says the lobby's off limits, it is. If the man doesn't say, coverage shall be permitted.
If the man gave an order, it would be easy to produce as proof. No proof, no order.
Did anyone file a request for electronic coverage with the court?QuoteIf no objection to the requested electronic coverage is received by the court, coverage shall be permitted in compliance with this rule. If an objection is made, the media will be so advised and the court will conduct an evidentiary hearing during which all interested parties will be heard to determine whether, and to what extent, coverage by the electronic media or still photography will be limited. This rule and procedures also apply to all court procedures conducted outside the courtroom or the court facility.
That pretty cut and dried. If the man says the lobby's off limits, it is. If the man doesn't say, coverage shall be permitted.
If the man gave an order, it would be easy to produce as proof. No proof, no order.
Did anyone file a request for electronic coverage with the court?
IIRC, those windows in the lobby are where that is done.
I'm pretty sure you just file a motion.Did anyone file a request for electronic coverage with the court?
IIRC, those windows in the lobby are where that is done.
They would have not known what to do with it, since there's no form for these things, passed it on to the judge. The judge would have said that blogs are not "credentialed media."
I don't think you know who you're talking to, Coconut ;)It's not that weird to ban video cameras in a courtroom...Maybe not in your state. In NH, it's against the District Court Rules.
Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?Ayup
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1134/fapu.jpg)Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?Ayup
Why do you believe CD to be counter-productive? What method(s) would you use instead to get the point across to a broader audience?
This has been discussed multiple times here and on a lot of other message boards. I don't believe that someone garnering negative attention by being thrown into county lockup, and then using up local taxpayer dollars to rot in county lockup for x amount of days is productive. Yeah, it gets attention - but the majority of people see it as stupid. Especially though who don't have "libertarian" ideals to begin with. There are a lot of reasons, but most importantly - instead of rotting in jail today, I'm going to work. So I don't want to have an argument, debate, discussion, or clusterfuck about this subject AGAIN.
You are wrong. CD garners sympathy from the population. It forces officials to examine their laws. As Ian said, imagine if even 1% of Keene were activists? Instead of only 5 people being arrested, what if it were 100? All for filming? The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.
The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?
The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?
Serious question: why do you frequent these forums and follow the movement so closely if you believe it to be worthy of being a laughing stock?
Do you have the one that same artist did after Mike Fisher's "outlaw manicure"?I don't think so. I may have it on a backup somewhere. But I'm not going to look for it.
I was referring to that one
The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?
Serious question: why do you frequent these forums and follow the movement so closely if you believe it to be worthy of being a laughing stock?
If they invaded your state, wouldn't you?
his attention to it only gives it more legitimacy.Y'know, John, I am really starting to appreciate just how MUCH entertainment there is to be had here!!!
his attention to it only gives it more legitimacy.
If I act like a dickhead and run around pissing on people's food, and throwing turds around, and people pay attention to that fact, then they are giving my food pissing, shit throwing methods legitimacy?
Sympathy from the population? Are you high or something? People laugh at this shit. I think it would be effective with a larger group of people, but right now it isn't. Which begs the question of how we get it popular amongst more people. Well, it's sort of a cycle, and we'll see where it goes. I fully believe it attracts more negative attention than positive.
They'd call you a threat.
a threat to the status quo.I don't think they think that.
It not a matter of what I think, it's about public opinion. People in NH only hear about the "crazy freestaters". But like I said, most people in NH don't know anything about the FSP. But Keene is a "small town", and I'm sure "the powers that be" are having a good laugh over the antics.The Keene PD would become the laughing stock of the country. Public opinion is very powerful, and this will garner positive attention, not negative attention.Do you realize that the FSP is the laughing stock of NH?
Serious question: why do you frequent these forums and follow the movement so closely if you believe it to be worthy of being a laughing stock?
They'd call you a threat.
And what does a powerful state who vastly outnumbers and outguns said threat do to it?
Yeah.
...I'm sure "the powers that be" are having a good laugh over the antics.
So it's pointless? I should stop? I should live the rest of my life as comfortable as possible trying to stay away from the guns?
You can be very active and be completely unnoticed.Or... very active and viewed in a positive light by just about everyone in the community.
You can be very active and be completely unnoticed.Or... very active and viewed in a positive light by just about everyone in the community.
once caller commented and mentioned Sam "being beaten back there" and not letting people watch.They didn't let anyone watch? Man that is fucked up.
...I'm sure "the powers that be" are having a good laugh over the antics.
What would you have to see to change your mind from "they're laughing" to "they're annoyed" to "they're worried"?
And if you think the project will be ineffectual, how do you predict it will end? Fizzle out as activists lose interest and "grow up"?I think at some point the people in the FSP will realize the only chance they have is the FTP in Grafton. But many won't want to move to Grafton, so it won't work out.
...I'm sure "the powers that be" are having a good laugh over the antics.
What would you have to see to change your mind from "they're laughing" to "they're annoyed" to "they're worried"?
I think some people are probably annoyed, and maybe a few are worried.
Worried? Bah, the CD people are a blessing for local government. Easy money.
Some of them read the FSP website and think 20,000 people are about to move. I'm just sayin'...I'm sure "the powers that be" are having a good laugh over the antics.
What would you have to see to change your mind from "they're laughing" to "they're annoyed" to "they're worried"?
I think some people are probably annoyed, and maybe a few are worried.
Worried? Bah, the CD people are a blessing for local government. Easy money.
I think some people are probably annoyed, and maybe a few are worried.
Worried? Bah, the CD people are a blessing for local government. Easy money.
Worried? Bah, the CD people are a blessing for local government. Easy money.
I've kinda wondered about that myself.
Worried? Bah, the CD people are a blessing for local government. Easy money.
I've kinda wondered about that myself.
Hell you got dozens of people just begging to be ticketed and most will end up paying some sort of fine. Notice when someone refuses to pay a fine the other CD people bark at the moon about it, but for some odd reason no mention is made in the vast majority of cases?
And now someone wants us to donate to some CD fund so they can use the donated money to pay the fines rather than their own funds?
Easy money. I'll bet Keene will be getting a whole bunch of new stuff this year.
Worried? Bah, the CD people are a blessing for local government. Easy money.
I've kinda wondered about that myself.
Hell you got dozens of people just begging to be ticketed and most will end up paying some sort of fine. Notice when someone refuses to pay a fine the other CD people bark at the moon about it, but for some odd reason no mention is made in the vast majority of cases?
And now someone wants us to donate to some CD fund so they can use the donated money to pay the fines rather than their own funds?
Easy money. I'll bet Keene will be getting a whole bunch of new stuff this year.
Hmm. I believe you are misinformed.
I know of one fine that was paid to the courts for a "Civil Disobedience" violation. That was Menno for not having a car registered. Ian was going to pay a fine, but instead was allowed to donate his money to charity. Who and what are these "vast majority of cases" involving CD activists paying fines?
The CD Evolution Fund is to help jailed activists pay rent, not pay bail/fines.
I was asking. Notice that no one mentions whether or not a fine was paid in a the vast majority of cases?
The fund may be to "pay rent" but just wait until the local government figures out when it's grown large enough and starts slapping fines on everyone hoping something sticks.
I'm still looking for the increased freedom as a result of CD, so far it only seems to have gone the way. Evidence: the whole cameras in court thing.
Was Ghandi making progress as he was beaten into the ground.
Was Ghandi making progress as he was beaten into the ground.
A. Ghandi was a racist.
B. Look how he ended up.
B. Dead, but don't we all end up dead?
Gandhi won freedom for his people.
I was asking. Notice that no one mentions whether or not a fine was paid in a the vast majority of cases?
The fund may be to "pay rent" but just wait until the local government figures out when it's grown large enough and starts slapping fines on everyone hoping something sticks.
I'm still looking for the increased freedom as a result of CD, so far it only seems to have gone the way. Evidence: the whole cameras in court thing.
Well I can admit that we often suffer from poor reporting and lacking in followup updates at FreeKeene. This is an organization issue I think ("oh, someone else will post that update."), and I'm often posting updates to court stories I wasn't even attending, just because I think they should be followed up on.
As for CD reducing freedom and encouraging crackdown, I was recently asked "So, have you guys made any progress in your activism?" and my answer was "Depends what you call progress. Was Ghandi making progress as he was beaten into the ground. It was a step along the way, but it probably didn't feel like progress at the time."
B. Dead, but don't we all end up dead?
You first.
Gandhi won freedom for his people.
Sorta.
The CD activists have obviously chosen to fight Camera-gate but won't do a damn thing about unlawful raids because, well, that's politics and politics is a waste of time.
The CD activists have obviously chosen to fight Camera-gate but won't do a damn thing about unlawful raids because, well, that's politics and politics is a waste of time.
Well, show up to a raid get get shot in the face.
That's a factor, too.
Who is to say if activism will result in death first. People die from a lot of things. And not all activists die because they are being activists.
I should say he helped win independence from England.
But no true CDer would be caught dead wasting their time doing politics.
But no true CDer would be caught dead wasting their time doing politics.
Naw, they just waste their time getting carried around the courthouse in chains and screaming that it hurts.
Interfering with a raid has a much higher risk factor.
I'm not saying physically interfere with a raid. In order to end the raids it might require doing some of the icky politics stuff and communicating your point effectively. I know it requires public speaking and it's not as easy as laying on the floor, but personally I'd rather see a large group of people working towards ending as much government violence as possible than fighting for my right to have a camera in court.
Call me cynical, but I think it's way to late for all of that stuff.
Cause trouble and keep your mouth shut, is my philosophy.
But hey, people need to do what they think is best, I suppose.
You may be right.
You may be right.
May? GTFO.
The other day, some crazy woman climbed into a polar bear enclosure at a zoo. As might be expected, she was badly bitten before being pulled to safety. Her entering the cage made as much sense as civil disobedience by a small number of activists.
Yeah, that Rosa Parks really was a dumb shit, wasn't she?
The other day, some crazy woman climbed into a polar bear enclosure at a zoo. As might be expected, she was badly bitten before being pulled to safety. Her entering the cage made as much sense as civil disobedience by a small number of activists.
Yeah, that Rosa Parks really was a dumb shit, wasn't she?
She would have been, had she not had a large group backing her up. Rosa's act was not a spontaneous one, but was carefully planned. In fact, she was recruited for it.
The FSP is a pretty large group, is it not? One which also carefully plans its protests and supports practitioners of civil disobedience?
The only real difference is that Rosa Park's cause was more popular at the time among the wider population. But at one point it wasn't. Had she tried the same thing five or ten years earlier, she probably would've been evicted from the bus and possibly arrested and nobody would've cared....those who heard about it would just say the exact same things people in this thread are saying.
The FSP is a pretty large group, is it not?No, the FSP is a pretty small group.
One which also carefully plans its protests and supports practitioners of civil disobedience?The FSP does not plan any protests, or support practitioners of civil disobedience.
Claudette Colvin did it nine months before Rosa parks:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/187325
No, the FSP is a pretty small group.
The FSP does not plan any protests, or support practitioners of civil disobedience.
No, the FSP is a pretty small group."small" is a subjective term
There are not 9,000 free staters.No, the FSP is a pretty small group.
I'd say over 9,000 is pretty big.
FSP members != FSPQuoteThe FSP does not plan any protests, or support practitioners of civil disobedience.
Funny, I've been seeing FSP members planning and supporting protests all over the place. Where've you been?
The Free State Project is NOT a political action organization. It is not tied to any political party. It does not run candidates for election, and it does not financially support or endorse candidates. It neither opposes nor endorses legislation.
How many of the 9200 still want to be FSP members?No, the FSP is a pretty small group."small" is a subjective term
9200 members, 700 in-state. That's pretty big for a libertarian group, esp. in a state with 1.3 million people
How many of the 9200 still want to be FSP members?I have no clue. I'd realistically guess a little over half, just because the other ~60% signed up long enough ago they would need to see something big to get re-energized
How many FSP members are active in NH?Depends on what you mean by active.
And what does the FSP do in NH besides the Liberty Forum and Porcfest?nothing
Ivy reports that Sam is in on a $10,000 cash-only bail.
Also, they were planning on assigning him a court-appointed attorney who can act on his behalf without his permission, so Ivy will step forward as his representation to prevent them from taking that step. Sam is in no way required to accept this, but we figure it is better than the state attorney doing things in Sam's case without his consent.
