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Author Topic: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009  (Read 69069 times)

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Low-Eight

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2009, 10:25:06 PM »

The audio of the actual incident is extremely clear.  I guess Sam doesn't like living in your "because I say so" world and demands, you know, reasons for things and rule enforcers to follow, you know, rules.
Where is the audio?


They played it at the end of the show
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Alex Libman

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2009, 10:39:30 PM »

Wait, isnt "Free State" supposed to be an oxymoron anyway?

That's a matter of word definition.  If you mean "free" in a relative sense and "state" as a geographic area corresponding to the current sub-national entity within in the USA, then it makes perfect sense - you have to work within the context of the current system in order to improve it.  If you mean "free" in an absolute sense, or "state" as a system of government then yes, it's as oxymoronic as it gets.


[...] I guess Sam doesn't like living in your "because I say so" world and demands, you know, reasons for things and rule enforcers to follow, you know, rules.

As I just explained on another thread, it's not the bluntness of the rules that's the problem, it's the origin of the authority.  Sometimes a parent or a property owner doesn't owe anyone an explanation on the basis of her legitimate authority.  And a group of thugs calling itself "government" and imposing itself on others through violence is never legitimate, however - no matter how popular its explanations might be.
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Rillion

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2009, 11:29:24 PM »

Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.

I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience. 
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JWI

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2009, 11:35:10 PM »

Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.

I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience. 

Something about signs right?
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anarchir

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2009, 11:41:53 PM »

Somewhat:
[youtube=425,350]Z1Q7cP3ij5g[/youtube]
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anarchir

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2009, 11:42:57 PM »

But thats more of a socialist song, not an-cap.
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voodoo

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« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2009, 02:28:11 AM »

So, I'm watching all these videos from the Keene District Airport, Court, and Tire Care Center and I'm thinking to myself, "self, there's a complete lack of kazoo band in these videos."  Actually, I was disappointed in the lack of little people disgorging themselves from a Ford Festiva, but I realize not every town has that kind of thing on every corner.  However, the kazoo deficit is disappointing; I've seen kazoos in Keene, why aren't they providing the soundtrack for videos emanating from this building?
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AntonLee

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2009, 05:23:25 AM »

follow every dictate and you won't get arrested.

how foolish and cowardly.
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Njal

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2009, 05:37:48 AM »

I think CD can be a very good thing. Heck, I plan on doing a healthy amount myself when I get to NH. I am even cool with the whole poking the bear thing. What is retarded is SCREAMING like a baby. This shows you are an attention whore (like everyone else) that isn't clever enough to get attention in a positive way. That does more harm than good, all that hollerin'
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Alex Libman

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2009, 07:05:40 AM »

The value of screaming or not screaming is subjective.

Want to do things your way?  Do them yourself.  I will.

And it will take twelve pigs to carry me!  :lol:
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Lindsey

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2009, 08:20:44 AM »

Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.

I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience. 

Incorrect.  I see the point.  I also think civil disobedience is counter-productive. 
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Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
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slave_3646

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2009, 08:48:45 AM »

Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.

I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience. 

Incorrect.  I see the point.  I also think civil disobedience is counter-productive. 

Why do you believe CD to be counter-productive? What method(s) would you use instead to get the point across to a broader audience?
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Lindsey

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2009, 09:03:02 AM »

Don't do things people ask you not to do - full well knowing you're provoking a proverbial beast, and then fucking bitch when you get what you want out of the beast.

I think you've missed the full point of civil disobedience. 

Incorrect.  I see the point.  I also think civil disobedience is counter-productive. 

Why do you believe CD to be counter-productive? What method(s) would you use instead to get the point across to a broader audience?

This has been discussed multiple times here and on a lot of other message boards.  I don't believe that someone garnering negative attention by being thrown into county lockup, and then using up local taxpayer dollars to rot in county lockup for x amount of days is productive.  Yeah, it gets attention - but the majority of people see it as stupid.  Especially though who don't have "libertarian" ideals to begin with.  There are a lot of reasons, but most importantly - instead of rotting in jail today, I'm going to work.  So I don't want to have an argument, debate, discussion, or clusterfuck about this subject AGAIN. 
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Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
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NHArticleTen

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2009, 09:11:41 AM »


follow every dictate and you won't get arrested.

how foolish and cowardly.



NHAT - New Hampshire Article Ten...The whole enchalada...The alpha and omega...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Constitution

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Article 10. Right of Revolution

New Hampshire is the only state besides Kentucky which provides for a "Right of Revolution" in its state constitution. The Right of Revolution is a right dating back to the Revolutionary War, and is held in high regard in New Hampshire by members of the libertarian Free State Project. Part I., Article 10 reads:
   Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.


where's the interwebs nazis when you need them...lol...