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=799.msg6601#msg6601QuoteIvy reports that Sam is in on a $10,000 cash-only bail.
Also, they were planning on assigning him a court-appointed attorney who can act on his behalf without his permission, so Ivy will step forward as his representation to prevent them from taking that step. Sam is in no way required to accept this, but we figure it is better than the state attorney doing things in Sam's case without his consent.
Section 644:2
644:2 Disorderly Conduct. – A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:
I. He knowingly or purposely creates a condition which is hazardous to himself or another in a public place by any action which serves no legitimate purpose; or
II. He or she:
(a) Engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior in a public place; or
(b) Directs at another person in a public place obscene, derisive, or offensive words which are likely to provoke a violent reaction on the part of an ordinary person; or
(c) Obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic on any public street or sidewalk or the entrance to any public building; or
(d) Engages in conduct in a public place which substantially interferes with a criminal investigation, a firefighting operation to which RSA 154:17 is applicable, the provision of emergency medical treatment, or the provision of other emergency services when traffic or pedestrian management is required; or
(e) Knowingly refuses to comply with a lawful order of a peace officer to move from or remain away from any public place; or
III. He purposely causes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creates a risk thereof, by:
(a) Making loud or unreasonable noises in a public place, or making loud or unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place or other private places, which noises would disturb a person of average sensibilities; or
(b) Disrupting the orderly conduct of business in any public or governmental facility; or
(c) Disrupting any lawful assembly or meeting of persons without lawful authority.
III-a. When noise under subparagraph III(a) is emanating from a vehicle's sound system or any portable sound system located within a vehicle, a law enforcement officer shall be considered a person of average sensibilities for purposes of determining whether the volume of such noise constitutes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, and the officer may take enforcement action to abate such noise upon detecting the noise, or upon receiving a complaint from another person.
IV. (a) Whenever a peace officer has probable cause to believe that a serious threat to the public health or safety is created by a flood, storm, fire, earthquake, explosion, riot, ongoing criminal activity that poses a risk of bodily injury, or other disaster, the officer may close the area where the threat exists and the adjacent area necessary to control the threat or to prevent its spread, for the duration of the threat, until related law enforcement, fire, and emergency medical service operations are complete, by means of ropes, markers, uniformed emergency service personnel, or any other reasonable means, to any persons not authorized by a peace officer or emergency services personnel to enter or remain within the closed area.
(b) Peace officers may close the immediate area surrounding any emergency field command post activated for the purpose of abating any threat enumerated in this paragraph to any unauthorized persons, whether or not the field command post is located near the source of the threat.
(c) Any unauthorized person who knowingly enters an area closed pursuant to this paragraph or who knowingly remains within the area after receiving a lawful order from a peace officer to leave shall be guilty of disorderly conduct.
V. In this section:
(a) ""Lawful order'' means:
(1) A command issued to any person for the purpose of preventing said person from committing any offense set forth in this section, or in any section of Title LXII or Title XXI, when the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that said person is about to commit any such offense, or when said person is engaged in a course of conduct which makes his commission of such an offense imminent;
(2) A command issued to any person to stop him from continuing to commit any offense set forth in this section, or in any section of Title LXII or Title XXI, when the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that said person is presently engaged in conduct which constitutes any such offense; or
(3) A command not to enter or a command to leave an area closed pursuant to paragraph IV, provided that a person may not lawfully be ordered to leave his or her own home or business.
(b) ""Public place'' means any place to which the public or a substantial group has access. The term includes, but is not limited to, public ways, sidewalks, schools, hospitals, government offices or facilities, and the lobbies or hallways of apartment buildings, dormitories, hotels or motels.
VI. Disorderly conduct is a misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by any person to desist; otherwise, it is a violation.
Source. 1971, 518:1. 1983, 200:1. 1985, 309:1. 2005, 192:1, 2, eff. June 30, 2005; 260:2, 3, eff. July 22, 2005.
642:2 Resisting Arrest or Detention. – A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when the person knowingly or purposely physically interferes with a person recognized to be a law enforcement official, including a probation or parole officer, seeking to effect an arrest or detention of the person or another regardless of whether there is a legal basis for the arrest. A person is guilty of a class B felony if the act of resisting arrest or detention causes serious bodily injury, as defined in RSA 625:11, VI, to another person. Verbal protestations alone shall not constitute resisting arrest or detention.
637:7-a Possession of Property Without Serial Number. –
I. No person shall knowingly remove, deface, alter, change, destroy, obliterate or mutilate, or cause to be removed, defaced, altered, changed, destroyed, obliterated or mutilated the identifying number or numbers or any other identifying mark on any machine, mechanical or electrical device or any other property. Anyone doing so with the intent thereby to conceal the identity of the item or to defraud a manufacturer, seller or purchaser, or to hinder competition in the areas of sales and servicing, or to prevent the detection of a crime shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
II. Any person who buys, receives, possesses, sells or disposes of any machine, mechanical or electrical device or any other property knowing that the identification number or numbers or any other identifying mark on the item have been removed, defaced, altered, changed, destroyed, obliterated or mutilated shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. However, if a person discovering that the identification number or numbers or any other identifying mark have been removed, defaced, altered, changed, destroyed, obliterated or mutilated shall report the same to the nearest police station, he shall not be charged with violating this section. Further, said provisions do not apply to those persons who, on August 13, 1977, are lawfully in possession of that type of property described in paragraph I which does not have identifying numbers or marks or from which the identifying marks or numbers have been lost inadvertently.
III. The provisions of this section do not apply to those cases or instances where any of the changes or alterations enumerated in paragraph I have been customarily made or done in an established practice in the ordinary and regular conduct of business by the original manufacturer, or by his duly appointed direct representative, or under specific authorization from the original manufacturer.
IV. When property described in paragraph I comes into the custody of a law enforcement officer, it shall be considered stolen or embezzled property, and prior to being disposed of, shall have an identifying number engraved on it or embedded in it.
Source. 1977, 187:1, eff. Aug. 13, 1977.
So what's everyone think?
Worth it?
I suppose the end result of it all would determine whether or not the CD was appropriate.
Ok, I havent read the past 2 pages of this thread, but perhaps the CD people need to step up their disobedience a bit?
Actually go around and break vastly worse rules? Storm a building and hold it under siege? I still like my idea of going after a government building and taking all their paper.
While all the cops were distracted with these CD people, other activists coulda been going apes hit elsewhere. Anyone else think that AnarchoJesse's garden woulda been better had he gotten huge groups of people to quickly dig it in the dead of night (but still properly done) or any other time right under the cops noses but without them getting caught?
CD seems to have the most public relations value when the prohibited conduct is of a kind that most people feel shouldn't be unlawful.
Andrew Carroll's case (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=16319.0) is a good example although AFAIK "most" people only agree that people are justified in breaking the prohibition against marijuana possession if they have a need, like a medical issue. So his case would be better if it included those kind of facts as well. Just a thought for future work. I haven't seen/heard any of the recordings of Sam screaming but I don't think it is a big deal even if he was acting. Sure, it would be best if his screams were a reasonable response to some horrific torture, but without video evidence or (big) broken bones something like that is pretty hard to prove.
Regardless of the effect of any CD on the status of the FSP and the "message of liberty" in the eyes of the public, those who think that the Keene activists' efforts are worthless or worse, represent some kind of windfall for the state, are mistaken. The state's resources are not infinite and it is much more profitable to prosecute those who quickly plead guilty and agree to pay fines and court costs. Anyone who lives or works in Keene should be thanking these people for diverting the attention of the machine away from their own allegedly unlawful activites. Yes I wrote "allegedly" because innocent people get charged all the time. Prosecutors do what they do and won't continue to collect their checks if they simply sit around the office and do nothing all day. The more time they spend on cases like Sam's, the less time they have to prosecute other victimless crimes.
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.I'm not really sure how that works. "I heard this guy tried to get arrested, and did, so I am moving to NH!"
And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed. The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.At this point, 20,000 activists is a pipe dream. And even if there were 20,000 activists, do you think the state would just give up?
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.
CD will not become very productive at changing the state until there are enough activists.
And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed.
The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.
Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.
Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.
Well that IS the only way I've known non-violence to work. Is there another non-violent way?
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.I'm not really sure how that works. "I heard this guy tried to get arrested, and did, so I am moving to NH!"
And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed. The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.At this point, 20,000 activists is a pipe dream. And even if there were 20,000 activists, do you think the state would just give up?
Would the state just go away? No. Would the state have to change their laws to not punishing victimless crimes? I would think so.
Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.
Well that IS the only way I've known non-violence to work. Is there another non-violent way?
Yes. First of all, the system is going to collapse all on its own, because it is evil and broken. While CD can have some effect, speeding up the natural process of entropy on the sly is a far better method when outnumbered, because you're not losing your people in the process. Bleeding the beast, nonviolent monkeywrenching, nonviolent "sabotage" (Both physical and systemic), participating in the underground marketplace (Of both people and products), etc.
There are many nonviolent things you can do to speed up the collapse of the state that have nothing to do with self sacrifice and direct confrontation, and at the end of the day, ideally, no one is locked up in a cell, so your numbers are far less diminished over time.
Define Monkeywrenching. . .
Would the state just go away? No. Would the state have to change their laws to not punishing victimless crimes? I would think so.
Couple million people protested the 1994 assault weapons ban, in state state capitols and in D.C. in 1994. Didn't do a fucking thing. As a matter of fact all it did was kill Bush One's chances of getting reelected, which meant absolutely nothing in the long term.
More people per capita show up for anti abortion protests every day, all across the nation. Doesn't do a damned thing.
That is not civil disobedience. That is protesting. Big difference.
That is not civil disobedience. That is protesting. Big difference.
Fine. Nevertheless I've made a half dozen other points that you've conveniently ignored.
That is not civil disobedience. That is protesting. Big difference.
Fine. Nevertheless I've made a half dozen other points that you've conveniently ignored.
Like what?
That is not civil disobedience. That is protesting. Big difference.
Fine. Nevertheless I've made a half dozen other points that you've conveniently ignored.
Like what?
No. You go back and read my posts. I don't do your work for you. PROTIP: It was only one page ago.
Well, if you can't back up your accusations, then that is your problem. As it sits, I have addressed everything.
Monkeywrenching often requires creativity, and not repetition, for it to be successful.
I think Shaw is making some really valid points that I actually never even considered, makes it seem more “real life” I guess.
I still think it's cool what they are doing and makes me excited when I see that people are standing up for themselves and their rights. It is terrible what they are doing to people ALL over the country; I don’t see what moving to NH has to do with anything.
Well, if you can't back up your accusations, then that is your problem. As it sits, I have addressed everything.
Bullshit. Read my post at the bottom of the last fucking page, you lazy tit. Jesus fucking Christ.
"I win because he won't go back and quote himself from ONE PAGE EARLIER! LOLOL"
PROTIP 2: Davann quoted the post in its entirety ON THIS PAGE.
I think Shaw is making some really valid points that I actually never even considered, makes it seem more “real life” I guess.
I still think it's cool what they are doing and makes me excited when I see that people are standing up for themselves and their rights. It is terrible what they are doing to people ALL over the country; I don’t see what moving to NH has to do with anything.
People outside of NH are "standing up for their rights"?
I think Shaw is making some really valid points that I actually never even considered, makes it seem more “real life” I guess.
I still think it's cool what they are doing and makes me excited when I see that people are standing up for themselves and their rights. It is terrible what they are doing to people ALL over the country; I don’t see what moving to NH has to do with anything.
People outside of NH are "standing up for their rights"?
Please tell me you are being facetious. :shock:
I think Shaw is making some really valid points that I actually never even considered, makes it seem more “real life” I guess.
I still think it's cool what they are doing and makes me excited when I see that people are standing up for themselves and their rights. It is terrible what they are doing to people ALL over the country; I don’t see what moving to NH has to do with anything.
People outside of NH are "standing up for their rights"?
Please tell me you are being facetious. :shock:
I don't think protesting or getting elected is "standing for your rights".
Let me know when you grow up and are willing to have an honest discussion.
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.
Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.CD will not become very productive at changing the state until there are enough activists.
I have determined that this is exactly why the FSP isn't going to effect change. "Enough activists" means "Our gang". You can't fight collectivism with collectivism, and that's exactly what it seems like the early movers are trying to do: Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed.
Not through CD.The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.
Study up on the 1960's. There were riots on college campuses that had crowds that big. A couple hundred cops, some tear gas and some fire hoses sorted them right the fuck out.
You have a small crowd, and the thugs will round a few people up until everyone disperses, which is exactly what happened the other day.
You have a giant crowd, and they get the riot gear out and start shooting people with bean bags and rubber bullets, and they will stomp the shit out of whoever gets in their way.
Collectivism is not a fucking cure for collectivism.
Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.
Well that IS the only way I've known non-violence to work. Is there another non-violent way?
Yes. First of all, the system is going to collapse all on its own, because it is evil and broken. While CD can have some effect, speeding up the natural process of entropy on the sly is a far better method when outnumbered, because you're not losing your people in the process. Bleeding the beast, nonviolent monkeywrenching, nonviolent "sabotage" (Both physical and systemic), participating in the underground marketplace (Of both people and products), etc.
There are many nonviolent things you can do to speed up the collapse of the state that have nothing to do with self sacrifice and direct confrontation, and at the end of the day, ideally, no one is locked up in a cell, so your numbers are far less diminished over time.
So you're saying that the only type of real standing for your rights activism going on in the entire country is only happening in NH?
So you're saying that the only type of real standing for your rights activism going on in the entire country is only happening in NH?
As far as I know. I could be wrong.
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.
Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.
CD will not become very productive at changing the state until there are enough activists.
I have determined that this is exactly why the FSP isn't going to effect change. "Enough activists" means "Our gang". You can't fight collectivism with collectivism, and that's exactly what it seems like the early movers are trying to do: Put together a big enough gang of self sacrificing martyrs to throw themselves at the wall of the state until they are soaked in their own blood.
And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed.
Not through CD.
The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.
Study up on the 1960's. There were riots on college campuses that had crowds that big. A couple hundred cops, some tear gas and some fire hoses sorted them right the fuck out.
You have a small crowd, and the thugs will round a few people up until everyone disperses, which is exactly what happened the other day.
You have a giant crowd, and they get the riot gear out and start shooting people with bean bags and rubber bullets, and they will stomp the shit out of whoever gets in their way.
Collectivism is not a fucking cure for collectivism.
Can this claim be substantiated?
Unsubstantiated claim.
I think so. I could be wrong. I will happily rephrase to "And I think 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed."
And then there were Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr...
Monkeywrenching often requires creativity, and not repetition, for it to be successful.
I dunno about effectiveness, but at least I have fun with it.
(http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/107-1103183956-john.jpg)
and, so on...
Yes. First of all, the system is going to collapse all on its own,
QuoteCan this claim be substantiated?
Yes.
QuoteUnsubstantiated claim.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
QuoteI think so. I could be wrong. I will happily rephrase to "And I think 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed."
You're wrong.
QuoteAnd then there were Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr...
Who were both shot dead, like dogs.
Fuck that.
Monkeywrenching often requires creativity, and not repetition, for it to be successful.
I dunno about effectiveness, but at least I have fun with it.
Bleeding the beast, nonviolent monkeywrenching, nonviolent "sabotage" (Both physical and systemic), participating in the underground marketplace (Of both people and products), etc.
There are many nonviolent things you can do to speed up the collapse of the state that have nothing to do with self sacrifice and direct confrontation, and at the end of the day, ideally, no one is locked up in a cell, so your numbers are far less diminished over time.
"Enough activists" means "Our gang". You can't fight collectivism with collectivism,
So you're saying that the only type of real standing for your rights activism going on in the entire country is only happening in NH?
As far as I know. I could be wrong.
I guess it would depend on ones view of what "activism" is. I know that my friends and I here in AZ are doing things when we can to promote liberty with CD and activism. No one has been arrested (yet)...maybe that's the key to getting it in the papers. :)
I think of things like not paying speeding camera tickets as CD...but you also won't see us going 100mph down the freeway. We aren't necessarily trying to break a laws to get out points acrossed, but when we have the chance we will.
and we also are all a part of copwatch... I consider that activism.
And no, none of us are joining the FSP. I feel we need to get people everywhere involved to actually see anything change.
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.
Some people act like you shit in their milk if you point out that being hauled off to jail actually hurts the FSP in any way: "If they don't like it, then we didn't need those people!"
So, I just shrug and enjoy the entertainment, M$-style.
My issue is and has been not the tactic of CD as such, but rather the specific ways it's been used. Aside from 1-2 extremely good examples (eg., Outlaw Manicure), most of the CD has been counterproductive, because it has alienated the populace. Case in point: the fact that the soup kitchen would prefer less volunteers, than to deal with the FreeKeene crowd.
I will be happy to donate to the "hoodies for the homeless" program to donate hooded sweatshirts with anti-statist slogans or graphics.
To wit, the Keeniacs should find appropriate T-shirts w/slogans to outfit those who go to the kitchen for soup...and then video the thugs that might have the balls to turn hungry, needy people away because of their clothing...
I will be happy to donate to the "hoodies for the homeless" program to donate hooded sweatshirts with anti-statist slogans or graphics.
To wit, the Keeniacs should find appropriate T-shirts w/slogans to outfit those who go to the kitchen for soup...and then video the thugs that might have the balls to turn hungry, needy people away because of their clothing...
Shall the CD people round up the homeless before each event, feed them, then involve them in the activism?
Superintendent Van Wickler on Sam and Releasing Prisoners
Ian at 12:46 pm on Thursday, April 16, 2009
This morning I had a nice conversation with Superintendent (and Law Enforcement Against Prohibition speaker) Rick Van Wickler of the Cheshire County Jail. According to him, Sam is eating but apparently wasn’t until just recently, and that he is still not cooperating so therefore has not been classified. That means he can’t be in population, therefore he is likely in solitary confinement until he decides to submit to some of their questions and a TB test.
I asked Rick what level of control he has over releasing inmates and he explained that he answers to the judges with one exception. If an inmate has been sentenced and has served 2/3 of the sentence, the superintendent has the ability to release them anytime after that point. For those with political inclinations, this is a state statute apparently so it could be changed to allow superintendents to release any prisoner as early as they deem appropriate. As long as this inhumane system exists, that change would allow for more compassion and give the jail superintendents a nice check against bad judges. Imagine someone like Van Wickler just cutting loose all peaceful inmates in on drug charges, or other peaceful inmates like Sam. Of course, at this stage Sam hasn’t been sentenced or arraigned, so Van Wickler has no control over Sam’s release at all. If he were to release Sam anyway, he’d be charged with contempt of court and likely imprisoned in his own facility. As nice as it would be to see more bureaucrats buck the system that provides them with a paycheck, it’s not too probable that will occur. Mr. Van Wickler, like many government bureaucrats, is a man who has chosen allegiance with a system that he doesn’t fully agree with. It’s a system that is so dangerous and intimidating that he dares not risk defying it beyond speaking out against it. For his courage to speak out against its depredations and his dedication to running his inherently inhumane facility in the most compassionate way possible within the confines of that system, he should be appreciated. For his fear of retribution for doing the right thing, he should be forgiven. We have all been afraid.
This knowledge about prisoner release leaves us with a few options:
Persuade judge Burke to do the right thing and stop hearing cases with no victim and allow cameras in his court. I have a call in to the court in an attempt to get a lunch date with him to discuss such matters. Perhaps your phone calls to the court can help in this.
Encourage the NHLA to work in the system on giving jail superintendents more ability to release inmates. I find working in the system repulsive, but this would be a very positive change and one I’d be willing to contribute financially toward.
More disobedience and noncooperation. This one is inevitable as more people get fed up with this oppression, move to Keene, and join the peaceful evolution.
What am I missing? Please post your comments.
SAM UPDATE: Ivy is attempting to meet with Sam and get a signature from him so she can represent him at Keene District Court. It’s my understanding she is also working to file a writ of habeas corpus for Sam. Get the latest on Sam on this Free Keene forum thread.
This one is inevitable as more people get fed up with this oppression, move to Keene, and join the peaceful evolution.
This one is inevitable as more people get fed up with this oppression, move to Keene, and join the peaceful evolution.
LOL self contradictory statements.
If you get fed up with oppression, you don't move toward it.
This one is inevitable as more people get fed up with this oppression, move to Keene, and join the peaceful evolution.
LOL self contradictory statements.
If you get fed up with oppression, you don't move toward it.
burned
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH. CD will not become very productive at changing the state until there are enough activists. And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed. The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH. CD will not become very productive at changing the state until there are enough activists. And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed. The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.
You assume all 20,000 would be involved in CD. What if they aren't? What if only 1000 are involved with CD and the other 19000 are doing something else?
The CD people in NH have turned many people off from moving to NH. That is a fact. Some of us don't want to already have a negative label because we're also part of the FSP. Unfortunately the CD people will bring the shit down on everyone else who has even a dim link to the FSP.
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH. CD will not become very productive at changing the state until there are enough activists. And 20,000 activists in NH would definitely be enough to get things changed. The state would not have enough resources to take on 20,000 people.
You assume all 20,000 would be involved in CD. What if they aren't? What if only 1000 are involved with CD and the other 19000 are doing something else?
The CD people in NH have turned many people off from moving to NH. That is a fact. Some of us don't want to already have a negative label because we're also part of the FSP. Unfortunately the CD people will bring the shit down on everyone else who has even a dim link to the FSP.
You're so very right. I wouldn't dare make master angry. Master might make things worse for everyone if I did. And then all my fellow slaves would be mad at me because master would be taking it's anger out on everyone. We must obey master and try to change master's rules by following master's rules, of course!
Has there been media coverage on this besides FTL and the Keene Sentinel?Another of my critiques of the tactics of the CD folks is that one significant measure of CD is how much media it gets. It's great that "we" produce a lot of media in NH, but none of us own a mainstream, high-visibility news source.
Unfortunately the CD people will bring the shit down on everyone else who has even a dim link to the FSP.Yes and no. Those of us that are views as respectable folks -- people who are volunteering in the community, getting elected as Selectmen, and generally not involved in constant in-your-face attention-getting activism -- are well respected, and it' sgenerally known we're FSPers. In fact, Joel Winters (the 1st early-moving FSPer elected to the State House) is generally considered to be the most respected person in the entire 400-person body, in either party. It's worth noting that he was a sponsor of the bill that opted NH out of Real-ID.
But of course, "politics won't do anything for freedom" :roll:
Candlelight Vigil for Sam Dodson at Central Square in Keene
As you all must know by now the perils of Sam Dodson.
This date will mark One Week since Sam's abusive kidnappers stole his freedom and hurt him.
There will be a candlelight vigil for Sam on the grass and gazebo at Central Square in Keene.
We request 10 minutes of silence, meditation, prayer, reflection, or whatever you feel necessary.
Monday April 20th at 9:00 PM
Please, take candles with you and some to share.
Some copies of Richard's (aka Sam A. Robrin) song "I Will Record", sung to the tune "I Will Survive", will be passed around as well. I'll post the song here shortly for any and all interested.
Other suggestions:
Car Pool.
Family members are welcome to support.
Overhead projectors (I think BaldEagle has that covered).
Red laser lights, if anyone has them, to illuminate a nearby wall with "Free Sam" or what have you.
Everyone wear a blindfold (preferably black) because you are not allowed to see what is going on in Keene.
Sign making on Saturday 9AM to 12noon (During Talkback) at the Ministry of Propaganda in Keene.
This thread http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=17872.msg294819#msg294819 is intended to be used for planning as well so let's do what we can. If anyone will do a press release that will be helpful as well.
Will link to calendar and on other busy forums.
If someone wants to arrange on Facebook, that will be helpful as well.
Please spread this by any means you feel necessary.
Freedom of speech, Freedom to Record, and any other freedoms of expression are all more than welcome.
Sam will not starve to death and he is not crazy. He is extremely intelligent. His intellectual is in the top 1% of the country.
Ivy was with him for an hour or so today. He is drinking a glass of milk. Ivy was going to ask the jail to send him a vitamin each day and Sam told her he would take it. She plans to see him tomorrow, and I told her to tell him "your Dad said to eat at least one meal per day".
Does anyone know if the jail checks your ID before you visit someone they have caged?