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blackie

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Re: Group of activists arrested, Keene District Court April 13, 2009
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2009, 09:37:07 AM »

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=17822.msg294249#msg294249

Kat Kanning said:
Quote
Here's what I remember.  Sam came into the courthouse ready to videotape.  A group of us went upstairs.  Sam began taping.  Court officers told him to stop and showed him the note stuck on the wall saying not to tape.  Sam said the note on the wall didn't appear to be an order signed by anyone, so he was under no obligation to follow notes stuck to the wall.  The two police prosecutors come out and start to arrest Sam.  Rivera grabbed the camera from Sam.  BTW, they didn't appear ready for a riot, like they did the day Ridley planned his camera civ. disobedience - there were just the normal amount of cops there...there were tons the day Ridley planned his event.  When they started to arrest Sam, he fell to the ground.  They dragged him into the next room.  We could hear him screaming in pain, "Ow that hurts!" At one point the door was opened and I saw the thugs lifting Sam, who was on his stomach on the floor with handcuffs behind his back.  Kurt called them thugs and the older court security officer went off on him, saying 'who you calling a thug' and acting like he was about to knock Kurt on his butt and generally behaving very thuglike.  Kurt argued with him a little.  More screaming from the backroom and then Kurt's demanding to see what they're doing to his friend.  Lance the court security guy lets Kurt into the back hallway and Kurt sees Sam back there, but Rivera slams the door shut so that Kurt can't see anymore.  They start herding people into the courtroom for Ridley's arraignment.  Some of us headed outside to be there when they took Sam out.  Lauren and Jim and I stood at the back door where they usually haul people out of the building.  Maybe this made them decide to take everyone (except Tim) out the front door?  We heard that they were bringing Sam out the front so went out there.  They were still dragging him with his hands cuffed behind the back, with him screaming in pain.  People on the street were asking what was going on, so told them Sam had been videotaping.  People on the street expressed disapproval with people being hurt for videotaping.  Sam's dragged into the police car with much difficulty and pain and put face down on the floor, but later hauled into a sitting position.  Sam finally told me he was OK when I was asking.  Lauren tells cops repeatedly that they should be ashamed of themselves.  Other police cars start arriving like mad.  There were all the Keene police, some county and state police.  Sam is driven away.  In a few minutes, Kurt is brought out in handcuffs, walking.  Cops are again told by Lauren they should be ashamed.  People on the street are really concerned about what's going on.  David's brought out, walking.  Then they dragged Patrick.  I have to say it was really heartwrenching the way they were manhandling the always-smiling Patrick.  He was also crammed into the back seat of the cop car with much difficulty and pain.  TomSawyer was admonishing them for using an unneccessarily painful way to handle these guys - amounting to torture.    I don't think anyone saw Tim being brought out the back.  I'm guessing he was walking.  SamARobrin and Coconut told us what had happened upstairs - all the freestaters were told to leave.  Those who didn't would be arrested when backup arrived.  Backup arrived and blocked off the room, so no one could leave.  SamARobrin and Coconut gave their info and were released with summonses.  4 guys didn't give their info and were arrested, as we saw below.  The Keene Sentinel reporter and others there were not given summonses.  Back outside people talked to the Sentinel reporter for a while.  I went upstairs with Lauren and Jim to see if the courtroom lobby was still blocked off.  They let us come in but wanted to make sure we had business there.  I overheard one of the ladies who works in the court talking to the police prosecuter (not Rivera):  she said he'd have to take the Keene Sentinel reporter out to dinner that night because she was doing a story on him and he was a hero now.  Back outside, Jim asked the Keene Sentinel reporter if she was going out with the Keene police since she was going a story on them, but she said no.   We all headed to the police station.  David and Patrick were coming out the back when Ian, Dale and I arrived.  Both David and Patrick expressed how what was going on in that courtroom lobby was just so absurd that they felt they couldn't comply with what was going on - but they had not gone there with the intention of being arrested.  I'm sure that was true of all 4 who were arrested after Sam.  Sam had apparently been planning to push the recording issue.  Patrick told how he'd overheard cops complaining about the police prosecutor going too far - that they'd been called and told a violent riot was going on, but in reality it was a couple of guys standing around.  Kurt and Tim were also released.  We waited around to hear what had happened to Sam and were eventually told he was taken to the jail.  We stopped to eat some lunch then headed out to the jail.  Dale and I met up with Jeremy, Rich and Jennifer who had driven out from Manchester.  A couple of us went to the door and asked about Sam, but were told that no one by that name was in the jail.  Sam isn't giving his name, which is why he was held, so it'll be hard to ask about him and get any info, or send him letters.  One guard who was outside having a smoke said there was a guy brought in who woudn't give his name.  We hung out in the demonstration garden for a while and then back outside the jail.  Two state police and one county guy showed up.  They were called apparently because of Rich open carrying.  The first one who showed up and did most of the questioning had been at the courthouse arrests earlier.  It was all pretty laid back though.  He asked if anyone else was carrying and Jeremy said yes, but refused to show ID or his concealed carry license.  The guys explained they weren't required by law to do anything but tell them name and city where they live and the guy seemed to accept this info.  He went inside to talk to the jail guards.  The other statie just stood outside chatting with us.  The county guy never said a word.  First guy came back out and said Sam was in there and would probably have video arraignment in the morning.  I'm guessing the court would like to be spared another freestater visit.  Cops all left.  Rest of the freestater crowd arrived with signs, so we protested outside the jail for a while, with prisoners banging on windows and waving from inside.  We were unmolested while protesting, unlike the first time we tried it there.  Then everyone left for the Keene City Hall meeting, but I went home.
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