VanWickler called me this morning and we spoke for about a half hour, and he also came down to the jail to meet me and asked my permission to come in with me and speak with Sam. I agreed, and he spoke to Sam for about 15 minutes in my presence, mostly pursuading him to eat. Sam's response was heart-wrenching. He said "You have taken away all of my freedoms and liberties. This is the one freedom I have left; the one thing I still have control over. I am sure at some point you will take that from me as well and medically force nutrition in me, but you will have to do so with force."
Sam's Dad; yes they ask for your ID. They take it from you for the entire time you are inside and return it to you when you leave. Sam is not allowed visitors except for his legal counsel unless he processes, and as of the moment he still has not processed and may still not.
The biggest problem with the CD that's going on is they are breaking the law for the sake of breaking laws. Why? What good is this going to do? This is my biggest problem with activists..
Now, I again ask the question, mostly of anyone involved with today's events in Keene:
What is the tactical goal, and how effective are these tactics at attaining that goal?
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.I'm not really sure how that works. "I heard this guy tried to get arrested, and did, so I am moving to NH!"
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.
Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.
Yes. First of all, the system is going to collapse all on its own, because it is evil and broken. While CD can have some effect, speeding up the natural process of entropy on the sly is a far better method when outnumbered, because you're not losing your people in the process. Bleeding the beast, nonviolent monkeywrenching, nonviolent "sabotage" (Both physical and systemic), participating in the underground marketplace (Of both people and products), etc.
I just think that the main purpose of CD right now is to get more activists to move to NH.Well that's funny, because that very fact is what is holding a lot of people back, from moving to NH.
Some people act like you shit in their milk if you point out that being hauled off to jail actually hurts the FSP in any way: "If they don't like it, then we didn't need those people!"
So, I just shrug and enjoy the entertainment, M$-style.
My issue is and has been not the tactic of CD as such, but rather the specific ways it's been used. Aside from 1-2 extremely good examples (eg., Outlaw Manicure), most of the CD has been counterproductive, because it has alienated the populace. Case in point: the fact that the soup kitchen would prefer less volunteers, than to deal with the FreeKeene crowd.
Have any more theories I can demolish with actual facts?
All of this is going on here, too. Instead of bitching about what you think won’t work, how about you just do something you think will?
A nice demonstration of why people who aren’t even here probably shouldn’t comment on what’s going on.
Have any more theories I can demolish with actual facts?
That is weird, cus I heard Ian say on FTL that Sam knew he was going to get arrested before the event took place.The biggest problem with the CD that's going on is they are breaking the law for the sake of breaking laws. Why? What good is this going to do? This is my biggest problem with activists..
I'm not sure how many times it's been said, or has to be said, Monday was not about "breaking laws for the sake of breaking laws."
But Monday, we were following all the laws, and it still happened.Are you claiming to know all the laws?
Note: Tomorrow morning I will be looking into submitting a motion to record the May 1 trials. I will attempt to follow their rules, and we'll see how that goes.This is the motion form I got from the Franklin District Court a few years ago, but I'm not sure how motions work if you are not a party in the trials.
The long-term strategy of a lot of civil disobedience seems to be get the State to merely leave alone those who are engaging in such civil disobedience.That won't happen.
And no one is “losing” anyone, either. Sam will be out of jail eventually, just like Lauren, Kat, Russell, Dave Ridley, Ian, and all the other people who have done these kinds of things.You are losing time and resources. And the support of the general population of NH. CD make you guys look crazy.
Exactly what I heard.That is weird, cus I heard Ian say on FTL that Sam knew he was going to get arrested before the event took place.The biggest problem with the CD that's going on is they are breaking the law for the sake of breaking laws. Why? What good is this going to do? This is my biggest problem with activists..
I'm not sure how many times it's been said, or has to be said, Monday was not about "breaking laws for the sake of breaking laws."
Goddammit, it seems like every interaction I have with a holier than thou free stater makes me more anti FSP. Used to be that I WAS an FSPer, and then I decided to be a non-FSPer, and you self righteous pricks are turning me into an anti-FSP person with your high horse, arrogant comments.Completely agree, and all the hype about this on FTL is starting to wear thin on me. I signed up a few months ago for the FSP because I liked the idea. But I'm now not sure I want to be associated with this group. I understand not EVERYONE who is in the FSP is practicing CD, but CD is giving the FSP a bad name.
You are not the center of the freedom movement. You are a part of it. You are not in the only place that matters. You will not win other liberty lovers over to your cause by calling them names for not joining your little collective.
Collectivism sucks, and it seems like the most vocal proponents of the FSP are turning into a bunch of collectivists. Good fucking luck.
Completely agree, and all the hype about this on FTL is starting to wear thin on me. I signed up a few months ago for the FSP because I liked the idea. But I'm now not sure I want to be associated with this group. I understand not EVERYONE who is in the FSP is practicing CD, but CD is giving the FSP a bad name.
Here's my idea of what I thought the FSP was:
I save up some money to pay off some debts while looking for a job in NH to replace my current job in NY. Meanwhile also scouting out places to rent or buy. I planned on moving in 2 years or so. My thought was that I was making myself more free by moving to a state that valued personal freedoms. I didn't have any intentions of breaking laws for the purpose of breaking laws. I wanted to go there to be away from the chains of NY state. Find a decent paying job, meet people that have the same ideals as me, and maybe do some activism.
With all these CD'ers running around trying to intentionally rile up the sleeping giant, I'm not so sure I want to be a part of that. If you poke a sleeping bear with a stick one time too many, you will eventually get your ass kicked, miss part of your face, be paralyzed, or maybe killed. I see CD as not providing information that I legally don't have to provide if asked by a cop. I don't see CD as breaking laws hoping that the giant will rethink it's decisions.
It doesn't matter that it's non-violent. It's intentionally pissing people off and interfering in their lives without being provoked.
In all honesty, if this stuff keeps up, I may end up canceling my AMP subscription. I could be completely wrong about all this and maybe what Sam and the other CD'ers are doing might make a difference. I'll hold my decision for a few more weeks. You guys are attracting the wrong group of people who just want to start stuff because they think it's wrong and not realizing that you're probably doing more harm than good, and probably endangering the freedom of those around you more than helping it.
Case in point.
People are being held back from moving by the behavior of the CD crowd.
Shaw's evidence: 1
According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.
FSP: 701 Shaw: 1
In the period 1995–2000, 162,250 people moved into the state and 134,347 moved out, for a net gain of 27,903, of whom came from Massachusetts.
According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.
FSP: 701 Shaw: 1
LOL 700.
Dude, why don't you read up on the history of the FSP and it's claims, number wise, before you start quoting numbers from their site.
Look into "2006 is the end of the project if 20,000 people aren't found."
Please.
Shaw: Many more.
According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.No, that would be 701 "already in NH". 255 of those were in NH before the state vote.
"I will move to New Hampshire by 12/31/2008 where I will work to bring about a society in which government’s maximum role is protecting life, liberty, and property but only if 999 other liberty minded individuals will do the same."
Oh, and just for the record, the FSP is also competing with this:QuoteIn the period 1995–2000, 162,250 people moved into the state and 134,347 moved out, for a net gain of 27,903, of whom came from Massachusetts.
http://www.city-data.com/states/New-Hampshire-Migration.html
Yeah.
According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.
FSP: 701 Shaw: 1
LOL 700.
Dude, why don't you read up on the history of the FSP and it's claims, number wise, before you start quoting numbers from their site.
Look into "2006 is the end of the project if 20,000 people aren't found."
Please.
Shaw: Many more.
What are you talking about? Obviously 2006 was not the end of the project.
According to http://www.freestateproject.org/, 701 have already moved to NH.
FSP: 701 Shaw: 1
LOL 700.
Dude, why don't you read up on the history of the FSP and it's claims, number wise, before you start quoting numbers from their site.
Look into "2006 is the end of the project if 20,000 people aren't found."
Please.
Shaw: Many more.
What are you talking about? Obviously 2006 was not the end of the project.
We have a definite timeline. The plan is to wait until we have 5,000 members before voting on which state; we had to have those 5,000 signatures no later than 3 years from the start of the project. That's September of 2004, and we currently anticipate reach 5,000 by September of 2003. Once the state has been chosen, we will wait until we have 20,000 members before initiating the move; if we don't have 20,000 signatures in 5 years (that's September of 2006), we close up shop. Finally, members have 5 years from the time the 20,000 mark is reached to move. The reason for these deadlines is so this won't turn into an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members.
The membership numbers over the past year indicate that the project will meet its self-imposed deadline of September 2006 for the beginning of the move. The Free State Project has grown on average 25% each month; at this rate, the ultimate goal of 20,000 will be reached by the middle of 2003. As long as the membership continues to grow by at least 10% each month, the Project will reach its goal by early 2005 at the latest.
What are you talking about? Obviously 2006 was not the end of the project.
ROFL. Yeah, yeah it was. It just kept going in contradiction to the original agreement that everyone who signed up before 2006 made. All pre October 2006 FSP numbers are invalid. Please educate yourself before arguing with me about this, because this information is out there and easily verifiable.
We are talking about whether FSP actions are causing people to not move to NH. I do not know what this has to do with the conversation.
QuoteWe have a definite timeline. The plan is to wait until we have 5,000 members before voting on which state; we had to have those 5,000 signatures no later than 3 years from the start of the project. That's September of 2004, and we currently anticipate reach 5,000 by September of 2003. Once the state has been chosen, we will wait until we have 20,000 members before initiating the move; if we don't have 20,000 signatures in 5 years (that's September of 2006), we close up shop. Finally, members have 5 years from the time the 20,000 mark is reached to move. The reason for these deadlines is so this won't turn into an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members.
I guess the FSP decided to become "an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members."
I am just saying that regardless of it saying 2006 is the end of the project, obviously it has not ended.
As to whether or not pre 10/2006 numbers are valid or not is up for debate.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, that is tooooo funny!
QuoteWe have a definite timeline. The plan is to wait until we have 5,000 members before voting on which state; we had to have those 5,000 signatures no later than 3 years from the start of the project. That's September of 2004, and we currently anticipate reach 5,000 by September of 2003. Once the state has been chosen, we will wait until we have 20,000 members before initiating the move; if we don't have 20,000 signatures in 5 years (that's September of 2006), we close up shop. Finally, members have 5 years from the time the 20,000 mark is reached to move. The reason for these deadlines is so this won't turn into an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members.
I guess the FSP decided to become "an unattainable pipedream endlessly sucking away the time and resources of our members."
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, that is tooooo funny!
I have a question for the anti-CD contingent.
What would you do to bring the absurdity of the current situation (obey your masters or else) to a broader public view?
What would you do to bring the absurdity of the current situation (obey your masters or else) to a broader public view?There are plenty of cases you can point to without creating new ones. But the broader public doesn't care.
I have a question for the anti-CD contingent.
What would you do to bring the absurdity of the current situation (obey your masters or else) to a broader public view?
The brainwashing goes deep and goons always see themselves as the victims and justify their force by that thinking.
What would you do to bring the absurdity of the current situation (obey your masters or else) to a broader public view?There are plenty of cases you can point to without creating new ones. But the broader public doesn't care.
I also don't care what the CD crowd does. I just don't understand why they would want to be locked up in a cage.
Sam has asked that you focus your calls on NH senator Molly Kelly and politely ask her these questions:What supreme court rulings is question 2 talking about?
1. Do you know there are district courts writing their own rules?
2. Do you know many of these rules are unconstitutional and against several supreme court rulings?
3. Did you know that Keene District Court is arresting political prisoners?
4. You may remember Sam. You have me him a few times. He is one of these political prisoners currently incarcerated.
5. Do you support the taking of these political prisoners?
Molly’s office number is 603-271-4153 and her home number is 603-357-5118.
Ivy reports that Sam may have a release hearing on Monday. Stay up to date on the Free Keene Forum. Activists are planning a Sunday night candlelight vigil for Sam.
The brainwashing goes deep and goons always see themselves as the victims and justify their force by that thinking.
I'm not sure I quite agree with that. I think the thugs and goons (and their superficially dignified superiors) view themselves as heros, glad to defend their artificial morality against defilers. They don't need to view themselves as victims; their misdeeds are justified by an innate superiority above anyone who acts on differing beliefs. Indeed, we're all just spoiled brats who deserve to be beaten and jailed into conformity. It's ironic the extent to which those who once died for freedom have spawned this tyranny.
I have a question for the anti-CD contingent.
What would you do to bring the absurdity of the current situation (obey your masters or else) to a broader public view?
I have a question for the anti-CD contingent.
What would you do to bring the absurdity of the current situation (obey your masters or else) to a broader public view?
and what has the current set of CD done? Which freedoms have these brave heroes been fighting for? My right to use a camera in court? Maybe I could dig a garden on public ground?
What, if any, broader public view has been gained other than the other CD activists that follow this stuff? Here's an answer...none.
I have a question for the anti-CD contingent.
What would you do to bring the absurdity of the current situation (obey your masters or else) to a broader public view?
and what has the current set of CD done? Which freedoms have these brave heroes been fighting for? My right to use a camera in court? Maybe I could dig a garden on public ground?
What, if any, broader public view has been gained other than the other CD activists that follow this stuff? Here's an answer...none.
Gee, I'd say I hate to break it to you but then I'd be lying, but...
Today I was able to get one of my statist co-workers to realize that he's been living in a dreamworld, in part due to the actions of SamIAm. Also today, another co-worker of mine decided it was time to look a bit further into the FSP and the idea of liberty in general, once again, due to the additional coverage that the people practicing CD have created. Like it or not, news travels and people talk about it. Once the fire of liberty has been lit in someone's mind, all it takes is some encouragement to grow bigger and burn hotter.
You might not agree with CD, and that's OK. But to dismiss it's effectiveness as a tool for bringing awareness to the issues, ESPECIALLY when it's over something as trivial as digging a garden, having a couch in your yard, or filming in a public place only emphasizes the abuses we've been allowing ourselves to be subjected to for far too long. After all, if it's silly to protest not being able to do those 'trivial' things, how absurd is it that the 'authorities' get so bent out of shape over it that they need to physically assault, injure, kidnap, and lie over them?
Be happy about that one person, but keep in mind that one person probably won't be willing to get thrown in jail, or they might actually *gasp* want to do the whole politics thing. If they choose to go the political route, don't do what so many other CD activists in NH do and shit all over them and tell them they are wasting their time. I compare the NHLA to the CD people and the only group that seems to be making any advances is the NHLA, no matter how small they may be.
(for what it's worth, I think the CD folks should do whatever makes them happy...it doesn't bother me one way or the other...They are still my brothers and sisters in Liberty!)
Sam Dodson, (SamIAm) was arrested at Keene district Court for recording without bureaucrat permission.
Note that Mr Gannon did violate New Hampshire's Law against audiotaping criminal cops to get the goods on them. Apparently the Majority of New Hampsters are filthy shitheads who want such Laws. We all know that there is a small Minority of New Hampsters who are NOT shitheads and DO want to allow Liberty for their neighbors, but they have a Democracy there and the Majority always get to put the Minority in a CAGE if they feel like it.
Sam is not charged with that law.
Sam Dodson, (SamIAm) was arrested at Keene district Court for recording without bureaucrat permission.
Yeah, nothing new in NH, they were getting press about this Law three years ago:
http://NHFree.org/thelist/Quote from: TheListNote that Mr Gannon did violate New Hampshire's Law against audiotaping criminal cops to get the goods on them. Apparently the Majority of New Hampsters are filthy shitheads who want such Laws. We all know that there is a small Minority of New Hampsters who are NOT shitheads and DO want to allow Liberty for their neighbors, but they have a Democracy there and the Majority always get to put the Minority in a CAGE if they feel like it.
NASHUA – Police won’t prosecute a man for using his home security system to record detectives on his front porch, Nashua Police Chief Timothy Hefferan announced Friday.(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7015/chief.gif)
Michael Gannon was arrested June 27 after he made the videotape to record conversations among detectives who were at his door looking for his 15-year-old son, who was being investigated in connection with a mugging downtown. When Gannon brought the videotape to a police station to complain that a detective was rude to him, he was arrested on felony wiretapping charges.
The case attracted attention around the world, as news spread via the Internet. The Telegraph and city police received scores of phone calls and e-mails condemning the charges.
In addition to dropping the case against him, Nashua police also have concluded that Gannon’s complaint about the detective was justified, although the chief added that Gannon himself was “provocative” and “disrespectful.” The chief declined to say what discipline the detective might face.
Sam is not charged with that law.Correct.
I am pretty sure Mr. Gannon was charged with CHAPTER 570-A WIRETAPPING AND EAVESDROPPING
It's called a slavery complex
The slave actively seeks out more punishment from his master in order to make the master a self destructive monster. It ends up killing the slave
The other slavery complex is to be too helpful, keep his glass full, so to speak. He'll consume himself to death.
At least this is what I've read about.
Allowing other people to treat us badly is a subtle form of aggression
against them.
It arises from a fairly primitive time in our species, when slavery and
hyper-control dominated our interactions.
If a slave hates his master – as deep down he surely does – but cannot
retaliate against him in any violent or assertive manner, what are his
options?
Well, when you want somebody dead, but you cannot kill him openly,
your best option is to exacerbate his unhealthy habits.
In other words, a slave can eventually take vengeance on his master by
continually bringing him a drink, sitting with him while he drinks, and
endlessly offering to refill his glass.
On a psychological level, the slave can effectively re-create his own
misery in the mind of his master by both provoking and submitting to
bullying.
Every time the master beats the slave, the misery and self-loathing of the
master increases. Every time the master screams at the slave, the soul of
the master dies a little more. Every whip of the lash kills the master’s
capacity for love, contentment and peace of mind.
This, of course, is Nietzsche’s “slave morality,” in which the slave takes a
form of masochistic satisfaction and dark glee in the spiritual
destruction of his master. The passive-aggressive “moral superiority” of
the slave is the only satisfaction that such a beaten-down creature can
hope for.
The problem, however, is that by continually pursuing the insidious
satisfaction of passive-aggressive masochism, the slave often becomes
dangerously addicted to this form of vengeance.
In other words, the slave becomes addicted to having a master and finds
life without this form of underhanded revenge entirely lacking in
stimulation and satisfaction.
Correct.
And the solution to that problem that the NHLA has been working on, is HB312
http://www.nhliberty.org/bills/view?bill=HB312&year=2009
Passed by a solid margin in the House of Representatives (206-142) and is on its way now to the Senate.
Correct.
And the solution to that problem that the NHLA has been working on, is HB312
http://www.nhliberty.org/bills/view?bill=HB312&year=2009
Passed by a solid margin in the House of Representatives (206-142) and is on its way now to the Senate.
Unfortunately, illegal activity like beating people up isn't part of 'official duties' so you can only record them when they are behaving properly.
Unintended consequences? Surely you jest.
What Mr. Gannon did was within the law.Sam is not charged with that law.Correct.
I am pretty sure Mr. Gannon was charged with CHAPTER 570-A WIRETAPPING AND EAVESDROPPING
And the solution to that problem that the NHLA has been working on, is HB312
http://www.nhliberty.org/bills/view?bill=HB312&year=2009
Passed by a solid margin in the House of Representatives (206-142) and is on its way now to the Senate.
II. ""Oral communication'' means any oral communication uttered by a person exhibiting an expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation.This is where the police fail. They were on his front porch. The camera was in plain view, and there was a sign that said audio and video monitoring was happening. Mr. Gannon also informed the police of the audio and video recording.
I. A person is guilty of a class B felony if, except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter or without the consent of all parties to the communication, the person:
(a) Wilfully intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept, any telecommunication or oral communication;
Sam is not charged with that law.
I am pretty sure Mr. Gannon was charged with CHAPTER 570-A WIRETAPPING AND EAVESDROPPING
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/RSA/html/LVIII/570-A/570-A-mrg.htm
Section 644:2
644:2 Disorderly Conduct. – A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:
I. He knowingly or purposely creates a condition which is hazardous to himself or another in a public place by any action which serves no legitimate purpose; or
II. He or she:
(a) Engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior in a public place; or
(b) Directs at another person in a public place obscene, derisive, or offensive words which are likely to provoke a violent reaction on the part of an ordinary person; or
(c) Obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic on any public street or sidewalk or the entrance to any public building; or
(d) Engages in conduct in a public place which substantially interferes with a criminal investigation, a firefighting operation to which RSA 154:17 is applicable, the provision of emergency medical treatment, or the provision of other emergency services when traffic or pedestrian management is required; or
(e) Knowingly refuses to comply with a lawful order of a peace officer to move from or remain away from any public place; or
III. He purposely causes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creates a risk thereof, by:
(a) Making loud or unreasonable noises in a public place, or making loud or unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place or other private places, which noises would disturb a person of average sensibilities; or
(b) Disrupting the orderly conduct of business in any public or governmental facility; or
(c) Disrupting any lawful assembly or meeting of persons without lawful authority.
III-a. When noise under subparagraph III(a) is emanating from a vehicle's sound system or any portable sound system located within a vehicle, a law enforcement officer shall be considered a person of average sensibilities for purposes of determining whether the volume of such noise constitutes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, and the officer may take enforcement action to abate such noise upon detecting the noise, or upon receiving a complaint from another person.
IV. (a) Whenever a peace officer has probable cause to believe that a serious threat to the public health or safety is created by a flood, storm, fire, earthquake, explosion, riot, ongoing criminal activity that poses a risk of bodily injury, or other disaster, the officer may close the area where the threat exists and the adjacent area necessary to control the threat or to prevent its spread, for the duration of the threat, until related law enforcement, fire, and emergency medical service operations are complete, by means of ropes, markers, uniformed emergency service personnel, or any other reasonable means, to any persons not authorized by a peace officer or emergency services personnel to enter or remain within the closed area.
(b) Peace officers may close the immediate area surrounding any emergency field command post activated for the purpose of abating any threat enumerated in this paragraph to any unauthorized persons, whether or not the field command post is located near the source of the threat.
(c) Any unauthorized person who knowingly enters an area closed pursuant to this paragraph or who knowingly remains within the area after receiving a lawful order from a peace officer to leave shall be guilty of disorderly conduct.
V. In this section:
(a) ""Lawful order'' means:
(1) A command issued to any person for the purpose of preventing said person from committing any offense set forth in this section, or in any section of Title LXII or Title XXI, when the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that said person is about to commit any such offense, or when said person is engaged in a course of conduct which makes his commission of such an offense imminent;
(2) A command issued to any person to stop him from continuing to commit any offense set forth in this section, or in any section of Title LXII or Title XXI, when the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that said person is presently engaged in conduct which constitutes any such offense; or
(3) A command not to enter or a command to leave an area closed pursuant to paragraph IV, provided that a person may not lawfully be ordered to leave his or her own home or business.
(b) ""Public place'' means any place to which the public or a substantial group has access. The term includes, but is not limited to, public ways, sidewalks, schools, hospitals, government offices or facilities, and the lobbies or hallways of apartment buildings, dormitories, hotels or motels.
VI. Disorderly conduct is a misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by any person to desist; otherwise, it is a violation.
Source. 1971, 518:1. 1983, 200:1. 1985, 309:1. 2005, 192:1, 2, eff. June 30, 2005; 260:2, 3, eff. July 22, 2005.
What Mr. Gannon did was within the law.From a legal standpoint... that is not yet determined.
If you read the law, it is very clear. It is a wiretapping law.What Mr. Gannon did was within the law.From a legal standpoint... that is not yet determined.
Ann Rice from the NH AG's office says the legal situation is "unclear"
The court has never ruled on this aspect of the law; they keep throwing it out.
Sam is still being heldUntil he gives his legal name.
He is being told that he will be held indefinitely. . .
Our friend, co-blogger, and documentarian Sam from the Obscured Truth Network called me from jail today to tell me they did hold a bail hearing for him by video and the presiding judge Howard Lane (Burke is on vacation this week.) told him he will be held indefinitely until he decides to give them his “legal name”. Sam is currently held as “John Sam Doe”. Even if he were to give them that name, how it is they will be certain that the name he gives them is legal, I don’t know, as they don’t have ID for him and he hasn’t registered to vote in NH. Sam has not indicated that he will be giving in, meaning he’s stuck in the Cheshire County jail, which despite being one of the better jails in the state, still has its share of problems. Sam said that there was sewage floating in his area of the jail when he arrived, for instance. Plus, they are denying him access to the jail law library, making it even more difficult for him to participate in their tyrannical system.
Sam is still being heldUntil he gives his legal name.
He is being told that he will be held indefinitely. . .
Does the dude really think they will let him out on bail without him giving up his name?
"John Sam Doe" doesn't cut it.
http://freekeene.com/2009/04/20/update-sam-jailed-indefinitely-without-access-to-law-library/QuoteOur friend, co-blogger, and documentarian Sam from the Obscured Truth Network called me from jail today to tell me they did hold a bail hearing for him by video and the presiding judge Howard Lane (Burke is on vacation this week.) told him he will be held indefinitely until he decides to give them his “legal name”. Sam is currently held as “John Sam Doe”. Even if he were to give them that name, how it is they will be certain that the name he gives them is legal, I don’t know, as they don’t have ID for him and he hasn’t registered to vote in NH. Sam has not indicated that he will be giving in, meaning he’s stuck in the Cheshire County jail, which despite being one of the better jails in the state, still has its share of problems. Sam said that there was sewage floating in his area of the jail when he arrived, for instance. Plus, they are denying him access to the jail law library, making it even more difficult for him to participate in their tyrannical system.
I don't understand it. Has he been standing silent at court appearances so far?
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE COMING DAYS OF HORROR, TERROR, AND ATROCITIES...
enjoy!
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE COMING DAYS OF HORROR, TERROR, AND ATROCITIES...
enjoy!
There's always another path, and education is the key to recognizing that path.
The truth of the matter is(and has been throughout history)...at some tipping point in time...people will REACT en masse and will not permit the jackbooted kidnappers/rapists/murderers to "operate" within their midst...
Then foreign peace-keeping forces will be brought in by the hundreds of thousands from China and elsewhere...and these foreign troops with machine-guns will be "in charge" of you...your spouse...your children...your loved ones...your neighbors...your friends...your relatives...
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE COMING DAYS OF HORROR, TERROR, AND ATROCITIES...
The truth of the matter is(and has been throughout history)...at some tipping point in time...people will REACT en masse and will not permit the jackbooted kidnappers/rapists/murderers to "operate" within their midst...
The truth of the matter is (and has been throughout history) that no one is likely to revolt at all.
This is especially true in the United States, where we have Democracy! The Vast Majority are getting just what they want from Government. There is no reason for them to change anything. They are well served by the present system. They want the Laws that oppress Minorities (that would be We). They prefer it this way. They want to be able to tell their neighbors what to do and how to live their lives. They want to imprison whores and nudists and gamblers and donkey-fuckers. Did you honestly think it likely that they will want to change all that? That a small contingent of misfits can persuade the filthy Majority to give up this power they have enjoyed over us for centuries?
No, sad to say, an approximate Democracy cannot be toppled by rousing The Masses against The Government, for the simple fact that The Masses pretty much ARE The Government.
A Tyranny Of The Majority must be opposed by gathering together in one place grafton ellsworth where we ARE The Majority.
Quote
Then foreign peace-keeping forces will be brought in by the hundreds of thousands from China and elsewhere...and these foreign troops with machine-guns will be "in charge" of you...your spouse...your children...your loved ones...your neighbors...your friends...your relatives...
In contradiction to your point above - those other countries have not seen a mass uprising, and they're not even Democratic.
Quote
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE COMING DAYS OF HORROR, TERROR, AND ATROCITIES...
True dat.
Wow, I think you said everything I had on my mind. I'm just glad I never actually signed the damn pledge in the first place! The more I see of this ridiculous "I'm gonna try to get my ass beat by the Po-lice" CD crap the more I don't want to move to NH. You guys know i've been in CA my entire life, but the more I see this kind of holier than thou CD crap the more I want to move to Texas or Montana or Wyoming when I'm done with school INSTEAD of NH.All of this is going on here, too. Instead of bitching about what you think won’t work, how about you just do something you think will?
So... You are making an assumption that I'm not already, huh? Funny that you say this immediately after posting this gem:QuoteA nice demonstration of why people who aren’t even here probably shouldn’t comment on what’s going on.QuoteHave any more theories I can demolish with actual facts?
Most of the people moving to NH aren't Libertarians, they're a bunch of religious constitutionalists with ZERO philosophical backing for their views beyond the NAP. Not only that, your little hero of the day is promoting the idea that people deserve whatever they get from the government anyway, while at the same time hypocritically defying it. He should just accept the fact that he wants the government to be a giant, overbearing monstrosity, because it obviously wouldn't be so is he didn't want it that way.
Most of the early adopters of the FSP (The REAL fucking early adopters, you know, the ones who signed up back before the FSP was supposed to be canceled in 2006?) were a bunch of LP members (For what that's worth) and Objectivists. News flash, the vast majority of those people walked away. There were a couple hundred.
I know, here comes "Yeah well we don't need them anyway! They're a bunch of quitters!"
No. No. They are doing exactly what they signed up to do. They're just not going to NH. I can name a good fifty people I know personally that have moved... "South". And what do they have that the NH movers don't?
A. Jobs.
B. Money.
C. A place to live.
They're your actual movers and shakers, who work their asses off, make a buck, and keep their heads down while living free, rather than standing around out in the street calling themselves winners because they can yell at some street cop, and calling themselves even bigger winners if said street cop pays them any attention by kicking their ass.
But yeah, you guys keep those cameras running and have a great big circle jerk in your insulated little community, where everyone has convinced everyone else that ya'll are making a bunch of massive changes. Go on and on about me, and make the very very ignorant assumption that because I've got criticisms of what you folks are doing, that I MUST not be doing anything, myself. Maybe I'm just not a fucking attention whoring masochist.
Goddammit, it seems like every interaction I have with a holier than thou free stater makes me more anti FSP. Used to be that I WAS an FSPer, and then I decided to be a non-FSPer, and you self righteous pricks are turning me into an anti-FSP person with your high horse, arrogant comments.
You are not the center of the freedom movement. You are a part of it. You are not in the only place that matters. You will not win other liberty lovers over to your cause by calling them names for not joining your little collective.
Collectivism sucks, and it seems like the most vocal proponents of the FSP are turning into a bunch of collectivists. Good fucking luck.
Wow, I think you said everything I had on my mind. I'm just glad I never actually signed the damn pledge in the first place! The more I see of this ridiculous "I'm gonna try to get my ass beat by the Po-lice" CD crap the more I don't want to move to NH. You guys know i've been in CA my entire life, but the more I see this kind of holier than thou CD crap the more I want to move to Texas or Montana or Wyoming when I'm done with school INSTEAD of NH.
Bring on the "We don't need your Jew ass anyways" you other people.
I would be down to participate in some CD, but a lot of the crap I keep seeing is jerk offs getting in front of cops and asking to get their asses kicked. That's not what I'm about. I'd rather not get my ass kicked and fight for change.
http://freekeene.com/2009/04/21/why-im-in-jail-right-now/
Why I’m In Jail Right Now
Ian, Mark, Keeniacs, Friends, and Family,
... Gandhi saiid it best: “First the laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
No, sorry, the usual outcome is that the "resisters" do not persist, they are ground under and flushed away and you never give them another thought; you remember the parts you want to remember.
No, sorry, the usual outcome is that the "resisters" do not persist, they are ground under and flushed away and you never give them another thought; you remember the parts you want to remember.
I have to agree. I cannot think of any change in fiction "government" that has come about without violence. It is a sad fact of life but the "goons" only acknowledge force. Resistance to tyranny is in itself a "forceful" act. Force sometimes (usualy) causes injury. I would love to be wrong here so prove me wrong already...
history repeats
thugsters will be thugsters
The John Galt Solution is the only solution
history repeats
thugsters will be thugsters
Everyone has seen the clip of the lone guy blocking the tank in Tienanmen Square. What you probably have not seen is the next part that they cut out - where the goons run in and grab him.Quote
The John Galt Solution is the only solution
Well yes, in a sense, but not in Ayn Rand's sense. Atlas Shrugged (http://AtlasShruggedTheMovie.com) depended upon the world's need and dependence upon "men of ability". Unfortunately, New Hampshire does not need us. Our withdrawing will not be mourned.
What we can do is gather together where we can defend ourselves against their Force by using the Force of Voting to prevent their enForcement of their Evil Laws in our small Town.
Here I think you're a little misguided, perhaps as the majority are, with respect to the John Galt Solution...
The solution does not require that those wishing to emulate Galt must have some sort of earth-shattering revelation/invention/cure/etc...
The solution only requires that you attempt, as much as a person desires, to produce nothing extra...to not drink from the tit...but also to not feed the beast that the utter belongs to...
Sooner or later the whole house of cards is going to collapse and those who are dependent on it will perish along with it...
Here I think you're a little misguided, perhaps as the majority are, with respect to the John Galt Solution...
The solution does not require that those wishing to emulate Galt must have some sort of earth-shattering revelation/invention/cure/etc...
The solution only requires that you attempt, as much as a person desires, to produce nothing extra...to not drink from the tit...but also to not feed the beast that the utter belongs to...
Sooner or later the whole house of cards is going to collapse and those who are dependent on it will perish along with it...
"Starve The Beast" types obviously have never heard of Zimbabwe.
Here I think you're a little misguided, perhaps as the majority are, with respect to the John Galt Solution...
The solution does not require that those wishing to emulate Galt must have some sort of earth-shattering revelation/invention/cure/etc...
The solution only requires that you attempt, as much as a person desires, to produce nothing extra...to not drink from the tit...but also to not feed the beast that the utter belongs to...
Sooner or later the whole house of cards is going to collapse and those who are dependent on it will perish along with it...
"Starve The Beast" types obviously have never heard of Zimbabwe.
And "Confront the man" types have never heard of everywhere else in the world.
However, Confronting The Man to show the gun (as Galt did) is useful for its effect upon those one wants to enlighten.
Yeah they do. They listen to The Man.However, Confronting The Man to show the gun (as Galt did) is useful for its effect upon those one wants to enlighten.
People don't listen.
Yeah they do. They listen to The Man.However, Confronting The Man to show the gun (as Galt did) is useful for its effect upon those one wants to enlighten.
People don't listen.
Yeah they do. They listen to The Man.However, Confronting The Man to show the gun (as Galt did) is useful for its effect upon those one wants to enlighten.
People don't listen.
Alright, I stand corrected. But still, I think my point stands.
Let me rephrase - People don't listen to US.
Yeah they do. They listen to The Man.However, Confronting The Man to show the gun (as Galt did) is useful for its effect upon those one wants to enlighten.
People don't listen.
Alright, I stand corrected. But still, I think my point stands.
Let me rephrase - People don't listen to US.
Force can not bring positive results. The stop feeding the monster won't work unless it is nation wide.
I just realized my eyes glaze over when I see your posts NHA10 because I already know what you're going to say.
I just realized my eyes glaze over when I see your posts NHA10 because I already know what you're going to say.
the imprint is complete, although some are more aware of it than others...
some will have their own personal "ah ha" moment with enough time to escape...
others won't have it until their testicles are smashed and their clitorises are cut off with broken glass or a disgarded piece of tin can...
as always, your mileage may vary...
you do have a choice...
run forest run...
go figure...
enjoy!
...
at some point, the whole thing goes upside down and the monster ceases to be fed in the traditional methods of taxation...
then, the jackbooted-tax-collector-read-looters...will go around seizing anything/everything that they can get their hands on to feed themselves and their families and their fellow bureaucrats...
most of the mobocracy will loot til everything is gone and then they will kill and eat each other and then eventually starve to death...
this will happen no matter how few or how many "go Galt"....
I just realized my eyes glaze over when I see your posts NHA10 because I already know what you're going to say.
the imprint is complete, although some are more aware of it than others...
some will have their own personal "ah ha" moment with enough time to escape...
others won't have it until their testicles are smashed and their clitorises are cut off with broken glass or a disgarded piece of tin can...
as always, your mileage may vary...
you do have a choice...
run forest run...
go figure...
enjoy!
...
He didn't say he understood you, he just said he knew what you were going to say.
I’m a little weak from the hunger strike. I am drinking milk with a light sprinkle of Carnation Instant Breakfast. Another prisoner gave me some multi-vitamins. That has really helped.
I don't understand hunger strikes that involve more than drinking water.
Milk? What a pussy.
I don't understand hunger strikes that involve more than drinking water.
Yeah, it kinda negates the point.
I don't understand hunger strikes that involve more than drinking water.
Yeah, it kinda negates the point.
If he continues to not eat he wont be able to think straight, and thus will eventually slip up and tell them his name.
A hunger strike was probably not the best idea, then.
A hunger strike was probably not the best idea, then.
I don't get hunger strikes. Do they want to illicit sympathy? Do they think it works? I'm sympathetic towards a harmless person being in jail. I'm sympathetic about the terrible food (some worse than others) available to them. I'm incredibly sympathetic about being awake at 3am and hungry and nothing you can do about it, to me that's the worst part of jail. Increasing your own suffering because you refuse to eat at all... I don't get it.
I spoke with Sam this morning. He’s wondering if he should stay in jail as the writ of habeas corpus is taken to the NH supreme court. (The superior court judge denied it, saying he couldn’t let Sam out without having his “legal” name.) Sam also didn’t get mail yesterday, which he seemed bummed about. I suggested the guards have been holding his mail. I also suggested he start eating. The hunger strike hasn’t done anything to gain publicity for his case, and will only serve to weaken his composition and distract his mind. Two weeks is enough, especially for someone with Sam’s body type. So, to get out of jail, he can either wait there and see what happens, pay $10,000 cash bail (which you can bet will have whatever fines he’s ordered to pay taken out of it after a trial, so this is the worst option), or give up his “legal name”, which may lead to a bail hearing and release on recognizance.
Keene District Court
Standing Order Re:
Cameras in the Coutroom and Other Areas
In accordance with District Court Rule 1.4 (e)(1), the Supreme Court's Order dated January 11, 2008, and the inherent discretion of the Court in supervising the proceedings that come before it, the print and broadcast media, as well as the public, are advised that, unless otherwise permitted by the Court, pool coverage will be required will be required for all video and still photographers at any courtroom proceeding. Two seats, at stationary locations determined by the Court, will be reserved for one video and one still photographer representing credentialed media. Designation of the pool photographers will be determined by members of the media who want to partipate in the pool. [Note: the next two sentences are a repeat of the previous two.] Two seats, at stationary locations determined by the Court, will be reserved for one video and one still photographer representing credentialed media. Designation of the pool photographers will be determined by members of the media who want to partipate in the pool.
No photgraphy is permitted in the in the lobby and corridors outside the coutroom.
All celluar telephones, including those with cameras functions, muts be turned off ot put in silent mode prior to entering the courtroom. hand-held tape recording devices and laptop computers are permitted, unless the presiding determines that the use of such equipment is distracting from the proper administration of coutr proceedings. Computers may not be used for photographic purposes. No photography may take place prior to the presiding judge taking the bench. The pubilc seating area may not be photographed.
All persons intending to use cameras or recording devices are expected to be familiar with District Court Rule 1.4 in its entirety. A copy of Rule 1.4 is availabe for inspection by contacting a bailiff. Being granted permission to record court proceedings is deemed agreement to abide by these rules. Any violation may be punished as contempt and/or as a criminal offense.
February 18, 2009
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=880.msg7645#msg7645QuoteKeene District Court
Standing Order Re:
Cameras in the Coutroom and Other Areas
In accordance with District Court Rule 1.4 (e)(1), the Supreme Court's Order dated January 11, 2008, and the inherent discretion of the Court in supervising the proceedings that come before it, the print and broadcast media, as well as the public, are advised that, unless otherwise permitted by the Court, pool coverage will be required will be required for all video and still photographers at any courtroom proceeding. Two seats, at stationary locations determined by the Court, will be reserved for one video and one still photographer representing credentialed media. Designation of the pool photographers will be determined by members of the media who want to partipate in the pool. [Note: the next two sentences are a repeat of the previous two.] Two seats, at stationary locations determined by the Court, will be reserved for one video and one still photographer representing credentialed media. Designation of the pool photographers will be determined by members of the media who want to partipate in the pool.
No photgraphy is permitted in the in the lobby and corridors outside the coutroom.
All celluar telephones, including those with cameras functions, muts be turned off ot put in silent mode prior to entering the courtroom. hand-held tape recording devices and laptop computers are permitted, unless the presiding determines that the use of such equipment is distracting from the proper administration of coutr proceedings. Computers may not be used for photographic purposes. No photography may take place prior to the presiding judge taking the bench. The pubilc seating area may not be photographed.
All persons intending to use cameras or recording devices are expected to be familiar with District Court Rule 1.4 in its entirety. A copy of Rule 1.4 is availabe for inspection by contacting a bailiff. Being granted permission to record court proceedings is deemed agreement to abide by these rules. Any violation may be punished as contempt and/or as a criminal offense.
February 18, 2009
I assume some of the mail he gets has his full name on it. No doubt they know who he is. It really just comes down to the fact that they want to force him to declare his identity.
I just talked to Ivy and she says that they got his name from his fingerprints and that she might now be allowed to represent him. Depends on the ruling which we'll figure out today or tomorrow.
Besides writing to Sam himself, who should we be calling or emailing if we want to petition for Sam's release?
So... I put my name on that form, because he won't.
Feds are gonna laugh themselves sick over this one.
Tuesday, April 28:
Today at breakfast we were only given one half cup of milk today instead of the usual two. Given that milk is all I’m drinking, and I did my full set of stretches along with 2/3 of a yoga workout, my body needed it.
In general terms, eating (formally, ingestion) is the process of consuming food to provide for the nutritional needs of an animal, particularly their energy requirements and to grow.
Food is any substance, usually composed of carbohydrates, fats, proteins and water, that can be eaten or drunk by an animal or human for nutrition or pleasure.
It's kinda weird to claim to be a reporter, and also refuse to identify yourself.
Kudos to Strike-The-Root Guest Editor Mike Powers for including a good story on Sam!
http://www.strike-the-root.com/
http://www.examiner.com/x-1449-Dallas-Libertarian-Examiner~y2009m5d3-Jailed-for-the-right-to-remain-silent
It's kinda weird to claim to be a reporter, and also refuse to identify yourself.
Kudos to Strike-The-Root Guest Editor Mike Powers for including a good story on Sam!
http://www.strike-the-root.com/
http://www.examiner.com/x-1449-Dallas-Libertarian-Examiner~y2009m5d3-Jailed-for-the-right-to-remain-silent
"Any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to the police under any circumstances." -- Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, Watts v. Indiana, 1949
Quoted in "Don't talk to the police" by Professor James Duane, the very fast-speaking and somewhat annoying law professor in this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865)
I'm only 1/4 of the way through, not sure what I think yet.
Sam’s Jail Blog: Thursday, April 30
....
Burke’s order continues:
“Should the defendant decide he is willing to provide true and accurate identifying information about himself — the kind of information any other defendant is expected to provide — and is willing to accept the conditions of bail, the court will schedule a video arraignment as soon as possible thereafter.”
“Until then the court is unwilling to schedule a trial date. While the prospect of the defendant’s indefinite confinement is distasteful, the court reiterates, however, that the defendant holds the key to his release.”
Sam is holding the keys to the jail in his own pocket. Identifying himself and agreeing to return for the trial are the keys.
http://freekeene.com/2009/05/04/sams-jail-blog-thursday-april-30/QuoteSam’s Jail Blog: Thursday, April 30
....
Burke’s order continues:
“Should the defendant decide he is willing to provide true and accurate identifying information about himself — the kind of information any other defendant is expected to provide — and is willing to accept the conditions of bail, the court will schedule a video arraignment as soon as possible thereafter.”
“Until then the court is unwilling to schedule a trial date. While the prospect of the defendant’s indefinite confinement is distasteful, the court reiterates, however, that the defendant holds the key to his release.”Sam is holding the keys to the jail in his own pocket. Identifying himself and agreeing to return for the trial are the keys.
But, humans have rights in our system, right? I mean, without that, humans are no different than any other animals. So, we must afford each other rights or expose our base, animalistic sides.You know what else humans have in "our" system?
Legal name is often the name which an individual is called at birth or which appears on their birth certificate (see birth name) or marriage certificate (in places that have a statute allowing a name change to be recorded at marriage).
A person's legal name typically comprises their given name and a family name. The order varies according to culture and country. There are also country-by-country differences on changes of legal names by marriage, see married name.
...
United States
Most states still allow the common law of changing one's name through non-fraudulent use and this is actually the most common method since most women who marry do not petition a court under the statutorily prescribed method, but simply use a new name (typically the husband's, a custom which started under the theory of coverture where a woman lost her identity and most rights when she married).[1] Most state courts have held that a legally assumed name (i.e., for a non-fraudulent purpose) is a legal name and usable as their true name, though assumed names are often not considered the person's technically true name.[2]
References
1 In re Natale, 527 S.W.2d 402 (Mo. App. 1975); In re Kruzel, 226 N.W.2d 458 (Wis. 1975).
2 Stuart v. Board of Supervisors, 295 A.2d 223 (Md. Ct. App. 1972); In re Hauptly, 312 N.E.2d 857 (Ind. 1974); United States v. Cox, 593 F.2d 46 (6th Cir. 1979). See also 10 U.S.C. § 1551 (2006).
But, humans have rights in our system, right? I mean, without that, humans are no different than any other animals. So, we must afford each other rights or expose our base, animalistic sides.You know what else humans have in "our" system?
A legal name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_nameQuoteLegal name is often the name which an individual is called at birth or which appears on their birth certificate (see birth name) or marriage certificate (in places that have a statute allowing a name change to be recorded at marriage).
A person's legal name typically comprises their given name and a family name. The order varies according to culture and country. There are also country-by-country differences on changes of legal names by marriage, see married name.
...
United States
Most states still allow the common law of changing one's name through non-fraudulent use and this is actually the most common method since most women who marry do not petition a court under the statutorily prescribed method, but simply use a new name (typically the husband's, a custom which started under the theory of coverture where a woman lost her identity and most rights when she married).[1] Most state courts have held that a legally assumed name (i.e., for a non-fraudulent purpose) is a legal name and usable as their true name, though assumed names are often not considered the person's technically true name.[2]
References
1 In re Natale, 527 S.W.2d 402 (Mo. App. 1975); In re Kruzel, 226 N.W.2d 458 (Wis. 1975).
2 Stuart v. Board of Supervisors, 295 A.2d 223 (Md. Ct. App. 1972); In re Hauptly, 312 N.E.2d 857 (Ind. 1974); United States v. Cox, 593 F.2d 46 (6th Cir. 1979). See also 10 U.S.C. § 1551 (2006).
Sam's situation is a childish game on the part of the bureaucrats. They already know what they think they need to know, but they want him to vocalize a name to prove they can force him to do anything.I would say it is childish on the part of Sam as well.
Sam's situation is a childish game on the part of the bureaucrats. They already know what they think they need to know, but they want him to vocalize a name to prove they can force him to do anything.I would say it is childish on the part of Sam as well.
But in "our" system, Sam must to agree to the conditions of bail, and sign those conditions before they will let him go.
And what about the $10,000 cash bail? According to Ian, Sam can get out using the name "John Sam Doe" if he posts $10,000 bail. It sounds like he options besides giving up his name. But he would still need to agree to the conditions of bail.
As I understand it, there are no bail conditions and none will be set until it puts the lotion on its skin. It's incredibly naive to think that any bail conditions would be set, let alone reasonable ones once they get the monkey to dance "voluntarily".
So, to get out of jail, he can either wait there and see what happens, pay $10,000 cash bail (which you can bet will have whatever fines he’s ordered to pay taken out of it after a trial, so this is the worst option), or give up his “legal name”, which may lead to a bail hearing and release on recognizance.
So... I put my name on that form, because he won't.Just use "John Sam Doe" for a name.
1) can Burke imprison Sam forever so long as Sam refuses to ID himself? I think not but I don't know the law on this issue.This is the government we're talking about here. They make up the rules as they go along. It's like playing Monopoly and the banker always changing the rules of the Free Parking space.
2) if Sam wants to testify at his own trial, will he be required to ID himself in order to do so? Would his continued refusal to ID himself result in the exclusion of his testimony?As long as he refuses to ID himself, I highly doubt there will be a trial.
With all of the other stuff that they have collected verifying his "legal name", there is NO reason why he should not have been released once they found out what his legal name is.Even if they know his legal name, and he verifies it, he still need to agree to return for the trial before they will release him. If he doesn't consent to that, they will not release him.
Sam is now listed as “Sam A. Miller”
I bet if he was a real criminal they would not be holding off a trial because he did not consent. No, they would proceed anyway. This is clearly an attempt to force him to play by the rules.
For more than 100 years, courts in the United States have held that, according to the United States Constitution, a criminal defendant's right to appear in person at their trial, as a matter of due process is protected under the Fifth, Sixth, and Fourteenth Amendments.
...
Although United States Congress codified this right by approving Rule 43 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure in 1946 and amended the Rule in 1973, the right is not absolute.
....
However, the following exceptions are included in the Rule:
-if he persists in disruptive conduct after being warned that such conduct will cause him to be removed from the courtroom,
Basically, superior court judge Brian T. Tucker says since there has not yet been a trial (that they refuse to hold unless Sam gives them his legal name, which they already have), the writs are “dismissed”.
Please call 603-352-6902 before 4pm ET and request judge Tucker rule on the writ of habeas corpus for John Sam Doe, Docket #09-E-0085, today.
The good news is the state is apparently dropping the disorderly conduct charge along with the possession without a serial number charge. Of course, if the original arresting charge (disorderly) is being dropped, shouldn’t that also negate the follow up charges of “resisting arrest” and “refusal to process”. Are we close to Sam’s release?
UPDATE: Maybe not. Word from Ivy is the gangsters will now be charging him with their other favorite, “Criminal Contempt” of court. We’ll keep you informed as this develops.
Update for today:
I had a very very pleasing day today in my travels around Keene.
First stop was Cheshire County Superior Court. Wednesday (yesterday) at 4pm was the deadline for VanWickler to file a response to the latest writ I had filed, and specifically the court wanted a response to the "allegation" that Keene District Court was refusing to set a trial date.
He, through his attorney, County Attorney John Webb, filed their response, which basically said Yep, that's right. Keene District Court's not setting a trial.
There was no other argument or objection to the petition or writ - their entire filing was simply that what I had said was accurate.
This tells me the petition has a very very good chance of getting approved - keep your fingers crossed.
The judge who is assigned to this docket (Judge Brian Tucker) according to the clerk is the kind of judge that will weigh heavily the case before making a decision. This is good, in my opinion, however it means he won't just make a quick ruling either. She said his docket was fairly heavy today, and he is out of the office tomorrow, but he will be in on Monday and she expects he will make a ruling then.
Next stop was Keene District Court. There I discovered the prosecutor in the case is no longer Eliezer Rivera, but rather a Chris McLaughlin has taken over this case. I discovered they have dropped the charges of "Disorderly Conduct" and "Possession of Property Without a Serial Number" charges. All three of these actions seem in response to the Demurrers I had filed.
Next stop was Keene Police Department. There I discovered they plan on entering a new charge of "Criminal Contempt" against Sam. The prosecutor said something about contempt of the court order to not film in the lobby.
Azn This is great - now I get to challenge the "order" directly.
He's lost 50 pounds in the last couple weeks?
Comment by Sam's Dad
May 17, 2009 @ 4:38 pm
Mark emailed me and confirmed it was a typo. He’s at 160 or maybe a few pounds less. A good thing because I was on the internet making reservations to get up there.
Sam ate yesterday after seeing the article. I think he felt like the media was finally responding in the way he had hoped the hunger strike would accomplish.
Holy smokes:
(http://www.keenesentinel.com/content/articles/2009/05/17/news/local/free/id_356129.jpg)
In another week he'll be able to just slip through the bars sideways.
http://www.keenesentinel.com/articles/2009/05/17/news/local/free/id_356129.txt
I can't believe these guys are taking legal advice from Ivy.
I can't believe these guys are taking legal advice from Ivy.
I have a theory that most of these guys like to be dominated by women.
I can't believe these guys are taking legal advice from Ivy.
I have a theory that most of these guys like to be dominated by women.
Quote from: Mike BarskeyQuote from: FTL_IanI'm taking care of ordering a few books Sam has requested - can someone bring some cash for his commissary with them during next visitation?
Last Sunday, Sam requested US$20.00 in his commissary account. We added US$45.00. Did the jailers not give it to him? I still have the receipt.
He spent it on oatmeal and I don't recall what else. He did get it.
They are gunna need a lot of luck. Now Sam has a "legal team".I can't believe these guys are taking legal advice from Ivy.
I first became aware of the activism in Keene as a result of Ian's imprisonment for contempt. One of my first comments related my surprise about the lack of any attorneys involved. Activists who plan on getting arrested should always have at least one attorney with whom they can consult before and after arrest IMHO, but I found that my opinion on this subject is unpopular among activists. Sam doesn't automatically eschew attorneys, but for some reason he doesn't feel the need to seek one out in this case.
I wish Sam and Ivy the best of luck.
Sam’s Jail Blog: Monday, May 18
SamIam at 5:50 pm on Friday, May 22, 2009
Monday, May 18:
Will the wonders of the so called NH “Justice” system ever cease? The prosecutor, now the country attorney, is getting really desperate in his attempt to clean up the mess created by Keene District Court security and the Keene Police Department. The demurs clearly show the charges are deficient and suffer fatal flaws. That presents a problem. They have held me in jail for over a month on baseless trumped up charges, and they need to save face. So they picked the weakest two and dropped them. They are also the two even remotely related to the issue at hand - Burke over stepping his authority, and freedom of the press. Government likes to use the court system they designed to control the discussion and obscure anything remotely damaging to their railroading process.
When all else fails, it’s time to use the good old standby, contempt. Look it up in the statutes, and you won’t find it. It’s a magical charge that one tyrant in a black dress used to jail over 35 people overnight when a cellphone went off in “his” courtroom.
When these judges refer to courtrooms as “theirs,” surely they mean the people’s It was after all designed as an independent party to mediate disputes on behalf of the people. It is after all the people being forced to pay for all of this, including the roughly $3,000 they have spent on your behalf keeping me here.
Only, there’s a problem they need the contempt charge again to save face and keep the case from getting dismissed on the baseless charges. Only problem, I was never in the courtroom and the judge doesn’t have jurisdiction to file contempt charges (yet somehow he can control cameras in the lobby). So what did they come up with? Well, it looks like they are inventing a charge called “common law criminal contempt.” What is it? That’s a good question. My legal team hasn’t found anything about it, and they have yet to explain themselves or levy the charge. I guess they need more time, creating new charges to file a week after arrest must be a tricky process.
My understanding of common law, at least in Texas, is that it’s based on case law. If no case law exists then the judge can simply make it up by doing whatever he wants. So perhaps they have found some obscure case they are hoping to use, or perhaps they are colluding with the judge to invent a charge and have judge Burke rule on it, thereby creating new law. Where’s the victim? Their actions are truly a disgrace to everyone that believes in this so called “justice” system. How far are these people willing to go to assert their authority, rather than admit their mistake and learn their lesson?
Well, apparently even further than that, it is your money they are spending after all. At the end of Burke’s “order” he asks Ivy, my council, to certify that I’m competent to stand trial. In Russia and Nazi Germany political dissidents would be declared by the court to be incompetent to stand trial, declared mentally insane, and locked away in mental institutions so they wouldn’t ever get to trial. Would they be so brazen with me, or are they simply trying some other despicable legal maneuver to railroad me through their system?
Either way, does it really matter? Is this the kind of behavior you want to keep paying for?
In sanity and silence,
SamIAm
PS: Still no response on the radio request, and no response from Van Wickler on blog inaccuracies.
Freedom of press and Miranda rights violated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJcYZ...e=channel_page
If you were a member of the press would you be outraged if you were thrown in a jail cell for exercising you right of press? Unfortunately in Keen, New Hampshire this has happened to a member of the press named Sam Dodson. Sam was at the court to get a copy of the sign on the wall restricting cameras in the lobby. Lance the court security person had previously claimed it’s an order. Only problem, orders are signed by an issuing judge. This order and had no signature, does not have the court seal anywhere on it and has not even been filed with the clerk. Essentially the order does not exist. Sam brought his video camera into the public court lobby and was recording before a trial and was arrested soon after recording began. The only thing they could charge Sam with at the time was disorderly conduct. Regardless of if you are part of the press you should be disgusted by the fact that our rights are being stomped on! I hope you have the time to read about it, here is a link to Sam's blog that explains what happened: http://freekeene.com/author/samiam/page/2/ he writes letters from his jail cell and mails them to a member of http://freekeene.com/ to post on his blogs. This may seem like a small case but if it happened to Sam it could happen to any other member of the press and no matter how small one person’s right is just as important as one million people's rights.
A group of people in New Hampshire are taking a non-violent stand against big government, they have started what they call the Free State Project and since 2003, 704 people have moved to New Hampshire where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.
Update 5/18
The local news paper finally talked this some depth about Sam's story, which the AP took and hasn't done anything with. Also, a fox T.V. station in Vermont acknowledged Sam was jailed illegally and reported it. There was also a reporter from the Boston Globe that came to Keen, New Hampshire but has not published anything.
Sam is charged with resisting arrest, disorderly conduct, having property without a serial number and failure to process. Sam was charged with failure to process because he is using his right to remain silent and refusing to give his name. Since he won't be processed the court said that they are going to hold him indefinitely. The Keen police already know everything about him because of his fingerprints but refuse to move the case until he tells the courts his name. After 5 weeks of being imprisoned he filed a demurrer against the court for 3 of those charges. What the demurrer stated was that in the first charge of resisting arrest, is unlawful because when Sam was arrested he went limp. If you have watched any of the news stations you surley saw at least one member of the Catholic church arrested for trespassing on the Notre Dame campus and have to be carried away because he went limp. During the civil rights movement people went limp and were not charged with resisting arrest. The second charge against Sam is having property without a serial number. They could not find a serial number on Sam's video camera. The court sent his camera to a camera shop, the camera shop then found the serial number and sent the camera back. The reason the courts haven't dropped the charge is because they just haven't gotten around to it yet. It has been 3 weeks since the camera’s serial number was found.
His third charge of disorderly conduct is unlawful because according to New Hampshire law stats that it is unlawful for On-Duty police officers to allege disorderly conduct. All they can tell you is to leave. Sam was not told to leave he was told to stop recording. It is illegal for the police to stop audio or video recording in a public place because that is a violation of the First Amendment.
Since April 15th Sam has requested a speedy trial, a probable cause hearing, waived his arraignment and entered a plea. In total 4 pages of arguments and case law to support and back up his claims.
The courts response: They send in the county attorney and declare the complaints are not sufficient and that all the complaints are essentially the same thing and they don't have to read them. So they have to spend a lot of money to have the county attorney read these legal documents that Sam is filing, on top of the $80 per day it costs the county the keep Sam locked up.
Also Sam has filed pleas of habeas corpus to the superior court of New Hampshire. Habeas corpus is a legal action through which a person can seek relief from unlawful detention. The first writ was denied because it was not written properly; the second one was denied because Sam had yet to process. Remember Sam is being held indefinitely because he was exercising his right to remain silent and refusing to give the courts his name although the court already know all prevalent information needed to charge Sam. Stop and think about how absurd this is.
Now since the Keen courts have realized that Sam is being falsely held they made up a charge for him, Common law criminal contempt. Criminal contempt can only be charged by a judge in a court room. Sam was not in a court room, only in a public lobby. So that begs the question, if the judge can extend his powers outside the court room exactly where does his power stop? On top of that the court is asked Sam’s lawyer if he is competent to stand trial. In Nazi Germany and in Russia the governments would declare defendants’ incompetent to stand trial and send them to insane asylums without trial.
It is truly sad that in the freest country in the world we have public servants running a monopoly that resorts to using desperate tactics to force their will on this free man. If you have hope for this country please make a stand, copy this story to any message boards or blog you have, tell your friends, family or co-workers. You can also contact your local newspaper, T.V. or radio station.
www.freetalklive.com
www.freekeen.com
www.freestateproject.org
(http://forum.pafoa.org/avatars/dynamitejack.gif?type=sigpic&dateline=1242086521)
Hello free staters! This is SamIam and the jail has just thrown me out. The forced me to agree to PR terms that I’m already in violation of, I told them I did not understand. That I did not agree to them. I did not sign them. I requested my attorney who’s going to be here in 10 minutes. And they pushed me out the door, in the orange close. I guess I get to keep them. And gave me all my stuff. I was escorted out. They would not explain anything or put anything in writing. They were told just to release me and so I’m out of jail. Thank you guys for everybody who’s helped me, sent letters, cards, emails, done all the things you had to do to support me along the way and I’m looking forward to getting back to life and challanging a lot of this in court. Thank you, glad to be out, looking forward to talking all soon. Goodbye.